Is Brass Safe?

[B.]

Would it be possible to put one of the lead test strips inside of a stem and take a hit and see if that sets off the lead alarm? That is, if the strip is sensitive enough to detect IF any lead is present in the actual hit. I feel like someone should be able to science up an answer.

Any cool science guys wanna bring a PD and a MZ into a lab and analyze the vapor produced by both to see what fun substances are floatin around in there? I feel like that may be the only thing that will put this debate to rest.

 

[pyronym]

And can you imagine being Clyde, in High School, at the same time the movie came out?
I have been de-sensitized to any poking fun, long ago. Kinda proud of the name now days. My Father named me after his best friend who was killed at age 17.

I used to be teamed up with another carpenter, his name was Claude... , yes we caught hell pretty regular.

Funny how this has nothing to do with the thread but no mods are saying it's off topic. hmmm

 

[obelisk]

Would it be possible to put one of the lead test strips inside of a stem and take a hit and see if that sets off the lead alarm? That is, if the strip is sensitive enough to detect IF any lead is present in the actual hit. I feel like someone should be able to science up an answer.

Any cool science guys wanna bring a PD and a MZ into a lab and analyze the vapor produced by both to see what fun substances are floatin around in there? I feel like that may be the only thing that will put this debate to rest.

I've actually done the first thing you mention. The result was neutral, but I do not think that the test worked, which is why I never mentioned it, I wasted a strip there.

One has to expose the strip to a suspect surface for 2 minutes minimum. so you gotta hit the mz for two minutes, making sure the vapor/air is coming out at all times.

maybe somebody with an MZ could try this again though, seems worth a shot and others might be more creative than i was.

 

[DevoTheStrange]

I think you would want to do that with the MZ turned off... the heat might affect the outcome of the test... give a false reading maybe.
Are there any guidelines regarding doing the test on a hot material?

Would be easy to do with an air pump, instead of hooking up the out flow of a pump to a stem... hook up the inflow, causing it to suck on the stem, that way you can have a constant source of air flowing thru the tubing going the right direction through the Zap.
let MZ cool down... put tubing onto vapor stem, put no herb in it... attach tubing to pump... but strip inside vapor stem... put in unit, turn on pump... leave for two minutes.
Then repeat experiment with MZ turned on and see if the results are the same.

 

[pyronym]

plus part of the vapor would be h20 and if i recall correctly water will produce the positive for lead change in color i think that's what I read.

 

[obelisk]

plus part of the vapor would be h20 and if i recall correctly water will produce the positive for lead change in color i think that's what I read.

water makes it orange. positive colors are red pink purple.

Devo, that air pump thing would be good, that's a great idea. Anyone here with a Zap willing to do this??

Though, I'd say one would want to test it at operating temps as well. How would the heat contribute to a false reading?

 

[DevoTheStrange]

plus part of the vapor would be h20 and if i recall correctly water will produce the positive for lead change in color i think that's what I read.

water makes it orange. positive colors are red pink purple.

Devo, that air pump thing would be good, that's a great idea. Anyone here with a Zap willing to do this??

Though, I'd say one would want to test it at operating temps as well. How would the heat contribute to a false reading?

thats why i propose someone try it with a pump both cold, and at operating temps. I am unsure of heat might change the reading, or even destroy the test. The chemicals in the test strip may be heat sensitive. But I am unsure of this.... there should be a list of things to avoid in the instructions.

 

[lwien]

And can you imagine being Clyde, in High School, at the same time the movie came out?
I have been de-sensitized to any poking fun, long ago. Kinda proud of the name now days. My Father named me after his best friend who was killed at age 17.

I used to be teamed up with another carpenter, his name was Claude... , yes we caught hell pretty regular.

Funny how this has nothing to do with the thread but no mods are saying it's off topic. hmmm

Ya know, this is getting really fuckin' old. Your implication that the FC is somehow tied into the PD and that they get preferential treatment in this thread is totally unfounded. Tom has had his hand slapped more than just a few times, and quite hard at that and is one of the reasons he was absent here for so long. If you go back in thread history, you will see mod notes attached to some of Toms posts as well in other threads. Believe me, the mods have got on his case more than a few times.

