Discontinued Pax Vaporizer by Ploom

[ILoveCollege]

Mr. Krinkle, I was having this issue but just with friends at my place.. thus why I have entertained the idea of getting something else as a home unit and using the pax on the go or for a personal sesh because it seems that I know how it works and a few other friends get it but not many do, so I have to explain all the time what happens..

Also I had a sesh with 3 people (myself included) and the Pax started to not produce vapor anymore and the other guys were like "oh it is out already" with my response being "well we maybe packed .25g into the oven.. so between the three of us that is less than a tenth of a g.." It is hard for outsiders to understand..

 

[ludwig]

Mr. Krinkle, I was having this issue but just with friends at my place.. thus why I have entertained the idea of getting something else as a home unit and using the pax on the go or for a personal sesh because it seems that I know how it works and a few other friends get it but not many do, so I have to explain all the time what happens..

Also I had a sesh with 3 people (myself included) and the Pax started to not produce vapor anymore and the other guys were like "oh it is out already" with my response being "well we maybe packed .25g into the oven.. so between the three of us that is less than a tenth of a g.." It is hard for outsiders to understand..

I have noticed Pax is a bit lacking when it is in group seshs- Thats why im gonna try to use the party mode when im in a group instead of using the temepratures and hopefully it ll produce more vapor per hit so it functions like a pipe instead of taking forever like it usually does!

 

[Mr.Krinkle]

My issue wasnt with the vapor production, it was that it kept having the temp light issue even after cleaning, a lot of times I can get the temp light to come on if I press the mouthpiece towards me instead of away from me, which I think people were accidentially doing. I kept having to yell "push it away from you!" which makes no goddamn sense to anyone (hahaha) so I just gave up. The biggest problem was that we were around loud music so it was nearly impossible to give clear directions over the music. I had no problems in the campsite with it, because I could explain easily how to hit it without the temp light coming on. It was nice at first though, I got a lot of mixed reviews, a lot of the older folks were the ones that loved it, which was the opposite of what I was expecting.

 

[Hexi]

I brought mine to a fest this week, had cleaned it spotless before I left home, 2 days into the fest the mouthpiece locked shut! (resin) I had cleaning kits with me, I gave it a quick pipe cleaning, and two sessions later it locked shut again. So, unfortunately, these are not great for fests. One other thing, the temp light issue kept coming up, I'd pass it to someone who wasn't aware of the issue, and they wouldn't get a hit. It sucked trying to explain to people the solution (pressing the mouthpiece away from the light) A lot of times I just stopped passing it because it was not working for anyone but me. I ended up switching to doobers and a glass piece by saturday and sunday. These are not at all ideal for fests unless you aren't a heavy smoker.

This is what I'm talking about. A perfectly cleaned pax, a short time later, 'locked mouthpiece'. This is a known issue that impacts a lot of owners. Replacing the MP and getting lube or cleaning it is a temporary workaround. Not a permanent solution.

 

[Mr.Krinkle]

This is what I'm talking about. A perfectly cleaned pax, a short time later, 'locked mouthpiece'. This is a known issue that impacts a lot of owners. Replacing the MP and getting lube or cleaning it is a temporary workaround. Not a permanent solution.

yep, and I was thinking the heat would have helped it (the winter wasnt kind on her) but it seems the heat maybe much worse for it than the cold. No idea why really, but thats my guess. That and keep in mind I was at a fest, so it was being used a lot more than at home. It does put out massive clouds though, I dont understand how people arnt killing themselves with this on high (people are reporting weak hits on here) I get bigger hits off this than I do off a fat doob.

 

[Hexi]

Yeah I certainly can't fault the Pax in terms of hits/clouds. On high, I could not handle it for more than 1/3 a true hit.

 

[grokit]

Didn't I read that the mouthpiece underwent a revision, did this help with these issues?

 

[Hexi]

Didn't I read that the mouthpiece underwent a revision, did this help with these issues?

For about 10 uses it did for me. Now having the same issue, stuck mouthpiece (even after extensive cleaning and drying, even tho the unit was never really 'dirty' by any stretch.) The unit will not accept a charge either, so mine is completely non-functional at this point. Need to start up another customer service session to see if I can get it resolved, a new mouthpiece and lube drops didn't do the trick.

