Crafty/Crafty+ by Storz & Bickel
- Thread starter Roger D
- Start date
Mr Mellish
Well-Known Member
Spending a little quality time in Seattle and visited my first recreational store (never been to an MMJ store). What an incredible thing to see all these options in a relaxed atmosphere! Prices are a bit high but my limited experience says it's good stuff.
First night, I was impatient and threw a small nugget in. To my surprise, it just didn't hit me too hard. Next session, I filled it with ground flower and it hit me harder than anything had. It's called Alice in Wonderland and it has a kick. It hits harder than the Platinum Girl Scout Cookie Shatter! Looking forward to what tonight brings.
First night, I was impatient and threw a small nugget in. To my surprise, it just didn't hit me too hard. Next session, I filled it with ground flower and it hit me harder than anything had. It's called Alice in Wonderland and it has a kick. It hits harder than the Platinum Girl Scout Cookie Shatter! Looking forward to what tonight brings.
skeletor
Active Member
Hey All -- so a quick update on the leaky cooling units.
Like Marky, I too received an e-mail from Storz & Bickel saying they would replace my cooling unit. Sounds to me like if you've got that hole in the Cooling Unit, you're not using a part that was machined as designed.
Also, with regards to the firmware debate, it's worth saying it: S&B put Bluetooth and a USB port in the device. Why they did not also provide the capability for a user to flash a firmware upgrade is baffling to me, and undoubtedly creates the customer service frustration everyone is debating about. It also means a sea of packages to and fro the Storz & Bickel offices to diagnose and treat Crafty, app, and phone bluetooth issues...
I really dig my Crafty, despite its odd quirks from time to time (i.e. the new recent habit of overheating on back to back sessions and shutting itself off...) - but I really hope S&B figure out from this first foray into portables that they could have likely saved themselves and their early adopters a lot of headaches by giving us flashable firmware either over the air, or via USB. I cannot think of another consumer electronics device (other than if you went out and tried to buy a brand new VCR) you can buy today that requires you to send it in for a firmware upgrade. And while I get some folks are making the "it's like a new edition of the same model car you bought" argument, I liken this more to being akin to when you buy a cell phone, and over time that the operating system's compatibility with devices newer than it requires a firmware upgrade (and to be frank -- that's quite possibly what the 2.08 upgrade contains). We wouldn't expect to have to buy a new phone to get the updated operating system, unless the phone had reached end of support life after several years.
S&B chose to go this route. It's their bed and they get to lay in it. No customer would be trying to send in a device for complete replacement on the basis of firmware if S&B had thought ahead, looked at the consumer electronics market, and figured out how to release firmware digitally over the Internet. I have a hard time blaming the customer for the manufacturer's business decision in this instance.
Like Marky, I too received an e-mail from Storz & Bickel saying they would replace my cooling unit. Sounds to me like if you've got that hole in the Cooling Unit, you're not using a part that was machined as designed.
Also, with regards to the firmware debate, it's worth saying it: S&B put Bluetooth and a USB port in the device. Why they did not also provide the capability for a user to flash a firmware upgrade is baffling to me, and undoubtedly creates the customer service frustration everyone is debating about. It also means a sea of packages to and fro the Storz & Bickel offices to diagnose and treat Crafty, app, and phone bluetooth issues...
I really dig my Crafty, despite its odd quirks from time to time (i.e. the new recent habit of overheating on back to back sessions and shutting itself off...) - but I really hope S&B figure out from this first foray into portables that they could have likely saved themselves and their early adopters a lot of headaches by giving us flashable firmware either over the air, or via USB. I cannot think of another consumer electronics device (other than if you went out and tried to buy a brand new VCR) you can buy today that requires you to send it in for a firmware upgrade. And while I get some folks are making the "it's like a new edition of the same model car you bought" argument, I liken this more to being akin to when you buy a cell phone, and over time that the operating system's compatibility with devices newer than it requires a firmware upgrade (and to be frank -- that's quite possibly what the 2.08 upgrade contains). We wouldn't expect to have to buy a new phone to get the updated operating system, unless the phone had reached end of support life after several years.
S&B chose to go this route. It's their bed and they get to lay in it. No customer would be trying to send in a device for complete replacement on the basis of firmware if S&B had thought ahead, looked at the consumer electronics market, and figured out how to release firmware digitally over the Internet. I have a hard time blaming the customer for the manufacturer's business decision in this instance.
