Fluxer Heaters, induction heaters for Dynavap

[mr_cfromcali]

Hi folks,

I have some Saturday night updates:

Fluxer Grande: The first batch is in progress. The battery management system I chose wasn't performing well enough, so I have a better battery management system (BMS) on order, and expect it to arrive soon. Apologies for the delay, but I think you will appreciate having a balanced charging circuit.

Fluxer 2x 18650 mini IH: It now has a name: The Flux. Testing continues. No issues so far, apart from the heat up time being longer than you or I would like. I like the size and weight, but the current 30 second heat up time for a cold Dynavap is admittedly frustrating if you are used to quicker. I don't want to sell a an expensive box of frustration. Two 18650 batteries = 8.4V, and the low voltage is throttling the heat up time. I have a better BMS on order, and I'm hopeful I can tune this to perform a bit better, but it's built to be a light traveler, not a speedy one, so this might be all that this circuit can do at 8.4V. It definitely works, but at the moment it isn't very quick about it. You guys will need tell me if the benefits of a small size and light weight make up for its so-so heating performance.

Fluxer 3x 18650 mini IH: Hey now! The Flux is a fantastic heater for its size, but the tradeoff is a slower heating time.

Enter The Flux Deluxe: This is the first look at The Flux Deluxe, my new 3x 18650 / Hammond 1590B prototype. It runs on one of my new circuit boards, and between the batteries and the circuitry I will all but fill the CNC'd aluminum 1590B enclosure. You guys are gonna love this heater - it's the same small size as the the Flux, but runs at the more common 12V, so it performs like you have come to expect a portable IH to perform. I have a few details I still need to finalize - namely the charge port and the on/off switch - but make no mistake, this one is the real deal. Small and powerful, it is activated by tip insertion. It also features a balanced, 25A-capable battery management system.

I am moving forward on this one as quickly as I can, and hope to have it ready for sale in within a month.

Thanks for your interest! More to come

 

[Monsoon]

The Flux Deluxe is looking great, that's cool you were able to fit an extra battery in there.

Does the slower heating of the Flux improve the taste at all or is it just slower? Also is voltage regulated or will it drop as the batteries deplete?

 

[mr_cfromcali]

The Flux Deluxe is looking great, that's cool you were able to fit an extra battery in there.

Thanks!

Regarding the Deluxe, given the various circuits that go into the portable IHs I want to build (the batteries, the battery management system, the solid state relay, the charge port, the tactile switch, the on/off switch, maybe a battery meter, the interconnecting wiring, plus the heater itself), I think the Deluxe is pretty much my end-game for 18650-based heaters. This specific induction heater, a 3x 18650 device in a CNC 1590B enclosure - was one of my goals when I started researching these back in June, so I am excited to have a prototype of it next to me as I type this! I believe this size/form factor is THE sweet spot for a portable IH with good capacity and easily replaceable batteries. Given my resources, knowledge, and skill level, the Deluxe is going to be the best 18650 device I can do. I don't think I can fit all of these circuits plus 3x 18650 batteries into anything smaller, at least not with my current tech or abilities; I'll tip my hat to those who can do better.

Does the slower heating of the Flux improve the taste at all or is it just slower? Also is voltage regulated or will it drop as the batteries deplete?

Heh heh - yes, the longer heating time does give it better flavor, and also makes it much harder to combust.

Regarding power supplies - I've generally been using battery management system power supplies that enable a strong on-rush of current, as the IH is a very current-heavy circuit - at least 10A on demand, and "drill motor friendly." They are regulated, but my power needs are below their threshold.

In the case of the Flux, the current BMS is unregulated, and the heating time does increase as the batteries deplete*. I made a point of using it in the shop today - batteries only, not charging between uses, using it with a cold DV when possible for max stress - and by the time I pulled the batteries, the initial heat-to-click time had stretched towards 50 seconds. When I put them in my charger the batteries still had about 30% left according to my charger (meant to record a voltage rating, but might have been high...)

