Grifo
Well-Known Member
yeah i know
Sapphire and Ruby inserts for bangers
- Thread starter alittledabwilldoya'
- Start date
biohacker
H.R.E.A.M
bizwaxzion
Enigmatic Cannabist
I use a blazer and IR thermo and torch 4mm bottoms about 25s and 5-6mm bottoms around 30s. What changes, if any, should I incorporate when torch heating a 30mm banger with a ruby insert in it?
sapphiredabs
New Member
Hey everyone, @sapphiredabs here. Just wanted to reply to this forum and state that sapphire is fucking amazing. Ever since I purchased one, I have not looked back. I've owned every insert from @adapt_tech and they are all amazing. Couldn't see myself dabbing on quartz ever again tbh.
A few tips:
-Do NOT take your insert out your banger AFTER a heatclean and place it in a room temp banger. I had one friend that was a bit impatient, so right after a heatclean he took his insert (at like 800-900f) and placed it in another banger that was at room temp. The different in temp caused it to crack.
-Do NOT place your insert in DC (Dark Crystal) Glass Cleaner UNLESS it is 150f/below . If you place the insert in the DC cleaner immediately after microwaving it can cause the insert to chip. Let the solution cool down a bit.
-Make sure your insert & banger is completely dry before heating up. Double-checking is better than a cracked insert. One time I was moving my entire rig setup into the living room (from my bedroom) for a video-shoot, and I didn't realize that rig must've splashed some water into my insert. Went to heat up, and heard it cracking, immediately stopped. Once an insert is cracked, it'll keep getting bigger and eventually break into two/multiple pieces. Mine has yet to break, a few mean cracks but still going strong.
-I highly recommend getting the @terpometer . It is the most accurate temp-reading device I have came across regarding the sapphire/ruby inserts. Sure the temp-gun/temp-tech can do the job (and it does, i used it for the longest time), the terpometer gives a more accurate reading.
No wonder when I was dabbing at 530f on the tempgun it felt more like 470'ish.
I still use the temp gun for other things tho, like quickly checking the temp of a solution (DC Cleaner)
-Do NOT overflow your insert with ridiculous size globs. This can cause your insert to rapidly cool down and possibly chip it. a .3 is fine. But when your doing half grams and such on a regular 19mm it's just too much.
The taller (22mm/19mm XL) inserts can handle a bit more oil without rapidly cooling down but this is cause theres much more karats and its much bigger size overall.
I also want to note that I have personally tried every insert there is except SiC (I have tried ALN) and it just doesn't compare to sapphire. At least for me personally. I'm all about vapor production at low temps. and sapphire produces the most of it.
I've tried china ruby inserts, they are alright if your spending like 80$, but the heat retention does not live up the real ones at all. And the faceting on china inserts are mediocre. Again its nice for 80$, but the real thing is much more mindblowing.
A few tips:
-Do NOT take your insert out your banger AFTER a heatclean and place it in a room temp banger. I had one friend that was a bit impatient, so right after a heatclean he took his insert (at like 800-900f) and placed it in another banger that was at room temp. The different in temp caused it to crack.
-Do NOT place your insert in DC (Dark Crystal) Glass Cleaner UNLESS it is 150f/below . If you place the insert in the DC cleaner immediately after microwaving it can cause the insert to chip. Let the solution cool down a bit.
-Make sure your insert & banger is completely dry before heating up. Double-checking is better than a cracked insert. One time I was moving my entire rig setup into the living room (from my bedroom) for a video-shoot, and I didn't realize that rig must've splashed some water into my insert. Went to heat up, and heard it cracking, immediately stopped. Once an insert is cracked, it'll keep getting bigger and eventually break into two/multiple pieces. Mine has yet to break, a few mean cracks but still going strong.
-I highly recommend getting the @terpometer . It is the most accurate temp-reading device I have came across regarding the sapphire/ruby inserts. Sure the temp-gun/temp-tech can do the job (and it does, i used it for the longest time), the terpometer gives a more accurate reading.
