Sapphire and Ruby inserts for bangers

invertedisdead

Defenders Of Glass
That concept sounds flawed considering there is nothing trapping or sealing that air in. If it was hermetically sealed it would work as an insulation barrier.
Likewise since it's not hermetically sealed, air is always present. You would have to displace that space with something else, or in the case of insulated windows as you mentioned, remove air with a vacuum.

For example: we wear sweatshirts for insulation, but they don't require a hermetic seal to function.

Natural convection still takes place, even when insulation is used. A hermetic seal would help, but my main point in the above post really wasn't about the air gap acting as insulation, it was that the sidewalls not directly touching the insert is not really ideal heat transfer. This is one of the reasons why a torched banger at the same floor temperature as an e-nail produces different vapor (additional radiant heat penetration)
Your vape is also a bit different then my example, as it's not being heated from the outside-in like an axial coil, though it is still heating from the bottom which is pretty much what I was saying above. I used to do dabs from a Thermal P (the double walled banger) doing cold starts with a triple jet vapcap torch using only the floor to vape because I didn't have a big enough torch to heat the whole banger. I swear that must have been in 2016/17 before the cold start trend started booming, it was also very quiet this way compared to those big jet engine torches :lol:
 
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510MOD

Manufacturer
@biohacker I finally grabbed some pictures of my Ruby inserts right after cleaning them and wanted to drop them here for you and all else to see. I know we discussed this in the concentrates for noobs thread, but I think this one is the better thread for continuing the discussion. I still feel both are high quality and would buy either again. In all my pictures below the insert on the left is @710Coils and the insert on the right is @GreekGlass.

 

510MOD

Manufacturer
So far so good with my replacement ruby from 710Coils, plus I have a Baio-T ruby and D-nail Sapphire on their way.

How are you cleaning yours?
I make a slurry mix with ISO and baking soda in a small cylindrical container that is about 1.5" Diameter by 1.5" tall so just barely bigger than a banger. I suppose a banger could be used instead if you covered/closed the holes. I drop my insert in the mix and shake it for about 15 or so seconds. I let it sit for about 10 or so minutes while I do something else. Then I shake again for about 30 seconds. After that I swab the insert with a q-tip putting extra attention on the crevice at the floor and walls. Finally I rinse the insert clean and dry with a paper towel.
 

biohacker

Well-Known Member
After that I swab the insert with a q-tip putting extra attention on the crevice at the floor and walls.
Thanks for that dude, and this is the area that drives me crazy! lol

Do you find that the slurry works better than Dark Crystal? I've been having poor results with the baking soda paste/iso... but i'm also not soaking for very long.

And with your shaking tech, aren't you worried about breaking the insert?
 
biohacker,

510MOD

Manufacturer
I have never tried Dark Crystal but this method I use gets it spotless and there is no scrubbing really. The slurry seems to soak up into any reclaim or blackened spots and wipes right off. The ISO I use is from Costco so nothing special there. The soaking does not seem to make a huge difference for me really. I have skipped the 10 minute soak plenty of times with no problems.

I don't worry about the shaking causing the insert to break because it's not under heat and should be fine for what I am doing. It is not like I am throwing it or anything, it's movement is rather limited since I am using a cylindrical container. I have been using this method for over a year now without issue. As you can probably see in the pictures, those inserts look as good as the day I bought them.
 

biohacker

Well-Known Member
The slurry seems to soak up into any reclaim or blackened spots and wipes right off. The ISO I use is from Costco so nothing special there. The soaking does not seem to make a huge difference for me really. I have skipped the 10 minute soak plenty of times with no problems.
I'm using costco 99% iso and baking soda, I wonder why i'm not having any luck? What is your ratio? How thick is the slurry? Maybe my reclaim is caked on my inserts more lol
 
biohacker,
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510MOD

Manufacturer
I do make a thick slurry...paste like. I clean my insert every 4-6 weeks typically. All my wax is shatter or crumble and is very clean. No rosin. My insert does not get too dirty usually. As soon as I start to see build up I start mentally preparing myself to plan to clean everything and usually within a week I am doing it.
 

510MOD

Manufacturer
@510MOD do you still not recommend using the ruby insert with your portable setup?
That is correct. I have thoroughly tested the TC on the DTv4 with my settings and various inserts including clear quartz, opaque bottom quartz, thin ceramic from puffco, ruby and sic. They all hold their temp well and I have never seen any extreme changes in temp or even spikes, but I believe the stress from heating so quickly and frequently was what led to the demise of my ruby insert. My temps are never above 550F in all my testing so its got to be about the rate of speed they change their temp.