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I can think of perfectly good reasons why they chose not to put their firmware (IP) out there for anyone to steal. There are already fake Mightys coming out of China ffs. They (S&B) are probably just playing their cards as close to the vest as they can to thwart those who would do them harm. They aren't dumb and I'm pretty sure they thought out there firmware upgrade process very well, and aren't just trying to make users lives difficult. Just my
Marky
Active Member
Weee.. Crafty marked as 'out for delivery' so should be waiting when I get home. Curious if I'll have 2.08 or not or whether the new CU will be a leaky muzzmod candidate.
Edit: empty mailbox, guess I beat the postman today.
Where do you live? SB informed me that 2.08 is NOT for American units. The latest firmware for US units is 2.07. I'm guessing international units will come in 2.08.
I'm glad they made that clear this time instead of downplaying the firmware altogether.
-Mark
skeletor
Active Member
I can think of perfectly good reasons why they chose not to put their firmware (IP) out there for anyone to steal. There are already fake Mightys coming out of China ffs. They (S&B) are probably just playing their cards as close to the vest as they can to thwart those who would do them harm. They aren't dumb and I'm pretty sure they thought out there firmware upgrade process very well, and aren't just trying to make users lives difficult. Just my
I dunno. I hear what you're saying, and I never implied that Storz and Bickel are "dumb." My point was they made their decision - so if that means they have to deal with more customers shipping stuff, so be it. As much as I understand your point, it's also not at all unique to S&B's situation. It's not as if every other consumer electronics manufacturer hasn't figured this out. You can encrypt your firmware, you can require it be signed, etc. etc. It is not as if firmware = total blueprints for piracy either. If it were, we'd be flush in black market iPods, iPads, televisions, blu-ray players, etc. that are based on the original manufacturers' microcode and utilize the same / incredibly similar hardware, rather than simple "knock off" products that ape the look and feel of the real thing. As a similar example, wireless router manufacturers like Netgear, Linksys, etc. have provided downloadable firmware upgrades for routers for over a decade (and probably longer) as standard practice. This has not led to widespread direct piracy of Linksys or Netgear's designs based upon their proprietary code.
This much seems simple: There are much, much better ways to handle a software update than a 10 day shipping turnaround. It doesn't kill the product for me or make me regret my purchase, but does remind me that prior to their experiments in portable vapes, S&B is a company that has been selling iterations of the same product they invented in the 90's (Volcano) with little technological development until recently, that their experience with any piece of technology requiring a bluetooth controller or digital microcode is limited, and that while the product works, there's still room for improvement in providing support on the software and firmware ends of the business.
I'm glad you got this clarification, Mark. The lack of clarity on this and the vagueness/selective answering of some S&B reps is troubling to me when all you want to know is what the current firmware is, and why it wasn't burned to your unit's ROM. Imagine if your first e-mail been answered with "Yes, there is a 2.08, but for the EU market and related electrical mains. You have the most current firmware for US release." You would have had no reason to reapproach S & B, to make posts about your confusion or frustration, etc.
Similarly, I have had an ongoing interaction with a rep regarding the leaking cooling units wherein regardless of what I write in my e-mails, I get a response back asking for my address to send me a new cooling unit. I'm somewhat concerned because I'm having heater overheat issues and was using a cooling unit with a hole in it since day one, 2 and a half months ago. I imagine that heater was working harder than intended, given that the heat was going out the hole with the vapor - but no one wants to even acknowledge a simple question like "was there a change in the design of the cooling unit, or is this defective." Instead, I just get form responses asking for my address.
So I dunno, leave firmware aside and I bet S & B could cut down shipping and e-mail volume if reps answered questions with current data, rather than just avoid them and then reply to subsequent e-mails that challenge their replies, and that are backed by evidence (like pictures of cooling units, 2.08 firmwares, etc.)
Mod note: Posts merged
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Marky
Active Member
I hear you 100%. They do things the hard way sometimes for no good reason. They could have easily told me this in the first email.
I got blew off too with 2 questions of my own regarding the cu (the hole and o ring) just to be told again a new one was sent out to me after they had already sent me the tracking # for it the day before. I replied asking to get answers to my questions since they were legitimate questions that many other customers have, but with no reply since. It's pretty unprofessional if you ask me but it is what it is. I feel they know something that they don't want us to know. They feel we will be happy and hush up as long as they replace whatever we complain about.
I'm not even going to bother talking to them anymore unless I'm having a problem with my units.