No wonder when I was dabbing at 530f on the tempgun it felt more like 470'ish.
I still use the temp gun for other things tho, like quickly checking the temp of a solution (DC Cleaner)
-Do NOT overflow your insert with ridiculous size globs. This can cause your insert to rapidly cool down and possibly chip it. a .3 is fine. But when your doing half grams and such on a regular 19mm it's just too much.
The taller (22mm/19mm XL) inserts can handle a bit more oil without rapidly cooling down but this is cause theres much more karats and its much bigger size overall.
I also want to note that I have personally tried every insert there is except SiC (I have tried ALN) and it just doesn't compare to sapphire. At least for me personally. I'm all about vapor production at low temps. and sapphire produces the most of it.
I've tried china ruby inserts, they are alright if your spending like 80$, but the heat retention does not live up the real ones at all. And the faceting on china inserts are mediocre. Again its nice for 80$, but the real thing is much more mindblowing.
Last edited by a moderator:
Roth
Pining for the Mountains
Definitely agree that sapphire/ruby is the best dab surface I have ever tried. Once you get those wonderful low temp dabs, it's hard to go back!
Regarding your IR gun vs terpometer, what emissivity where you using on your IR gun? Have you tried playing around with the emissivity to see if you can find a value that matches your probe thermometer? I've never used a terpometer, but it's essentially a probe thermometer, correct?
Now for my biggest question, why would you say the heat retention of a China sourced insert wouldn't match that of one sourced from Russia? If they are the same material, and the same dimensions/karats, what's the difference?
Disregard facets for now, they might have certain benefits, but heat retention isn't one of them.
biohacker
H.R.E.A.M
sapphiredabs
New Member
I'd love to see some evidence of this, but nice post and welcome to FC!
Check out my highlights on Instagram @sapphiredabs. One of them is called "China Ruby". I also have "ALN vs Blue" which is ALN by @fadespaceofficial vs blue sapphire by @adapt_tech
Roth
Pining for the Mountains
Just watched that video, and it provided zero answers.
You said you think the heat retention is less because it's thinner and weighs less. Of course, this makes complete sense.
If the China insert and Russian insert are the same karats, why would the Russian one have better heat retention?
sapphiredabs
New Member
It's not the same karats. And it's two completely different sources. @adapt_tech inserts are professionally crafted in Russia. China is china. I have screenshots of @biao.t selling colored inserts and not even knowing what the insert is made of, red flag if you ask me. I also had people message me saying there constant gems/greekglass insert cracked from simply heatcleaning which shouldn't happen. I've heatcleaned @adapt_tech inserts hundreds of times and never experienced a crack. @adapt_tech is just overall better quality lab-grown corondum. And they are lanes ahead of china. producing different colors constantly, making bigger sizes, etc.
Well the thing is the china ones are never the same karats as the adapt_tech ones. China is lanes behind @adapt_tech . And a lot of them (from what i've seen) tend to be unstable and crack from simple heatcleaning.
As far as the emissivity goes, I have a 10$ temp gun (ZANMAX) from amazon. I dont think I can adjust the emissivity. But i've also compared it to my buddys temptech and I still feel its more accurate.
biohacker
H.R.E.A.M
@sapphiredabs Straight up, are you by chance Adapt Tech? I hope you understand why I think you could be.
sapphiredabs
New Member
Nah i'm just a user that converted from quartz to sapphire about a year ago and since then I haven't dabbed on quartz. I just love it a lot, and want people to realize that its truly the best surface there is.
biohacker
H.R.E.A.M
Couldn't agree with you more, and about the same timeline as you. Although I have absolutely loved all of the ruby and sapphire inserts i've purchased from Greek Glass Shop. Never have had any cracks, chips, or anything...they are like new, and although I use DC soaks to clean them, i've heat cleaned them tonnes of times without issues. I highly recommend them, and 710coils apparently has awesome quality ones from China as well.
