The Bud Toaster - (currently: Model 14, version 3)

[Hippie Dickie]

Probably ... i should try that to determine if there is a minimum amps required. Theoretically the coil is drawing 12 amps at full power. But it is probably only using a 20% duty cycle after initial heat up.

And, yeah, i really like the lights on the top deck. But must be dimmer.

 

[andrewburgess]

I had an idea for your inside glass heater for this or future models, is it okay I email it to you?

I'd like to see it too.

 

[stinkmeaner]

I had an idea for your inside glass heater for this or future models, is it okay I email it to you?

I'd like to see it too.

See what?

 

[andrewburgess]

I had an idea for your inside glass heater for this or future models, is it okay I email it to you?

I'd like to see it too.

See what?

your idea for the glass heater

 

[stinkmeaner]

I'd like to see it too.

See what?

your idea for the glass heater

It isn't anything you can make at home unless you are a glass blower, I will share it once I get one made from a glass blower.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

the Cube ... it's growing on me ...

So i swapped the 220 ohm resistors for 1k ohm resistors. Definitely better, but still a bit too bright:

i have a bunch of 2k resistors ... i think i'll give that a try, too.

i had the PC disassembled since yesterday until just after quiting time today, when i did the resistor swap. Since then i've had the opportunity to use the PC for 3 sessions. i'm really liking the operation. The sides of the cube stay significantly cooler than the cylinder. That 1/8" air gap between the heat shield and the wood is very effective. However, the top face of the PC is getting wicked hot -- but i think the top of the heater coil is contacting the inside of the top -- just need to snip a little off the coil lead so i can push it down lower.

It could be my imagination, but from these first sessions, i swear the Cube hits a little harder than the Cylinder (thicker vapor for more tokes) -- perhaps due to the smaller gap between the oven tube and the bud vial; or maybe better heat reflection from the heat shield back into the bud vial.

i think more testing is required.

 

[stinkmeaner]

That's funny, I was also wondering if this design was going to hit a little harder. I thought the addition of the heat shield, the wood enclosure, and the airspace between would create a really great method of natural insulation. This is good engineering if you think about it, your design has only about an Inch of space between you and a 450 deg F oven tube and it still stays cool enough to touch without the need for any commercial insulation. I know it is not the first vape to use no insulation, the log vapes use none but they are snug inside solid wood which acts as insulation but we have seen the result of that, they might benefit from some sort of heat shield, even my Volcano still gets a little warm to the touch and they use a thick insulation wrap around the heat exchanger and the heater is further away from the enclosure walls in most places.

I can see another reason you wouldn't want a heat-sink, it might cause the need for insulation or if the heat was dense enough, even design change to a larger enclosure. The thicker glass would also dull the reaction and recovery time of your heating system.

Can you take another "vapor in the tube" picture when have a chance? Like the one you did of the old models.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

Here you go stinkm ...

Fire in the hole (pre-toke, clear stem) ...

... and after a 20 second toke (not clearing the stem) ...

... and that's pretty much what it looks like when i exhale.

 

[VWFringe]

what would happen if you fitted a steel ring to the inside top, could it protect the top from heat exposure? or how do you feel about a different material around the top?
-------------
on the better hits...
my bet's with the tighter tolerences more than the shield, my shield's have absorbed better than reflected, but i did not have ur current, hehe
--------------

hey - thought of you when i saw this tiny piece of $159 aerogel today on Youtube ...
you tipped me off to this stuff's existence, but i didnt know its so pricy till now

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHJJeTx5Tkw

edit: wow, didn't know water "destroys" aerogel? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDRnx-ZlVDs&feature=related
what about the other stuff made out of seaweed (agar agar)?

 

[DeepFried]

i think more testing is required.

LOL!, yeah testing is the best part

 

[Hippie Dickie]

what would happen if you fitted a steel ring to the inside top, could it protect the top from heat exposure? or how do you feel about a different material around the top?

less is more ... i.e. better. Any material that is exposed to the heat absorbs it. That's why the air gap is the most effective heat shield i have ever used. And, i finally found a source for some very thin gauge stainless steel (hobby website) ... so insteat of 0.025" ss, i am going to try/use 0.012" stainless. i just have to work out some mounting choices -- and get rid of those small, 4-40 tapped clips.

i've thought about using a teflon collar around the heater tube to isolate it physically from the wood ... i may try that if i can get the right dremel grinding bit.

i just am enjoying the cube so much i hesitate to disable it for modifications ... i think i'll just make another PC and incorporate all the changes i've come up with from doing this first one.

that ensures continuous testing can proceed on schedule ...

