Phase3 Vaporizers

Ernielicous

Well-Known Member
Loving catching up on all these ideas, I have all the 16mm heads (Z8, SX, ZX) & would still definitely be interested in another 16, this hybrid one sounds like it'd fit very nicely among my collection, but if we decide to go 20 mm welp I'm all in regardless. I have a couple spare 20mm coils laying around anyway. If it comes out being something like the supreme tube but with added airflow & better purity from the zirconia then I'd say id be stupid if I didn't aquire this machinery. Always appreciate your research your thoughts and your input @invertedisdead happy to support you when I can it's the least I could do for showing me the way thru all your posts :)
 

coolbreeze

Well-Known Member
Loving catching up on all these ideas, I have all the 16mm heads (Z8, SX, ZX) & would still definitely be interested in another 16, this hybrid one sounds like it'd fit very nicely among my collection, but if we decide to go 20 mm welp I'm all in regardless. I have a couple spare 20mm coils laying around anyway. If it comes out being something like the supreme tube but with added airflow & better purity from the zirconia then I'd say id be stupid if I didn't aquire this machinery. Always appreciate your research your thoughts and your input @invertedisdead happy to support you when I can it's the least I could do for showing me the way thru all your posts :)
Just about where I'm at too. :tup:
 

Cheebsy

Microbe minion
The loyal tribe is definately growing 🥰

Join Us Evil Dead GIF by filmeditor
 

dudeguy

Well-Known Member
What price range are you thinking?

Honestly I’m not certain that my hybrid vape would really be any cheaper than a ZX as the manufacturing technology is specialized. I know I’ve mentioned my higher manufacturing costs previously with the Z vapes, but the reality is I can’t innovate without doing innovative things. 🛸🛸🛸

I need to check some price quotes to see what I’m actually looking at. But I haven’t finished the design as I’m still trying to figure if I want to do 16MM or 20MM; and if I want to do an injector or a diffuser. Even though my injector bowls function as a diffuser, a lot of people don’t realize this, so it might be preferable to just change.

Here’s something I want to add - I notice most people said they would prefer 20MM for my hybrid vape concept but if we really want more conduction impact we want to use a narrower bowl. This will put more herb in contact with the sidewalls, which is what provides the conduction heating. For an extreme example look at the Supreme bowl, it’s about the same ID as a Dynavap.
I'd say up to 200 is a nice price range. Ofc I don't know if this is feasible or practical with specialized technology. A 16MM ZXH sounds really interesting though :)
 

RedZep

Well-Known Member
@invertedisdead Any reason a 14mm ZX couldn't be made portable for a 16mm coil? Would it theoretically have enough mass/heat capacity to function?

Would it still theoretically perform well at low temps in a wireless format?
 

invertedisdead

PHASE3
Manufacturer
@invertedisdead Any reason a 14mm ZX couldn't be made portable for a 16mm coil? Would it theoretically have enough mass/heat capacity to function?

Would it still theoretically perform well at low temps in a wireless format?

Yeah it would work, it's based on my 1.7 which was made of glass (and quartz) and I used to torch them and use it wirelessly a few years ago. Somebody in this thread made a handle and converted a ZX into wireless, I can't seem to find the post for some reason though.

The main problem with using the current ZX with most existing wireless setups is most of the heaters are using the axial coils which cover the bottom; whereas a ZX would need a barrel coil - one that goes straight through without a bottom, so the joint can stick through.
 
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RedZep

Well-Known Member
Should I post the 25MM ZXXL? 🫡 what size are you thinking of?



I was thinking 16MM with a deeper bowl but most seem to be thinking 20MM.

What I’m trying to achieve is the hardest hitting and lowest maintenance/easiest to use device. With a new ultra high surface area low drag convection heating system to supplement a new bowl design. It’s inspired by legacy favorites like the Supreme and Sublimator, but with my personal spin on it to…

A. Alter the convection/conduction balance
B. Improve the airflow
C. Improve the flavor/purity
D. Improve the ease of use.

All that said, I’m not totally sure there’s a market for this concept device. When I write all that down it sounds great but I have to wonder if even that is “enough.”
I also think since it’s not a ball vape that might actually detract from interest, I’m curious to introduce new technologies, but I’m not sure the market is really looking for different tech now that ball vapes are so popular and in the spotlight. Look at the thermal twist thread…




Appreciate your input friend!

