MAD Heaters - Innovative Dynavap Accessories

JohnWaltz

New Member
Are there any physical photos of this? Or is it still just vaporware being pushed back more and more?

Would love to see an actual prototype, and not just digital versions
 

cybrguy

Wear A Fucking Mask!

Couple pages back, dude...

2-jpg.13114



There is a photo of the Sense back there too, but it isn't quite as close to release...
 
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JohnWaltz

New Member

Couple pages back, dude...

2-jpg.13114



There is a photo of the Sense back there too, but it isn't quite as close to release...
I wasn't asking about the stem or jar, didn't even realize this was for those, I'm here for the induction heater that seems to just be vaporware.

The stems and jars look cool though.
 

kokolokokolokon

Active Member
Love that stem :rockon:
And that IH (wich i Hope to be the beginning of a new induction heater age)
Even the jar...
Can't wait to see what they improved ...and get new toys 💸💸
 
kokolokokolokon,
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Finn2

New Member
I can only see a couple features missing from this being the absolute perfect induction heater for me in every way (1 software, 1 hardware).

This is my first post on this site so forgive any formatting issues.

I would like to preface this by saying thank you @Brenyo and the rest of your team for your hard work designing this device. It is extremely well done and you are doing great work! To me the replaceable 18650s really make this a consumer oriented device, its amazing and thank you for doing this. Although there are a few people who were commenting about extended warrantee's etc, personally as long as you have replacement parts available (for custom pieces) or your support is open to user repairs I see no issues with not having a lifetime warrantee. (Personally I love hex screws, specifically 1.5mm hex with a metric thread, instead of Philips for repairs but as long as its screws and not adhesives for opening the device then I have no complaints).

I have read through all the posts on this thread and I do have a few comments to make. First about software, I agree with the comment about an option for relative percentage for the LED indicators. This does make more sense for me since If I set it at 180C I would like it to tell me its ready at 180, however I do have a recommendation for an additional option that would allow for the absolute colours (as planned) and informing the user when they are approaching their own set temp. Why not change the pulsing speed of the led to indicate how close it is to the set temperature? Slow pulsing when its cold going up until it is very fast (almost strobing) just before its ready and finally solid for at temp. You can keep your colour ranges if you like but using the pulsing speed would allow for even colour blind users to tell when it is at/approaching the temperature it is set at. For combustion warning you can use an SOS pattern flashing in red (or just 3 flash, pause, 3 flash).

For user upgradeable firmware, I believe it is definitely worth the cost for allowing this to be done over the USB C port. Even if you only plan on doing major firmware revisions, having a stable bootloader to protect against bricking is essential. You could always have a switch on the inside on the pcb/under the batteries to allow firmware writing. This can help you in cases of random bugs that get through QC, corrupted firmware, or adding features down the line. (Ofc this opens up the option of adding escribe-esk software for programming in profiles in the future but afaik this will not be needed)

Now for the biggest feature request. Either this would have been done during the pcb design process (and is being kept hush hush), or it will be something that could be considered for a future revision/v2. That is, USB-C PD passthrough. This would allow for battery-less desktop operation (although there is the overhead available to also trickle charge batteries) or using it though a power bank that supports high watt USB-C PD. I realize that you are drawing 70W for heating from the batteries, and I am not sure what voltage you are using for the coils, however would efficiency gains from a 20V input allow for use with a 60W+ power supply (20V @ 3.0A)? This would really be the icing on the cake as you can have an AIO desktop/portable IH that's tiny.

My last comment is about those people who really wanted a throughhole so they could adjust the depth. I do not see myself needing this feature and I definitely prefer having a bottom so that every hit is consistent, but for those who feel they need a this I might have a solution. I am not sure how much space the coil takes up however, an option for a future revision would be an adjustable coil. I understand you use the bottom of the hole for temp control (and tbh I do not see myself needing any additional adjustment) so you cant change the physical depth of the device, but why not have a physical slide for the coil? allowing the coil to be moved higher or lower to center the magnetic field on a different area. I realize this is likely not done as the coil would already be taking up the full depth, but incase it is not I thought I would throw this out there.

Again, thank you to Brenyo and the rest of the MAD heaters team for their work on this. Please don't take my comments as negative criticism about your existing designs. You guys have all done amazing work and this is your baby after all, as long as you are proud of it, you have done your job right.
 

Brenyo

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
Hey @Finn2 , welcome to the forum :wave:

Many thanks for your suggestions! :tup:

This does make more sense for me since If I set it at 180C I would like it to tell me its ready at 180, however I do have a recommendation for an additional option that would allow for the absolute colours (as planned) and informing the user when they are approaching their own set temp. Why not change the pulsing speed of the led to indicate how close it is to the set temperature?
The LED is solid on heating and once the temp is reached there are 2 ways that it can indicate that the heating is finished:
1., Keep Hot (naming stc) mode OFF: The LED turns off and the heating stops OR alternatively the LED dims to a low brightness of the set temp colour where it stopped in the cycle.
2., Keep Hot mode ON: The LED starts pulsing of the set temp colour where it stopped in the cycle - and this is where one of the issues is with the pulsing LED, it's already in use before (auto mode standby) and after the heating so it would be confusing.

