Abso-freakin'-lutely excellent advice @Roth !!!
My Mighty thanks you for it!
With vaporizers, cleanliness is better than godliness!
Crafty/Crafty+ by Storz & Bickel
- Thread starter Roger D
- Start date
My Mighty thanks you for it!
With vaporizers, cleanliness is better than godliness!
Roth
Pining for the Mountains
Can't take credit for that one myself, someone else in this thread suggested it a way back. But thought it was good enough advice to bring up again!
Frandemarco
Active Member
I have the air and love it but was wondering how the Mighty compares to it. Cant wait to your follow up
Me TOO!
wilf789
Non-combustion-convert
Hey guys - asked a similar question on the Pax 2 thread so apologies for anyone who's read both - I'm trying to narrow down deciding between buying the Crafty and the Pax 2... It will be the only vape I own (at least for now) although I've had a MFLB, SSV and Pax 1 in the past.
If you could only have one vape to use which would you choose out of those two? For me, it would be mostly used at home, but also out and about sometimes. Fairly regular user (once daily at least).
The thing is I'm very keen on taste and efficiency (which I've read the Crafty is better for) but also on reliability and battery (which it seems the Pax 2 is much better for). Every time I think I've decided which to get, I change my mind again!
Really need to buy either one soon though as I've been vape-less for a year now and am really tired of combusting... Any help would be much appreciated!
If you could only have one vape to use which would you choose out of those two? For me, it would be mostly used at home, but also out and about sometimes. Fairly regular user (once daily at least).
The thing is I'm very keen on taste and efficiency (which I've read the Crafty is better for) but also on reliability and battery (which it seems the Pax 2 is much better for). Every time I think I've decided which to get, I change my mind again!
Really need to buy either one soon though as I've been vape-less for a year now and am really tired of combusting... Any help would be much appreciated!
justcametomind
Well-Known Member
Crafty hits like a home unit, no comparison with the Pax 2 imho. Speaking of which, for the same price range I'd be more tempted by Vapir Prima or Haze.
Frandemarco
Active Member
If you dont mind the iffy reliabilty then crafty>pax2
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skeletor
Active Member
You know, this thread is really starting to bum me out with respect to how some people discuss the reliability issue
@Roth, In the one post, you're saying "reliability issues are fair to bring up." In another, you're happy to once again repeat the myth that a $300+ product fails repeatedly because of abuse (and also cite other forum members to show your position has support), saying:
Those of us talking about this issue are not insane people who buy $300 products to treat them like garbage and break them. Those of us who spent a lot of money have *every right* as consumers to get frustrated at Storz & Bickel. This does not make us "out to trash them." I absolutely will warn *anyone* off of buying a Crafty until I have one that actually works reliably, as advertised, for at least 6 months. I will not tell anyone to enter into this gamble, and then suggest that they pay even MORE money to get off this merry-go-round of warranty nonsense so they can get the Mighty, because it's apparently the device they "should have bought," according to Monday Morning Quarterbacks of FC.
I have had three Craftys in 6 months. Not a one has made it beyond 45 hours of use (yet -- the third is on hour 5). When it works? It's phenomenal. But can I rely on it? Nope. I have to spend more money on more vapes, so I can rely on them when it fails. If someone needs to look at reliability issues from people who actually own the device, just look at the rest of the thread. Maybe do a content analysis of all the thread posts. Plug it into a statistical model if you like. Your socks will likely be knocked way far off.
I'm pretty sure everyone would come back with conclusions that:
1. One of the most common topics on the forum is failure/reliability. This is a no-brainer, regardless of what a new user says.
2. If we need harder evidence and better testimony than frandemarco's heresay that the Crafty has reliability issues? Feel free to dig into a ton of my posts in this thread, including discussions of declining heat-up times, intermittent functionality loss, etc. I've had 3 Craftys since *June.* We haven't made it through 6 months of device ownership, and there are a number of other people like me with similar experiences. I've also documented poor customer services experiences with S & B that have thankfully gotten better, but have been utterly ridiculous at times.
3. While SOME users say they had back to back sessions, MANY (including me) did not use the device in the capacity that @Roth and lots of "I'm a Crafty OG user with a 2.04 firmware, and this problem just does not exist" posters suggest (though its notable that over the 250+ pages of the forum, these characters have stopped existing as much....because the device fails!
