Obama's respons (to the F'ing raids in Cali this week)

[Vicki]

If you can vape legally then don't do it. Period.

I'm willing to bet that if the US became stringent about illegals, and afforded them NO privileges, unless they are legal, they would stop coming. I used to feel differently, but in recent years, I changed my mind. I know a lot of illegals come here just for the handouts, and that infuriates me. When my husband lost his job due to the recession, we applied for assistance and were denied. While those illegals got all the assistance they wanted ON OUR TAXES! No, screw that. DO IT LEGALLY or go home!!

I'm big about paying your own way to make it, NOT sponge off the system!!

 

[WatTyler]

Why not hang a few from the street lights as well?

I see it as a human duty to help feed and care for those amongst us who are hungry or sick, and I will offer it to any such human being at my door. It's not really a privilege to be taken away.

I don't really think anyone becomes an illegal immigrant just for the meagre benefits they may be able to access. That's just vilifying them. They're all chasing an American dream too, and pretty desperate for any other alternatives. If you really think it's that good for them, ask yourself if you'd happily trade places.

 

[vorrange]

Vicki i get what you are saying. It must be so frustrating and so infuriating to be denied assistance when you needed and earned it and others get it without earning it.

The US already has strict VISA laws, strict tourist visas and airport security, cameras everywhere, control almost to the point of paranoia. You have to draw the line somewhere.
If ilegals are afforded no privileges and still have a better life in the US than in Mexico they will stay here as i think would be the case.

I think you should go the opposite way, which is harder but it is fairer. You should try to help everybody who is in need.

The inbalance is not between you not getting assistance and they are getting because overall, you are a bit better than them nonetheless. The imbalance is between those who have so much they don't know how to spend it at the cost of everyone else who works for a fraction of a few.

EDITED (typical non native speaker error, condone instead of condemn. ) : This is what is most infuriating to me and it is most unfair. I don't condemn the actions of the helpless, i condemn the actions of the ones who choose not to be helpfull.

(Thanks Vicki )

 

[Vicki]

Vicki i get what you are saying. It must be so frustrating and so infuriating to be denied assistance when you needed and earned it and others get it without earning it.

The US already has strict VISA laws, strict tourist visas and airport security, cameras everywhere, control almost to the point of paranoia. You have to draw the line somewhere.
If ilegals are afforded no privileges and still have a better life in the US than in Mexico they will stay here as i think would be the case.

I think you should go the opposite way, which is harder but it is fairer. You should try to help everybody who is in need.

The inbalance is not between you not getting assistance and they are getting because overall, you are a bit better than them nonetheless. The imbalance is between those who have so much they don't know how to spend it at the cost of everyone else who works for a fraction of a few.

This is what is most infuriating to me and it is most unfair. I don't condone the actions of the helpless, i condone the actions of the ones who choose not to be helpfull.

I don't think you mean "condone." But I get you, nonetheless.

 

[Venomous]

Smoking herb and sneaking into a country are two entirely different things. You're correct, politicians make up these benefit structures... But do you want to know which party does gives away the house to illegals? Democrats.. Why? To get the Latino vote.

If California followed the way arizona runs their immigration, we wouldn't be in such a budget crisis. I worked in ca prisons and saw the illegals who were locked up for drug smuggling. They were treated 100x better here than if they were incarcerated in Mexico. Because of that, there is absolutely no deterent for them not to do it again. Many return after their deportation process begins 45 days before discharge.

Let's take ca's dream act, Which was signed into law by democrat gov, Jerry brown in oct 2011. Brown, allowed tuition rates to be increased yet again by 12% because brown cut university budgets by 1.3 billion. This allows fewer seats in each class which will now be filled by illegals here on a free ride. There is no minium gpa needed to qualify either.Brown said the dream act for 2012 will only cost ca $13 million. Umm ok, so if we slashed university funding by 1.3 billion, not to mention the millions in public schools, how can we give 13 million away for free to illegal aliens? The kicker here is a senate assemblyman came up with a final number of $40 million the ca dream act would cost us in 2012...This is nothing more than discrimination against deserving US citizens, California citizens and LEGAL immigrants here who have HAD their tuition fees increased Or their financial aid reduced by a significant amount. Students are dropping out left and right now because of the increase in fees.