 

[JC Evans]

HELP ME PLEASE! I have tried every fix on the internet for the "temp light issue"! I use the official pax cleaning kit and clean it every 3 uses (when I can get a use). Sometimes it is somewhat ok, and only happens a little bit, but most of the time It doesn't work at all. Blowing on either end of the mouthpiece rarely offers a very temporary fix, wiggling the mouthpiece also, sometimes, works a little bit. Overall I just can't get it to work! I emailed ploom and they have not responded yet, it has been 2 days. I heard the warranty lasts 10 years, but I also read that the warranty doesn't transfer to a secondary buyer, It was a gift to me so I do not have the receipt. When the pax works it so awesome and I wouldn't want anything else, but when I get the temp light, (which is most of the time) it sucks. Someone please help me, I am desperate, I just want my pax to work! If you don't have a full solution, even say a temporary fix for it!

 

[zyzz]

I've done a lot of reading on this forum (thanks to all contributing posters!) and ive decided I want to buy a pax. Where will I get the best deal yet retain the warranty? And I am aware that no one is selling under $250 but maybe somewhere that will give me extras or something would be good. Thanks!

edit: also, does anyone know of a site that sells the pax and also carries e-juice (for vape pens)?

 

[Mr.Krinkle]

I've done a lot of reading on this forum (thanks to all contributing posters!) and ive decided I want to buy a pax. Where will I get the best deal yet retain the warranty? And I am aware that no one is selling under $250 but maybe somewhere that will give me extras or something would be good. Thanks!

edit: also, does anyone know of a site that sells the pax and also carries e-juice (for vape pens)?

Get it in person at a head shop if you can, the one near me sells them for 200 when they have their sales

 

[Hexi]

emailed ploom and they have not responded yet, it has been 2 days. !

Try their live-chat on the website for ploom, that gave me a fast response the first time.

 

[grokit]

If I wanted to be covered for 10 years on this thing I would buy it direct from pax. A warranty is only as good as the place that offers it, and pax has been pretty great about repair/replacements if you buy it from them. I believe it has been stated that they do not honor this warranty if you buy it elsewhere. The local head shop or web retailer could be gone in a few years anyways so direct from pax is the best bet.

 

[salivape]

If I wanted to be covered for 10 years on this thing I would buy it direct from pax. A warranty is only as good as the place that offers it, and pax has been pretty great about repair/replacements if you buy it from them. I believe it has been stated that they do not honor this warranty if you buy it elsewhere. The local head shop or web retailer could be gone in a few years anyways so direct from pax is the best bet.

Ploom could also be gone in a few years but I do agree that buying direct is always the safest bet

 

[Deadshort480]

Ploom could also be gone in a few years but I do agree that buying direct is always the safest bet

We could all be gone in a few years! Your best bet is to buy directly from the manufacturer if you want the easiest time getting anything replaced under warranty.

 

[jeff]

This is what I'm talking about. A perfectly cleaned pax, a short time later, 'locked mouthpiece'. This is a known issue that impacts a lot of owners. Replacing the MP and getting lube or cleaning it is a temporary workaround. Not a permanent solution.

Well again many of us have never experienced a locked mouth piecer. And I am not sure i agree it is a temporary work around. Weed and its smoke/vapor us very resinous and sticky, especially if you have the goods. So you have to clean stuff. Lets say the year is 1997 and jeff is hitting his dugout, he cashes that bat, packs a new one and then uggh he can't pull anymore it is clogged with Resin. What do I do panic? No i clean the thing. All pipes and vapes need to be cleaned to maintain proper fucntioning and delicious taste. This is life! I fail to see the big deal about having to clean the thing!

yep, and I was thinking the heat would have helped it (the winter wasnt kind on her) but it seems the heat maybe much worse for it than the cold. No idea why really, but thats my guess. That and keep in mind I was at a fest, so it was being used a lot more than at home. It does put out massive clouds though, I dont understand how people arnt killing themselves with this on high (people are reporting weak hits on here) I get bigger hits off this than I do off a fat doob.

