Is Brass Safe?

[Purple-Days]

Is that your best shot? Name calling?

What is childish about doing a test? Seems some folks are confused. This may help clear up the questions. The product I tested has Lead. Period, as they say.

BTW I have way more business than I can handle, this has nothing to do with my product or our sales. This is about manufacturers who are 'risk takers'.

 

[lwien]

but overall the thing is rohs compliant, just like yours right?

Is it? It may be, and maybe I missed it 'cause my eyes aren't as good as they used to be, but I looked all over his site and it doesn't state that anywhere.

But just an fyi, I'm an old man and I take pride in acting childish.

 

[the electrician]

it was an observation. youve got popularity on your side and you use it to act however you please

i dont care how much business you have, youre still apparently very bitter about something

but overall the thing is rohs compliant, just like yours right?

Is it? It may be, but I looked all over his site and it doesn't state that anywhere.

so now all you have to do is post it on your website and its true? i hope this continues to drag out to show everyone how ridiculous youre being, its getting pretty tired

 

[Purple-Days]

Breathing through a Lead filled product for a couple of years, from a vape manufacturer who was touting his Lead Free solder at the time of the sale has me a bit peeved. Yep ! Totally pissed off ! After seeing that pink paper today, confirming what was hidden for so long, Pammy is totally pissed too !

 

[lwien]

so now all you have to do is post it on your website and its true? i hope this continues to drag out to show everyone how ridiculous youre being, its getting pretty tired

Ridiculous? Let's see. You stated that his vape is RohS compliant. I said that it wasn't stated as such on his site, implying that your statement may be inaccurate. RohS compliance is a pretty positive buzz word to use in marketing copy, so if his vape really is RohS complaint, why not post it up in the copy.

Electrician, you were the one that brought up this RohS compliant shit, not me.

Calling Tom childish and then calling me ridiculous is a bit of a personal attack that I really try hard to stay away from, for God only knows that I too have a lot of name calling to throw around, but the last thing I would want to do is to be viewed as a "ridiculous" "child".

Too funny........ How 'bout if we stay away from the name calling, eh? It accomplishes absolutely nothing and serves no purpose whatsoever.

 

[the electrician]

Pammy is totally pissed too !

name dropping the wife for good measure

 

[Purple-Days]

Both of us used the product and she is a member of this forum. Got any other nits to pick? It's still pink as it was before.

 

[momofthegoons]

OMG folks! This name calling and finger pointing needs to stop. If indeed this is a thread regarding brass/lead safety, make this about that. And let's get another thread going about some of the components that are also in the whips., etc., just like the glass on glass thread. But let's stop making this personal. Tom and Rick have some history; that is obvious, but none of our business. And, it has no business here. This is about brass and lead. This isn't about making a decision about whether or not to purchase/use a PD or a Zap. That is an individual decision and belongs in those threads. And, it's already been addressed in Krazy's comparison thread. My personal feeling is that valid information should be posted here, not personal opinion. Then each person can make their own decision. Enough of this mud slinging and oneupmanship. (is that a word?)

One of the reasons this forum appealed to me was the integrity that I saw here. Everyone seemed to be working towards pretty much the same goal; education, information, fun. That is, with the exception of the "feud" that seems to never end regarding the PD and the Zaps. I, for one, am tired of it. I see two fine craftsmen, with different ideals, who are proud of their work. Who is right? Who is wrong? Neither. They each have their own standards and pride in their work.

So come on guys.....can't we all get along????

 

[Purple-Days]

NO, we can't, that is obvious.

This is not a personal feud. It's about any mfg who would take risks...

And those who don't want to inform themselves can read other threads. What I posted is factual. Exactly was asked when the thread was re-opened.

Stopping the discussion validates the use of Lead in a product, weather it's Chinese or US made.