The reversal of the ca dream act should be on novembers ballot in 2012. I know several registered democrats who signed the petition to get it back on the ballot and voted out. We were shopping at the outlet stores one day and their was a petition booth setup. It's the first time I've seen democrats and repubs unanimously agree on it being wrong, It's that serious here.

People are beginning to wake up to what the economic impact this has on their own children. then you have Obama trying to force this into federal law, which is completely asinine.

 

[turk]

...I find the irony interesting ...the indigenous people welcomed the settlers who came here. ...even facilitating and assisting in their survival...if they would have shown the settlers the kind of hospitality we want to show them now...this conversation wouldn't be happening. ...

 

[Venomous]

love, not hate

Well if this was their homeland again, they would be sneaking into Oregon because again, Mexico is a shitty place to be... Mexicos landscape is just as beautiful as ca...

 

[turk]

Well if this was their homeland again, they would be sneaking into Oregon because again, Mexico is a shitty place to be... Mexicos landscape is just as beautiful as ca...

...not sure you can say that...if ca and arizona/mew mex etc...were part of mexico....who knows how that would play out...

 

[WatTyler]

The kicker here is a senate assemblyman came up with a final number of $40 million the ca dream act would cost us in 2012...

Still peanuts.

How much was NASA's budget last year? Fun as space exploration is, people matter more to me.

 

[turk]

...I concur any investment in people is a positive thing...as far as I'm concerned....better than building another bomber...we hope...we don't use...

 

[vorrange]

Peanuts.

How much was NASA's budget last year? Fun as space exploration is, people matter more to me.

At lets not talk about money spent in war. Or saving banks and distributing bonus for the "excelent job" at the end of the fiscal year or when they leave. From the same corporations who in return fund elections, on both parties. Health, Education and Social Care should be the priorites of any government and protected from cuts at any costs.

 

[t-dub]

You are never going to displace the military/industrial/intelligence/correctional complex that has taken hold of Amerika. Welcome to modern fascism, long live the scientific dictatorship, which will provide "solutions" (final solutions) for all of these problems. You'll see . . .

 

[turk]

...after years of am radio and fox news we have forgotten why gov't exists in the 1st place...they have demonized government, government programs, and the folks who work in government...government plays an important role and it's NOT just the collection of taxes....or the starting of a war...on the other side of the world...government and government regulation plays an important role to what is a functional democracy...when government doesn't do it's job...we have the banking crises...the housing bust...and increased corporate power...

 

[t-dub]

turk, the system is corrupt, possibly beyond saving, at least in its present form. Looked at the debt clock lately? 16 trillion coming fast . . . the payment curve is going to go parabolic soon and everyone is going to get a lesson on compound interest. The states are in no better shape for the most part.

http://usdebtclock.org/

Big government is not the solution. If it was then Stalin and Mao wouldn't have murdered over 100 million of their own people, most during peacetime. Radicals love to tear down but rarely provide solutions.

Needs>resources=rationing pure and simple.

If you are in power you get to decide how this is done. This means the government is constantly picking winners and losers in the markets, that's why they aren't free and why they don't function organically.

The human suffering these people have to go through is terrible, we need to be sensitive to that and alleviate what suffering we can but to think that government can fix it all, or should, just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[turk]

...yes the system is corrupt...the two parties couldn't give a shit less...fuck the debt clock...the only time their concerned with the "debt" is when you have it.....not them...maybe if you got g.e., apple,the banks, the energy comp...the gas comp. to actually PAY TAXES...then maybe ....just maybe I'll worry about the debt...(throw in the churches too, they should PAY)...until then we're just whistling dixie...

 

[t-dub]

Yes more taxes is obviously the answer . . . NOT . . . turk no one makes enough to pay for it all. Until the military/industrial/spy/pharma/prison/govt machine is broke(n) the status quo won't stop, no matter who is in power, because both parties serve the same masters . . .

 

[turk]

g.e. paid no taxes last year (look it up )...alll the corp's are paying little to no taxes...the church pays no taxes...the corps are SITTING on billions in profits......they have the money...

 

[t-dub]

Terk, money has no intrinsic value at all, in fact, the US dollar is a unit of debt, created out of nothing, and lent to us with interest due, in gold, to the private federal reserve every year. Look to the masters of the scheme to understand where the power lies. The money is a tool, a hypnotic economic grease for the masses, so the slaves can be self maintaining to some degree and more easily controlled. Constitutional currency would not have allowed this to happen since the government wouldn't have had an unlimited checkbook. After 1913, they didn't have to ask us for money any more. The theft of our country was basically complete way back then although few noticed.

