Sapphire and Ruby inserts for bangers

muunch

hotboxing the cockpit
. Im gonna put it through some "average dabber" lack of cleanliness, care in terms of all the steps to keep it clean after each dab and not spend 5-10 qtips getting new material off each time, and if it starts to show signs of degradation, shit.
Yeah - I've directly torched mine once or twice to clean it. Not sure of how hot it got exactly. I think it'd require >1000c (plus water), according to Fadespace, to actually damage it.

I use 1 swab to clean it each time. Half the swab to mop up the excess and then the other side to get any excess in corner or walls. I guess it's just a basic clean and heat cleaning is the real clean.

I don't wanna sell my SiC (still wanna do AlN/SiC/sapphire comparison) but man it's just not even close to performance on AlN - my buddy agrees (this is the same buddy who had a verbal and personal disagreement with Fadespace btw - @dankhill710 on IG)

I would gladly buy (and probably) will get another AlN (either 25mm size or the different finish when released for Peak)
 
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Azn2101

Well-Known Member
So I thought I'd res the thread with a few updates & questions. But TL;DR looking for advice on a Ruby insert and questions regarding pearls and their alternatives like pill rollers & Semi-Spheres.

Firstly I've become stuck to the (Greek glass I think?) 19mm OD Sapphire insert for daily use. When dialed in and with a few 3mm ruby pearls it has a much more consistent flavor than the AlN after it's 3rd good use, or like 5 mini dabs before flavor is slightly affected and gives off what I now know to be a very close resemblance to a ceramic-y taste, but as long as you deep clean it before it starts to look dark from the outside it isn't strong, it's just there. With globs or normal sized dabs it might be even more subdued but to be honest it just a theory since i don't think I've ever really done a true "glob" but anyway it's good for the special occasion imo so back in the drawer.

I would like to get a ruby insert for a 25mm setup that's of good quality without having to pay an arm to sacrifice for preformance or quality and I haven't the slightest to look other than Adepttech or Shane which is what I'm leaning towards anyway but would like to know what some opinions are inbetween or if Shane's Ruby inserts are just hands down the best I'm gonna get without spending Adpettech pricing?

When reading through this thread I couldn't really tell where the general consensus landed on what comes to make a "bad" ruby insert and what to stay away from.

In preparation for the Ruby insert I was wondering what Ruby's average emissivity is dial it my IR Reader in for it or if that's something that would change from insert to insert or like from Batch to Batch and would require a K-style Thermocouple But any help with that would be awesome too.

I'm also wondering if it's ok to use ruby/sapphire or even SiC pearls in a Sapphire/Ruby insert and vice versa with SiC inserts with a 3mm ruby. I've been getting a lot of conflicting information from Reddit (I know I know) and watching some other people ask similar questions on IG posts and getting different, and sometimes polar opposite answers to the question/rebuttal of what's ok and not ok to use in an Insert or Banger because of this that or the other. Has anyone tried the alternatives to Terp pearls like those pills rollers or the star from Constant gems or know anyone who has? I have to admit those AT Semi-Spheres were really cool looking but I don't think I could ever convince myself to buy one for those asking prices.

I seriously thought I was going to be a SiC guy (still really like it) my entire life but there's just something about a gemstone dab's flavor that takes me by surprise every time.
 

LesPlenty

Well-Known Member
I was happy with my SiC Halo and quartz banger but someone told me even a poor quality ruby insert would be an upgrade so I purchased a sub 4%0 unit complete with a couple ruby terp balls and must say it smoothes out the vapor a lot compared to my Halo, just not as easy to live with due to not wanting to crack the ruby (dry swab cleaning only). My cheap link,(now $52 with no balls, ask for som if you do order),
https://www.dhgate.com/product/the-ruby-puffco-peak-ruby-insert-bowl-with/461379249.html
 

LesPlenty

Well-Known Member
Are ruby inserts frail when hot for cleaning purposes?
They can crack due to thermal shock so stick with dry swabbing(cleans up better than expected).
That said, I have had a hot ruby terp ball get sucked up and dropped into the bong water with no problem.:tup:
 

ensabbahnur

Hash Vacuum
I have had a hot ruby terp ball get sucked up and dropped into the bong water with no problem.:tup:

Has anyone had a pearl or the like crack or shatter due to thermal shock? I drop pretty big globs of near freezing material on them and inserts all the time with no issues but was contemplating heating one up and dropping it in some ice water just to see what happens
 
ensabbahnur,
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Azn2101

Well-Known Member
I was happy with my SiC Halo and quartz banger but someone told me even a poor quality ruby insert would be an upgrade so I purchased a sub 4%0 unit complete with a couple ruby terp balls and must say it smoothes out the vapor a lot compared to my Halo, just not as easy to live with due to not wanting to crack the ruby (dry swab cleaning only). My cheap link,(now $52 with no balls, ask for som if you do order),
https://www.dhgate.com/product/the-ruby-puffco-peak-ruby-insert-bowl-with/461379249.html
Now this link to these inserts were the ones that were the ones in question a few pages back right?