Lead is toxic. Brass is Tin and Copper. Leaded Brass contains Lead. The test I made confirms that the Aromazap heatport contains Lead. Rick's FAQ states the same. If it was a no name Chinese knock off, would you say the small amounts of Lead are OK? Maybe you would. Maybe you wouldn't. But I doubt you would want the news at 6 team to say it's not important and bury the story.

No OMGs needed, just the facts, Mam...

 

[lwien]

Mom, for the most part, this has been a very productive thread, for there has been information posted here that has never been posted here before, and I have no doubt that it has been pretty enlightening for most of us. Then electrician comes in here and rather than contribute anything worthwhile, he comes in with the sole intent of disrupting this thread by his name calling. I don't think that you can find any site that doesn't have these types of people, but thank God that this site has fewer of them than any other site that I have ever visited.

It's really difficult, however, to discuss the safety of brass in a vaporizer without discussing a vaporizer that uses brass.

But yeah, I hear your frustration with this but the less of those that come into this thread with the sole intention of flaming an already flammable situation, the better.

Tom and Rick may go at it from time to time, but that process also allows us to learn a bit of stuff, not only of the vapes that they produce, but their business models as well and that allows us, as consumers, to make a wise purchasing decision, and in the end, isn't that what this site is all about?

 

[Howie Feltersnatch]

Yes, "pedantic" is a great word ... but not a great personal characteristic.

Another great word is "Libel."

:/


Back on topic:

Haven't people been smoking opium and tobacco out of brass pipes for a few hundred years or so? I don't recall lead poisoning being a major complaint.

Aren't screens for pipes still made from brass?

 

[Purple-Days]

What the 'risk taker' comment directed at all mfgs?

BTW
#284 in the MZ thread where Rick says,
"...Another thing. I am a risk taker to some degree. I come from two sides of my family being alcoholics. I eat too much meat and love bacon and farm fresh eggs. I also probably drink too much since we make our own 'shine and I love it.. . . Ah, just sipped off some homeade Tennessee Bourbon. Zaplady just made a bottle. Set for a few days."

Go look.

 

[lwien]

Haven't people been smoking opium and tobacco out of brass pipes for a few hundred years or so? I don't recall lead poisoning being a major complaint.

Aren't screens for pipes still made from brass?

Yeah, I smoked from a brass ProtoPipe for years. And yeah, screens for pipes are made from either brass or stainless, or titanium.

And yeah, people have been smoking opium and tobacco out of brass pipes for a few hundred years, but we really didn't know about lead poisoning and it's cumulative affects until fairly recently. But, being what we now know of lead and the damage that it can do long term, I would never smoke out of a ProtoPipe again, nor would I use brass screens.

Fuck, I remember going fishing with my dad and using and handling lead sinkers and then eating sandwiches without so much as washing my hands. I would never do that today.
Have I suffered any negative affects from lead exposure? Maybe. I do have a bit of ADD. Always had a hard time concentrating in school, and still have a hard time concentrating when I read anything. I'm a bit compulsive too. A tad of OCD going on along with memory issues. Are these symptoms of lead poisoning? Yes they are. Are my symptoms due to lead poisoning? I have no idea. But, knowing what I know now about what lead can do, I want to limit my exposure as much as I possibly can.

One of the main reasons I went from smoking to vaporizing is because of health concerns regarding smoke. So, for me, it makes perfect sense to use a vaporizer that is as healthy of a vaporizer as I can find, which means a vaporizer that does not contain any lead amongst other things. It's the same reason that I buy my bud from a med dispensary that tests for chemicals, pesticides and mold. But at the same token, I'm not a bubble boy. I have no problem in dropping a piece of food on the floor and picking it up and eating it and I very rarely wash my hands before a meal unless they are visibly dirty. I just feel that my stomach does a much better job at filtering out and destroying a lot of the bad stuff but that my lungs, especially after decades of smoking 3 packs of cigs a day, just aren't quite up to the same task.

 

[toxicc]

Haven't people been smoking opium and tobacco out of brass pipes for a few hundred years or so? I don't recall lead poisoning being a major complaint.

