The Beagle
Bubbles & Bags
Sorry if I'm a bit OT but what the hell is sauce? I'm reading it more an more here on the internet but have no idea what's that about.
Rosin Technique....Easy DIY Solventless
- Thread starter darkrom
- Start date
Sorry if I'm a bit OT but what the hell is sauce? I'm reading it more an more here on the internet but have no idea what's that about.
biohacker
H.R.E.A.M
The Beagle
Bubbles & Bags
Thanks, I went the lazy way and just asked you guys... I'm still confused about how this is extracted but this time I'll Google it myself!
biohacker
H.R.E.A.M
All good my friend, that's why I just posted the link - so we could keep this thread on topic... cheers!
It's a consistency of extract which is runny, or goopy. "Saucey"
The high terpene content causes it to stay in that liquid-y form.
Though the process for making it is more akin to the chemistry of hard street drugs... supersaturating in solvent to force crystallization.
I am trying to optimise the use of my press and I would like to get your opinions.
Now I can measure the amount of force my press is delivering I have become more interested in the optimal pressure. From what I have read up to 1500 psi?
My press is rated at 10 ton so 20,000 lbs.
My bags are currently 2 x 3 1/2 (not optimal on 5x3 plates?) so 7 square inch.
If the manometer reads 6 US ton then I am applying 12,000 lbs to 7 square inches => 1700 psi.
Is this calculation correct and is this optimal or should I lay off the pressure a bit. 5 ton would give me 1400 psi.
Another thing I am trying to get right is the optimal bag size. I have 5x3 plates.
I have tried 2 x 4. I can comfortably press 10 gram but the rosin does have to travel over 1/2 of heated plate before it emerges.
I just tried 3 x 5 with 15 gram. The bag does not extend beyond the edge of the plate so the rosin comes out directly, it was a nice result with a very light coloured rosin but the yield was down a bit. That could be the bag or the fact I am running at 205F (measured on the plates).
When the sewing machine comes back from the repair shop I (well my better half) will make a 2 1/2 inch bag and see if that is better. I will quite happily repair a car, computer or pretty much anything but a sewing machines is somehow out of my reach, there is something strange and alien about them.
Now I can measure the amount of force my press is delivering I have become more interested in the optimal pressure. From what I have read up to 1500 psi?
My press is rated at 10 ton so 20,000 lbs.
My bags are currently 2 x 3 1/2 (not optimal on 5x3 plates?) so 7 square inch.
If the manometer reads 6 US ton then I am applying 12,000 lbs to 7 square inches => 1700 psi.
Is this calculation correct and is this optimal or should I lay off the pressure a bit. 5 ton would give me 1400 psi.
Another thing I am trying to get right is the optimal bag size. I have 5x3 plates.
I have tried 2 x 4. I can comfortably press 10 gram but the rosin does have to travel over 1/2 of heated plate before it emerges.
I just tried 3 x 5 with 15 gram. The bag does not extend beyond the edge of the plate so the rosin comes out directly, it was a nice result with a very light coloured rosin but the yield was down a bit. That could be the bag or the fact I am running at 205F (measured on the plates).
When the sewing machine comes back from the repair shop I (well my better half) will make a 2 1/2 inch bag and see if that is better. I will quite happily repair a car, computer or pretty much anything but a sewing machines is somehow out of my reach, there is something strange and alien about them.
mc
Well-Known Member
So the size you want to calculate is the end size of the puck, not the initial size, since it will flatten out a lot during the press.
And you have a Nugsmasher already, have you beenw atching their vids? bottle tech filter style;
They show it better in other videos but this shows him getting 29% doing 3 presses in one press, and busts no filters int he process.
I love the bottle tech filters because the footprint of the end puck is so small, but you pressed out large amounts because the material was mostly vertical.
Also, at temps below 210, you can press it with the oil on the plates for that 2-3 mintues without much color loss, no need to rpess it right off the plates unless you are doing directional flow hash/keif pressing.
here's a 30% yield on flower;
I made a run using a 160 micron filters and 10 grams of trim, ended up with a gram of the most runny rosin I've squished yet, very pretty gold color. 200F for about 90 seconds. The terps were so potent it actually burned the throat a bit even at low temps off SiC.