) But seriously This "oh, its because you used it wrong" stuff is akin to telling iPhone users "Oh, you have no reception because you're holding it wrong." Let's please come off this. No one was satisfied with the answer then that a $600 consumer device needed to be held in a special way to be used as advertised... so why is it that claims in this thread about reliability routinely get dismissed as user error or product abuse? Is it because our community thinks that vaping reliably means making a $1000 investment in multiple devices? Sig lines full of vapes are real interesting - but I want to spend money on something that works reliably, rather than 12 devices to brag about.I dunno. Maybe I am just venting today, because this forum is amazingly useful, and full of great tips and help. When I think of how patently screwed up most interaction of forums and the Internet is today, it's disappointing. FC is like the one forum I participate in at this point where the interactions are actually meaningful and respectful... so I don't get why some folks in this thread seem happy to just *negate* the perspective of those who have repeatedly illustrated problems with reliability, despite all the obvious evidence to the contrary.
I dunno, maybe those of us who keep making these posts aren't looking out for the well-being of the community and are just out to "trash Storz & Bickel," and maybe some of you are actually people sitting in Germany or Oakland at a Storz & Bickel computer, dismissing our claims. Or maybe I should just go back to vaping in silence, and not care if some nice folks I've met here get burned on their purchase.
(RANT OFF)
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That's an awful lot of typing for somebody that is neither opinionated nor biased!You know, this thread is really starting to bum me out with respect to how some people discuss the reliability issue
@Roth, In the one post, you're saying "reliability issues are fair to bring up." In another, you're happy to once again repeat the myth that a $300+ product fails repeatedly because of abuse (and also cite other forum members to show your position has support), saying:
Those of us talking about this issue are not insane people who buy $300 products to treat them like garbage and break them. Those of us who spent a lot of money have *every right* as consumers to get frustrated at Storz & Bickel. This does not make us "out to trash them." I absolutely will warn *anyone* off of buying a Crafty until I have one that actually works reliably, as advertised, for at least 6 months. I will not tell anyone to enter into this gamble, and then suggest that they pay even MORE money to get off this merry-go-round of warranty nonsense so they can get the Mighty, because it's apparently the device they "should have bought," according to Monday Morning Quarterbacks of FC.
I have had three Craftys in 6 months. Not a one has made it beyond 45 hours of use (yet -- the third is on hour 5). When it works? It's phenomenal. But can I rely on it? Nope. I have to spend more money on more vapes, so I can rely on them when it fails. If someone needs to look at reliability issues from people who actually own the device, just look at the rest of the thread. Maybe do a content analysis of all the thread posts. Plug it into a statistical model if you like. Your socks will likely be knocked way far off.
I'm pretty sure everyone would come back with conclusions that:
1. One of the most common topics on the forum is failure/reliability. This is a no-brainer, regardless of what a new user says.
2. If we need harder evidence and better testimony than frandemarco's heresay that the Crafty has reliability issues? Feel free to dig into a ton of my posts in this thread, including discussions of declining heat-up times, intermittent functionality loss, etc. I've had 3 Craftys since *June.* We haven't made it through 6 months of device ownership, and there are a number of other people like me with similar experiences. I've also documented poor customer services experiences with S & B that have thankfully gotten better, but have been utterly ridiculous at times.
3. While SOME users say they had back to back sessions, MANY (including me) did not use the device in the capacity that @Roth and lots of "I'm a Crafty OG user with a 2.04 firmware, and this problem just does not exist" posters suggest (though its notable that over the 250+ pages of the forum, these characters have stopped existing as much....because the device fails!
I dunno. Maybe I am just venting today, because this forum is amazingly useful, and full of great tips and help. When I think of how patently screwed up most interaction of forums and the Internet is today, it's disappointing. FC is like the one forum I participate in at this point where the interactions are actually meaningful and respectful... so I don't get why some folks in this thread seem happy to just *negate* the perspective of those who have repeatedly illustrated problems with reliability, despite all the obvious evidence to the contrary.