Aren't screens for pipes still made from brass?

Weren't all people dying before being 30 years old some time ago? Not that i imply that it was caused by lead, i just mean that safety standards were not the same at all, and it's mostly completely another story. And my pipe screens are made of stainless steel, the same as there is in my faucet.

 

[reece]

What's kinda weird, Rick, is that you do clearly state in your FAQ on your site ("We do use brass tubing in the manufacture of the heatport assembly and the vapor stem tips. Brass contains a very tiny amount of lead.") and yet in post #94, you said, "So the heat exchanger is "lined" with the NO LEAD brass tubing.", "The air is then heated and passes thru the NO LEAD brass heatport tube and through the NO LEAD stem tip, into the contents of the NO LEAD brass stem tip". The statements in your FAQ and the statements in your post seem to contradict one another, no?

(Maybe this post belongs in the Zap thread. If so, I apologize and will repost there if the mods see fit.)

You know perfectly well that post #94 was made after he spoke with his supplier who told Rick it was lead free. Wasn't it just yesterday? Did you really forget already? Didn't you reply to that post? The fact that you know he just got the lead free information yesterday and are now trying to make it seem as if he is contradicting himself is very troubling.

And yes, as far as we know lead free means no more than .07% lead.

There is a way to remove lead from machined brass. There is info on the web. Maybe the brass undergoes this process (Rick could probably add this process as a production step) and that is why the supplier said lead free? Or more likely it is because it is within legal limits to say lead free.

but overall the thing is rohs compliant, just like yours right?

Is it? It may be, and maybe I missed it 'cause my eyes aren't as good as they used to be, but I looked all over his site and it doesn't state that anywhere.

Did you happen to look in this thread and the links I provided not so long ago? Why are you acting in such a disingenuous manner?

Breathing through a Lead filled product for a couple of years, from a vape manufacturer who was touting his Lead Free solder at the time of the sale has me a bit peeved. Yep ! Totally pissed off ! After seeing that pink paper today, confirming what was hidden for so long, Pammy is totally pissed too !

Please provide the facts that show Rick hid anything from you. And now .07 percent is "lead filled?"

And, you have known of the lead content for years now. At least a little before

2008-05-16 12:13:18 pm

Right? You did know before that date. But now you are soooo pissed because you just found out brass has lead? When you weren't sure of the specific alloy you thought it could contain ".5% pb" That's what you said on the above date.

Now you have just confirmed the specific alloy (260) and the maximum lead content (.07%) but you've known it had lead for some time. My goodness, Tom as much as you have talked about lead in the Zap are you really acting like you just found out? Stop the feigned outrage.

What you have done, repeatedly, is make claims attacking Rick's character without providing one shred of proof. Each time I ask I am ignored. You have no problem providing support for other claims you make. Whether we agree or not is another story but we do see how you arrived at your conclusion.

Remember, you made a false accusation against me. Had I not provided evidence to the contrary that you could not ignore, your attempt to drag my name through the mud would have been successful. But that is not how it is supposed to work. The burden of proof is usually on the accuser.

I believe it is inappropriate for you to continuously make these accusations, without proof, when you are in a position to directly benefit from making Rick seem unscrupulous.

 

[Howie Feltersnatch]

Reece,

Very well put.

In fact, I am fairly confident that one of the reasons he says he decided in 2008 to copy/improve on the aromazap (admittedly, his first vape) was because of "health reasons."

(I'm sure it wasn't for some crass reason like just making money.)

Oh, and another great word - "disingenuous" - everybody here should look THAT one up.

 

[Purple-Days]

I found out about the Lead, in the product I was breathing through from Rick, in late 2007. And I am still pissed. Since you seem to have forgotten part of the story I will remind you.