I think if the Flux were on a charger, it would be great to use at home as a small desktop IH, and you could still use it as a very small portable IH for quick trips where you might want to vape a few bowls - like walking the dog or taking a short-ish bike ride. Of course, it has easily replaceable batteries, so you could also bring along spares.

In the end, though, the Flux only has 8.4V to work with. It does what it can with those 8.4V, but it can't match the performance of a 12V heater, as the "zero voltage switching" (ZVS) circuit the induction heater uses operates more efficiently at higher voltage. That's the big reason why the Deluxe is going to be such an amazing device - it isn't just that it has more capacity, it's that it runs at 12V, so it in addition to 50% more capacity it also delivers a significantly shorter heating time.

*Worth mentioning: Induction heater coils become more efficient as the temperature of the coil and the temperature of the piece being heated increase. Once a DV is up to temp, the Flux's heat-to-click times goes down to the 10-20 second range.

Sorry for the wordiness. Thanks for your support and comments! Keep 'em coming.

 

[mr_cfromcali]

I'll add another quick note about the Flux: I'm hyper-focused on its heating time at the moment, as that's a thing that some people will have no patience for. If you're an impatient DV user, the Flux probably isn't going to be for you. Wait for the Deluxe.

That said, I just spent an hour with it in the backyard, and with a fresh pair of Sony VTC6s it was quite nice. I was using VTC4s this afternoon, but it felt like a stronger performer with the VTC6s.

I'm moving ahead with this one, and I think as long as I am honest and straightforward about its performance, and offer it at a fair price, it's going to be exactly what some people were waiting for.

I have another version of the circuit board coming soon - I moved some components around to make room for an on/off switch and a charge port. It's pretty close to done, pending these last components fitting. I hope to have it ready for sale within 3-4 weeks.

 

[Copacetic]

That's quick progress @mr_cfromcali!

Would a lithium-ion, Li-po or other non swappable cell provide enough voltage to get the size of the Flux down without taking so long to reach the click?

I can't speak for others, but for me your Flux is the most interesting model you're working on, I'd love to have a tiny IH with a reasonably quick heat up.
Even if it meant a hit to longevity and non replacable batteries.

Do those cells that the rc enthusiasts use reach 12V at small sizes?
Maybe they can't provide 10Amps?

I'm picturing your tiny circuit married to one of those rc batt's which are several flat cells together.

Apologies if this is a dumb/old suggestion.

 

[mr_cfromcali]

That's quick progress @mr_cfromcali!

Would a lithium-ion, Li-po or other non swappable cell provide enough voltage to get the size of the Flux down without taking so long to reach the click?

I can't speak for others, but for me your Flux is the most interesting model you're working on, I'd love to have a tiny IH with a reasonably quick heat up.
Even if it meant a hit to longevity and non replacable batteries.

Do those cells that the rc enthusiasts use reach 12V at small sizes?
Maybe they can't provide 10Amps?

I'm picturing your tiny circuit married to one of those rc batt's which are several flat cells together.

Apologies if this is a dumb/old suggestion.

Thanks for your comments and support.

Yes, an RC battery version may show up in the future - I bought a dozen variously sized 12v drone batteries in July for “development”, so now that I have my own circuit board I can move ahead with that once I get these other projects launched - I do hope to make a very small portable in the future, but it will be after the models I have already previewed are stable.

Certainly, let me know what you (@Copacetic and others) want. I may not get to it immediately, but I’ll try to get to it as I can.

 

[Copacetic]

Thanks for your comments and support.

Yes, an RC battery version may show up in the future - I bought a dozen variously sized 12v drone batteries in July for “development”, so now that I have my own circuit board I can move ahead with that once I get these other projects launched - I do hope to make a very small portable in the future, but it will be after the models I have already previewed are stable.

Certainly, let me know what you (@Copacetic and others) want. I may not get to it immediately, but I’ll try to get to it as I can.

My own personal interest is in the smallest IH possible that still heats to click in a reasonable time, and has enough juice to get through say, 10 bowls (I'd happily go as low as 5 bowls though if the reduction in size allowed a really tiny unit!).

I use a recently bought IH at home, but even though it's cordless, it's still too big for portable use (the battery life is almost absurdly long though!).