I personally feel that Adapt Tech while have some beauties, I still don't trust just their word and think they're WAY over priced and out of touch with reality, but that's why I don't support them!
sapphiredabs
New Member
Well personally, I rather go with the innovator rather than a copycat. That's just me. But thats another discussion for another day honestly lol.
I'm glad that you're insert isn't damaged. I know two other people who have had great experience with there @greekglass insert. You got a good batch, thats all I can really say. My faceted greekglass insert didn't crack either. But the functionality just wasn't there compared to the real ones I had, and thus I sold it for much less than what I got it for cause i paid too much to simply compare it.
Roth
Pining for the Mountains
Right, if one insert is less karats, it will have less heat retention. There's absolutely no debate there.
But the issue is, you're claiming all China sourced inserts have inferior heat retention to ones from Adapt Tech, simply because the Chinese insert YOU have is less karats. That's a massive over reach of a statement.
You've seen one seller not knowing what he's selling. Ok, once again, that's not evidence that ALL Chinese inserts are inferior.
Everything from one country is not of uniform quality.
China is more than capable of producing high quality, thick sapphire and ruby inserts. They exist.
I keep coming back to your claim that Chinese inserts don't have the same heat retention as Russian sourced ones. If they are the same dimension, what's the difference?
You're making a broad and far reaching claim, based on little to no evidence that I can see.
sapphiredabs
New Member
I'm saying it's inferior because with @adapt_tech you get 100% professional perfection each and everytime. With china it's honestly a gamble. And to debate that would be silly. I know those who have great experience with there china inserts. And i know others who have cracked it within the first day from just simply using it. All from different sources in China. They just don't have there tech down yet.
If they have the same karats, sure it can have the same heat retention. but until that happens, china inserts have lower heat retention. My dropin insert from adapt_tech which is there cheapest insert, had more heat retention than the faceted 18mm insert from @greekglass.
There's no china insert that has the same size & same karats as @adapt_tech. The rubypearlco, constant gems, greekglass, diggaglass, biao.t, they are all very similar, and don't have nearly as many karats as the traditional adapt_tech inserts in the same size (same wall thickness & bottom). I'm sure China will get there eventually. And when they do, @adapt_tech will be far ahead of them by then & i'll still support @adapt_tech in the end.
If you're not convinced I guess i'll have to gather some funds and buy an insert from each china retailer and do comparisons. I've been thinking about it for a while, and just might do it. It's a waste of money but I rather people see & know for sure.
Last edited by a moderator:
biohacker
H.R.E.A.M
By faceted you mean the top edge/lip bevel?
sapphiredabs
New Member
No like literally faceted. If you check my highlight you'll see what I mean. cut edges around the side of the insert to make it look "faceted".
The top edge your talking about is a beveled edge.
biohacker
H.R.E.A.M
That's what I thought. And when exactly did Greek sell these? News to me... i've been a customer for a while too.
sapphiredabs
New Member
It was an auction, if you look on his page you'll see the auction post. Blue, blue spinel (which is very unstable btw), & ruby, all faceted.
biohacker
H.R.E.A.M
So what am I missing out on with my greek non facetted 19mm? It's thick, and works great. Why would anyone want even MORE heat retention? These gemstones have wicked retention to begin with.
I dunno man, you still seem to be pushing adapt tech pretty shilly. Just IMO of course! But seriously, you just came here with your first post, and just seems obvious.
sapphiredabs
New Member
I'm just shedding light on the differences cause I see a few china user inserts in here, that's all.
And trust me, when you experience the real insert then try the china ones, you'll want to stay with your "even more heat retention". I'm not shitting on anyone or judging anyone for owning/using one. I'm just stating the differences for anyone who didn't know. I didn't mean to come off rude or anything.