I'm still working with a Sapphire insert and 2x 3mm pearls since the walls seem a little short for the 6mm's, but only in comparison to the 25mm AlN & SiC inserts and I have no gripes with it but figured if it would make torch tabs from the color change cause I still suck at that but it's also a back up of sorts since it would suck to have my Sapphire break and not have anything for a few weeks if bought from China. By the way are they even shipping right now because of the Coronavirus?

But I appreciate the link man and will keep them in mind.

@ensabbahnur I've actually cracked quite a few of my 3mm Rubypearlco ones when I used to clean them in DC cleaner but it's gotta be their tiny size right?
 
Azn2101,

Azn2101

Well-Known Member
Yep, linked from my orders menu on DHGate.:tup:


It was my 3mm ruby ball (DHGate) that got sucked up an into the bong water.:2c:
Thanks bro I have one on the way but also had the chance to grab another one and was wondering if this was considered the "Polish" for Gemstone inserts and is just noticeable on Ruby and just can't see the markings on sapphire or should it be a clean finish on the bottom of both types?

My Sapphire 25mm Is completely smooth and no visual markings so is this a bad insert or is this how the polish is on Ruby?

Edit: This is after an ISO bath and thorough Qtip wipe down to see if it was just some dust/crud stuck to it during delivery that could be removed.



 

invertedisdead

Defenders Of Glass
Thanks bro I have one on the way but also had the chance to grab another one and was wondering if this was considered the "Polish" for Gemstone inserts and is just noticeable on Ruby and just can't see the markings on sapphire or should it be a clean finish on the bottom of both types?

My Sapphire 25mm Is completely smooth and no visual markings so is this a bad insert or is this how the polish is on Ruby?

Edit: This is after an ISO bath and thorough Qtip wipe down to see if it was just some dust/crud stuck to it during delivery that could be removed.



l

None of mine look like that. I've never ordered any off the 'gate though.
 

invertedisdead

Defenders Of Glass
Thanks man, the one from Gate is still on the way but thanks for the heads up man. Just one final shot to make sure that it's not bad lighting or whatever.

Is it just me or does it look hazy, kinda scratched? Sapphire/Ruby is almost as hard as diamond so it would be kinda hard to scratch it. You might try making a thick paste with baking soda and water (preferably distilled) and see if any of that scrubs off.
 

Azn2101

Well-Known Member
Is it just me or does it look hazy, kinda scratched? Sapphire/Ruby is almost as hard as diamond so it would be kinda hard to scratch it. You might try making a thick paste with baking soda and water (preferably distilled) and see if any of that scrubs off.
I'll give it a try thanks man, Does it matter if the solution is it's too thic or the thicker the better type thing? Will the green pads for dish washing be ok to not scratch the insert?

If so what is a common apparatus for scrubbing Gemstone stuff?

Thanks a ton dude.

Edit: After 2 scrubs one with a fiber cloth, and the second with a "tough" Green pad that feels like a normal green scrubby except if you burnt all the string ends so that they were hardened as extra...srubbing action? Idk but either way this isn't coming off with a consistency of Baking soda/Distilled Water so that you can pick it up like ice and basically looks like it too but here's the end results are still that same circle that goes below the surface slightly and that hazy, almost like micro-bubbles in the Ruby.

 
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Azn2101

Well-Known Member
Lack of polish, luckily mine is shiny, scratch-free so hopefully, the one in transit is better.:tup:
I would try the baking soda or toothpaste or both.
Gotcha man, thanks for letting me know and I really hope DH's comes in looking pristine as a back-up (or maybe even as the primary one)

I edited my last comment but I just did a double take with a piece of Micro fiber cloth & 2nd wash was with a Tough Green pad for cleaning and both did nada but the seller and worked it out but I just wanted to make sure that it wasn't something that could be removed but that same circle and hazy/cloudy surface is still there. It was worth a shot but I was pretty sure it was a dud when my fingernail felt something other than smoothness on the insert floor.

 

invertedisdead

Defenders Of Glass
I'll give it a try thanks man, Does it matter if the solution is it's too thic or the thicker the better type thing? Will the green pads for dish washing be ok to not scratch the insert?

If so what is a common apparatus for scrubbing Gemstone stuff?

Thanks a ton dude.

Edit: After 2 scrubs one with a fiber cloth, and the second with a "tough" Green pad that feels like a normal green scrubby except if you burnt all the string ends so that they were hardened as extra...srubbing action? Idk but either way this isn't coming off with a consistency of Baking soda/Distilled Water so that you can pick it up like ice and basically looks like it too but here's the end results are still that same circle that goes below the surface slightly and that hazy, almost like micro-bubbles in the Ruby.

Maybe that ring is a tool mark from the machining process? I don't know enough about the processing of gems to really say, possibly the haziness is micro cracks as well? Hopefully the other one you have coming is pristine, nothing wrong with having a "beater" insert, I got a cracked Ruby insert I use for questionable friends lol.
 