Best of luck with this endeavour Mr_c

 

[Prophecy]

@mr_cfromcali The Flux Deluxe looks awesome you make fast progress, i'm looking forward to seeing more about it in the future

 

[brewbeer]

What's a reasonable time? Reasonable people can reasonably disagree.

Looks like you have 2 cell and 3 cell models, is there an advantage to a 4 cell unit? Much faster heat up?

Nice work !

 

[mr_cfromcali]

What's a reasonable time? Reasonable people can reasonably disagree.

Looks like you have 2 cell and 3 cell models, is there an advantage to a 4 cell unit? Much faster heat up?

Nice work !

Yes, a 4 cell heater running @ 16V would heat up very quickly, although these smaller, mini-ZVS heaters probably aren't built for more than 15V - I am sure it will run at the higher voltage, but it may not last very long. Also, keep in mind that "faster isn't always better" . You could also run a 4 cell heater at 8V with extra capacity, but that configuration will have similar heat up times to the Flux.

I have some 4x 18650 sleds I picked up last month, sized for the Hammond 1590BB. I was going to give this configuration a try at some point. The circuit generally loves DC power, but some of the individual components may need to be upgraded to run safely @ 16V.

Brief update on the Flux:
I'm waiting on a couple of On/Off-type switches to arrive so I can pick one, due any day. Also finalizing the battery management and charging situation. Another PCB revision is coming, too - a minor rearrangement to make room for the charge port and switch. It's pretty close. I expect to have another update real soon.

 

[Copacetic]

What's a reasonable time? Reasonable people can reasonably disagree.

Looks like you have 2 cell and 3 cell models, is there an advantage to a 4 cell unit? Much faster heat up?

Nice work !

I don't know what's 'reasonable' for everyone else
I'd say 30 seconds is slow, but tolerable if it results in a tiny device (by tiny, I mean relative to existing IH, perhaps the size of a large pocket lighter or a small double 18650 box mod).
I admit that's probably unrealistic ATM.
That's the size that most interests me though.
My current PortSide Mini heats up super-fast, and lasts for DAYS between charges, and I love it, but for portable use I'd really be glad to settle for a longer wait , and a single days capacity.

If you are hoping for a 4 battery model I guess you are more keen to have faster with higher capacity?

 

[Hogni]

Reasonable is not longer than with a single torch I'd say.

 

[mr_cfromcali]

I don't know what's 'reasonable' for everyone else
I'd say 30 seconds is slow, but tolerable if it results in a tiny device (by tiny, I mean relative to existing IH, perhaps the size of a large pocket lighter or a small double 18650 box mod).
I admit that's probably unrealistic ATM.
That's the size that most interests me though.
My current PortSide Mini heats up super-fast, and lasts for DAYS between charges, and I love it, but for portable use I'd really be glad to settle for a longer wait , and a single days capacity.

If you are hoping for a 4 battery model I guess you are more keen to have faster with higher capacity?

Well...I'd say 30 seconds is pokey, but I hate using a torch a lot, and speaking for myself, I'd take a 30 second heat up time over using a torch. But that's just me.

So I did quite a bit of research into the power supply and charging circuits for this 2x 18650 heater, and this is where things stand:

I can wire this device so that the heater runs on 12V when attached to a mains power supply via a 12V adapter. This will be great for desktop use, as it will be as fast as any other 12V IH. It would then automatically switch to 8.4V operation when unplugged from the wall charger. The battery management system - which is balanced, meaning both batteries will charge evenly - will allow the 8.4V batteries to charge safely from a 12V source.

The device is small and portable, but in portable mode it isn't quick. My testing is showing that with a full charged battery and a cold DV, the first attempt to heat a cold piece typically takes 30 seconds, with this dropping to 10-15 seconds once the coil and piece being heated are a bit above ambient temp. Once up to temp you can get a nice rhythm going, so it's really just that initial toke that takes a while. But it does take a while.

