Dynavap VapCap

[OF]

Exactly what Ive been trying to express, but you are a much better 'splainer than I.

This is a primarily conduction device verified by real world testing and im not sure why its been debated so much in the first place.

I'm just better at it from experience. You know, talking my way out of tight situations? You should catch my act if you have a gun and badge........

Kidding aside (for just a moment), I used to get paid to teach this good stuff. I recommend retirement, however.

I think such talk keeps coming up because guys want their vapes to be convection since they 'read it on the web' that that is superior to conduction. And, of course, Sales types, ever eager as they are, are actively promoting it. 'Combination Convection/Conduction' is an oxymoron. That is by the rules both can't be true in cases like this. Hot enough for convection eliminates conduction as a possibility. And the other way around (as the OP put it, the cap can't get hot enough to heat enough air to be of use.

There's a 'specific heat' factor (some materials take more calories to heat the same mass the same amount) but ignoring that factor consider if you want to raise say 1/10 gram of herb 180C (18 gram degrees) you'd need 18 gram degrees of heat from hot air, right? So you could do it with .1 grams of air delivered at 380C? .1 gram of air is a pretty big volume. While you can heat to very high temperatures (like butane fire, or 1300F) in some vapes, clearly 380C is out of the question in VC?

IMO convection isn't automatically better (heat is heat), but typically are easier to keep clean which we all appreciate?

Such amazing info these days! The stuff you can learn here is one of the major reasons I joined this forum and thread! So great to see so many analytical minds.

Amen to that, Lady. Almost all come here to learn. I've learned an amazing amount about this narrow field in the past couple of years, thanks to some truly great/helpful folks. Relatively free of the BS you find on lesser forums.

Great photos! Artistic. Do you 'come by it honestly'? That is professionally? Great use of contrast and depth of focus! Classic stuff.

OF

 

[wilky]

Such amazing info these days! The stuff you can learn here is one of the major reasons I joined this forum and thread! So great to see so many analytical minds.

Ι 've been using my M7 (lol reminds me of Leica, sorry) condenserless for a week, so I decided I'd finally put my Cocobolo stem to use. I was waiting to get the whole xls-mouthpiece-tip-cap set-up, but realized that it was just silly to do so. So I legoed the M7 condenser and the omni Tip and I'm loving it. Is it me or does the position of the carb on the NonaVong stem make for higher draw restriction? So all I gotta get (for) now is a Ti tip and a cap... Maybe I'll get an xls Ti condenser when the European retailers make 'em available.

Ι was waiting to see if your issue would be resolved! And, yaaaay! Very happy for you!

 

[Dynavaper]

Nude selfies incoming. It's all your own fault, gentlemen!

I just googled 'Nude photography" and I obviously always did it wrong:

And if you wonder why I am doing the @stark1 here: One bottle of french wine and 3 Vapcaps with Cinderella99. Any questions left?

 

[Quint]

And a S.T. Dupont Défi Extrême with a retail price of 200€? Beautiful! But before I ever considered spending such an amount of money on a lighter I’d expect a true lifetime (my lifetime) warranty.

Admittedly the warranty policy is pretty lame. I ended up getting it new for around $130 USD, that being said. I would have gladly paid the $180ish they go for on ebay after owning it. I can use a VC while walking, even if it's really windy. I don't ever have to warm it in my hands if it's cold.. It just simply works. The flame always perfectly matches the dial regardless of how much fuel is remaining. For me, the engineering behind this gorgeous lighter is well worth the cost. I went through maybe 5 torches before settling on this one. Second favorite is probably my Xikar Trezo, but it's useless if there's any wind.

 

[hinglemccringleberry]

How is my thinking flawed? Your experimental procedure is WRONG, you're not using the device as intended and producing the results you want to see. When you have no airflow there's no convective heating. You're cooking the herb via conduction and then stating that it's cooking it through conduction and there for it's primarily conduction.

Your method of heating, the time it takes to click, airflow through the piece, how long you wait until you draw, etc ,etc ,etc all change the ratio of conduction and convection in a Vapcap. Slow heating = more time for conduction, Fast heating = Less time for conduction.

The reason it's debated is because Vapcaps are a hybrid that varies with each user and model. There's no definitive answer.

Sorry. I forgot that you live on Venus where the ambient temp is definitely hot enough to produce a much larger amount of convection when you use your Vapcap compared to using it here on Earth

What you're basically admitting without realizing it is that the VC produces about as much convection as my Alfa, a classic conduction session vape that also offgasses vapor when you're not drawing.

When you create airflow thru the VC, the heat produced makes it stay hot enough to keep conduction going, not hot enough to create any substantial amount of convection. There is ailttle bit occurring, and the ratio can vary a bit like you said, but it's never the majority.

 

[Dynavaper]

Sorry. I forgot that you live on Venus where the ambient temp is definitely hot enough to produce a much larger amount of convection when you use your Vapcap compared to using it here on Earth

What you're basically admitting without realizing it is that the VC produces about as much convection as my Alfa, a classic conduction session vape that also offgasses vapor when you're not drawing.