I dunno, maybe those of us who keep making these posts aren't looking out for the well-being of the community and are just out to "trash Storz & Bickel," and maybe some of you are actually people sitting in Germany or Oakland at a Storz & Bickel computer, dismissing our claims. Or maybe I should just go back to vaping in silence, and not care if some nice folks I've met here get burned on their purchase.
(RANT OFF)
headdoctor
Well-Known Member
I don't have much skin in this game since I don't own a Crafty, though I'm leaning toward getting one. I should also say that I haven't read every post in this thread, and so my response may admittedly be off base. But I am fascinated by how we structure argument, and I'd like to respond here.
First, most of what I'm seeing in this thread is thoughtful and community-oriented. Disagreement seems fine to me, and I can't see that this thread is at all like some of the mean-spirited nonsense I see in other forums. Skeletor, your post is well written and sincere, and I for one wouldn't want you to go back to vaping in silence.
But I do think you're mischaracterizing today's exchange. I asked a simple question: does heavy use contribute to problems with this unit? grokit responded by saying that back to back use may contribute to overheating, and that "solder points inside the unit may be the weakness." He did not say that people were misusing their Craftys, and in fact identified what may be seen as a design flaw. Roth then agreed that, in his opinion, back to back bowls might be causing overheating. Again, he did not even imply that owners were mistreating their Craftys. I think he was saying that, as a light user, I would not run as high a risk with overheating, battery failure, etc. Roth criticized *one poster* as being biased against S&B. But, at least in today's exchange, he hardly criticized those owners who are frustrated with their units and with the company.
I have read much but not all of this thread and haven't found any pattern of trying to silence those understandably disappointed Crafty owners who, like you, have gone through multiple units. Perhaps I'm missing it, which is very possible. (And I should say that grokit and Roth hardly need me to defend their posts--they are both senior to me out here.) But, again, I'm fascinated in the logic of argument, and today's exchange seemed civil and, to me, helpful. And, to repeat, I sincerely hope that you don't silence yourself.
Frank Reynolds
Well-Known Member
People who own the unit and have experience with it would still fall under the category of anecdotal. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, you just said you didn't want any.
I would take someone saying their friend's unit died after light usage just as seriously as if it was the poster's unit who died. It isn't like we know anyone personally and know how they treat their device on a daily basis or anything here.
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UnshavenFish
Well-Known Member
I fall into the 'I've had my crafty since March and it still works' camp.
Are there reliability issues? I think yes has to be the answer here.
Is the crafty the only vape I can say this about? Not by a long way, yes I'm looking at you grasshopper, firefly, ESV and dare I say it the 'upgrade' mighty (some users are on mighty number 3/4) just to name a few, to me it seems lots of vapes that are IMO pushing performance of what's possible with tech used have some issues, or atleast the possibility of it.
I have seen lots of talk about battery failure but personally I think it's more of a hardware issue, as I don't think I've seen any reports of "my crafty is charging faster than normal" which to me would suggest a dying cell, also I think s&b would just change the cell rather than send a whole new unit if it was just a battery problem, I don't work for s&b so could be way off here but cost alone would make me think this
Two of the most fun cars I've owned are a TVR Tuscan and a Lotus Elise, both spent more time in the garage than on the road but I loved them both and would get another without even thinking about it based on the times when everything worked as intended, I kinda see the crafty the same way (even though I have had no problems yet...) I know there is a chance I could run into problems but for me the way it performs is worth the risk (this is something each person has to judge for themselves)
There are lots of tips on how to try and avoid any issues with a crafty, and personally I think some have merit but there is always the risk that something will fail regardless of how good it is treated, some people have got over 200/300 hours without problem and some less than 20, maybe some damage is done while shipping, maybe some are destined to fail because of production issues, who knows.
Best anyone can do is read as much anecdotal evidence possible and try and make an informed decision.
I paid £200 for my crafty and I have a two year warranty, so it will cost me £100 per year to make sure I have a working unit, so around 28p per day (It would cost me more in petrol just to start my car everyday, I wouldn't even have to drive a mile to spend more) now this is just how I personally see things, it's a risk vs reward vs cost thing really.
Are there reliability issues? I think yes has to be the answer here.