I have a few other parts I am evaluating - some different gage wire for the heater coil, and some different capacitors - but this seems to be the way this heater behaves at 8.4V. I think it's light weight and usable, and if I release it, it will be the smallest unit available.

User Feedback Request: I'm at a point where I need to hear from you, my potential customers: I can definitely build this device, but I need to know if anyone plans to buy one. If no one wants an 8.4V heater, I'll put it on the shelf and switch my focus to the 12V Deluxe, which shouldn't have any issues with heating time.

With regards to the Flux's power supply, I have a few choices (this is where I could use some feedback):

1. Heater runs @12V when powered via a 12V wall adapter, but it automatically switches to 8.4V when removed from the adapter.

Advantages: Best possible heater performance when plugged in - basically becomes a very tiny full power desktop IH
Disadvantages: It will require some extra components to make this power arrangement work, so this may add $10-$15 to the price. It will also take a couple of weeks to engineer.
Possible Price: For argument's sake, let's say this brings the price to approx. $125- $135, batteries and wall power adapter NOT included.

2. Heater runs @8.4V (and charges the batteries) when powered via an 8.4V wall adapter.

Advantages: Simplified wiring, so cheaper to make.
Disadvantages: The inherent time lag of 8.4V heating could make this device kind of frustrating to use.
Possible Price: For argument's sake, let's say this brings the price to approx. $100-$110, 8.4V power adapter included; batteries NOT included.

3. Heater runs @8.4V via batteries, allows 8.4V charging via a USB connection.

Advantages: Simplified wiring (cheaper to make), USB charging
Disadvantages: This wiring arrangement runs from batteries only, so it has the disadvantage of 8.4V heating. It also has the disadvantage that is will be possible to deplete the batteries through moderate use before they've had a chance to recharge. I don't see this as a great option, but it's an option if USB charging is a desired feature.
Possible Price: For argument's sake, let's say this brings the price to approx. $90-$100, power adapter NOT included; batteries NOT included.

Thoughts on these options? I need to choose one.

Does anyone see themselves getting this, or will you all wait for the Deluxe? (Assuming you are planning on buying one of my heaters at some point...)

 

[Gray Area]

I'd like option 1 I reckon... the price increase isn't too much, and the benefits when plugged in far outweigh the few more $$$'s

 

[Monsoon]

At this point I'm going to wait for the Deluxe version. I prefer the faster heating time when unplugged as well as the extra battery.

 

[Copacetic]

#1 would be the one for me too, but I'm fully aware that I'm probably in a minority and wouldn't want to lead you down a rabbit hole where you'll only sell a tiny handfull of heaters!

#1 does have the advantage of 'normal' heating times whilst plugged in, and I too think that's a big plus.

 

[mr_cfromcali]

I'd like option 1 I reckon... the price increase isn't too much, and the benefits when plugged in far outweigh the few more $$$'s

At this point I'm going to wait for the Deluxe version. I prefer the faster heating time when unplugged as well as the extra battery.

#1 would be the one for me too, but I'm fully aware that I'm probably in a minority and wouldn't want to lead you down a rabbit hole where you'll only sell a tiny handfull of heaters!

#1 does have the advantage of 'normal' heating times whilst plugged in, and I too think that's a big plus.

Thanks for the quick responses.

I agree that running the heater @ 12V when possible is the best choice - we are all in agreement on that point.

My concern is that building out this unit to its full 12V/8.4V potential is going to push its price to within $15
of what the Deluxe will likely sell for (the Deluxe's target price is $150, FWIW - still working on completing the design, so that's just a target and could change.)

The Flux was more compelling before I realized how close I was to making the Deluxe happen. Now that the Deluxe is waiting in the wings, I am having a hard time making a good case for the Flux, other than, "I think I can have it ready a few weeks sooner than the Deluxe."

So for argument's sake, if the Flux is ~$135 and the Deluxe is ~$150 (with similar desktop performance and much better portable performance)...who's gonna buy the Flux? Seriously - are any of you considering buying the Flux?

Does an 8.4V-only Flux have any more appeal if it were priced a lot cheaper - say around $100, including the mains power charging adapter? Hmmm....I don't know that it does. This is option #2 above, BTW.