 

[stinkmeaner]

I thought about a top seal to or even a gong fitting connection for where the Vapor Tube meets Heating Tube but then I realized that would just stop your freedom of movement. The only thing that might work is one of those Spherical Ground Glass Joints but it wont really offer you much more than you have now except looks.

Would a High Temp Silicone work between the wood & heating tube?

Or even the Red Liquid Silicone Sealant, I know they used that on the outside of the Super Vapezilla heating chamber and it didn't burn up, with the Sealant you might be able just to spread a thin layer on the tube so it doesn't directly touch the wood.

P.S. Right on Hippie, that looks like some nice thick vapor in that tube. Thanks for the pics.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

i'm not a fan of silicone ... and, really, it is not necessary. although i have thought about a few mica strips to space the top of the oven tube from the wood (which is only 1/8" thick where they meet).

i'm opposed to a gong joint ... there is no vapor leakage, and the Perfect Cube is so small, the GonG would make the unit top heavy. i have accidently knocked my vapes over when glass sticks out the top ... my belief is that the glass must fall away, rather than be stressed by hitting the table top when the vape tips over. Speaking from experience, shattered glass is no fun ... a total buzz kill.

 

[VWFringe]

if we apply anime logic from the world of Naruto Shippuden, he can make clones of himself, and when they eventually fail their gained knowledge is transferred back to him, so you could create new rev.'s as you think of things, but since you'll need to provide a suitable, "continuous testing," environment to match your original, you'll just have to send them out to us.... We promise to take good notes!

...i can tell by your responses you're not worried about the top failing - cool...or, i'm very glad about that.
tho, i was having fun imagining an intricately carved jade, soap stone or meershaum top (1/4" thick)

 

[Hippie Dickie]

i was having fun imagining an intricately carved jade, soap stone or meershaum top (1/4" thick)

sounds very cool .... exercise left to the reader, eh? (you'd need a laser to be able to hit production quantities)

i trimmed the coil and dropped it about 1/16" below the wood top (no contact) and it is infinitely cooler on top now.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

Next step ...

Fabricating small batches of units is always a struggle ... i ran out of the 2"x2" cherry i got about 5 years ago, and my wood guru only had some Amazonian mahogany. i thought, when he first mentioned it, that it would be (wood be?) too dark -- i have this image of mahogany being very, very dark -- but he brought me some blocks that are quite striking ... and pretty - about the same tone as the cherry i've been using for so long:

The cherry unit is on the left end.

i look forward to working with it ... soon, i hope.

 

[stinkmeaner]

That is some nice looking mahogany if I do say so myself, I also thought it had that dark red-brown color and reminds me of antique shops, mothballs, and doilies.

Hippie, I had a question about the thermometers you have used in the past. I was wondering if you have taken them apart down to the PCB, do you think it is possible for me to take one apart and mount them in a way so only the LCD & Buttons are visible?

Also do you know of any place to buy small pre-made digital thermostat PCB for hobbies?

I have come across a few but they are always large or have a set temperature scale which corresponds to a home thermostat.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

do you think it is possible for me to take one apart and mount them in a way so only the LCD & Buttons are visible?

i have taken one apart -- only 2 screws hold the pcb to the case. i think it would be a pita to do well.

Also do you know of any place to buy small pre-made digital thermostat PCB for hobbies?

Alas, no. my inability to find a suitable OEM module is what led me to working with a Chinese factory.

When you do a search, include "BBQ" to get units with a high enough range.

 

[fixitman]

First let me say Hippie Dickie you are my Hero. I found this site round about six weeks ago and this is the first thread i read from start to finish. i am anxiously awaiting the opportunity to have a bud toaster of my own! you seem to be on the right track!

my wood guru only had some Amazonian mahogany.

i look forward to working with it ... soon, i hope.

i REALLY like the look of mahogany. i have built a few projects using it. i find that i am much more sensitive to mahogany dust than other species. i would recommend a dust mask (along w/your safety glasses) when machining mahogany at least until you see how you feel.

thanks for letting us all live the dream vicariously through you Hippie!

