Siebter

Less soul, more mind
It not real convection as far as a true convection vape is.... and you can taste/sense the diff as well.

Yeah, of course the DVs are not convection vapes and I am sure the majority of the heat transfer is conduction. But as you draw, you shove heat from the cap via the grooves of the tip into the chamber (at least that's how George explains it) – so I'd say it's a hybrid.
 

LabPong

Well-Known Member
Yeah, of course the DVs are not convection vapes and I am sure the majority of the heat transfer is conduction. But as you draw, you shove heat from the cap via the grooves of the tip into the chamber (at least that's how George explains it) – so I'd say it's a hybrid.

In theory....totally...It is just that the load is already baked even before that air comes in side....but the most amount of convection that it would have...would be mainly on first draw I would think. Quite the rabbit hole here huh....lol
 

seki

Well-Known Member
I co-ordered a TI-Tip for a friend with my last order from vapshop and for me the BB9 glas stem and the little rippa glass from easy flow.
Yesterday that order arrived and I noticed some differences in the TI-Tip compared to my existing Gen6 TI-Tip, the cutouts on the rim are slightly wider and deeper but the spiral channels on the outside are slightly narrower in width than on my existing Tip.

For illustration I have taken a photo of it, not that I have a problem with my Tip it works and does his job but why is there so a difference on the same Tip generation?
View attachment 1408View attachment 1409


So and at the end a nice cloudy full session video with my new glass piece the setup is OmniXl with condenser full extendet on smallest bowl setting and a low temp cap heated with my skeletor induction heater. :smug:


Despite using my VapCaps daily, I haven't really been following the goings on with Dynavap. I haven't purchased a new VapCap in well over a year at this point, so my apologies if this is old news, but I came across this post on reddit today, and this tip looks to be decidedly different than any Ti tip I've got. Has a new Ti tip revision been announced? Below is the pic from the reddit post, the grooves are much wider and it looks as if there are fewer compared to the pics here and any of my more recent tips.
newtip.jpg

It was just posted, but there was no other info other than "I got a new tip!". Does anyone have any info on this?
 

thunderstealer1337

Well-Known Member
my ti tip doesnt look like that and looks more like the brown one..... it has 4 grooves instead of 3

their qc is a lil lacking imo - i have 2 2020 tips and they are drastically different - its posted in this thread a few pages back, have you seen the crazy posts on reddit stating machining chips are being left in and ppl are literarlly sucking them up on 1st inhale?

Big chips too!

lol someone thumb down - i didnt even know you can do that about my post on cvaps lol
 

BabyFacedFinster

Anything worth doing, is worth overdoing.
The 7 fin tip I have needs a bit more airflow. I see that the cut outs on the distal end are pretty shallow compared to my 19M tip. Now I'd like to improve the airflow by filing or drilling those cut outs a little deeper, BUT I tried this with a c-vap tip and butchered the damn thing up. I tried a small file and did get them a bit deeper but it ended up looking awful and didn't improve airflow.

I wonder what would be the most effective way of doing this? Maybe a particular grinding bit on a dremel?
 
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thunderstealer1337

Well-Known Member
The biggest airflow increase I experienced was the ti tip, it sits so looosey goosey, a few times when it clicks, the cap almost shot off the tip, and this is me squeezing the poop making it look like a egg already.

Its so awkward, i have to use a captive cap on my ti, but i really enjoy the ti/low temp cap.
 

TommyDee

Vaporitor
They just look prettier when they are brand spanking new :D I do see the difference in the one in the middle of the 3 - the groove width is narrower. But the left and tight are identical except for the tarnish. Apparently the machinist(s) has/have a lot of leeway or that's the best they can do to meet a 'best effort' print.
 
TommyDee,
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Bad Dog

Yeah I pissed on the rug...... so what
Just tried the mesh screen method and I’m left a little confused yet enticed? The first hit did feel a little freer flowing but I wasn’t sure so I went back for a second hit and again yeah a bit better third hit I noticed my dynavap making a slight hiss, forth hit something went a miss it never hit at full force and died early. I thought maybe I miscounted and it was my fifth so I opened it up and it was lite ? I scratched my head and almost repacked it but decided to pack another bowl and pay more attention. But the same thing happened? I’ve never had the vapour quit with such light avb in my dynavap. Is that normal?
1094448F-E0DA-456D-B371-E507926CB835.jpeg
 