Both the Flux and the Deluxe need more design time - "a little," and "more", respectively - but beyond that their needs are very different at this point, so working on one delays work on the other.

My gut says that I should probably drop the Flux and just focus on the Deluxe, as that's the one people (i.e., you) will really want, so...if you want a Flux, please speak up! Unless I know it has some customers, it may not see the light of day.

Thanks again for the feedback!

 

[Hackerman]

As far as making a purchase, definitely performance over size (unless the size difference were more dramatic). We're talking 1 battery size difference, right? Hardly seems worth a performance hit to save less than 1 battery worth of space.

As for making it cheaper.... don't worry, if it's any good, we can buy a copy on Alibaba for $5 later on. LOL

I am still hoping for the PWM model. I have definitely found that a variable heating is way better than a straight heatup. Way way better. Better taste. Better clouds. And, more hits per load.

I also have my suspicions that the different coils (thick vs thin wire) may also have something to do with it.

Which ever you do, put me on the list. I'll take whichever comes off the line first. LOL I need a 7th induction heater. LOL

 

[mr_cfromcali]

As far as making a purchase, definitely performance over size (unless the size difference were more dramatic). We're talking 1 battery size difference, right? Hardly seems worth a performance hit to save less than 1 battery worth of space.

The Flux and the Deluxe share the same 1590B enclosure, so the space savings (or loss) is all internal. The difference between the two amounts to a volume equal to about one 18650 cell - I need 100% of that space in the Deluxe, whereas the Flux only needs about 50%. That said, the Deluxe is going to be a very tight fit. But I agree - they share an enclosure size, but one is going to noticeably out-perform the other.

I am still hoping for the PWM model. I have definitely found that a variable heating is way better than a straight heatup. Way way better. Better taste. Better clouds. And, more hits per load."

Well, I'm still selling the desktop PWM units, so I can certainly fix you up with one if you want . As for a portable PWM IH heater - I built a prototype of portable PWM unit for myself. It works well enough but the packaging isn't ideal. It needs some more design work, and there are several devices ahead of it in line. This is a device that will benefit from the other work I do to get the deluxe ready, since they will probably use the same power management circuit and parts.

Which ever you do, put me on the list. I'll take whichever comes off the line first. LOL I need a 7th induction heater. LOL

Lol. Will do.

 

[mr_cfromcali]

Hi all,

Couple of quick early Sunday updates:

Fluxer Grande: The battery management boards I was waiting on finally arrived, so I expect to complete the first batch tomorrow, or at least get very close. I will have a couple of extra Grandes available, so it's not too late to get one if you want one.

Fluxer Flux: The announcement of the Deluxe killed demand for the Flux, so I’ve made the difficult decision to keep this one on the shelf. C'est la vie. It works fine, but the Deluxe will do all that this does and a lot more, in the same size enclosure, so I'll just chalk this one up to "R&D". Thanks for your feedback!

Fluxer Flux Deluxe: Actively being developed. I have a new, more compact circuit board revision coming this week. I still need to free up a little space to fit the charge port, so still a work in progress.

The Mother Fluxer: Another new model*, but one I actually started working on several months ago.

This packs 3x 26650 IH into a Hammond 1590BB enclosure! It runs on 12V. It has a high temp, push-tip-to-activate tactile switch under the coil. This model brings capacity, with a side of amperage. Its mission is maximum power in a modestly sized enclosure.

This one still needs a little work - specifically, I am still finalizing the grill and how it is held in place, but apart from that, this one is done.

List price will be $125-$135 + shipping, depending on the final parts.

I’ll have more info on this one very soon!

*This is the last of my stalled projects. Like the others, it was held up pending a working, compact circuit.

I built the original version of this IH to take on a July camping trip; I wanted max capacity since I wasn't going to be able to recharge easily. That version was very handy, but also very hand-made. This version uses my own circuit board and is both more compact and a much cleaner build. It also has an excellent battery management circuit - this one features balanced charging and is 25A capable.

