Little bit of crumbly BHO, 600f through the j hook, one hit. That was pretty damn good I can't lie! Nice cloud, decent flavor, I'm high. Probably could have gone a little lower temp. I'll have to experiment with one of the smaller Elev8 ceramic discs I got a while ago that I know fit the ZX also. Supposedly you can just torch those clean but I'm not sure how good of a long term solution that is.
The ceramic discs should be silicon carbide which descended from the Health Stone vaporizer. They should be torchable as long as the quality is good. Those are used industrially to filter molten metal so they're rather robust.
@invertedisdead
What are your thoughts on this sort of gasification/particle size reduction trend that has recently been revived from the ashes of the sublimator and its hotly debated claims?
I see a lot of people hailing the FK-Electropath combo as the hardest hitter they’ve ever used. Then there’s the tornado which claims to do similar things, and the small number of users that have it on here and discord say it’s doing *something* that gets them higher faster and for longer.
I know there’s been a lot of debate on the topic in the past when the sub was first hitting the scene. I’ve tried reading as much of that as I can, but I’d also like to know if opinions have changed as tech and understanding of the underlying concepts has done.
Why do people using these devices all report getting so damn high? What’s actually going on here?
Thanks in advance, I appreciate the knowledge you and some other users drop on this site regularly
Opening Pandora's box casually on a Tuesday morning I see
Respect to these companies and the individuals piloting them but since you asked for my take - I think it's great marketing, every weed and vape company wants you to believe their products are the strongest so that's all cool.
But the physics involved seem to leave a lot to the imagination.
My stance is pretty simple - there's no compression available to actually atomize the working fluid into smaller particles.
You would need laser scattering to actually test this, but as a visual analogy, here's what the process would sort of look like:
Notice nobody can achieve this result by plugging a nozzle directly to a water hose or faucet.
To achieve this you need a source of compression to
compress the fluid enough to pass it through a
very tiny orifice and break the droplets up into smaller sizes.
It's not something that could be reproduced with human lung power. This is similar to when dabbers claim the lungs pull a vacuum when using a carb cap with an air inlet. Imagine trying to seal a vacuum bag with a hole in it.
As I posted early on in the Tornado thread, this exact particle size reduction claim was already made with the Anvil, so IMHO this new model is sort of automatically disqualified for not understanding the assignment.
And I like the Anvil a lot. It's one of the few vapes I would buy that isn't my own.
But a particle size distribution test would demonstrate, analytically, if this was actually occurring.
If anyone had the background and ability to provide that test, it would be that company.
It is true that smaller size particles would theoretically be more bioavailable, but the second you run those smaller particles through a water bong or some dimpled or angled dry rig they would coagulate and condense back into larger sizes, even if it was possible.
As far as the potency comments, it's always kinda hard to tell between honeymoons, new strains, and varying experience levels: there's people on FC that still think the MFLB is the best ever made. It's like asking 100 stoners what the strongest herb they ever had was.
It's just so subjective. I love when people say my vapes are the strongest they've used too, so I get it, but quantifying potency continues to be a challenging issue to demonstrate with this choice plant.
If I think the ZX is stronger than the Anvil, and I don't claim the ZX has the ability to turn basketballs into golfballs, what would that make of any of it? Just an opinion at this point I suppose. It's cool that we live in a time with all these choices. I remember when we had to choose between a Solo or a Volcano
Ironically the main debate with the Sublimator wasn't even this particle size concept, it was their more abstract claim of sublimating cannabinoids - going from a solid directly to a gas, with no liquid phase, just like dry ice...
The particle size thing with the Sub was obviously never occurring, as the atomizing "nozzle" was always full of condensed reclaim that fell out of phase before the vapor even left the bowl. At the time the Sub was booming, there wasn't all these big coil powered heavy hitters to choose from like there is now, so it didn't really matter if the claims were true or not as it was still potent and there weren't a bunch of other devices to compare it to.
The Tornado improves on this by adding copper cladding down the sidewalls to (theoretically) put the "atomizer" at equilibrium with the heater. Much better approach.
But there's still no compression source to break the fluid up into smaller particles.
If running vapor through a smaller hole was enough to make the vape stronger, we could all just switch to 10MM water pipes.
Ideally in my mind you would want to reheat the mixture
hotter than the first vaporization temperature to supersaturate the fluid, which wouldn't be possible with the Tornado. But again, even if you could, by the time you cooled that back down to a more comfortable level, it seems like that effort would have been wasted.
Gasification, just like sublimation, sounds fancy and scientific.
In the end these words and stories are good for sales.
And I wonder why nobody has invited me onto their vape podcast to discuss physics lol
I think the Electropath is the only one that you can actually run the bowl temp higher than the main heater, but I'm not sure how much you can go without risking combustion at the herb as I haven't had an opportunity to play with one. But the dual heaters should also solve the condensate issue that the Sub had so I'm sure it's a very powerful device. I know for a fact that
@Custom Flower Hardware is just like me in that we wouldn't release a vape unless we truly felt it could compete against the best of the best.
Respect to both of these companies for taking on this challenging industry.
Have had my ZX's and my ZXL on hot holes for a couple of months now. Love the ease of wireless. Run the ZX and ZXL high 400s to low 500s depending on the strain/age/water vessel. I can do both in one hit at these temps, The recovery is quick, under 2 minutes, but your mileage may vary. Temps are soooooo subjective. What I do know is both of these are far superior to all of the Metal heads that came before, they work perfectly well wireless and they rock! Thanks Inverted!
So so much for rocking ultra heavy with the Z Tribe friend!
Post a photo if you have a chance, I'm sure the 'Tribe would love to see what you got going