Bad Dog,

Stu

Maconheiro
Staff member
You can try to figure out what % of convection it might be, as small as it most likely is.....but it's very different in use results.
But as you draw, you shove heat from the cap via the grooves of the tip into the chamber (at least that's how George explains it) – so I'd say it's a hybrid.
This chart shows an experiment I did that might shed some light on this subject.
vapcap-m-w-induction-heater-incl-2-draws-w-comments.jpg


As you can see, the rate of temp increase did go up a bit at the start of the hit, but just a bit. Note that on the second draw, you can see how the incoming air increases the rate of temp decrease. :science:

:peace:
 
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cilantro

Flavor Chaser/Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦✊
Hmm, I'm so fascinated by this, and didn't even mean to re-up the conduction/convection topic with vapcap thermodynamics. @Stu does this imply that the temp increase at the start of the draw is boosted by the draw itself (using airport air), or simply a temperature ramp up due to the introduction of heat source? I'm sure this was figured out 1000's of pages ago, so apologies if so! I wish I paid more attention in high school science class.
Wondering if this would lead me to prefer single draws - heat once, draw, click, repeat.
 

Stu

Maconheiro
Staff member
@Stu does this imply that the temp increase at the start of the draw is boosted by the draw itself (using airport air)
Yes, but only slightly.
or simply a temperature ramp up due to the introduction of heat source?
I'm not sure what you mean here. The heat source (induction heater) starts in the beginning. The air in the beginning of the draw is transferring some heat from the freshly heated cap/stem, but it is short-lived as the chart shows.

:peace:
 

Ramahs

Fucking Combustion (mostly) Since February 2017
Thi


This chart shows an experiment I did that might shed some light on this subject.
vapcap-m-w-induction-heater-incl-2-draws-w-comments.jpg


As you can see, the rate of temp increase did go up a bit at the start of the hit, but just a bit. Note that on the second draw, you can see how the incoming air increases the rate of temp decrease. :science:

:peace:


Just curious, what was the method of monitoring the temperature?
 

Bad Dog

Yeah I pissed on the rug...... so what
@Bad Dog - did the screen change the draw resistance?
I'd have to say it did but not a night and day difference , I think it might even be a little better if I don't pack my bowl as much I tend to cram it in. I guess I must have gotten bigger hits as well for my bud too give up the ghost so early. I'll definitely be doing some more experimenting
 

TommyDee

Vaporitor
I'd have to say it did but not a night and day difference , I think it might even be a little better if I don't pack my bowl as much I tend to cram it in. I guess I must have gotten bigger hits as well for my bud too give up the ghost so early. I'll definitely be doing some more experimenting
The secret ingredient is oxygen. Agreed that you got better air flow even a little is a lot in a VC. I went through a sad period with my '18 tip. It was always restricted. The few times it had a good draw, I would savor it as it was not the norm. I got vape but nothing thick and rich when air didn't flow well. Mouth pulls and sheer persistence got what I needed out of the herb but it was never fun. And this is -after- I removed the restriction of the cap.

What I realized is from another time in my life. Oxygen really stirs up the 'clouds'. It somehow -reacts- with the herb. Without oxygen, you can get a full dose and never see anything. What I attribute the difference to is two fold. 1) Heavy condensed vape condenses easily and doesn't generally make for visual 'vape' It is in essence, condensed when it leaves the herb because the extraction was hot enough to liberate more particles at the same time. They weren't separated in an 'orderly fashion' so to speak. And being heavier, they have little reason to react with oxygen because the surface are is 'compacted'. These are not scientific terms, but terms I can understand in behavior.
The second is the Cloudy Fluffy Stuff. You slowly liberate each density of molecule in an orderly fashion (temp stepping). Each molecule will be oxygenated and turn 'visible'. They are thin and have a hard time settling, or condensing on anything. You blow the cloud because it is to 'whispy' to stick. Eventually you start getting the heavier molecules and they stick fine and the 'clouds' go away as expected.

Now I've given you two scenarios of how we can extract vape. This is where my observations end and speculation begins. Of couse, where input from knowledgeable people is very welcome. In my book, I say that the inclusion of the lighter elements trapped in the heavier elements accomplishes delivery where in the stepping model with poor retention is a loss. This could be backwards and I should just settle down and spend a hour with load. I can't do that. That would mean 6 hours medicating. I don't chase clouds. I want medicine. I can 'feel', by physical pressure, when I get a full and satisfying draw.