3x 26650 =

My current plans are to focus on the Mother Fluxer and Deluxe portables, as those seem like really solid IHs. I haven't forgotten your previous requests, and I'll continue to work on developing an even smaller portable IH, but if you have a minute, please let me know what you think about this new one.

If you know you want one, please send me a PM, and I'll start a list. I don't see a long delay before I start the first batch.

Cheers,

 

[Fat Freddy]

Hey there,
Your work and pace of progression is very impressive! Few questions from this lay person, if you will?

Why is there a grill, rather than a "solid" enclosure?

Does the grill in any way increase the possibility of a electrical short, battery thermal runaway etc by possibly presenting a sharp edge/snag on the battery wraps?

Are the batteries replaceable?

What safety system(s) are built into the unit, e.g., overcharge protection?

TIA!

.

 

[Hogni]

First we have to ask whether this design of the enclosure shall be the final version.

 

[elykpeace]

@Fat Freddy I agree about the grill. Looks like an accident waiting to happen imo. Maybe mount grill to a solid peice for the look. I don't understand the application given how dangerous shorting a lithium cell can be ... Let alone 3!!!!!

Other then that looks cool @mr_cfromcali

 

[mr_cfromcali]

Hey there,
Your work and pace of progression is very impressive! Few questions from this lay person, if you will?

Why is there a grill, rather than a "solid" enclosure?

Does the grill in any way increase the possibility of a electrical short, battery thermal runaway etc by possibly presenting a sharp edge/snag on the battery wraps?

Are the batteries replaceable?

What safety system(s) are built into the unit, e.g., overcharge protection?

TIA!

.

Thanks for the questions! I'll try to answer these questions in turn, but I want to put the first answer in bold, as it seems like a common one.

Q: So what's the deal with the grill?

A: The grill was a solution to a fitment issue: the battery management circuit board is firmly mounted to the underside of the battery sled. The sled sits on legs to keep it a fixed height above the floor of the enclosure, so the battery management circuit has airflow for cooling and isn't touching anything. All of this raises the batteries 2-3mm, putting them above the rim of the enclosure. I need to hold them in place, and I need to protect them, while at the same time, I also want the device to have adequate airflow and venting. I saw the grill as a clean solution to accomplishing all of these goals.

> Does the grill in any way increase the possibility of a electrical short, battery thermal runaway etc by possibly presenting a sharp edge/snag on the battery wraps?

I don't think it does, but I hear your concerns. I have safety in mind as I build these - no one wants a fire or injury!!! - and I think this one is safe, but at the same time, it's holding 30A-60A of power. It isn't meant to be tossed around.

The grill is one potential solution. It seemed like a good idea as I was considering the possibilities, but it isn't the only idea or solution. I have some other ideas about how to make this work.

Yes, the batteries are replaceable. And can be charged in the device, too.

First we have to ask whether this design of the enclosure shall be the final version.

I don't know, lol. I was happy with it, but I sense some concerns, so we'll need to see if you guys like and trust it. The "tub" holding the Mother Fluxer's internals, the heater, and battery management circuits are pretty much set, but the top of the device can be changed.

So I suppose the answer is, "Nope, the enclosure is still in progress."

@Fat Freddy I agree about the grill. Looks like an accident waiting to happen imo. Maybe mount grill to a solid peice for the look. I don't understand the application given how dangerous shorting a lithium cell can be ... Let alone 3!!!!!

Other then that looks cool @mr_cfromcali

Concerns noted.

I'm not cavalier about these batteries and I believe this design will be safe when used as I intend it to be. That said, I am sensing you guys like the size and form factor but want a different arrangement for the top - something that closes fully.

Message received, which is the benefit of soliciting feedback. Back to the shop. Stay tuned for future developments

 

[Fat Freddy]

Well, I actually like the grill both aesthetically and functionally but without actually seeing it in hand it's difficult to judge whether or not it poses a threat to the battery's physical integrity. And of course you are the expert so I think it's safe to assume you would want a safe unit for yourself, so in that regard there's sort of a built-in trust with you.

At the same time, many of us here on FC have a real BIG preference for wood enclosures, just saying.

TIA