@Quint: Beautiful lighter and wonderful stem! Congrats!

 

[Lady V]

Great photos! Artistic. Do you 'come by it honestly'? That is professionally? Great use of contrast and depth of focus! Classic stuff.

Thank you!!! No, I'm a musician professionaly! Photography is just a very very beloved hobby!

 

[Squiby]

@Dynavaper you're my hero!

I never get tired of Damascus steel. Stunning, beautiful, sophisticated.

 

[Dynavaper]

So that's Damascus steel... Stunningly beautiful, indeed!

 

[Winegums]

Sorry. I forgot that you live on Venus where the ambient temp is definitely hot enough to produce a much larger amount of convection when you use your Vapcap compared to using it here on Earth

1/10 on the troll attempt, Are you upset that your testing method is flawed or something?

What you're basically admitting without realizing it is that the VC produces about as much convection as my Alfa, a classic conduction session vape that also offgasses vapor when you're not drawing.

How did you get that out of what I said? You're not explaining yourself, I have no idea what an Afla is besides an unreliable automobile.

When you create airflow thru the VC, the heat produced makes it stay hot enough to keep conduction going, not hot enough to create any substantial amount of convection. There is ailttle bit occurring, and the ratio can vary like you said, but it's never the majority.

huh? So if it's not hot enough to create any substantial amount of* convective heating wouldn't it cool down everything? This wouldn't keep the conduction going, this would halt the progress of the conduction and vapour production would slow down as soon as you draw through it. Vapor production ramps up after I start drawing in my experience, this is opposes this idea.

Have you ever heated up a metal tube, blown through it and felt the air coming out on the other side? Do you know what a heat exchanger is? A vapcap tip and cap form an excellent heat exchanger by forcing air around the hot cap and tip which heats it up just like running through a hot tube. There's more than enough surface area to heat up that super thin layer of air before it reaches the herb.

 

[OF]

Thank you!!! No, I'm a musician professionaly! Photography is just a very very beloved hobby!

Hobbies are great, but IMO unless you're "missed your calling". Few indeed can control black and white to get such results. Even resorting to color and extensive editing.

I'm betting your home has some very nice photos on the walls? Ansel Adams would be impressed, though he'd likely tell you to 'stop it down' to get more DOF........

"f64" indeed.

Thanks for sharing them.

OF

 

[LabPong]

@Dynavaper you're my hero!

[QUOTE="Quint, post: 1259069, member: 20036"

I never get tired of Damascus steel. Stunning, beautiful, sophisticated.[/QUOTE]



I am definitely a glass no carb body kinda guy......lol

But that Damascus steel is beautiful. I like that over anything I have seen so far in VC bodies. But still will not put down the glass bodies.

 

[MegaMan2k]

Im in a lighter/torch crisis,
Amy suggestions ?

 

[Dynavaper]

Okay. I am in love. Seriously. Anyone with a Damascus steel body/stem willing to sell it? Contact me via PM. We‘ll have a great time.

 

[stardustsailor]

There's a 'specific heat' factor (some materials take more calories to heat the same mass the same amount) but ignoring that factor consider if you want to raise say 1/10 gram of herb 180C (18 gram degrees) you'd need 18 gram degrees of heat from hot air, right? So you could do it with .1 grams of air delivered at 380C?* .1 gram of air is a pretty big volume. While you can heat to very high temperatures (like butane fire, or 1300F) in some vapes, clearly 380C is out of the question in VC?

OF

Agreed.
But in case you had to raise say 1/10 gram of herb only 50°C ?
From 130°C to 180°C .
That is only 5 gram degrees of heat from hot air ,right ?
Or 0.1 gram of air delivered at 50°C .

At 50°C atm.air has a density of about 1,1 kg /m^3 .
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/air-properties-d_156.html
0.1 gram of air ( = 100 mg = 0.0001 kgr )at 50°C has a volume of ~ 90 ml .

All it takes is 90 ml of hot air at 50°C ,
to rise the temperature of 100mg of herb ,from 130°C to 180°C .

( * It should be 180°C and not 380°C ,right ? )

Cheers.


( Note : My own average slow draw on carbless VapCaps has a volume of 40-45 ml.
Tested with a loaded VC ,sucking into water and then measured the volume of water drawn
inside the mouth cavity.The method is not precise -as water has greater viscosity than air and that alone creates higher flow resistance,thus decreased volume of sucked fluid .
So ,most probably my draw is more than 40-45 ml of volume ,when it comes to air and not water .Maybe even double ,close to 90 ml .)

 

[mrb]

@Lady V
You mentioned the airflow in your vong stem being tighter than your other stem. . . Are you aware t's the 'wrong' way around in your picture?

The air port will be getting blocked by the x-rings on the condenser when the stem is that way around. Even with out the x-rings being in the way, the extra distance the air would have to travel would also increase restriction a bit.. .