It sounds like people are saying they like the ZX so much as it is, that a new vape would be better off in 20MM to avoid overlap?





I was going to do a wireless ZX a year or two ago, I talked to DC about making me a custom 16MM coil and everything.

For what it’s worth stainless steel is not really a great material to make a bowl from. It’s extremely dense/heavy and is going to not only rob tons of heat from the system, but also retain it by staying hot for a long time too.

Adjustable screen height is something I’ve been thinking about new ways to implement, but it’s a feature that would be more beneficial in a full convection vape - as a stainless bowl is almost always going to result in conduction dominance, so getting the load closer to the heater isn’t as impactful since the sidewalls of the bowl are going to do most of the vaporizing.

To observe the conduction properties of a stainless steel bowl , boil water, then pour in a stainless kitchen bowl. It will almost instantly become too hot to hold. That’s only ~100C Now imagine a vaporizer heater mating to the bowl at 200-250C.

The more I think about it, if I want to make a conduction based device perhaps I should unplug and get away from all the wires and wired heating systems. Even the “wireless” ball vapes still need to be plugged into a wall for heating. It reminds me of the Volcano - you can carry a hit into the other room, but for anyone looking for true cordless freedom it’s not a “real” solution.

Last week I was working on a design for the torch/induction market, but thermodyamically optimized for faster extraction AND faster heat up time. I believe that’s the magic combo missing. There’s so much focus parroting the same heat retention concepts, but the problem with heat retention is it’s only achieved by heating something up for more time. IMO that tends to make for a clunky experience, especially for people coming over from combustion seeking instant results and ease of use.




If I did that the best solution might be to make the ZXXL coil compatible with 25mm coils and just drop the 20MM ZXL since most wireless systems are based on 25MM coils. The main issue I’ve mentioned previously with this is the coil fitment on a wireless is different from what you want on a plug-in.

The thing is, from experience testing basically everything you could possibly do to a ball vape - increasing the diameter of the housing isn’t really a great idea, as you lose the concentration of heat from the coil and then have to rely on the beads to sustain temperatures since the coils effectiveness is reduced when spread out over a larger mass and circumference of beads. That said, there is a solution to this I could probably propose pretty easily and add insulation through other means, similar to what I did with the ZXL.

You just have to be prepared to make some sacrifices when trying to do that jack of all trades approach - for example the ZX can change between temperatures very fast for a ball vape, something designed with high heat retention for wireless isn’t going to be able to do that.
A wireless butane/induction ball vape from you would be popular I think. Something like the form of the Verdavap, but with the aforementioned efficiency and induction ability. If also in the 14mm format I would absolutely love that.

Infact that sounds incredible.
 

invertedisdead

PHASE3
Manufacturer
A wireless butane/induction ball vape from you would be popular I think. Something like the form of the Verdavap, but with the aforementioned efficiency and induction ability. If also in the 14mm format I would absolutely love that.

Infact that sounds incredible.


I'm working on something heavy and PHASE3 style for the Dyna/Anvil/Tempest category :whoa:
 

RedZep

Well-Known Member
Same! To me, that looks like a slightly over packed fine/medium grind load to the top with an abnormally high temp for the zx (other metal ball vapes tend to need more heat than zx) so, it was probably just an inexperienced session. Obviously just guessing here. Does Jerry post here on FC?
I really like Troy and his content. But my god he makes every vape look bad first use. He goes into everything blind, and just fumbles through it. Always choosing a temp much higher than recommended. The man combusts more than an actual smoker.

It's entertaining, but a poor way to gauge a vapes quality.

@invertedisdead Is there any reason I shouldn't complete a pre-order transaction on the ZX bundle? It says expected shipping April 20 but I noticed reading back through the thread you are not sure if you are making any more.
 
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invertedisdead

PHASE3
Manufacturer
I really like Troy and his content. But my god he makes every vape look bad first use. He goes into everything blind, and just fumbles through it. Always choosing a temp much higher than recommended. The man combusts more than an actual smoker.

It's entertaining, but a poor way to gauge a vapes quality.

@invertedisdead Is there any reason I shouldn't complete a pre-order transaction on the ZX bundle? It says expected shipping April 20 but I noticed reading back through the thread you are not sure if you are making any more.