Mods are not going to call a post off topic unless it is derailing a thread and Tom responding to the name Clyde, in lieu of the previous posts regarding his middle name, was nothing more than a bit of friendly banter, nothing more, nothing less. I've done it myself in many other threads, that is, adding a bit of comic relief or just a bit of friendly nonsensical stuff, and I've never been called out on it either. Others have done the same.

If anyone should get their hands slapped on this, it's me, for responding to your idiotic assumption, and totally willing to take an infraction point on this.

But I will say this. If I joined a site that I felt existed to offer up unbiased information on vaporizers, but later found out that the site was tied into a certain vape manufacturer and that they gave him preferential treatment above and beyond all other manufacturers, I would leave there in a heartbeat, for I would have no reason to stick around.

Rant over................(fuck, I need my morning coffee)

 

[pyronym]

Ya know, this is getting really fuckin' old. Your implication that the FC is somehow tied into the PD and that they get preferential treatment in this thread is totally unfounded. Tom has had his hand slapped more than just a few times, and quite hard at that and is one of the reasons he was absent here for so long. If you go back in thread history, you will see mod notes attached to some of Toms posts as well in other threads. Believe me, the mods have got on his case more than a few times.

Mods are not going to call a post off topic unless it is derailing a thread and Tom responding to the name Clyde, in lieu of the previous posts regarding his middle name, was nothing more than a bit of friendly banter, nothing more, nothing less. I've done it myself in many other threads, that is, adding a bit of comic relief or just a bit of friendly nonsensical stuff, and I've never been called out on it either. Others have done the same.

If anyone should get their hands slapped on this, it's me, for responding to your idiotic assumption, and totally willing to take an infraction point on this.

Rant over................(fuck, I need my morning coffee)

I never implied that fc is tied in with pd to be honest I really don't care if they are I just want an objective debate and this doesn't seem objective at all I think that both manufacturers should stay out of the thread unless they have some sort of proof either way that the device is leaching lead into our vapor.

Now back on topic. I don't know if the test strip would work I think that the only way it would work is to fill a bag with vapor and let it settle on the strip I still don't believe it would work though.

Hmm

I know when I hit my zap after my hit I thumb the stem that way I can tell how spent the weed is before my next hit and I look at the vapor in the stem. it doesn't really seem to move around so I don't think that putting a test strip in the stem would work plus what chemicals are you inhaling from the test strip?

 

[nicelytoasted]

plus part of the vapor would be h20 and if i recall correctly water will produce the positive for lead change in color i think that's what I read.

water makes it orange. positive colors are red pink purple.

Devo, that air pump thing would be good, that's a great idea. Anyone here with a Zap willing to do this??

Though, I'd say one would want to test it at operating temps as well. How would the heat contribute to a false reading?

thats why i propose someone try it with a pump both cold, and at operating temps. I am unsure of heat might change the reading, or even destroy the test. The chemicals in the test strip may be heat sensitive. But I am unsure of this.... there should be a list of things to avoid in the instructions.

I like the idea of doing a test, but to do it properly, it would really need to be done with a flow that is precisely measured over a set time to give an accurate volume. This would give quantitative results.

These indicator strips are just a general qualitative method imo. You would need a proper inline sorbent media to trap the gas/vapour/aerosols in conjunction with an inline filter media to trap the particulates at the same time. The problem is that you would then need to analyze both to determine exactly if or how much (quantitative) lead is present in amount per volume (ie ug/m3), or similar. The test would need to be done numerous times as well, to get a representative, accurate/precise sample set.

I could do these tests at work, in theory, if I had a zap.

In reality, I couldn't, since I would have a tough time explaining what this sample set was all about...

my

 

[lwien]

........plus what chemicals are you inhaling from the test strip?

Good point.

Probably the only definitive way of doing this is to have the vapor analyzed in the lab to determine it's total chemical make-up, but in lieu of that, I don't think that there is anything else that can be done, testing wise, than what has already been done.

Edit: ooops. Posted this before I saw the post directly above.