 

[Hippie Dickie]

aw, shucks. Thanks, fixitman, it's nice to know you appreciate the thread.

Observations and serendipity ...

i know I'm acting like a 3 year old with a new favorite toy, but damn i'm carrying my Perfect Cube around with me, i love it so

Anyway, i'm seeing 1F degree stability during most of the 7 minute vape session. Then, at the end (last 60 seconds), the temperature gradually drifts up 2F. i've noticed this for the last 3 or 4 sessions.

So, what's happening?

i think the free floating heat shield around the coil is damping environmental cooling. Plus all the heat generated by the coil is focused back into the bud vial. So the heater coil is even more asymmetric in operation -- cools at about 0.5F per second (no power applied) versus the 1.5F to 2.0F power-off cooling in the cylinder form -- but can still increase temperature at 12F/second (software limit).

So i'm thinking that by the end of the session most of the trichomes have been melted, opened, and emptied of THC juice. So the natural cooling of the heat of vaporization of the cannabinoids is no longer available, and the temp drifts up.

Basically, i'm ecstatic about the improved temperature stability -- it is very clear to me that a stable temperature is the most important factor of an effective vaporizer (well, plus an all glass air path and battery power convenience, and small size) -- because I still have some rather ad hoc coefficients in the PID algorithm. It can do much better.

Now for the serendipity -- i have always assumed (!) that a round bottom bud "bowl" would work just the same, or even better, than the flat bottom vial. From an initial test: Not So!. i finally broke out the new diamond drill bits to try popping some holes in the bottom of the 12mm x 36mm, round bottom culture tubes i got recently from India. There was virtually NO vapor produced. WTF?

my current theory: the 1/8" space between the bottom of the flat bottom vial and the bottom of the oven tube, provides a reservoir of hot air -- at vaporization temperature (385F -- by measurement reported in earlier post) -- that is actually used to vaporize the trichomes.

So (i.e. the serendipity part) -- if i hadn't gotten some flat bottom vials in that very first order for glassware about 9 years ago, this vape would have never worked and i would have (probably) abandoned the whole design concept. Whew! Dodged that bullet.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

Perfect Cube - unit 2 ...

i have made a little progress on the new unit, which will be made using the mahogany. i have this mental dread of soldering the pcb -- mainly due to the incredibly tiny size of the resistors ... but this time was pretty much a snap (so far). Fully populated except for the MOSFET and the probe and the coil:

side 1:

side2:

Actually, i've had this done for several days - then my day job got busy so it has just been sitting on my desk - taunting me while i slave away. It's been okay, because i needed to push back a bit and figure out how to connect the male Deans plug to the pcb.

See, several days ago i discovered that one of the wires connected to a battery plug was frayed and almost severed - high current just seems to melt this stranded wire i've been using. And what that tells me is that having a stranded cable connecting power to the pcb is just a failure mode waiting to happen. So i've finally got that worked out (in my head) and it should be easier to implement than the cable currently on unit #1 and will be infinitely reliable. If this works out i'll definitely retrofit unit 1.

And i'm seeing a random aberrant behavior in the code i've got to track down and fix.

Maybe this weekend. If the damn phone stops ringing for a little while.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

fucking phone ... at least i get a 50 minute break every hour, still the incessant interrumptions are a pain in the rump and distract me from my (real) mission.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

Perfect Cube, Unit 2 ...

a little progress today with getting the body hollowed out:

still have to route the bottom cover disc and put it all together.

 

[momatik]

I'm not very well versed on the technical details of the cube but I must say aesthetically it's very appealing. It's really awesome how the design is so small and minimal.

 

[zenmasterofzinfandel]

I'm not very well versed on the technical details of the cube but I must say aesthetically it's very appealing. It's really awesome how the design is so small and minimal.

Actually vaping unit is fairly small, but the pix here and in many parts of the thread don't show the base unit 'tethered' to the vap. That which is where the large battery power pack is located.