I am not saying it cannot be done, but I would advise against it unless your willing to make a possible sacrifice. I am only 1 story and I do believe people use Ruby on their Peaks and similar devices. Perhaps I just had a bad experience. As a manufacturer though, I cannot suggest the use of any products I don't feel certain about. Suggesting something that may break during use would be bad practic so I am saying Ruby is not idea for a portable setup until I find out otherwise.
 
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510MOD

Manufacturer
Fair enough, respect for your honesty. Do you stock SiC inserts by chance?
I have a few cups coming in that are fitted for the Sequioa but probably can be used on the DTv4. They are smaller than I would like to stock for a SiC insert at just under 14mm dia and just above 7mm height. They are .08mm thick.

I would like to have an insert for both 19mm OD x 20mm and 24mm x 20mm and may have them in my arsenal in the distant future. At least 3 months or more.
 

510MOD

Manufacturer
Sweet, in the meantime, I think D-nail's look quit affordable, although 24mmX19mm.
Those do look nice and the price is pretty decent IMO. I have gone back and forth on size. I don't know for sure what my final specs will be or if I will even get them made. I have started discussions only because I do get asked often.
 

biohacker

Well-Known Member
"Sapphire and ruby are both corundum (aluminum oxide) and are nearly chemically identical. Ruby, however contains 1%< chromium which what makes ruby red. Chromium in the ruby creates a thermo-chromic effect (color change when heat is applied) from red to black. Heat from the ruby transfers slightly different than the sapphire allowing for improved vaporization." -adapt tech

Anyone else have a sapphire AND ruby that can share their experience? In might just be in my head, or these extracts, but it's confirming what I already thought over 2 years ago when I first tried sapphire and ruby inserts, and that is that sapphire tastes better, and is slightly smoother, but also leaves the the slightest bit of puddle vs the ruby vaporizing it all. I dunno, maybe I just took too big of a dab! :ko:

I guess i'll have to test some more! :smug::rockon:

Dab on gentlemen! You too @Morty ! :cool::lol::wave::peace:
 

JCat

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
"Sapphire and ruby are both corundum (aluminum oxide) and are nearly chemically identical. Ruby, however contains 1%< chromium which what makes ruby red. Chromium in the ruby creates a thermo-chromic effect (color change when heat is applied) from red to black. Heat from the ruby transfers slightly different than the sapphire allowing for improved vaporization." -adapt tech

Anyone else have a sapphire AND ruby that can share their experience? In might just be in my head, or these extracts, but it's confirming what I already thought over 2 years ago when I first tried sapphire and ruby inserts, and that is that sapphire tastes better, and is slightly smoother, but also leaves the the slightest bit of puddle vs the ruby vaporizing it all. I dunno, maybe I just took too big of a dab! :ko:

I guess i'll have to test some more! :smug::rockon:

Dab on gentlemen! You too @Morty ! :cool::lol::wave::peace:
I found my GG ruby to be better than my GG sapphire. (that's why I sold my GG sapphire a while back). I think it comes down to the ruby actually being 19mm in diameter whereas the sapphire was closer to 18.5mm.
 

biohacker

Well-Known Member
I found my GG ruby to be better than my GG sapphire. (that's why I sold my GG sapphire a while back). I think it comes down to the ruby actually being 19mm in diameter whereas the sapphire was closer to 18.5mm.
Your Greek Glass sapphire and ruby were different sizes? I preferred my GG sapphire over the GG ruby for the same reasons I prefer it now, but they were both 19mm.
 

JCat

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
Your Greek Glass sapphire and ruby were different sizes? I preferred my GG sapphire over the GG ruby for the same reasons I prefer it now, but they were both 19mm.
Yep. The one you sold me was closer to 18.5mm then 19mm ... I noticed it didn’t perform quite as well and seemed to wiggle around more so I measured it with callipers.

I assume the size difference was the reason for the performance difference.
 
JCat,
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biohacker

Well-Known Member
Yep. The one you sold me was closer to 18.5mm then 19mm ... I noticed it didn’t perform quite as well and seemed to wiggle around more so I measured it with callipers.

I assume the size difference was the reason for the performance difference.
Wow! That's interesting because I bought two 19mm rubies and two 19mm white sapphires from Greek and they all appeared identical to me, but I guess .5mm isn't something i'd be able to eyeball lol. I did buy 2.5mm walled "HQ bangers" from Greek and couldn't get an 19mm to fit any of them, probably for the same reason. Interesting that such a SMALL difference in OD would make an actual noticeable difference.

Guess I won't even consider Greek's 18mm sapphire then, especially considering the size specs (only 14mm tall?)

Looking at the 710Gems 19mm white sapphire that is Facetted for $150! Wish more companies would actual state the weight/ct of an insert like Adapt tech! It's so important!
 
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