 

[DevoTheStrange]

I know when I hit my zap after my hit I thumb the stem that way I can tell how spent the weed is before my next hit and I look at the vapor in the stem. it doesn't really seem to move around so I don't think that putting a test strip in the stem would work plus what chemicals are you inhaling from the test strip?

I terms of using these strip tests.... You don't want to use a vapor bag, because the vapor itself might give you a false positive, would be easier to just test the air without vapor in it, also the air would be only passively touching the test, you would need a constant flow over the test for it to be testable. When you add vapor to the test, you are putting in too many extra variables that might screw up the test.... much easier to put a partial blockage in the air stream with the strip than let it sit in a bag. That and how are you going to set up a MZ to a bag?
To use a bag to test, you would need a whole different test that would look at all the contents of the vaporizer, something that these little strips do not do.

Which is why I say use an air pump (all you need is a bit of tubing hooked up between the pump and vapor stem, nothing else)... test the airflow through the unit itself. Also this way you are not inhaling anything from the strip. That and I doubt any person could do 2 minutes of constant sucking on the tube.
and if you crumple the strip up and put it in the bowl, air will make its way around the strip no problem, with just enough blockage to capture the air momentarily.

 

[pyronym]

Hmmm well I would think that your herb would act like a filter which would be a good thing vape a stem untill it's cash and then take your abv and leave it on the test strip for a bit I wouldn't say to rub the abv on it because it would probably break up.just keep rolling it around every few minutes???????

@ lwien no hard feelings I know most of us are pumped up at this thread I've always found your posts informative and valuable to the community so thank you.

 

[DevoTheStrange]

but we don't know if there is anything in the ABV that would give a false positive/negative. To test the ABV you would have to test it thoroughly in a lab to find trace amounts (although that is another good idea if anyone of us could afford to have such a test done, if there are any traces of lead you would find them there with the right equipment). The ABV is too fragile and small to be used with a test that requires surface friction.

just had a thought... take a jar of ABV (hopefully nothing in the ABV itself will affect the out come of the test) throw the whole test in with the jar, and shake that bastard like there was no tomorrow and see if the strip takes color... might not work... but it just might...

Air flow might work over such a test, however it might need longer exposure than two minutes to provide the required friction from the air to be tested.

 

[reece]

That is the brass tubing you tested. It is declared Lead free and you tested it and it is Lead free. Where is the surprise? Take your unit apart and test the heat sink and you will get the same results that I did.

See post #94 where Rick ignores the other portions of the airpath? Same as you are doing.

I stopped reading at this point because I cam across another untruth.

You keep saying Rick is not mentioning the heatsink.

From post #83

The tubing size quoted was everything I use that is in the vapor path except the heatsink which(just checked) is the same alloy.

Now, like the time you lied about me, you may try to say you didn't see that post. You may also try to say you were unaware of the discussion following the above post about whether one C260 alloy has the same amount of lead as another C260 alloy. But I'd like to save you the energy and embarrassment of concocting another falsehood.

The metals we are talking about are alloys. Finally (see post #3) Rick finds the alloy numbers (C260) and shares them, on one portion of his airpath, the tubing. (BTW there are other components to Rick's airpath. The top disk and sleeve are not mentioned at all. )

As stated the heatsink is c260 so the alloy is the same and has the properties listed below.

So the following only applies to the tubing and heat sink.

BTW alloy numbers are there so that you know what you are buying. C260 is C260 is C260.

Tom, you are not an honest broker in this discussion (neither is Lwien see posts 148 and 165 for explanation). There is a glaring conflict of interest.

If the truth is on your side there is no need to lie. Yet you do it time and again. And the really big question is, why do you do it when it is so easily disproved?

I won't participate in this thread any longer until we can have an actual honest debate with people who have nothing to gain from a declaration that brass is unsafe. Actually, I don't care about a seeming conflict of interest as long as the party behaves objectively. Hell, they don't have to be objective as long as they tell the truth.

Besides, I don't know what is left to debate. We knew there was lead, we now know the quantity, .07%.

We know C260 brass is acceptable, by far, under RoHS guidelines allowing up to .4% (if I remember correctly. I made a previous post with links) as well as California guidelines allowing up to .25% (still going by memory). It is still a matter of personal decision making as to whether those levels are acceptable.