 

[Venomous]

Well the only remedy I see Is this... Invest in military to protect the USA, not military technology to fight war on foreign soil. We really have no business at this point fighting terrorism or shall I say, radical groups on their soil. If they come here, thats different. The needed technology aside from ntelligence isn't needed. We aren't in a cold war any longer.

Do something about USA companies holding their money off shore. Find a tax rate that works and get the money back in our system.

We also need to invest in our children. We also need to help people out. Hell they gave a shitload of money to the banks and car companies. Im sure that money would of helped many people here. They should also start allowing people start small businesses here and giving them that assistance. If you want to stimulate the economy, this is one of the best ways to do it.

If technology is being done and manf'd in china, there needs to be an offshore tax. Although we can't move a lot of this technogy Back to the states, there is manf'd we can bring back like furiniture,steel etc, that we can.

We're in a world of hurt here and we need to get our shit together. Giving away millions to illegals can be at th bottom of the list. Our politicians are full of shit and corrupt. Something drastic needs to happen for the needed change.

 

[t-dub]

Oh the military technology is coming home alright Venomous, just not in the way we expect it to . . .

Gov’t Spies in our Skies. FAA Issues Drone Permits.



"I warned you months ago that the Drones were coming to a government entity near you.
This week, the FAA is issuing permits to local law enforcement, US Military, universities and federal agencies across the country, granting permission for drones to be used in US airspace. Thanks to a Freedom of Information lawsuit filed by The Electronic Frontier Foundation, the FAA released this preliminary list:
Arlington Police Deparment, Arlington, TX
California Department of Forestry & Fire Protection
City of Herington, KS
City of Houston Police Department
City of North Little Rock, AR Police Department
Cornell University
DARPA
Eastern Gateway Community College, Steubenville, OH
Gadsden Police Department-Narcotics, Gadsden, AL
GA Tech Police Department
GA Tech Research Institute
Kansas State University
Mesa County Sheriff’s Office, Grand Junction, CO
Miami-Dade County Police Department
Middle Tennessee State University
MS Department of Marine Services
MS State University
Montgomery County Sheriff’s Department, Montgomery County, AL
NASA Ames Research Center, Moffet Field, CA
New Mexico Institute of Mining & Technology
New Mexico State University, La Crucus, NM
Nicholls State University, Thibodaux, LA
Ogden Police Department, Ogden, UT
Ohio University, Athens, OH
Orange County Sheriff’s Office, Orange, TX
Polk County Sheriff’s Office, Winter Haven, FL
Seattle Police Department
Texas A & M University, Corpus Christi, TX
Texas Department of Public Safety, Austin, TX
Texas State University-San Marcos, San Marcos, TX
University of Alaska, Fairbanks, AK
University of Colorado, Boulder, CO
University of Connecticut, Storrs, CT
University of Florida, Gainsville, FL
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor, Ann Arbor, MI
Utal State University, Logan UT
Virginia Commonwealth University, Richmond, VA
VA Tech, Blacksburg, VA
Washington State Department of Transportation, Olympia, WA
University of Wisconsin-Madison, Madison, WI
US Airforce
US Army
Department of Homeland Security
Department of Energy, Idaho Falls, ID
National Energy Technology, Morgontown, WV
Department of Agriculture-US Forest Service
US Forest Service
US Department of Agriculture
US Navy
NOAA"

 

[WatTyler]

Big government is not the solution. If it was then Stalin and Mao wouldn't have murdered over 100 million of their own people, most during peacetime. Radicals love to tear down but rarely provide solutions.

Stalin and Mao aren't really good examples of functional government, which I think is what Turk is highlighting. It does seem to me that this is the first thing Americans think of when you do talk about gubment, but it shouldn't be- it's a result of a generation of right wing propaganda.

Yes more taxes is obviously the answer . . . NOT . . .

Taxes sure are part of the answer. Americans certainly could change the system and do more to collectively try to make life better and pay more tax, but it's the biggest fear. In total the USA only taxes something like 26% total of it's GDP, compared to 35% average in the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development, and only Mexico, Turkey and Chile have lower taxation than the USA.