I was working at Rick's request to help re-word some of his FAQ page. Rick's FAQ at the time stated Lead Free solder. I said to Rick, 100% Lead Free would be a much more effective statement. At that point I had no idea, that a mfg advertising Lead Free solder, would be using a brass with added Lead. Rick told me He could not say 100% Lead Free. Until that day, like many people, I had no notion that brass was sold with added Lead. That was the day the red flags went up. I was pissed that day, and have been pissed ever since. Some day you may feel the same way, but at least you know. When we bought the Zap the only thing Rick was saying was Lead Free solder. His motivation for admitting that his brass had Lead, I'll leave up to you. But you can see it's pretty hard to hide, NOW.

Oh, BTW did I mention that Rick was trying to sell the Aromazap Empire to me at the time?

Oh, and here's the facts, mam. If you want to see what I mean about touting his Lead Free solder but not mentioning the Leaded Brass, here : http://web.archive.org/web/20031007172745/http://aromazap.com/
this is an archive of his site in 2003 when we bought the first Zap. Go look at the FAQ,
"All solder used in the mechanical construction of the heatport and electronic assemblies is 100% LEAD FREE solder." His caps not mine.

Or how about this one from 2007? http://web.archive.org/web/20071014011727/www.aromazap.com/aromazap_faq.php

"all the brass used in the heatport and stems is made in USA, as is the nylon material used in the vapor stems. All solder used in the mechanical construction of the heatport and electronic assemblies is 100% ?LEAD FREE? solder."

But, when asked, Rick stated that he could not say 100% Lead Free... Now, lets re-look at that long word you just used.

 

[the electrician]

just give it up, youve scraped the bottom of the barrel so much youve dug through and are presently constructing your own graves. im sure more than a few people are getting sick to death of the whole godly status given out to you and your vaporiser, especially when you hide behind it and act up when things dont go your way and then send out the missionaries to chastise and convert anyone that may think another vaporiser could exist and do a better job than yours

 

[steiner666]

I think accusers have the burden of proof. There is brass with lead and there is brass without lead. I think that anyone who's afraid of a possible .07% MAX lead content should have a lab with a spectrum analyzer to look for lead in this vape (or anything else they come in contact with regularly) to put their worried minds at ease. No amount of exchanging opinionated words can prove things either way here apparently, so why not just let it go until someone has cold hard data to share?

 

[jeffp]

Electrician, there's no godly status given to any vaporizer and there's no missionaries. In fact there's not even any orthodoxy, for example I started a thread a little while back about a cool pipe maker which by definition flies in the face of "fuck combustion." Most of us here like to grow a collection of favored vapes and we like to talk about them all. Not to mention brownies. This is a very valid discussion and lead, like Teflon, warrants critical discussion.

 

[lwien]

Ok, let's forget all the riff raff, including mine, for a second here and let me address the elephant in the room by asking this question.

Being that there is such a hoopla regarding the safety or danger of brass being used in a vaporizer, why use it? Is there any advantage of using brass in the construction of the bowls and heat exchanger?

 

[the electrician]

oh yes of course, my mistake

 

[jeffp]

but overall the thing is rohs compliant, just like yours right?

Is it? It may be, and maybe I missed it 'cause my eyes aren't as good as they used to be, but I looked all over his site and it doesn't state that anywhere.

But just an fyi, I'm an old man and I take pride in acting childish.

When you say "childish" this reminds me of a stunt a friend of mine pulled a while ago. Well about 3o years ago. We were driving around and we saw a doll on the street. My friend stopped his car, ripped the head off the doll and punched it through his car antenna; it blinked when he hit a bump. Later on that night we bumped into our friend Stuey driving around - he had the leg of that doll in his car. He said he saw the doll on the street also, it didn't have a head but he said he was going to make a pipe out of the leg.

But I digress.

 

[reece]

I found out about the Lead, in the product I was breathing through from Rick, in late 2007. And I am still pissed. Since you seem to have forgotten part of the story I will remind you.