And FWIW, I do understand how important air-flow is in this process. You can do both of the above types of extraction very well and very efficiently with a good breathing vapcap. If you can't hear air rushing past the cap, you're loosing out. I've seen vape in my glass vials that I use in my IH coils. Where in the hell does that come from? I promise you, it is your vape not getting not getting to the target. The big difference I find between satisfying full draws and whispy cloudiness is draw speed. Therefore, if you never got a VC to 'breathe'. then you could never experience that temp stepping. The vape just liberated and condensed with heavier vapes anyway, if not utterly destroyed from heat. And as described above, in order to chase clouds, you need a low draw restriction. This is one of the reasons I believe in cloud chasing. Much like the torch, you should know what you're missing. However, in my experience, cloud chasing is not only a waste, it is ineffective. If I do a full one-hit extraction of say 3/4 full cap, there won't be a cloud if I did it right. And I'll be suppressing a cough for the next few minutes to loosen up the cilia you just glued together.
 

cilantro

Flavor Chaser/Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦✊
I used a K-type thermocouple that was placed in the middle of the herb chamber. I had to create a special screen with a hole in it to feed the t/c into the chamber.

:peace:
@Stu - did you do comparison tests, for example, taking the first draw later after the click? I'm really interested what the heat profile looks like between click and draw during different scenarios. Thanks for this info! I remember seeing your chart before, but just trying to ponder it more.
 

LabPong

Well-Known Member
And FWIW, I do understand how important air-flow is in this process. You can do both of the above types of extraction very well and very efficiently with a good breathing vapcap. If you can't hear air rushing past the cap, you're loosing out.

bingo!



I'd have to say it did but not a night and day difference , I think it might even be a little better if I don't pack my bowl as much I tend to cram it in. I guess I must have gotten bigger hits as well for my bud too give up the ghost so early. I'll definitely be doing some more experimenting

I could tell by your avb that you probably packed too tight. Try to just pack one with very little tamping down pressure...just enough to get it flat below the top. Don't worry about how many draws you will get....just do this to see if you can get quicker bigger hits.
 

Stu

Maconheiro
Staff member
@Stu - did you do comparison tests, for example, taking the first draw later after the click? I'm really interested what the heat profile looks like between click and draw during different scenarios. Thanks for this info! I remember seeing your chart before, but just trying to ponder it more.
I did a few tests and charted them, yes. I'll have to take a look later on to see what they were exactly. I'll post them here if I feel they are relevant.

:peace:
 

TommyDee

Vaporitor
Imagine connecting that K-type thermocouple to an intelligent IH controller :science: "The Perfect Draw!"


I should add something to the VC 'Breathing'. Part of the physical nature of heating herb is expansion of the herb. This will increase restriction to a significant degree. This is your vape expanding and trying to get out. It is this moment that max extraction is possible if you can snag it. It's a suck time for air to stop flowing due to the expansion. All the more reason to meter the bowl to what you can extract easily. Think of it as "muffin tops". You get all that great extraction in draws one and two but you know you can't just bin the remainder. Getting it to burst more vape out of the flower without the back-loading from within is a lot harder without some much better control over the temperature. There is simply too much hysteresis behind the click tech to effectively manage temperature to any reliable degree. We hit a 'broad range' of temps as we utilize our VC's and do 'well enough' to extract what we want from it.
 
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Bad Dog

Yeah I pissed on the rug...... so what
Busted out the delta 3D studios scoop and did a little shovel work, loaded a full but loose load. First hit was even freer than yesterday's and felt big for the warm up, second hit I'm hearing a louder hiss and it's big, felt upward of 25% bigger than my regular hit, third hit was about the same as one of my regular hits and forth was strictly clean up an not impactful. Avb was a little darker but still not as dark as my usual. I'm a little torn, for my daytime micro dosing I might prefer the slower full 5 hits I get with the ccd. I've been doing it that way for some time and like how far I can stretch 1 load but I do like the improvements to the air flow and a quicker session for those middle of the night wake ups sounds good too, I could easily just take the 3 good hits vape 2 back to back in ruffly the time it takes 1 with the ccd 😎 I don't like the idea of switching daily so I might have to pick up another tip and wpa maybe a low temp cap.......... dam vas😩 But for now I'll keep playing with the screen , I'm pretty impressed.
 
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