-Mark
justcametomind
Well-Known Member
skeletor
Active Member
Here's a series of rhetorical questions in response to your rhetorical question.
If I ask a question of customer service and get no engagement with what I asked and a form response instead, why should I feel secure that my unit will be properly addressed when my unit "will be problematic?"
If I buy something under the auspices that over the next two years I can get help from the manufacturer if something seems awry, shouldn't the manufacturer be available to answer inquiries I have over the next two years?
Shouldn't the manufacturer also be able to answer a simple inquiry about the unit's advertised performance rather than have me foot the bill at my own expense to send in a unit that is acting flaky, so they can answer the question?
Do you have a personal need to dismiss customer inquiries, or collaboration between people in this forum who are having customer support issues? Do you become personally offended when someone critiques a brand whose product you bought?
To finally answer your question -- my unit isn't working as it was 2 months ago and I want to talk to a service agent, to determine if it's damaged. By your standard, am I supposed to never contact S & B about a flaky/inconsistently performing unit, but somehow also access the warranty service?
You had a point a few posts back when you were saying that one should not unbox perfectly good hardware because of a potentially minor firmware upgrade. Now you're just being annoying by critiquing anyone who discusses a negative experience with S & B service...
People use this space for problem solving. Some of that problem solving is figuring out tubing, glass, and hardware. Some of that problem solving is diagnosing broken hardware. Some of that problem solving is figuring out how to negotiate interactions with S & B to ensure they're meeting the terms of the 2 year warranty after releasing two products that by their own admission required hardware revision. What you are doing now is not problem solving. It's problem generation.
If you don't have something on-topic to say, don't know what's happening with the individual users collaborating here, and have nothing to add but rhetorical questions that implies one shouldn't use the customer service they paid for, maybe try not adding commentary?
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Marky
Active Member
Hey @skeletor don't bother explaining yourself bro. You did a very normal thing. Your cooling unit had a hole and you asked them if thats a defect and if it's being attended to so that it's avoided in future production of units. Many people don't care about this as long as they get a new replacement. Some of us though, we want to know how reliable these units are and want some piece of mind that buying future products won't come defected. So far their cooling units are a hit or miss (in regards to receiving a "leaky" unit). You have a right 100% to contact them if your unit is not working and have questions you want answered. Don't let anyone make you feel like you did something wrong.
I see some people obviously like to stir things up. The mods should take action against these individuals and not the people trying to be civil and actually contribute to this forum!
-Mark
I see some people obviously like to stir things up. The mods should take action against these individuals and not the people trying to be civil and actually contribute to this forum!
-Mark
Thcgos
Vape Addict
I don't think the Crafty is in the same category as a router....
I know for enterprise/carrier grade, they usually have multiple memory stores to allow for upload of a new firmware whilst the current one is operating, so that things like decryption can take place, before it flashes the decrypted firmware to a secondary eeprom/location and then makes it the working primary eeprom.
We are talking about a crafty here. They are trying to minimise size. I'm sure they don't have room for multiple eeproms and a processor to decrypt etc etc. Although I'm not a S&B engineer.
I'm almost certain it is updated as machine code. With the mighty being already copied, I'm sure if they allowed user firmware updates we'd already be seeing crafty copies that could communicate to the genuine S&B crafty APP! How demeaning would that be!
Furthermore, what if people brick their devices due to low phone battery, dodgy USB cables, etc etc.
As @Stu said. I'm sure they have good reasons for it. Not to say i wouldnt like to see it.. im stuck on FW 2.04!!! I cant communicate to my new android devices... i'll send it in when i get desperate... but the thought of being without it is too unbearable right now ahhaha.
Marky
Active Member
I just got a second email from SB. It's regarding the firmware 2.08 again and this email says that 2.08 is not available in America at this time and if I want this firmware I must contact SB in Germany and have them update it to my unit. In the bottom they noted that this is not a warranty service and that my unit will work equally well with its current firmware.
Just thought some of you would like to know this.
-Mark
Just thought some of you would like to know this.
-Mark
skeletor
Active Member
You should inquire about the cost of this upgrade service, and request a changelog to help aid you in making your decision to purchase the service.
Then you should post the changelog.
You make some good points here about technical limitations, and I agree -- I am sure they had their reasons. Trust me, I am not seeking to send mine in either. Even with the two sporadic issues I'm noticing, I still don't want to give it up for any period of time I don't need to.