Very curious about this as well ... the PSI I should use ... just finally ordered some bags to do bottle tech, but wondering still about the PSI. I've been usually pressing 3g at a time, which gives me about a 1.5" diameter puck when pressed. At this size, 1ton (2000 lbs) is giving me >1,000PSI on the puck; even at this I get rosin bleeding through the parchment onto a second parchment (I'm doubling for this reason), and even a little through the 2nd parchment onto the plates.
Others have stated this probably means I'm using too much pressure ... however, I hear people saying they are pressing at insanely higher pressures, and haven't heard complaints of this bleed through. I've tried every type of parchment paper I can get my hands on locally (mainly using Reynold's premium right now)
Thoughts?
This is the identical press being sold Mastercraft branded at Canadian Tire, also the same one at Princess Auto, also the same one at, .... really at $150 CAD at Canadian Tire right now if you can find a discontinued one, it's a steal! If I remember right it's over $300 for the exact same thing at Princess Auto (I guess it's not exactly the same, I think the Princess Auto one is blue vs red and has a different sticker!!)
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PPN
Volute of Vapor
Did you tried the ptfe sheets too (not parchment)? since I use it I haven't anything going through the sheet...
I haven't. Anything I want to try costs me a bundle as it's $15-$20 shipping to get anything to me (or a 10 hour drive in each direction to go in person)
Since I don't have any filter bags yet, I hadn't purchased any PTFE sheets. I just ordered some bags from azpressco ($5 shipping from the US ... so $14 USD for 10 bags) ... I wanted to get them in country so they'd get here quicker, but for the size I want, I couldn't find anything for less than $40 within Canada after shipping (closer to $50 just for 10 bags)
I would have ordered some filter bags and PTFE and maybe better parchment from THC in Toronto, but hey don't have any good filter bags! So if I want to order the PTFE from them, it will cost me the $25 for the roll, + $15 in shipping!
Cost of PTFE, bags, and parchment paper is going to cost me more than my press at this rate!!! lol
If I lived in Southern Ontario or Vancouver or somewhere with stores, then I could wander on down and purchase things to try out, but really not an option! and since I don't know anyone within 1,000km of me that also presses rosin, not like we can split!
Oh well ... geographical woes in regards to retail and shipping ...
... but it is a beautiful place to live here! (think I'm going to take the dogs for a walk in the bush shortly)Edit: as well, would it be worth going with any more pressure? I'm already getting ~25% yields ... wouldn't more pressure, although it would increase the yields, wouldn't it reduce the quality?
Edit Edit: as well, I see most people using parchment (videos etc), and yet I hear very little talk of this very real problem
... so I'm confused ... what's different? or is it just that nobody mentions this?
nosmoking
Just so Dab HAppy!
I have found that parchment paper breaks/tears much easier than PTFE. It is pretty rare for me to ever tear the PTFE sheets but I would often find that parchment would rip or tear regardless of whether I used filter bags or not. I remember when I would use parchment only I always had a larger piece of parchment on the press in case the parchment that the bud was folded in broke. I also came to realize all the stupid folding techniques are pretty much useless. Fold the parchment in half with the 3 open ends sticking an extra 1" or so out of your plates. This will eliminate blowouts and reduce your chance of losing your yield to the parchment/PTFE...at least IME.
Well ... sounds like your experience is not that different than mine ... I've settled on no fancy folding similar to you ... I do double up so I can capture bleed through and not get any on my plates ...
That being said, I almost never have had a tear. I don't think I've ever had a tear on 1st press, although I have, very rarely, had a tear on 2nd press. (with no significant loss since it was doubled up anyways)
I just feel like maybe I could/should be using more pressure to increase yields, but the bleed through says otherwise as well as others have indicated that this bleed through is indicative of too much pressure .. and then I see other sources using tons of pressure with bottle tech, so the end puck size is pretty small and the PSI is definitely way over 1000PSI.
nosmoking
Just so Dab HAppy!
I just did my first bottle tech this past weekend and it was neat but I would rather avoid filter bags. I am only pressing 3-5 grams at a time usually and I don't see the great yields with filters. I do feel the filter absorbs, traps and retains a small percentage of your yield. I typically get better yields with a 5 minute pre-press and just a sheet of folded in half PTFE.
I would order the 250 sheets package of 10"x10" PFTE from Amazon for $20-25. I ordered mine almost a year ago and I am sure I still have more than half the pack. I don't reuse them either. One and done. But I do cut off a 3" x 10" strip from the folded sheet for my 2nd press so the 1st press is done on a 7x10 sheet really. I rarely have blowouts but if I do it is typically on the 2nd press and I straight killed it with pressure. I don't use a spare piece on my plates anymore just cause its not needed.