Is the crafty the only vape I can say this about? Not by a long way, yes I'm looking at you grasshopper, firefly, ESV and dare I say it the 'upgrade' mighty (some users are on mighty number 3/4) just to name a few, to me it seems lots of vapes that are IMO pushing performance of what's possible with tech used have some issues, or atleast the possibility of it.
I have seen lots of talk about battery failure but personally I think it's more of a hardware issue, as I don't think I've seen any reports of "my crafty is charging faster than normal" which to me would suggest a dying cell, also I think s&b would just change the cell rather than send a whole new unit if it was just a battery problem, I don't work for s&b so could be way off here but cost alone would make me think this
Two of the most fun cars I've owned are a TVR Tuscan and a Lotus Elise, both spent more time in the garage than on the road but I loved them both and would get another without even thinking about it based on the times when everything worked as intended, I kinda see the crafty the same way (even though I have had no problems yet...) I know there is a chance I could run into problems but for me the way it performs is worth the risk (this is something each person has to judge for themselves)
There are lots of tips on how to try and avoid any issues with a crafty, and personally I think some have merit but there is always the risk that something will fail regardless of how good it is treated, some people have got over 200/300 hours without problem and some less than 20, maybe some damage is done while shipping, maybe some are destined to fail because of production issues, who knows.
Best anyone can do is read as much anecdotal evidence possible and try and make an informed decision.
I paid £200 for my crafty and I have a two year warranty, so it will cost me £100 per year to make sure I have a working unit, so around 28p per day (It would cost me more in petrol just to start my car everyday, I wouldn't even have to drive a mile to spend more) now this is just how I personally see things, it's a risk vs reward vs cost thing really.
Frandemarco
Active Member
All member must be treated with respect, that includes females and those who act like them. Warning point issued.
You know, this thread is really starting to bum me out with respect to how some people discuss the reliability issue
@Roth, In the one post, you're saying "reliability issues are fair to bring up." In another, you're happy to once again repeat the myth that a $300+ product fails repeatedly because of abuse (and also cite other forum members to show your position has support), saying:
Those of us talking about this issue are not insane people who buy $300 products to treat them like garbage and break them. Those of us who spent a lot of money have *every right* as consumers to get frustrated at Storz & Bickel. This does not make us "out to trash them." I absolutely will warn *anyone* off of buying a Crafty until I have one that actually works reliably, as advertised, for at least 6 months. I will not tell anyone to enter into this gamble, and then suggest that they pay even MORE money to get off this merry-go-round of warranty nonsense so they can get the Mighty, because it's apparently the device they "should have bought," according to Monday Morning Quarterbacks of FC.
I have had three Craftys in 6 months. Not a one has made it beyond 45 hours of use (yet -- the third is on hour 5). When it works? It's phenomenal. But can I rely on it? Nope. I have to spend more money on more vapes, so I can rely on them when it fails. If someone needs to look at reliability issues from people who actually own the device, just look at the rest of the thread. Maybe do a content analysis of all the thread posts. Plug it into a statistical model if you like. Your socks will likely be knocked way far off.
I'm pretty sure everyone would come back with conclusions that:
1. One of the most common topics on the forum is failure/reliability. This is a no-brainer, regardless of what a new user says.
2. If we need harder evidence and better testimony than frandemarco's heresay that the Crafty has reliability issues? Feel free to dig into a ton of my posts in this thread, including discussions of declining heat-up times, intermittent functionality loss, etc. I've had 3 Craftys since *June.* We haven't made it through 6 months of device ownership, and there are a number of other people like me with similar experiences. I've also documented poor customer services experiences with S & B that have thankfully gotten better, but have been utterly ridiculous at times.
3. While SOME users say they had back to back sessions, MANY (including me) did not use the device in the capacity that @Roth and lots of "I'm a Crafty OG user with a 2.04 firmware, and this problem just does not exist" posters suggest (though its notable that over the 250+ pages of the forum, these characters have stopped existing as much....because the device fails!
I dunno. Maybe I am just venting today, because this forum is amazingly useful, and full of great tips and help. When I think of how patently screwed up most interaction of forums and the Internet is today, it's disappointing. FC is like the one forum I participate in at this point where the interactions are actually meaningful and respectful... so I don't get why some folks in this thread seem happy to just *negate* the perspective of those who have repeatedly illustrated problems with reliability, despite all the obvious evidence to the contrary.
