Holy Piatella

[jbm]

How about PURPLE trichomes and bubble hash....?
https://flic.kr/p/tJdEfq

Here's a lot of info on piatella:

What is Piatella and How to Make Piatella

Piatella is making waves in a major way. You’ve seen the pictures, you’ve seen the memes. This is next-level solventless and it’s blowing peoples’ minds, and rightfully so. The potency and flavor of this artfully-crafted solventless cannabis concentrate is truly legendary. So what is Piatella...

thepressclub.co

Thanks for this info, very useful. We now return you to Le Festival de Idee Fixe, already in progress. Some of this is interesting, but it’s mostly become “No, *I’m* right!” “No, *I* am!”

 

[GoldenBud]

Thanks for this info, very useful. We now return you to Le Festival de Idee Fixe, already in progress. Some of this is interesting, but it’s mostly become “No, *I’m* right!” “No, *I* am!”

It's not about saying that I am right he is right is about giving the information to people NOT to buy too dark hash in expensive price.... useful information to save money etc'.... like when people taught me not to get too stiff hash because it has a lot of plant material....
it's a discussion about zero or 0 star vs 4-6 stars hash....

I AM RIGHT!! I AM!! I AMMM!!
(jk )

 

[jbm]

It's not about saying that I am right he is right is about giving the information to people NOT to buy too dark hash in expensive price.... useful information to save money etc'.... like when people taught me not to get too stiff hash because it has a lot of plant material....
it's a discussion about zero or 0 star vs 4-6 stars hash....

I AM RIGHT!! I AM!! I AMMM!!
(jk )

And if you want to start a useful thread about the economics of hash color elsewhere, that would be great. This thread was supposed to be about piatella and it’s become whether any given random pic of hash is 6-star. Some of us are interested in other forms of hash than the ubiquitous bubble.

 

[Bologna]

Thanks for this info, very useful. We now return you to Le Festival de Idee Fixe, already in progress. Some of this is interesting, but it’s mostly become “No, *I’m* right!” “No, *I* am!”

Sure thing. For me it was figuring out exactly what the starting point material is... I learned it has to be specially selected "6 star full melt bubble hash", but before it's manipulated in any way.... so, while this may also be considered "6 star full melt bubble hash" it cannot be used as a starting point material in the production of Piatella because it's already been worked and cured:

dat color

All apologies for the somewhat pedantic journey getting there... I obviously don't know much about hash.

 

[Farid]

From the limited information available, it seems Piatella is just a minor modification to standard live bubble hash process with apparently very noticeable improvements.

The clues seem to indicate a process flow that has these characteristics:

- Start with high quality material.
- Make live resin from the whole plant thus leaving the trichs the least disturbed.
- Follow standard processes to ensure quality: extremely gentle on the plant matter, use freezing water with as little if any ice so as to reduce grinding of the ice against the buds.
- use only the full melt, ~ 90 micron heads
-(not much information on their drying process)

Here's where it seems to deviate from standard bubble making practices:

- some type of cold curing process that involves temperature change to create the unique texture and terp profile
- the resin is collected into a "loaf" shape where there is minor pressing of the trichs together, but not a hard press like is often done. This makes sense because when you do a hard press on very terpy material the terps can separate more easily. This seems to bleed terps into the mass of hash without it all bleeding out if that makes sense.

This is all just speculation based on the minimal amount of information available. Im sure there are some other details that make it work (possibly related to humidity and storage). But considering many of the intial steps are standard bubble hash making techniques I think that's certainly relevant- especially considering how limited the information available is. Otherwise all there is to say is "looks good, makes my mouth water, etc."

 

[Bologna]

From the limited information available, it seems Piatella is just a minor modification to standard live bubble hash process with apparently very noticeable improvements.

The clues seem to indicate a process flow that has these characteristics:

- Start with high quality material.
- Make live resin from the whole plant thus leaving the trichs the least disturbed.
- Follow standard processes to ensure quality: extremely gentle on the plant matter, use freezing water with as little if any ice so as to reduce grinding of the ice against the buds.
-(not much information on their drying process)

Here's where it seems to deviate from standard bubble making practices:

- some type of cold curing process that involves temperature change to create the unique texture and terp profile
- the resin is collected into a "loaf" shape where there is minor pressing of the trichs together, but not a hard press like is often done. This makes sense because when you do a hard press on very terpy material the terps can separate more easily. This seems to bleed terps into the mass of hash without it all bleeding out if that makes sense.