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hmmm ... and I had heard if using PTFE one had to use bags ... interesting ... this is the first time I've heard this! I heard without filters, when using PTFE, everything just went everywhere ...
Edit: I can get the roll for ~$40 shipped on amazon.ca, no 250 sheets available on amazon.ca, just amazon.com
tepictoton
Well-Known Member
try oil slick paper!
has a stronger layer of ptfe on one side then normal paper. Works like a charm(with filter! without it will just spread everything out). The PTFE sheets(so not paper!) is pure PTFE, more useful for producing solvent oils and or packing oils in my opinion.
Oil slick paper is the one you are after, for sure vapefiend will have them, if not ebay is a place to find them as well.
has a stronger layer of ptfe on one side then normal paper. Works like a charm(with filter! without it will just spread everything out). The PTFE sheets(so not paper!) is pure PTFE, more useful for producing solvent oils and or packing oils in my opinion.
Oil slick paper is the one you are after, for sure vapefiend will have them, if not ebay is a place to find them as well.
mc
Well-Known Member
hmmm ... and I had heard if using PTFE one had to use bags ... interesting ... this is the first time I've heard this! I heard without filters, when using PTFE, everything just went everywhere ...
Edit: I can get the roll for ~$40 shipped on amazon.ca, no 250 sheets available on amazon.ca, just amazon.com
YOu got a link for that PTFE? I've been loking for a source for bulk for cheap.
nosmoking
Just so Dab HAppy!
I must apologize to you all. I have been saying PTFE for the last several posts but I did mean Slick Sheet silicone release paper from Oil Slick. Here is a link to what I have been using.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01M...lick+sheet&dpPl=1&dpID=51RbPBXUK9L&ref=plSrch
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01M...lick+sheet&dpPl=1&dpID=51RbPBXUK9L&ref=plSrch
Are we really sure that PTFE doesn't leech?
I got a pressure cooker for Christmas with a teflon pot and it smells like everything I've cooked in it so far.
I got a pressure cooker for Christmas with a teflon pot and it smells like everything I've cooked in it so far.
tepictoton
Well-Known Member
Feels a lot safer to me then using baking paper...
The slick paper almost never tears nor do I think it is in contact with anything for long enough to leach...
I am not a scientist, well some kind of scientist in a way, but not a Teflon safety scientist lol
I do feel I will survive
The slick paper almost never tears nor do I think it is in contact with anything for long enough to leach...
I am not a scientist, well some kind of scientist in a way, but not a Teflon safety scientist lol
I do feel I will survive
The slick paper is parchment paper. It's just a thicker parchment paper. Parchment paper is by definition silicone release paper. (google the definition of parchment paper, not the writing kind).Feels a lot safer to me then using baking paper...
The slick paper almost never tears nor do I think it is in contact with anything for long enough to leach...
I am not a scientist, well some kind of scientist in a way, but not a Teflon safety scientist lol
I do feel I will survive
I would think a large restaurant supply store (maybe something like STOP) would carry thicker higher quality commercial parchment paper and that would be the same ... every time I leave town and end up in a larger center this is something I have my eyes open for now ...
...Baking paper = parchment paper = silicone coated paper = oil slick paper
Only difference is the oil slick is of a thicker variety. It may have a better quality coating too ... I don't know ... Some parchment paper is also treated with chlorine or Quilon, which should be avoided, but not most from what I've found from my research. Most is just treated with plain old food-safe silicone
Edit:
amazon.ca does not carry the slick sheets. Just the PTFE rolls.
Edit Edit: After looking around (I've already done so, but just did another quick Google), cheapest I can get them after shipping and tax is >$50 CAD for a package.
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I am using any baking paper (not wax paper) I can get at the supermarket, mainly unbleached. The only issue I have is that a single layer does sometimes bleed through onto my plates. I think this is mainly due the the extra pressure I can excerpt with my big press. I tried some SlickSheet yesterday (still had some laying around) and didn't like it because I found it difficult to get the rosin off. When I cooled it enough to get it off cleanly it turned to shatter and jumped all over the place. I think I will go for a double layer of baking paper for my next press.
I current store in silicon containers inside another container in the fridge. Never noticed any issues even after months of storage.