Until the military/industrial/spy/pharma/prison/govt machine is broke(n) the status quo won't stop, no matter who is in power, because both parties serve the same masters . . .

Hasn't Obama tried to add a healthcare element in there? But met stiff resistance from the puppets of the legal and insurance industry, as well as a bitter and resentful middle class?

Gov’t Spies in our Skies. FAA Issues Drone Permits.

I can see a lot of sense in these being used for research instead of a manned aircraft and all the associated costs. Things like the NOAA, forestry and agriculture departments- there's little wrong with remote sensing of the natural environment and it's not far removed from the satellites already up there, but it's unsettling when it's watching people -and I say this from the CCTV capital of the world. It can however make for some very interesting TV viewing

 

[t-dub]

Stalin and Mao aren't really good examples of functional government, which I think is what Turk is highlighting. It does seem to me that this is the first thing Americans think of when you do talk about gubment, but it shouldn't be- it's a result of a generation of right wing propaganda.

People thought it was pretty functional at the time and China is beig held up as the model for the future. Interesting to see the nazi party comming back in Greece . . . my opinions have nothng to do with right wing propaganda, the graves of the dead speak for themselves.

Taxes sure are part of the answer. Americans certainly could change the system and do more to collectively try to make life better and pay more tax, but it's the biggest fear. In total the USA only taxes something like 26% total of it's GDP, compared to 35% average in the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development, and only Mexico, Turkey and Chile have lower taxation than the USA.

Wat, I pay tax on my income from my commercial property twice now because the way the laws are written. If you add up all the state, local, federal, and all the other fees and bs we pay it is way more than what you are saying. We are being taxed out of existence. Easily OVER 55% of my income goes in taxes alone.

Hasn't Obama tried to add a healthcare element in there? But met stiff resistance from the puppets of the legal and insurance industry, as well as a bitter and resentful middle class?

And if the personal mandate goes through you will be forced by the government to buy a product, from a private company they approve, and if you don't you will be a criminal. This will cost everyone, like it or not, several thousand dollars per year to be a citizen in good standing in the USA. This is a fundamental change in the relationship we have with our government and it can not stand.

 

[WatTyler]

If you add up all the state, local, federal, and all the other fees and bs we pay it is way more than what you are saying. We are being taxed out of existence. Easily OVER 55% of my income goes in taxes alone.

The figures don't lie. Total taxation revenue as a percentage of GDP. Maybe they're taxing you harder than they are Apple Corp.?

http://www.oecd.org/document/60/0,3746,en_2649_37427_1942460_1_1_1_37427,00.html

This is a fundamental change in the relationship we have with our government and it can not stand.

I must confess I don't know much of the detail of particular proposal, but you're arguing there about the principle rather than the detail. There must be a fundamental change in the relationship you have with government, if you can accept that it needs to move away from the "military/industrial/spy/pharma/prison/govt machine"

 

[t-dub]

The figures don't lie. Total taxation revenue as a percentage of GDP. Maybe they're taxing you harder than they are Apple Corp.?

Of course I'm paying more than Apple, I'm a slave, they are part of the fascist machine . . they have slave labor in China and lawyers . . . my god how am I to compete?

I must confess I don't know much of the detail of particular proposal, but you're arguing there about the principle rather than the detail. There must be a fundamental change in the relationship you have with government, if you can accept that it needs to move away from the "military/industrial/spy/pharma/prison/govt machine"

Universal healthcare is a great idea but you can't do it the way they are trying, its wrong, the ends DO NOT justify the means Wat, I hope you know that.

 

[WatTyler]

Universal healthcare is a great idea but you can't do it the way they are trying, its wrong, the ends DO NOT justify the means Wat, I hope you know that.

I guess this is the fundamental difference. I think that when the ends are important- i.e saving lives - and the only failing in the 'means' for it is financial disregard (NOT financial inability) then it's time to act. You have to start somewhere and work to improve it. Sort out the detail as you learn. But don't use petty financial squabbles as an excuse for inaction while people get sicker.

to add- and it surely won't be perfect. I don't think there's such thing as a perfect and efficient public health care system anywhere, but IMO it's civilised and better than seeing the alternative which may be more financially efficient, but is less efficient at benefiting society and humanity.