This is all just speculation based on the minimal amount of information available. Im sure there are some other details that make it work (possibly related to humidity and storage). But considering many of the intial steps are standard bubble hash making techniques I think that's certainly relevant- especially considering how limited the information available is. Otherwise all there is to say is "looks good, makes my mouth water, etc."

As well as it all being cured in a vacuum to limit oxidation... limiting oxidation also seems to be a key component.

 

[Farid]

Yes it appears they use sous vide bags to do this.

 

[GoldenBud]

The clues seem to indicate a process flow that has these characteristics:

- Start with high quality material.
- Make live resin from the whole plant thus leaving the trichs the least disturbed.

the main thing with Piatella, I think, is working with fresh frozen buds and not dry herb... 50gr dry herb were *400gr before drying... more work, a bit more terpenes, and it also means the buckets should contain more ice/water?

*herb right after harvesting contains ~80% water, dry herb contains ~10% water

 

[Cheebsy]

the main thing with Piatella, I think, is working with fresh frozen buds and not dry herb

As previously discussed... Isn't that the way with all the best concentrates? 80%+ terpenes evaporate when drying. You have to work with fresh frozen to get the best because that's the only way to get the levels or terpenes to make a really tasty product. Then, the process requires more intensive care attention to reduce contaminants.

 

[GoldenBud]

As previously discussed... Isn't that the way with all the best concentrates? 80%+ terpenes evaporate when drying. You have to work with fresh frozen to get the best because that's the only way to get the levels or terpenes to make a really tasty product. Then, the process requires more intensive care attention to reduce contaminants.

Because wet cannabis contains ~80% water and ~20% organic compounds, and dry herb contains ~10% water, you can understand that the majority of the mass which got evaporated was water. the terpenes also evaporate because the air has no terpenes so because the concentration of terpenes is higher within the wet herb, some terpenes will evaporate, to balance the sides of herb:air , yeah, but most of the web herb is water. and water boiling temp is lower than terpenes, so it's easier for water to "escape" to the air.

if dry herb has 80% water, you can imagine the water will escape mostly, not the terpenes.

but, AFAIK, in making bubble hash, nobody works with wet material. it will be a lot more mass/volume to work with.
from 100gr dry trim you can have around 15gr of bubble hash(dried) . imagine working with 800gr of wet trim ........... that's a lot more mass to process....and in the end you maybe will have a bit more than 15gr, but not something that worth to work with the wet material,IMHO

so yeah, it's the first time I am hearing about working with wet material.

 

[Farid]

Tons of people, including the folks at Uncle Farms who make Piatella, make bubble with wet, fresh frozen buds. The bud doesn't shrink that much when dried, its basically the same volume so the same amount of water can be used. The increase in mass of the fresh buds makes zero difference.

 

[GoldenBud]

The bud doesn't shrink that much when dried

you lose at least 75% of the mass while drying for 7-9 days at 55% RH or less. I was shocked too. I never knew wet cannabis is 75%-85% water.
I don't even know if there's a guide of doing bubble hash from wet buds/trim, it will require much more water/ice than dried material.

if you know a grower he can check for u. you will see. and you will be shocked like I was.

 

[Bologna]

From the link I posted earlier:

How To Make Piatella

While we don't have the exact recipe for Piatella, we have been running our own experiments in the lab. It's similar to making Temple Balls, just without the heat.

The key step is vacuum sealing the dried fresh frozen hash and allowing it to cold cure for months.

Here's an outline of the process:

1. Starting with top-quality premium resin is absolutely essential. This requires washing exceptional fresh frozen cannabis material and then freeze drying the loose resin. Full-melt, 6-star hash should be the starting point.

2. The loose resin will be in a sand-like consistency as soon as it comes out of the freeze dryer. Place the resin inside of a vacuum sealing bag, like a food-safe cellophane wapping. Then, using a vacuum sealing machine, remove all the air from inside the bag. This step allows the resin to essentially "melt" without using any heat, just time in the absence of air.