 

[beyond6strings]

Who knew the discussion on conduction/convection could get so heated?

 

[VanCough]

Admittedly the warranty policy is pretty lame. I ended up getting it new for around $130 USD, that being said. I would have gladly paid the $180ish they go for on ebay after owning it. I can use a VC while walking, even if it's really windy. I don't ever have to warm it in my hands if it's cold.. It just simply works. The flame always perfectly matches the dial regardless of how much fuel is remaining. For me, the engineering behind this gorgeous lighter is well worth the cost. I went through maybe 5 torches before settling on this one. Second favorite is probably my Xikar Trezo, but it's useless if there's any wind.

That is a sexy pairing you have there.

Not to piss you or anyone else off, but I'd just like to highlight the fact that that is not damascus steel. It is damascus styled steel.

Interestingly, the technique used to make genuine damascus steel has been lost to history.

 

[cybrguy]

Who knew the discussion on conduction/convection could get so heated?

Ahahahahah... Thanks.

 

[just_the_flu]

...i had to triple check to ensure i wasn't in the solo thread

 

[hinglemccringleberry]

1/10 on the troll attempt, Are you upset that your testing method is flawed or something?

.

I'm not upset about anything but it sure sounds like you are over the scientifically demonstrable fact that the VC is a majority conduction hybrid.

 

[stardustsailor]

That is a sexy pairing you have there.

Not to piss you or anyone else off, but I'd just like to highlight the fact that that is not damascus steel. It is damascus styled steel.

Interestingly, the technique used to make genuine damascus steel has been lost to history.

You are right .Today's "damascus steel" is replicating just the looks of the original Damascus steel .
Still ,we are unaware of the actual method used to make the original Damascus steel ,
which consisted of a single steel alloy and not two different ones .

 

[Lady V]

@Lady V
You mentioned the airflow in your vong stem being tighter than your other stem. . . Are you aware t's the 'wrong' way around in your picture?

The air port will be getting blocked by the x-rings on the condenser when the stem is that way around. Even with out the x-rings being in the way, the extra distance the air would have to travel would also increase restriction a bit.. .

Lol! I'm an idiot! No wonder the tip felt a bit loose in that end. But honestly I love the way it works! It's been working better than the omni cloud-wise. Thanks for pointing this out (I'm so absent-minded all the time... and the caps aren't helping either)

Hobbies are great, but IMO unless you're "missed your calling". Few indeed can control black and white to get such results. Even resorting to color and extensive editing.

I'm betting your home has some very nice photos on the walls? Ansel Adams would be impressed, though he'd likely tell you to 'stop it down' to get more DOF........

"f64" indeed.

Thanks for sharing them.

OF

(OFF TOPIC, SORRY)

It's a fixed 35mm equivalent lense, so the DOF is not very pleasing. But I do have a 50mm adapter. Just didn't use it this time. The pics above are just "fancy" snapshots. Didn't give it as much time as I usually do.

I got no pics of mine on the walls and Ansel Adams would knock my camera off my hands. But you 're very kind! Thank you!

 

[Marlon Rando]

Have you tried touching the tip (without the cap) 2 seconds after heating the cap to the hot click? (2 seconds being the time it takes to remove the cap real quick with a glove protecting your skin)? I sure cant. If you can, you should apply to be one of the Avengers

Having worked in the Culinary Industry for over 15 years, my hands and finger tips have gone through hell and back, their pain threshold is extremely high, holding a hot VC briefly isn't bothersome

 

[OF]

Agreed.
But in case you had to raise say 1/10 gram of herb only 50°C ?
From 130°C to 180°C .

So 2/3 plus of that heating is from conduction? Not that I buy the math (remember we're assuming specific heat is the same for air as herb, which I don't think is the case) but doing 50 of the needed 180 degree rise is kinda cheating?

Remember, in VC we are only allowed to heat air with a source below 210C or we'd have combustion with heat soaks? 380C is just for the exercise.

IMO it's a conduction vape, as are most. Not that it doesn't deliver excellent vapor.......

As Shakespeare famously said 'a rose by any other name would smell as sweet'.

OF

Edit: Another Thermodynamics/Physics detail to keep in mind with all this is 'molar heat of vaporization' AKA 'latent heat'.

It takes a huge amount of energy to change 100C water into 101C steam. Right? That is it's easy and fast to boil a pan of water, but the same 'fire' takes a while to boil it away. We need constant heat input (in calories, not degrees) to support actual vapor production. This heat flow also 'makes up' for conduction and convection heat losses to the environment. Experience with 'vape pens' shows this well I think. Cut the power and vapor stops almost instantly.

Just getting heat into the load won't feed the bulldog, we have to keep supplying it if we want a hit.

BTW, this effect, latent heat, is why steam burns are so dangerous, the steam condensing on your skin instantly heats it a LOT. You can touch (very briefly) very hot things, things that would easily burn you if you lingered. The heat transfer rate is just too slow, but steam with it's phase change heat not so.

Fun stuff.

OF