 

[pyronym]

Hmm then try a super small bit of unvaped herb for a control test then vape not until it's crispy vut just a couple or few hits and see what happens. I would think you would want to use what ever is closest to the stem so you could still vape the rest.

got it put cotton in the mouth piece part of the stem take a few blank hits don't breath in just pull into your mouth and blow it out. then remove the cotton from the stem and rub it on the paper. Do we know how sensitive the test is will it pick up particulate or does it have to really have a good amount of lead for it to show up?

 

[lwien]

@ lwien no hard feelings I know most of us are pumped up at this thread I've always found your posts informative and valuable to the community so thank you.

No hard feelings here either. I may have jumped the gun a bit there and replied not only to you, but to others who have implied that site management is biased. While I have no doubt that many of us are, I really do think that site management has done a fantastic job at providing us with the most informative, and in-depth analysis of vaporizers anywhere on the internet, and because of that, I have a tendency to jump to their defense.

Sorry if I came down kinda hard there. I should know better than to get on the 'puter before my mornin' coffee. :/


Ok, back to our regular scheduled programming..............

 

[Beezleb]

I have read this thing and drama aside. I like the idea of testing the air path and would like to see this from all vaporizers.

I would imagine you could use a generic cut piece of a filter of some type to capture dry air and possibly test that instead of using ABV. I would think that using only air through would less complicate the testing.

I tend to see this issue as in part being a "sky is falling", Henny Penny type of thing to being a legit personal concern/issue for some to at ?worst being a shady business practice to illustrate an unbalanced view of a competitors product in what is largely accept by the population to be free of that. With that said I personally believe it is a little of all of it but I wholly believe some manufacturers are very passionate on the issue and that passion may potentially be causing some people to view the issue than wholly intended but that is for each person to decide who may or may not even care.

I believe all manufactures in this thread make quality, efficient, beautiful vaporizers that both have a large and loyal following. That speaks louder than the personal preferences of the makers and I applaud them all for their passion, hard work and willingness to put up with this kind of discussion as after all, this is voluntary. I would like to see the discussions more focused on the subjects and FC.com respected by those taking part in the discussions as that is what makes us a resources. Not the fact we are lucky enough to have manufactures/creators of vaporizers and other industry peoples who post here. While for some, side arguments and the like drama may be a source of entertainment I believe this direction will be a detriment to the site.

For my own preferences and due to the brass used being ROHS compliant which is the set standard I believe. I see it akin to regular food versus organic foods and nothing more. I have not seen any aspect to indicate it is dangerous to affect my personal opinion on the issue but I am open minded and I genuinely respect the views and concerns of others and when information with merit presents itself to me I will update my view on the issue when applicable.

In my opinion this issue for some is blown out of proportion, for others it is ongoing and incomplete, for others they see things between the lines and were turned off by it and moved on, for others its a source of entertainment. I see merit for each of those opinions, I ask those taking part in the discussion to remain focused to the discussion and not on each other and perhaps some of these views will go away.

 

[DevoTheStrange]

got it put cotton in the mouth piece part of the stem take a few blank hits don't breath in just pull into your mouth and blow it out. then remove the cotton from the stem and rub it on the paper. Do we know how sensitive the test is will it pick up particulate or does it have to really have a good amount of lead for it to show up?

Well it is testing for leachable lead, so it should pick up particulate, the thing though is the sensitivity.... I imagine it is not too sensitive if you have to rub the test for two minutes.

 

[MoeOnTheMoon]

I have read this thing and drama aside. I like the idea of testing the air path and would like to see this from all vaporizers.

I would imagine you could use a generic cut piece of a filter of some type to capture dry air and possibly test that instead of using ABV. I would think that using only air through would less complicate the testing.

I tend to see this issue as in part being a "sky is falling", Henny Penny type of thing to being a legit personal concern/issue for some to at ?worst being a shady business practice to illustrate an unbalanced view of a competitors product in what is largely accept by the population to be free of that. With that said I personally believe it is a little of all of it but I wholly believe some manufacturers are very passionate on the issue and that passion may potentially be causing some people to view the issue than wholly intended but that is for each person to decide who may or may not even care.