3. The vacuum seal will squeeze the loose resin into a brick. This provides just the right amount of pressure to compress the loose resin without compromising the color. At this point, terpenes will likely begin to "sweat" out of the hash. The terpenes will interact chemically with the rest of the compounds in the resin, which is how the magical transformation occurs. This also leads to greater stability and shelf-life in the long-term.

4. Place this little brick in the freezer and leave it there for a couple months. The resin will congeal together as the trichomes will melt without losing color.

 

[GoldenBud]

1. Starting with top-quality premium resin is absolutely essential. This requires washing exceptional fresh frozen cannabis material and then freeze drying the loose resin. Full-melt, 6-star hash should be the starting point.

shocking that you need to work with wet cannabis. 75-85% water percentage... so much work

The terpenes will interact chemically with the rest of the compounds in the resin

terpenes don't have any chemical reaction with THCa. it's only solubility (physical not chemical) , sounds like somebody who made these instructions wanted to market Piatella strongly

@Farid how much you will be shocked .. I remember myself understanding it .. like 3 years ago .. when I realized wet cannabis is 75-85% water after harvesting.. was SHOCKED.. that 75%~ of the weight is water evaporating in the drying process.. tell me how shocked u were man you are gonna like it haha

(all these mass can be gone in 4-5 days in 40% RH too, or in 7-9 days in 55% as discussed)

just ask some grower to scale for you before and after, don't believe me now

 

[GoldenBud]

@LesPlenty
@Zillacon
Hello sirs
Can you please check the weight of the buds before and after drying? Thanks

 

[Bologna]

shocking that you need to work with wet cannabis. 75-85% water percentage... so much work

Why tho? Using "live" material to make concentrates of all kinds has been popular for years... I don't understand how this is "so much work"... in fact, I've heard using "live" material is actually less work cuz you don't have to deal with it as much... just chop and freeze... no drying and curing needed.

terpenes don't have any chemical reaction with THCa. it's only solubility (physical not chemical) , sounds like somebody who made these instructions wanted to market Piatella strongly

Why are you hung up on only THCA...? There are many other compounds, too... but I think you're missing the larger point, I think what they mean by "terpenes will interact chemically" and "magical transformations" has more to do with the taste, texture, consistency etc and shelf life of the final product... not some special chemical reaction with THCA... but I could be wrong... heh

 

[mikedvapestrees]

bubble hash "bag" frozen fresh ...

What is Piatella and How to Make Piatella

Piatella is making waves in a major way. You’ve seen the pictures, you’ve seen the memes. This is next-level solventless and it’s blowing peoples’ minds, and rightfully so. The potency and flavor of this artfully-crafted solventless cannabis concentrate is truly legendary. So what is Piatella...

thepressclub.co

"
Here's an outline of the process:
1. Starting with top-quality premium resin is absolutely essential. This requires washing exceptional fresh frozen cannabis material and then freeze drying the loose resin. Full-melt, 6-star hash should be the starting point.
2. The loose resin will be in a sand-like consistency as soon as it comes out of the freeze dryer. Place the resin inside of a vacuum sealing bag, like a food-safe cellophane wapping. Then, using a vacuum sealing machine, remove all the air from inside the bag. This step allows the resin to essentially "melt" without using any heat, just time in the absence of air.
3. The vacuum seal will squeeze the loose resin into a brick. This provides just the right amount of pressure to compress the loose resin without compromising the color. At this point, terpenes will likely begin to "sweat" out of the hash. The terpenes will interact chemically with the rest of the compounds in the resin, which is how the magical transformation occurs. This also leads to greater stability and shelf-life in the long-term.
4. Place this little brick in the freezer and leave it there for a couple months. The resin will congeal together as the trichomes will melt without losing color.
"

It's a scam here in Florida. Sunburn dispensary has it. Outrageous price and not full of bleeding terps. It's been on the shelf so long it's truly aged hash

 

[Ramahs]

Yup, I just came

 

[GoldenBud]

It's a scam here in Florida. Sunburn dispensary has it. Outrageous price and not full of bleeding terps. It's been on the shelf so long it's truly aged hash

I wonder if somebody here can do a comparison between taking 50-100gr dry trim sugar leafs or 400-800 wet sugar leafs to see the differences. i think Piatella is more marketing than really something else in terms of quality/flavour

 

[Farid]

The Sunburn product just looks like nucleated bubble. The Spanish product looks more unique in texture and looks much higher quality.