No kidding. I kind of wish there was a temp between low and med. Medium gives me huge choking massive hits. Low though is a lil to low for me

 

[TheTurtleClub]

Are people still having such serious problems with their mouthpieces? My PAX is my daily driver and I clean it once a month if even that. I get the temp light issue frequently, and when I do, I simply wiggle the mouthpiece between the screw and light sides of the piece. Voila. If I lean or push the mouthpiece to a particular side it generally comes back but I quickly notice, push it the other way and a few heat up moments later I'm in business. It honestly doesn't bother me that much.

 

[Hexi]

Weed and its smoke/vapor us very resinous and sticky, especially if you have the goods. So you have to clean stuff.

Oh you have to clean it? Well then...

Are people still having such serious problems with their mouthpieces? My PAX is my daily driver and I clean it once a month if even that.


I get the temp light issue frequently, a
.

...

mod note: Please avoid back-to-back posts, use Edit instead. Two posts merged.

 

[TheTurtleClub]

...

I see how that could be misleading. When I cleaned it frequently I found that it dirtied quickly, and I am too lazy to clean it on such a rigorous schedule. However, in my experience the temp light is a non-issue as it is so easily corrected. Temp light sticks, wiggle mouthpiece for a second and it's fixed. I'm trying to figure out whether or not the severity is worse with other units or I am just a lot less sensitive than other posters.

 

[Hexi]

I see how that could be misleading. When I cleaned it frequently I found that it dirtied quickly, and I am too lazy to clean it on such a rigorous schedule. However, in my experience the temp light is a non-issue as it is so easily corrected. Temp light sticks, wiggle mouthpiece for a second and it's fixed. I'm trying to figure out whether or not the severity is worse with other units or I am just a lot less sensitive than other posters.

Here is what I gather from reading about it, owning it etc..

• Most PAX either have no issue or no issues are reported
• Some get the "temp light issue" (and it stays at the level you mentioned, wiggle to workaround)
• Some progress from 'temp light issue' to 'temp light issue...charging issue'
• Some progress from 'temp light issue' to 'stuck mouthpiece issue'
• From TLI and SMI it can progress further to can not charge won't get unstuck.

No one has any stats, but we do know that Ploom has pretty robust CS agents, so obviously there are enough issues that live chat, a replacement mouthpiece, a video on cleaning it, specific branded lube drops... etc.. has emerged.

We all agree that it's a known fact that all mfg devices have a failure rate, and that failure rate varies wildly depending on the item. We all agree that not all Pax owners have problems, and most are probably fine.

The touchy part is when people accuse others of being the problem, and not the device. It's a bit silly, but it's natural to blame the user. Blaming the user is fun, easy and requires no further analysis. So I get why people say "you have to clean it" or "you're abusing it" etc...

But the reality is what it is. Some, many, not most , who knows how many... Pax owners have similar or the same problem.

When my mouthpiece perma-stuck I was confused, as it was clean. Searched around, and within seconds found a video of someone demoing the exact same problem, with a clean Pax.

So that's 2 of us, + the people in this thread who have issues. Widespread? Who knows. But it's not just us "dirty abusers" and "complainers"

 

[TheTurtleClub]

I have encountered a mouthpiece that has refused to stick down before, however I purchased two when I first got the device, because I am just that lazy. I clean the stuck one and use a clean one. I have yet to have one of them become permanently stuck, and I generally take responsibility for the occurrence as I was well aware of the recommendations of regularly cleaning the unit before I had even purchased it. Mind you, I'm not trying to take shots at anyone here and I understand that individual experiences will vary. However, in this particular instance I am still very much surprised that the overall experience has seemingly been so negative. Especially when considering that my outright and near deliberate negligence towards any sort of maintenance has caused very little in the way of negative consequences.

 

[Hexi]

What you are reading and experiencing may surprise you, but it's actually 100% normal.
1. You are experiencing a defect, but it's not severe
2. It's not a big deal to you
3. Your issue has not progressed to anything worse
4. /end

That's kinda how it goes for most people with issues that are not game-stoppers. Some of us were cleaning the PAX every 2-3 sessions hoping to get it back to how it was new. You only clean it 1x per month...

That being said, you are experiencing a defect with your system. It is not operating within the parameters spelled out in the user manual. When mine was acting like yours, I was in the same boat. Working around it, cleaning it, replacing the mouthpiece, swapping mouthpieces etc... And then I encountered the no charging issue compounded on top of the sticky mouthpiece and temp light issue.