I knew there would be people who simply won't agree with me. Which is why I said above; i'll most likely just buy an insert from each china retailer and do comparisons. And people can make there decision from there. If they still don't want to agree with me, nothing I can do from that point. Cheers
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm sure we'd all love to see direct comparisons with an IR gun and a timer as well (at least), to show the heat retention, as well as a demo video. That would allow one then to do a true cost/benefit analysis of one product vs another based on actual evidence. Will the heat retention be so much better as to make it worth > 4x the cost? I guess we'll know soon enough!
Make sure to get some of the 710coils 23mm ones coming in for the 30mm bangers. (I love my 22mm from them as well as my 2x 19mm ones from Greek Glass)
No ones disputing that the Adapt Tech inserts are nice, but I'm not sure the value is there when there are great quality inserts available at much lower price. Are they quite as nice? Do they work quite as well? I think that likely has mostly to do with karats ... One of the reason I LOVE my 22mm one from 710coils and super looking forward to my 23mm one on its way soon!
Never had any of my China inserts crack
They are all amazing!sapphiredabs
New Member
I'm sure we'd all love to see direct comparisons with an IR gun and a timer as well (at least), to show the heat retention, as well as a demo video. That would allow one then to do a true cost/benefit analysis of one product vs another based on actual evidence. Will the heat retention be so much better as to make it worth > 4x the cost? I guess we'll know soon enough!
Make sure to get some of the 710coils 23mm ones coming in for the 30mm bangers. (I love my 22mm from them as well as my 2x 19mm ones from Greek Glass)
No ones disputing that the Adapt Tech inserts are nice, but I'm not sure the value is there when there are great quality inserts available at much lower price. Are they quite as nice? Do they work quite as well? I think that likely has mostly to do with karats ... One of the reason I LOVE my 22mm one from 710coils and super looking forward to my 23mm one on its way soon!
Never had any of my China inserts crack
I'll be sure to do a timer & whatnot. I did do that at the time I had the insert, but I never highlighted it x.x . I'll be sure to do that next time, but i'm not talking out my ass. if the cheaper insert had the same heat retention i would of kept it and still dab on it to this day.
Not everyone can afford an @adapt_tech insert. And I get that. They have payment plans now which is nice. But in my opinion, as well as everyone else I know who has bought one, have stated its 100% worth it. And some of them have tried china inserts.
The 22mm insert would probably produce a bit better results, but it's not gonna have the same heat retention as the @adapt_tech 22mms. Those have 70+ karats. I'd be very surprised if it has the same karats as the @adapt_tech 22mms.
And yea maybe your inserts haven't cracked, which is nice would suck if it did. but many others have. @biao.t just told me a few hours ago that his ruby cracks. Which makes sense cause a few friends I know of have bought em and they have cracked. I told him to figure it out, cause I'm not a gemologist or anything like that lmao.
I'll come back and update when I have the other china inserts in my hand.
Last edited:
Roth
Pining for the Mountains
Can anyone tell me where Adapt Tech is located? Asking for a friend.
I think the company is based out Nevada? Maybe Arizona, but somewhere out in the South West if I'm not mistaken. Could be wrong on that though.
Their inserts are sourced from Russia.
I just weighed my 22mm ruby insert from 710Coils, and it weighed in at 15.04 g, or just a hair over 75 carats.
And 710Coils new batch of inserts coming in are 23mm diameter, so they'll weigh even more. Curious to hear what those weigh.
And my mistake for misusing karat vs carat before. Been meaning carat the whole time, always get them mixed up for some reason.
And to be clear, I have nothing against Adapt Tech. Their inserts are absolutely gorgeous, almost works of art. If I had the cash for one, I would definitely be picking up one (or two!).
The facets might actually play a nice role in increasing nucleation sites. I don't have a faceted insert, so can't compare. I actually still use one or two 5mm ruby terp pearls in my insert.
I'm simply pushing back on your claim that ALL China inserts don't have the heat retention of their Russian counterparts.
I don't believe that to be the case, at least not without some evidence presented.