Both of these should be easy to see and understand for a color blind user in my opinion, they'd just miss out on the heating progress from the LED.


For user upgradeable firmware, I believe it is definitely worth the cost for allowing this to be done over the USB C port. Even if you only plan on doing major firmware revisions, having a stable bootloader to protect against bricking is essential. You could always have a switch on the inside on the pcb/under the batteries to allow firmware writing. This can help you in cases of random bugs that get through QC, corrupted firmware, or adding features down the line. (Ofc this opens up the option of adding escribe-esk software for programming in profiles in the future but afaik this will not be needed)
I agree, we're working on this!


Now for the biggest feature request. Either this would have been done during the pcb design process (and is being kept hush hush), or it will be something that could be considered for a future revision/v2. That is, USB-C PD passthrough. This would allow for battery-less desktop operation (although there is the overhead available to also trickle charge batteries) or using it though a power bank that supports high watt USB-C PD. I realize that you are drawing 70W for heating from the batteries, and I am not sure what voltage you are using for the coils, however would efficiency gains from a 20V input allow for use with a 60W+ power supply (20V @ 3.0A)? This would really be the icing on the cake as you can have an AIO desktop/portable IH that's tiny.
Also a very cool idea!
(and is being kept hush hush)
... that's correct :D
We're planning to do it in a way that I believe is even better than what you had in mind. PD is great, PT isn't in my opinion. It will be an AIO desktop/portable IH.


My last comment is about those people who really wanted a throughhole so they could adjust the depth. I do not see myself needing this feature and I definitely prefer having a bottom so that every hit is consistent, but for those who feel they need a this I might have a solution. I am not sure how much space the coil takes up however, an option for a future revision would be an adjustable coil. I understand you use the bottom of the hole for temp control (and tbh I do not see myself needing any additional adjustment) so you cant change the physical depth of the device, but why not have a physical slide for the coil? allowing the coil to be moved higher or lower to center the magnetic field on a different area. I realize this is likely not done as the coil would already be taking up the full depth, but incase it is not I thought I would throw this out there.
It would be possible to make it like that but it won't work well with the temp control. The program would have to be adjusted along with the coil height, so it would have to know where it's set at currently. There are just not enough benefits to this with a temp control device and it would make it much more complicated and less reliable.




Unfortunately the release of the Revolve and Reload will be delayed once again to around Christmas time. The restriction of electricity use in China will more than double the previously calculated production time for the first and likely second batch as well :bang:
 
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kel

Friends & Family
Hey @Finn2 , welcome to the forum :wave:

Many thanks for your suggestions! :tup:


The LED is solid on heating and once the temp is reached there are 2 ways that it can indicate that the heating is finished:
1., Keep Hot (naming stc) mode OFF: The LED turns off and the heating stops OR alternatively the LED dims to a low brightness of the set temp colour where it stopped in the cycle.
2., Keep Hot mode ON: The LED starts pulsing of the set temp colour where it stopped in the cycle - and this is where one of the issues is with the pulsing LED, it's already in use before (auto mode standby) and after the heating so it would be confusing.

Both of these should be easy to see and understand for a color blind user in my opinion, they'd just miss out on the heating progress from the LED.



I agree, we're working on this!



Also a very cool idea!

... that's correct :D
We're planning to do it in a way that I believe is even better than what you had in mind. PD is great, PT isn't in my opinion. It will be an AIO desktop/portable IH.



It would be possible to make it like that but it won't work well with the temp control. The program would have to be adjusted along with the coil height, so it would have to know where it's set at currently. There are just not enough benefits to this with a temp control device and it would make it much more complicated and less reliable.




Unfortunately the release of the Revolve and Reload will be delayed once again to around Christmas time. The restriction of electricity use in China will more than double the previously calculated production time for the first and likely second batch as well :bang:

This all sounds amazing...

Really sorry about the production delays, I know how frustrating this must be for you. I hope that things can move along as quickly as possible for you, and everyone of course... I trust that everyone understands that this is just the reality of life at the moment.
 
First about software, I agree with the comment about an option for relative percentage for the LED indicators. This does make more sense for me since If I set it at 180C I would like it to tell me its ready at 180
thanks for shouting out the relative LED config, it'd surely be a great feature!
 
lugaschfuckcombustion,

Finn2

New Member
1., Keep Hot (naming stc) mode OFF: The LED turns off and the heating stops OR alternatively the LED dims to a low brightness of the set temp colour where it stopped in the cycle.
2., Keep Hot mode ON: The LED starts pulsing of the set temp colour where it stopped in the cycle - and this is where one of the issues is with the pulsing LED, it's already in use before (auto mode standby) and after the heating so it would be confusing.
Awesome, yeah that works just fine. I was under the impression that the pulsing didnt change when it was ready 🤦‍♂️


PD is great, PT isn't in my opinion
For me Passthrough is a safety thing. I come from drones and working with both LIPO and LI-ion chemistries. Keeping a battery always full is not a good idea. You even get problems when working with smart batteries (including the bms in phones). I know linus tech tips (recently?) covered how they used to use teamviewer to connect to an android phone for 2FAS. The phone was always plugged in. They went through 3 (?) within a year after the batteries kept puffing until the screens came off. They ended up using a phone without a battery for the next while before they changed their 2FAS system.