I was working at Rick's request to help re-word some of his FAQ page. Rick's FAQ at the time stated Lead Free solder. I said to Rick, 100% Lead Free would be a much more effective statement. At that point I had no idea, that a mfg advertising Lead Free solder, would be using a brass with added Lead. Rick told me He could not say 100% Lead Free. Until that day, like many people, I had no notion that brass was sold with added Lead. That was the day the red flags went up. I was pissed that day, and have been pissed ever since. Some day you may feel the same way, but at least you know. When we bought the Zap the only thing Rick was saying was Lead Free solder. His motivation for admitting that his brass had Lead, I'll leave up to you. But you can see it's pretty hard to hide, NOW.

Oh, BTW did I mention that Rick was trying to sell the Aromazap Empire to me at the time?

Oh, and here's the facts, mam. If you want to see what I mean about touting his Lead Free solder but not mentioning the Leaded Brass, here : http://web.archive.org/web/20031007172745/http://aromazap.com/
this is an archive of his site in 2003 when we bought the first Zap. Go look at the FAQ,
"All solder used in the mechanical construction of the heatport and electronic assemblies is 100% LEAD FREE solder." His caps not mine.

Or how about this one from 2007? http://web.archive.org/web/20071014011727/www.aromazap.com/aromazap_faq.php

"all the brass used in the heatport and stems is made in USA, as is the nylon material used in the vapor stems. All solder used in the mechanical construction of the heatport and electronic assemblies is 100% ?LEAD FREE? solder."

But, when asked, Rick stated that he could not say 100% Lead Free... Now, lets re-look at that long word you just used.

Tom, it is 2010, that archive you've linked to is 7 years old. The other is 3 years old. How does this disprove my claim that you knew before the recent events? Or, better yet, how does it support your claim that you just found out? And sustaining that outrage all these years must have been so hard that you forgot to show it until now.

And Rick saying his solder has no lead but that he could not say 100% lead free for his product does the opposite of proving he hid anything or misrepresented himself.

Think about what you are saying. Rick told you he couldn't say 100% lead free and now you find out there is lead in the brass so Rick hid that fact from you.

The PD has a wood body and a metal heater, according to what I've read from you. If I bought one and then 7 years later started ranting about being misled because the body isn't metal no one would take me seriously. If I then gave a link showing that you said the body is wood as proof of the deception I would probably be laughed off the forum.


Rick said lead free solder so I thought everything was lead free. Rick said he couldn't say 100% lead free, which might be why he specified lead free solder (that's speculation on my part -reece), so I thought it was 100% lead free.

But this is no laughing matter because you are disparaging a competitor.

In the first post of the PD thread, you mention that there is lead in the brass, and you provide research about lead in brass. But you just found out about the brass? Also in that post you made no indication of how pissed you were at Rick when you found out about the lead in the brass. Wait, you just found out about the lead. Sorry, I forgot.


It is a pretty serious charge. Rick hid the fact that there was lead in his product. That's a very serious charge. One disproved out by the evidence you presented.


So back to the first request. Care to show how Rick "dragged the PD name...."? Or was that just an excuse for you to bash Rick with more unproven claims?

 

[CrazyFingers]

What the 'risk taker' comment directed at all mfgs?

BTW
#284 in the MZ thread where Rick says,
"...Another thing. I am a risk taker to some degree. I come from two sides of my family being alcoholics. I eat too much meat and love bacon and farm fresh eggs. I also probably drink too much since we make our own 'shine and I love it.. . . Ah, just sipped off some homeade Tennessee Bourbon. Zaplady just made a bottle. Set for a few days."

Go look. wink

Are we seriously just gonna let that comment slide and call this an objective thread? This isn't pointed at any specific manufacturer huh? How the fuck does this kind of thing slide. This is a personal attack on a competitor and is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT. I'm sorry to kind of derail this thread but IMO Tom is acting completely out of hand. Its obvious he will take any opportunity to deface Rick, who I think is a stand up guy along with many people on this forum. Lets stick to info on brass huh?