I don’t know how many more rounds I’m going to do but I have more ZX’s on order right now if you want to reserve one they are definitely coming!
 

Axel_420

Well-Known Member
Please @invertedisdead let us know about the new improvements that will be in the new batch of ZX when you are sure before the time for pre-order runs out. I might be interested in the improvements you mentioned above.
Do you think the new bowl will also be sold separately and/or become the new bowl for the ZX? What would be the differences with the current one? Premature questions perhaps.

I would also like to know if the difference will be significant/tangible compared to the first batch of the ZX that I have and whether the new bowl would be compatible with the first version of the ZX. Thank you.
 

BreadStick

Well-Known Member
If you made a small zirconia housing like the tempest head and filled it with balls would it be feasible to try heating it with a coil similar to how the fw9 heats the ceramic capsules? I'm imagining a cool two piece vape where one part is the heater which is this zirconia housing you heat up and then you have a bowl/stem assembly you place on the heater to vape. It'd be like a zirconia version of the woodscents log vape?
 

RedZep

Well-Known Member
I notice temp agility is mentioned for ZX. How it reacts relatively quickly to temp adjustments. I imagine this also gives it a relatively fast heat recovery speed after extracting a bowl?

Relative to other ball vapes that is. If anyone can confirm this or give opinions it would be appreciated.

I'm not looking to be convinced of the device, as I have just made my pre-order. I'm in regardless. Just curious about this aspect.
 

invertedisdead

PHASE3
Manufacturer
Please @invertedisdead let us know about the new improvements that will be in the new batch of ZX when you are sure before the time for pre-order runs out. I might be interested in the improvements you mentioned above.
Do you think the new bowl will also be sold separately and/or become the new bowl for the ZX? What would be the differences with the current one? Premature questions perhaps.

I would also like to know if the difference will be significant/tangible compared to the first batch of the ZX that I have and whether the new bowl would be compatible with the first version of the ZX. Thank you.

I always make a few tiny changes to each round but for the most part they are all the same since the beginning.

The incoming ZX is pretty much the same.
The screen shelf in the head is shorter now to match the bowl.

That other bowl idea is my updated ultra low profile V2 design but it needs testing. I want to try and get a few for evaluation and if I like it they would immediately go up for order. Yes it would be compatible with all the ZX’s!

I was considered making some other changes to the ZX (that I mentioned a few posts back) but I think I’m just gonna keep them as is for now since everything is already dialed in.

Had to get my preorder in! The ZX looks like the perfect heavy for me to replace my old one.

Also wanted to shout out @invertedisdead for being so helpful answering some questions through e-mail with thoughtful responses.

Now the wait begins :ninja:

Welcome to the Z Tribe friend, you're definitely in for a terry treat!!!

And thank you for the kind comment, I just caught up on all my emails yesterday so my response time is getting more back to normal.

If you made a small zirconia housing like the tempest head and filled it with balls would it be feasible to try heating it with a coil similar to how the fw9 heats the ceramic capsules? I'm imagining a cool two piece vape where one part is the heater which is this zirconia housing you heat up and then you have a bowl/stem assembly you place on the heater to vape. It'd be like a zirconia version of the woodscents log vape?

Kinda sounds like my Sandcastle Vapor Wand though it's not coil powered. I thinking I'm going to make a new vapor wand in stainless steel and post them up for sale soon because I still think the form factor is superior and people are becoming more interested in manual vapes again.

Basically it will be like a torch powered PHASE3 SX. Budget friendly.
Might be induction compatible too if I use ferritic stainless steel. And I can use profits from that to help develop some new concepts.

25MM wireless is also in the works and I'm probably going to try and sneak some in to this incoming production round.

I notice temp agility is mentioned for ZX. How it reacts relatively quickly to temp adjustments. I imagine this also gives it a relatively fast heat recovery speed after extracting a bowl?

Relative to other ball vapes that is. If anyone can confirm this or give opinions it would be appreciated.

I'm not looking to be convinced of the device, as I have just made my pre-order. I'm in regardless. Just curious about this aspect.

Thanks so much for rocking with me!