Azn2101

Well-Known Member
Maybe that ring is a tool mark from the machining process? I don't know enough about the processing of gems to really say, possibly the haziness is micro cracks as well? Hopefully the other one you have coming is pristine, nothing wrong with having a "beater" insert, I got a cracked Ruby insert I use for questionable friends lol.
Oh ya it'll fit in somewhere I'm sure so I'm very greatful to the seller for helping me work it out so quickly.

About it being scratches I don't know since I know little other than there's a machining & polishing process and they're made in huge slabs, anything else I have no idea. That being said sunless cleaned with ISO before it's next use or twist Qtips in there like a madman, material gets caught in those hazy areas and starts to char black so it just needs extra love than the sapphire.

Plus it's No biggie, Sapphire works fine and so does this per the cleaning thung, but it's about 4.5 grams heavier than the sapphire insert and it's taking a higher temp for similar effects so I thought that was weird. Like about a 20°F higher with the same set-up. Is that about normal? Does the Corrundum make it require more heat or did I miss something about Ruby inserts that I'm doing wrong lol?

Thanks for the help btw man.
 

JCat

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
Nice I want a 23mm ruby from 710 as well but they're a few weeks out. I want to pair it with Greek's 30mm HQ banger with 3mm sidewalls for textbook fit!

How are you liking the 23mm vs the 19? How big are your dabs? 0.05g?
On GG site it says the 30mm HQ banger has 2.5mm sidewalls ... same as the 710coils bangers.

My dabs are more like .02 - .03

The idea behind the 30mm for me is more about less heat loss on starting your dab so being able to reduce the temp. In practice though ... lately I’ve been finding I get thicker vapour at a lower temp with my 19mm ruby and 25mm 710 coils setup (when paired with my RBR from biao.t). I’m thinking the smaller 1mm total gap (0.5mm all around) is where the improvement is ... but that’s just a theory until I can test it :)
 

biohacker

Well-Known Member
On GG site it says the 30mm HQ banger has 2.5mm sidewalls ... same as the 710coils bangers.
The 25mm HQ Bangers say 2.5mm sidewalls on the site too, but I bought them and they are actually in reality 3mm sidewalls. He just doesn't bother updating the website lol I'm just assuming that the 30mm would be the same, but can't confirm and don't trust what I hear, so i'm just planning on trying them out for myself when they are re-stocked.

My dabs are more like .02 - .03
Do you find any advantages to the larger ruby for this sized dab?

The idea behind the 30mm for me is more about less heat loss on starting your dab so being able to reduce the temp. In practice though ... lately I’ve been finding I get thicker vapour at a lower temp with my 19mm ruby and 25mm 710 coils setup (when paired with my RBR from biao.t). I’m thinking the smaller 1mm total gap (0.5mm all around) is where the improvement is ... but that’s just a theory until I can test it :)
I've tested this a lot recently, and I simply will not use an insert if it has a >1mm gap.

Have you tried any SiC inserts?
 

invertedisdead

Defenders Of Glass
I’m thinking the smaller 1mm total gap (0.5mm all around) is where the improvement is ... but that’s just a theory until I can test it :)
It's no theory, I've talked to @biohacker about this at length recently.

Basically that gap of air is insulative, just like a double walled stainless steel cup - inhibiting heat transfer from the sidewalls of the banger into the sidewalls of the insert. This means the insert ends up heating almost entirely from the bottom floor via conduction. That's why the D-Nail Halo/Nimbus is still the best e-nail design on the market, IMO, thermodynamically speaking.
 

510MOD

Manufacturer
It's no theory, I've talked to @biohacker about this at length recently.

Basically that gap of air is insulative, just like a double walled stainless steel cup - inhibiting heat transfer from the sidewalls of the banger into the sidewalls of the insert. This means the insert ends up heating almost entirely from the bottom floor via conduction. That's why the D-Nail Halo/Nimbus is still the best e-nail design on the market, IMO, thermodynamically speaking.
That concept sounds flawed considering there is nothing trapping or sealing that air in. If it was hermetically sealed it would work as an insulation barrier. I work with insulated glass on a daily basis. I have reviewed and also tested many different specifications of glazing systems. Once the hermetic seal is broken on insulated glass, it loses almost all thermodynamic properties the insulated barrier can provide. You will often see the glass sweat inside when this happens. The Temps in a banger are extreme compared to the Temps insulated glass is tested to, however if you want to test this yourself it is possible. My portable setup with the bottomless bangers relies solely on heat from the floor of the insert. Starting from cold you will see that the air between the insert and banger walls is closer to ambient temp because the wax will stick to the walls and if you try to clean the walls with a qtip you will likely lose some cotton to the banger walls. After a good lengthy heat up you can swipe the walls clean because the heat has transferred from the inserts to the banger walls. No heater ever touches my banger walls and there is no floor. The air inside the banger heats it and the upper portion of the banger above the insert will still be too cool to swab until after a few dabs.

Granted I am no scientist and I am probably not even that smart of a guy...just an average Chris to be honest. So my thinking could be the flawed one. I am just trying to add my 2 cents of experience and opinion.
 
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