Whether Piatella it truly smokes different from 6 star, versus just looking/feeling different is impossible to know without sampling it, but the awards they've won seem to indicate its certainly very good.

 

[Cheebsy]

I wonder if somebody here can do a comparison between taking 50-100gr dry trim sugar leafs or 400-800 wet sugar leafs to see the differences.

Whilst I still think this is of topic, what are you expecting the outcome of this experiment to be?

You seem fixated on the wet Vs dry processing, and I'm confused by that. Maybe I'm not thinking far enough into it, but to my monkey mind, I think it's totally obvious that wet processing results in less contaminant. If I have a wet bud in my hand, that's more work to pluck that apart to a vapable consistency than with a drier bud. The wet bud breaks apart into mostly small budlets and calyxes. The dry bud breaks up into more of a homogenous mixture of bud and broken plant matter.... I.e. some small vegetal plant particles. It's those smaller particles that end up being caught with the trichomes that end up being contaminant, or separated on the screen with a spray or carded as @Farid described in his earlier posts. When you start with dry material and use water as your solvent, you have to reconstitute that material with the water to try to prevent that brittle containment, so where do you see the advantage of processing dry material? You keep saying it's more work with wet material but don't describe why you think it's more work.

 

[staircase slight of hand]

It will never be white because some plant material will not leave. some plant material stays. because of covalent bonds. maybe because of london bonds too, but i think it's mostly covalent bonds.

Some plant material is always going to be present so long as we move the decimal place far enough in the correct direction, but I’ve seen some pretty white hash in my day. An example: https://www.reddit.com/r/rosin/comments/125sy4g

 

[RxPlorer]

Whilst I still think this is of topic, what are you expecting the outcome of this experiment to be?

You seem fixated on the wet Vs dry processing, and I'm confused by that. Maybe I'm not thinking far enough into it, but to my monkey mind, I think it's totally obvious that wet processing results in less contaminant. If I have a wet bud in my hand, that's more work to pluck that apart to a vapable consistency than with a drier bud. The wet bud breaks apart into mostly small budlets and calyxes. The dry bud breaks up into more of a homogenous mixture of bud and broken plant matter.... I.e. some small vegetal plant particles. It's those smaller particles that end up being caught with the trichomes that end up being contaminant, or separated on the screen with a spray or carded as @Farid described in his earlier posts. When you start with dry material and use water as your solvent, you have to reconstitute that material with the water to try to prevent that brittle containment, so where do you see the advantage of processing dry material? You keep saying it's more work with wet material but don't describe why you think it's more work.

I have heard, via some of Frenchie's entourage, that fresh-frozen can gum up bags, and be a lot of work to clear those bags if the trichomes are allowed to get too warm. Ie working with super cold water in a very cold room will negate those problems.

Whereas cured trichs are less likely to gum up the bags, but there's higher chance of contaminant from brittle leaves. Brittleness can be solved by presoaking to soften plant material before the wash.

Edit: and I think the vacuum sealed cold cure is what makes the big difference with Piatella. I don't think this is just marketing fluff, the pictures and video themselves are pretty compelling. Of course if someone half-asses a knockoff, and then stores it on a shelf in Florida it's going to degrade.

 

[GoldenBud]

Maybe I'm not thinking far enough into it, but to my monkey mind

no monkey mind, i may didn't explain well:

You keep saying it's more work with wet material but don't describe why you think it's more work.

listen, if you have a bucket which has a capacity of 15 liters, it matters if you work with 50gr dry herb buds or 400gr WET nugs. different mass, different volume. how much cycles will it take? how much water do u need? how much ice do u need?

won't it be easier just to let all these 400gr dry and then work with 50gr dry herb?

Other than that, Piatella is being done with wet nugs. and cellophane/vacuum methods. I don't like the cellophane/vacuum methods tho and I think it's just marketing. THCA doesn't need messing too much imho, i think it's like a "Tik Tok" Trend.

 

[Farid]

"different mass, different volume" that is not true at all. There is something called density. Water being in the bud makes it more dense.

Not to mention the dry bud soaks up water anyway when you make bubble.