There's no recovery required with the ZX, it will never run out of heat during a hit. I frequently use mine back to back with groups of people, and it's never lagged once ever. It's designed to hold in just extra heat than it loses, so it can adjust temperatures quickly but is always available and ready for work at full potential.
 

RedZep

Well-Known Member
Loving catching up on all these ideas, I have all the 16mm heads (Z8, SX, ZX) & would still definitely be interested in another 16, this hybrid one sounds like it'd fit very nicely among my collection, but if we decide to go 20 mm welp I'm all in regardless. I have a couple spare 20mm coils laying around anyway. If it comes out being something like the supreme tube but with added airflow & better purity from the zirconia then I'd say id be stupid if I didn't aquire this machinery. Always appreciate your research your thoughts and your input @invertedisdead happy to support you when I can it's the least I could do for showing me the way thru all your posts :)
For me the 16mm format is what originally drew me in. I don't think ball vapes are efficient with bowl sizes above 0.2g. I've had too many experiences of getting higher with less material vaped efficiently to ignore.

Larger format ball vapes also dump a huge excess of heat into your lungs when using small glass pieces. The current meta of having a massive overkill ball vape head, vaping a massive bowl, through a huge glass piece, then coughing your lungs up, before cleaning your huge rig constantly, is what turned me away from desktop ball vapes.

Smaller bowls plays into the always on format of a ball vape also. I don't wan't to warm up a ball vape for one crazy huge bowl. I want tasty, efficient, potent hits throughout the day.

This is all subjective though. If people want larger formats then it's quite understandable.
 

invertedisdead

PHASE3
Manufacturer
For day in-day out use I prefer the 16MM format personally for my style of vaping. But I’ve been vaping since 2012 so I’ve had a lot of time to figure out exactly what kind of a hit I’m looking for.

I’m always reminding folks that my first seven versions were 20MM. If you read the reviews on my site, most people using the ZX as their daily driver are coming from larger ball vapes.

Although now that the ZXL is out some have added that to the starting lineup. I’ve had multiple customers send me before and after photos of their vape station, telling me that the ZX + ZXL retired their entire fleet.

It’s a nice feeling that even with all the competition my work still stands out. I still remember in December of 2019, thinking to myself - do I just buy another Flowerpot - a WeedEater; or do I finally create this purpose built, coil powered, ruby ball vape I’ve been thinking about for two years? I believe that choice changed the industry forever.

I do think there’s a perception problem that the 16MM is not going to be “strong/big enough” as people compare the bowl size to a portable and think that’s all there is to it. For example even my TM2 actually has a larger bowl than my ZX.

I’m confident the ZX has more power on demand than any portable can offer and I demonstrate that often when showing the faster extraction rate of the ZX.

People are always telling me how they find the ZX their favorite out of all of their other larger ball vapes.

Although now that the ZXL is out some have added that to the starting lineup. I’ve had multiple customers send me before and after photos of their vape station, telling me that the ZX + ZXL retired their entire fleet.

Here’s a few recent family photos sent to me in the last week or two from happy Z Tribe members!




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@invertedisdead Just an FYI with some more feedback based on your last post: I would love the dynavapish device to be similarly sized & induction heatable. Also...saving my pennies for the 25mm wireless.

Yes and yes!

Also the 25MM wireless is going to be wild, I’m super stoked about how it’s looking, and I came up with something for it yesterday that’s going to make it even more next level. Definitely getting excited to show off some new P3 experiences!
 

coolbreeze

Well-Known Member
Also the 25MM wireless is going to be wild, I’m super stoked about how it’s looking, and I came up with something for it yesterday that’s going to make it even more next level. Definitely getting excited to show off some new P3 experiences!
Thanks, man! When you're excited, we're excited. The Zs are always turned on and turning me on at my house, I still can't get over how much I enjoy them. Got my 25mm axial coil set up and ready, can't wait to try the pen!
 

Timps27

Feel like I’m winnin’ when I’m losin’ again
perception problem that the 16MM is not going to be “strong/big enough”

QFT, when I want a bigger hit I use my Sticky Brick bowl with ZX. It holds as much or more than the bigger ball vape bowls, and ZX has never hesitated to produce thick, milky white hits that go far beyond my lung capacity.

As I’ve said before I assume @invertedisdead got the same deal from the guy downstairs as James Brown did.

 
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