I believe all manufactures in this thread make quality, efficient, beautiful vaporizers that both have a large and loyal following. That speaks louder than the personal preferences of the makers and I applaud them all for their passion, hard work and willingness to put up with this kind of discussion as after all, this is voluntary. I would like to see the discussions more focused on the subjects and FC.com respected by those taking part in the discussions as that is what makes us a resources. Not the fact we are lucky enough to have manufactures/creators of vaporizers and other industry peoples who post here. While for some, side arguments and the like drama may be a source of entertainment I believe this direction will be a detriment to the site.

For my own preferences and due to the brass used being ROHS compliant which is the set standard I believe. I see it akin to regular food versus organic foods and nothing more. I have not seen any aspect to indicate it is dangerous to affect my personal opinion on the issue but I am open minded and I genuinely respect the views and concerns of others and when information with merit presents itself to me I will update my view on the issue when applicable.

In my opinion this issue for some is blown out of proportion, for others it is ongoing and incomplete, for others they see things between the lines and were turned off by it and moved on, for others its a source of entertainment. I see merit for each of those opinions, I ask those taking part in the discussion to remain focused to the discussion and not on each other and perhaps some of these views will go away.

Finally, a voice of reason. I agree whole-heartedly.

 

[Purple-Days]

Sorry to correct you Beez, Rick says that it's not an 'All RoHS compliant' vape. Folks keep missing that point. Parts of it, may be, but not all parts. Rick says so. And parts with Lead are in the Air Path.

And yes Beez, some of us are passionate. Passionate enough to make our own. Like Hippie Dickie, or Launch Box. Ask them about the Lead content of their product. Or about concerns with toxins in the airpath. Please do...

Point two: using a Lead Surface Test, to test air quality, is not science. Duh!

To some others: Go ask! Pro-Lab about their thoughts on that... Go ahead, ask them... Report back, OK ? That;'s the only way we will know if this test is applicable to this proposed usage. I got a nickel that says it's not able to be used in this fashion.

 

[DevoTheStrange]

found a PDF talking about EcoBrass... Brass that is lead free...
http://www.ingot.ca/ecobrass/images/Modern Metals.pdf

at the end of it there are come companies and their websites listed. However when looking up the brass specs some of their products under the Eco Brass variety have lead (some up to .09%, which is even more than what is stated for c260)), very interesting to see what the term Lead Free actually means...

 

[B.]

Point two: using a Lead Surface Test, to test air quality, is not science. Duh!

Just asking questions and sharing ideas. Respectfully. Feel free to question my questions and ideas. Respectfully.

I admit I was being loose/unclear with the language, and for that I apologize to our ESL community. When I said "science up an answer" what I meant was just that. Test the air leaving a vape under controlled circumstanceswith the proper equipment, in a proper lab,by proper scientists, providing reproduceable results. I was not implying that my suggestion was scientific.

I feel like it should become standard operating procedure that all vape makers test the air coming out of their vapes and see what is to be potentially inhaled. Does anyone with experience know what the cost of such a test would be? I imagine this isn't cutting edge science, and I bet the cost wouldn't be prohibitive. And how great would it be to put the death by chromium vs death by lead debate to rest. We need our very own Erin Vapovitch.

We can go back and forth all we want, but until we do the available tests to definitively discover what we are being exposed to, we aren't going to get anywhere speculating. All we're doing is going around in the same circles.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

I feel like it should become standard operating procedure that all vape makers test the air coming out of their vapes and see what is to be potentially inhaled.

and for an all glass vapor path, too? ... dude, buyer beware, eh?

how about fast food vendors test their crap for potential hazards to ingestors, eh?

how about high fructose corn syrup perveyors post the results of drinking their poison, eh?

remember, 50,000 people die on the highway every year.

i'd just recommend transparency ... let the buyer know what the fuck they are getting in a product.

After all, any truly valid test should be done in your ambient atmosphere, because, truly, the vape may convert the air you normally breathe into a choking miasma, let alone releasing all the nasties that may be indemic to the 'erb you put in the vape.

 

[Purple-Days]

I think standard testing is a great idea.

Let's establish the test criteria.