I see this kind of thing all the time, in a totally different context, where I work. In fact we have entire teams dedicated to investigating failures, driving down to root cause, and eventually fixing the issue. Sometimes finding a big problem that we didn't expect...

95% of those investigations start with issues that at first glance seem like minor defects/annoyances. And only like 10% or less of users ever report any issues, even if they experience problems, they usually just move on to another process, or wait until a co-worker reports the issue etc...

We see this all the time with surveys, we survey people, and we get a ton more complaints about problems than we do in our actual problem tracking system.... we look at the data and realize that vast majority of people have no problems or don't even notice them or just don't care AND the majority of people that do have problems never report them formally.

 

[Deadshort480]

I will say that user error is the cause of most problems.

There are issues that can not be overcome like the blue or orange flasher, the non charger, and the non heater.

There are issues that can be overcome with extensive and regular cleaning like a sluggish mouthpiece, extremely restricted draw, and the temperature light issue.

There are issues that can be overcome with being very careful and thorough while cleaning. You can avoid a sticky temperature button by not getting ISO near it at all during cleaning. You can avoid the sticky/sluggish/stuck mouthpiece or temperature light issue with regular cleaning of mouthpiece in and out, cleaning of the spring and spring area, making sure that all ISO is wiped away or blown away using an air compressor. Any ISO left over in any crevices will most likely have some sort of resin in it. This resin will cause issues when the ISO evaporates.

The devices can be finicky, this is a known fact on FC, but almost every issue known to date (other than the blue or orange flasher, non charger, and non heater) has been because someone's PAX wasn't quite as clean as they thought or they were careless in their cleaning.

I've had mine for almost a full year now and after I sent back my blue flasher, I haven't had a single issue with mine except for the ocassional temp light. Yes, the temp light can be fixed by pushing the mouthpiece one way or another to create contact. I use mine daily, clean it weekly, and I'm very careful and thorough with my cleaning.

The PAX is a champ.

 

[zyzz]

I just spoke to a Ploom rep. The lubricant is 100% propylene glycol. As for wipes it seems you can just get 70% alcohol wipes (or a higher % if you want) and get some of the Zen pipe cleaners (the hard ones) and you have a cleaning kit for $20 that will last you a while.. : )

Get it in person at a head shop if you can, the one near me sells them for 200 when they have their sales

I just spoke to the Ploom chat person and they basically said it should be sold for their $249.99 MSRP...

 

[Hexi]

I will say that user error is the cause of most problems.


after I sent back my blue flasher, I haven't had a single issue with mine except for the ocassional temp light.

User error is the most commonly assigned cause to all problems, ever. 89% of the time it's the incorrect assignment of cause, and generally a contributing cause at best.

As far as the PAX goes, if you are following the user manual, you are not committing a user error. By definition.

So even someone who crowns the device the champ, had a flashing light error AND has temp light issues.

As you described, the iso evaps, leaving resin, causing the sticky. That is not a user error, that is a design flaw as the root cause of the problem.

Further investigation of the design and the symptoms reveals other items, like the fact that the PAX is charged upside down, gravity, liquid ISO, then evap... and we can see an obvious failure path.

Think about it this way, back in the old days ATM machines would sometimes spit out money, and then your ATM card. A lot of people would forget the card, because they got the money (Banks tracked this, replacing cards was very expensive for greedy banks, so they looked into it).

User error right? Lets analyze. Typically ATMs now will give you back your card first then the cash. Because you are far less likely to forget the cash, as that was the reason you are using the ATM in the first place. Having it give the card back first, has resulted in far less cards left in the ATM as a problem.

So did the users stop committing errors? They changed the process and design, which addressed the root cause, and that in turn reduced the errors.

RCA and Quality system methodologies are vital in MFG. PAX is a v1 product, it is likely that v2 will address most of the defects because that reduces Customer Service cost.

Calling it 'user error' would actual hurt the brand long term if that was their plan (doesn't sound like it is, my CS session never even touched on any user error) as that would imply it's complicated to use and maintain. Like owning a BMW... And would not lead to any improvements.


XBOX 360 RROD is another well known story of "user error" that really wasn't anything at all to do with user error, even tho that was where the blame initially went.