Allowing for Passthrough means that you will not be damaging the batteries overtime if you keep it plugged in on your desk. Ofc there are other methods which you can use to mitigate the risks of it being plugged in with batteries inside it. Mainly only charging to full once, then not charging the batteries again unless they fall below 3.3v (or 3.6v if you want nominal). Or keeping the batteries charged to nominal if you enable passthrough mode.

Here are a few modes/methods I can think of for doing this:
  • (stock charging mode)
    • When plugging in, check battery voltage,
    • if below 4.1v (or 4.05v) charge to full.
    • Do not charge again unless device falls below 4.0v.
  • (safe charging mode)
    • When plugging in, check battery voltage,
    • if below 4.1v (or 4.05v) charge to full.
    • Do not charge again unless device falls below 3.6v.
  • (normal/charging PT mode - > plug in then press button to enable)
    • Plug in and enable passthrough mode
    • device checks if it will work with the powersupply you have
    • if enabled, do not use battery power for heating
    • charge batteries to 4.2v, do not trickle charge
    • only charge again if batteries fall below 4.0v
  • (safe PT mode - > hold button while plugging in)
    • Battery safety passthrough mode, (check if powersupply can handle it)
    • Plug in device while pressing button to enable
    • Use batteries for heating until they are at 3.6v nominal then keep them there throughout PT (charge when below 3.5v up to 3.7v).
    • Unplugging and replugging will reset to stock charging mode
  • (batteryless PT mode)
    • Plug in without batteries
    • if supported by powersupply PT will run when button pressed to enable
As you can see, if someone wants a quick 'charge and vape' session they would enter charging PT mode. The batteries will still be charged, heating is done solely through passthrough so the batteries are not in a charge discharge loop. Batteries would charge like normal in the stock charging mode

If someone wants it on their desk for a few days, or wants to put it in storage mode / has no intention on taking it with them anywhere, they can use safe PT mode. If they are fully charged then the IH would discharge the batteries like normal until they reach a stable 3.6v nominal, after this passthrough would kick in to keep the batteries at their storage voltage and allowing for desktop use. This will significantly prolong the life of the 18650s if the device is frequently used in passthrough mode. Unplugging the device would leave the batteries at 3.6v (40% charge). If they plug the device back in then normal charging would commence and charge the batteries to 4.2v

If someone wants to externally charge their batteries, or they have no intention of taking the IH with them anywhere, they can then use batteryless PT mode.



It would be possible to make it like that but it won't work well with the temp control. The program would have to be adjusted along with the coil height, so it would have to know where it's set at currently. There are just not enough benefits to this with a temp control device and it would make it much more complicated and less reliable.
I totally agree with this, personally I do not see the point but I was just answering someone else's comment with a possible solution. There are many ways this could be achieved. Although most require moving parts which will always impact reliability over time. A couple of the solutions I have would be:
  • using a linear POT to determine coil height, depending on your temp measuring method it might even work by wiring it in series with the thermistor if you find the right value POT. But this would add a new failure point and IMO its not worth it.
  • Next option for no moving parts would be to actually have 3 coils at different heights and varying the power going to each of them to change where the flux concentration is. You would need to use software to calculate the temp differences ofc and
IMO it is not even worth the design time or added cost of manufacturing to do either of these, but it is technically an option (it would also add thickness) for a future design if there are actual benefits to doing it.

Production delays are always a PITA. For the people who keep wanting to see a "real" unit, or are calling it vaporware there is literally no reason anyone at MAD would do that. They arent taking preorders (If you are @Brenyo put me on the list), and you have no idea about the complexity of manufacturing a full device. Even prototypes are hard to get made. Especially if you have to work with multiple separate factories to ensure the chance of QC reject/clones is low. There are other "temp control IH" which are being made rn, if you notice those companies are based in Shenzhen. If you watched strangeparts on youtube you could see how living there makes it a bit easier to get a prototype made. Especially when you can just go to the factory making the aluminum case for another IH and ask them to make you some with the same tooling.

Brenyo and the MAD crew, sorry to hear about your delays. Hopefully you start getting some prototypes back so you can actually hold your designs in your hands and feel the tangible results of your hard work
 
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Brenyo

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
Here are a few modes/methods I can think of for doing this:
You're getting very close :D These are all good ideas! I've sent you our solution in PM so we can present this feature properly at a later date.
 
Brenyo,
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