I dunno, maybe those of us who keep making these posts aren't looking out for the well-being of the community and are just out to "trash Storz & Bickel," and maybe some of you are actually people sitting in Germany or Oakland at a Storz & Bickel computer, dismissing our claims. Or maybe I should just go back to vaping in silence, and not care if some nice folks I've met here get burned on their purchase.
(RANT OFF)
You my friend deserve a reward. Samething ive been saying the whole time. To many users " acting like females" get uptight because of there precious crafty is not reliable period.I was starting to think these people was getting paid by them. Lol
Mr. Me2
Well-Known Member
I don't think you'll regret starting with the pax 2, but I'm confident you'll end up with VAS and start building your vape collection. Plus it's fun switching up and rotating vapes.
And between these 2, I think most will agree the Crafty puts out better flavor.
Krizzle
Hi Very high
@Frandemarco
eh? I wish vape companies did pay me for both using and promoting the products that would be awesome
but they dont and I just tell it how it is when it comes to vapes. Good or bad. So is everyone else here pretty much.
I wouldn't say men are turning female necessarily because of a broken Crafty then venting some frustration on the internet? Unless your seeing something here i don't
Anyway...I still think the Crafty is awesome and I have been using and abusing this thing since I got my replacement. Flavour it bests any and all vapes I have owned and tried, ease of use and cleaning also. Battery -
30-40mins max on full charge it seems but this thing hits like a mule and that's why.
eh? I wish vape companies did pay me for both using and promoting the products that would be awesome
but they dont and I just tell it how it is when it comes to vapes. Good or bad. So is everyone else here pretty much.I wouldn't say men are turning female necessarily because of a broken Crafty then venting some frustration on the internet? Unless your seeing something here i don't
Anyway...I still think the Crafty is awesome and I have been using and abusing this thing since I got my replacement. Flavour it bests any and all vapes I have owned and tried, ease of use and cleaning also. Battery -
30-40mins max on full charge it seems but this thing hits like a mule and that's why.
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skeletor
Active Member
Hey, thanks for the compliment, but could you not talk smack on women by suggesting that because people are uptight they are "acting like females?"
Females are fantastic, sir. I hope I act like one often.
Thank you for this thoughtful post.
Maybe I was just frustrated yesterday and should've held off before posting, because I do think your interpretation of yesterday's exchanges is on point. And by no means do I want to identify and take one person to task--so my apologies to @Roth for using his comments as the example.
That being said, I'd been lurking here for many months while deciding what vape to buy, and when I began to have questions and delurked, I found the forum really helpful. However, even in my first few weeks of posting (when my Crafty started to act wonky) and I engaged others about it, I found some responders (perhaps wanting to justify their recent purchase and resolve the dissonance of wide reports of failure) would suggest that people were just trying to game Storz & Bickel for replacements. In other instances, people were accused of just trying to get firmware upgrades, even if they didn't need them. It became frustrating when trying to interact with other people with legitimate failures under normal use. Now, I'm seeing this conversation shift toward "back to back sessions" or "using it every day," as if those of us who experience failure over and over are using our device in some way inconsistent with the user manual, marketing materials, etc. It becomes frustrating. And maybe I just let some of that off. If I offended anyone, I apologize.
But this did get me thinking. What if FC had sub-threads specifically for troubleshooting/customer service issues? That way, those of us who are trying to share info and strategize about making sure we attain proper warranty support etc. can do so, without making a muckfest of the threads? I can appreciate that listening to some of us gripe perpetually might be frustrating, and I'm willing to do it somewhere better if there's a place for it.
Thanks for kicking ass, in general, all. I really value your insights.
Stinky
Well-Known Member
Best thing I have read all day.
biohacker
H.R.E.A.M
Awesome idea, should be brought to the mods attention.
Just returned back to this thread after seeing the Crafty in the classifieds....many of you remember my posts, but I owned a Crafty for about 30 hours and then sold it, and owned 2 Mighty's and sold them recently as well, neither of the 3 vapes had any fatal problems, just minor issues that weren't deal breakers. I moved on to the Solo and Air, returned the Air (Solo performed much better with my gong needs), and read the last couple of pages so figured I could contribute since i've owned and experienced all involved vapes.
So IMHO only, there is no way that the Crafty (or Mighty) "blow away" the Solo. I don't even want to bother comparing...since they are just too different altogether. The Solo is the best value for the dollar, hands down. And that goes for any vape IMO.
I love the Solo, it's a keeper, I use it like a daily driver desktop with gong, and it impresses me more than any of the over dozen high priced vapes i've owned.
I didn't like the Air, not enough juice, and kinda similar to the Crafty and the Solo being like a Mighty. It's okay, but just doesn't compare to the Crafty for portability.
IMO there is no better portable vape than the Crafty, and that's why I miss it. The Air just didn't cut it, but I will use a Crafty as intended, not as a regular daily driver.... that battery can only take so much.
The Mighty is king in my books. I miss it dearly and will have one yet again soon, but it's just not that ultra portable, so IMO I think i'll be happiest with a Solo, Mighty, and Crafty, or even better X2 for all three!
I buy and sell vapes as a hobby, many vapes I sell and I don't look back on, but some I keep thinking about and then have to buy again....the Solo, Crafty, and Mighty all fit that bill.....must haves! Only you can decide if you want to play the warranty roulette wheel! Just don't get them near water!
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While I agree with your point, please do not tell other members how to post. If a post is breaking the rules, report it and do not respond. If you feel a response is absolutely necessary, use a PM; otherwizse, ignore it and move. Comments like this often lead to flames. Thanks for your cooperation.
Udo
New Member
1st time poster here. My first Crafty died with the "faulty" message on my app screen about 2 months after buying it.
Sent it back and they kindly send me a new one sealed in the box with additional mouthpieces.
1 month later the replacement has now died with the same message.
Seems the batteries in these die all too easily...due to excessive heat I suspect.
Might be time to sell the replacement and go for the Prima instead.
Sent it back and they kindly send me a new one sealed in the box with additional mouthpieces.
1 month later the replacement has now died with the same message.
Seems the batteries in these die all too easily...due to excessive heat I suspect.
Might be time to sell the replacement and go for the Prima instead.
headdoctor
Well-Known Member
I genuinely appreciate the moderators' insistence on minimizing "flames" and unnecessary vitriol, but it seems odd that it's okay to post something outrageously sexist and offensive, as Frandemarco did, but it's not okay to respond to such offensive language. Was Frandemarco's insulting comment acceptable? Apparently it was. If so, then it seems entirely appropriate to me that he should be called on it, and not just in a pm.
(I assume that I will now be censored.)
@headdoctor, you've been around long enough to know how the forum is moderated. Therefore you should know that public commentary about thread moderation is not allowed.
If you feel a post breaks the rules, report it. Confronting other members publicly can lead to flame wars and detract from the value of the thread. Talking about moderator decisions derails the thread and isn't tolerated either. Our rules are there for a reason and all members agreed to abide these rules when they registered.
You assume incorrectly. But don't push your luck.
biohacker
H.R.E.A.M
Does anyone think that S&B will nail it on the Crafty soon and decrease their more than likely double digit defect rate? At some point, this model has to become cost prohibitive for profit and it seems like Crafty deaths outnumber Mighty deaths by quite a long shot (my observations).
I so want a Crafty, but even at 40ish hours they same to have 3min warmup times that were less than 90 seconds when new. I know they can be sent in, but now it seems like S&B are pushing back hard with battery claims, and for the cost of these products, holy shit.
If Crafty was much more reliable, I don't think anything could compare for portability.
I so want a Crafty, but even at 40ish hours they same to have 3min warmup times that were less than 90 seconds when new. I know they can be sent in, but now it seems like S&B are pushing back hard with battery claims, and for the cost of these products, holy shit.
If Crafty was much more reliable, I don't think anything could compare for portability.
vapviking
Old & In the Way
S&B had better get the act together and make some sweeping improvement to the Crafty program, as in, stop selling them and move on to Crafty II. Of course, Mighty II as well, while they're at it. I fully believe these will happen, though they may be a year or more away.