So again, maybe Crafty 2.0: Even Craftier will have this feature someday. Off to dream about it.
Mod note: posts merged
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Stinky
Well-Known Member
Just hit the report button.
Marky
Active Member
I'm thinking of another way to clean my cu without using iso. I've been getting bad luck with it and get stuck with iso taste for a few sessions before it goes away slowly.
I was thinking about boiling it in water. Anyone tried this?
My new replacement cu is at my local post office being delivered today btw. I will report back whether I got another leaky unit or if it's good and what o rings it has.
-Mark
I was thinking about boiling it in water. Anyone tried this?
My new replacement cu is at my local post office being delivered today btw. I will report back whether I got another leaky unit or if it's good and what o rings it has.
-Mark
UnshavenFish
Well-Known Member
I thought this could be the case, as IMO anything new will rollout from Germany first, thanks for the info
Never tried it myself let us know how you get on, also maybe even some vodka or rum could be worth a try I think I've seen it recommended for use for cleaning wood stems and has to taste better than ISO, maybe even some washing up liquid could work, personally I have tubs of ISO (cleared the shelf in my local computer shop when they had a sale) and have never had problems so will stick to that but will be interesting to hear how things work for you.
Mr. Me2
Well-Known Member
I like the use of a toothbrush. Is it one dedicated to this, or do you borrow from someone you don't like?
momofthegoons
vapor accessory addict
We have a rule on this forum:
You are a fairly new member. We moderate this forum the same way we have since it started and perhaps, once you've been around a while, you will better understand how things work around here. However, if the moderation is not to your liking and you do not like how this forum is being run, feel free to find another one.
Stinky
Well-Known Member
What percentage ISO are you using?
Marky
Active Member
I don't know neither. It's very strange to me as well but it's what I'm dealing with. I have been cleaning my vapes for 2 years and never had a iso taste before (all glass). I leave it in iso for 10 min and put it under the faucet running hot water on it for another 2 min. The worst iso taste is during the first session after a clean but I still taste it after 3 sessions. Maybe my taste buds are more sensitive than average but I def taste it 100%. I'm actually scared to dip my new cu in iso just to get it masked in that taste again. I'd rather try boiling water and risk disform/melt my unit
-Mark
I thought this could be the case, as IMO anything new will rollout from Germany first, thanks for the info
Never tried it myself let us know how you get on, also maybe even some vodka or rum could be worth a try I think I've seen it recommended for use for cleaning wood stems and has to taste better than ISO, maybe even some washing up liquid could work, personally I have tubs of ISO (cleared the shelf in my local computer shop when they had a sale) and have never had problems so will stick to that but will be interesting to hear how things work for you.
I will use my older unit to do a test run and see how long it takes for the water to damage the plastic. I will update you guys on the result so we know how long NOT to keep it in there. I'd love to use boiling water over iso any day if it's safe to do so consistently.
-Mark
I'm using 99.8%
-Mark
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Marky
Active Member
Yea well, go read a few posts back and you will find some trolling but your not doing your "job" by the forum rules that you keep boasting. Biased much???
-Mark
Chezgreendream
First the flavor, then the buZzz settles in....
You know its not just you, I get the same things when I was using 90% iso to clean my glass and stems, or anything vape related that I use to inhale vapor.
Ive tried different methods to get the iso taste and feeling to dissapear, my lungs and throat would get irritated and I would still taste the iso, even after soaking in iso and rinsing in water. I have rinsed it repeatedly in water, used scolding hot water and even diluted the iso with water, but the taste and smell still lingers.
I posted my thoughts and concerns on this forum and though I have gotten alot of useful feedback, many found it strange that even after a good rinsing with water I was still able to taste the iso.
These days I use some bristle brushes and some good old soap and water, then give it a good rinse. I then squeeze some fresh lemon juice and wash the items or parts in it to neautralize the taste and smell of any residue left over and rinse with water again. they sell long thin nylon bristles on amazon, that I use to get to hard to reach spots.
I know this might not get rid bad stuff, like bacteria and anything else, but it helps keep it clean. I havent had any issues with it. I do this at least once a week with my vape items, though Im thinking I might have to do the iso at least once a month for good measure. Hope this helps.
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max
Out to lunch
Arguing with a moderator via a post is also a rules violation. Something has to change, and it'll either be your attitude or your membership status.Yea well, go read a few posts back and you will find some trolling but your not doing your "job" by the forum rules that you keep boasting. Biased much???
-Mark
skyvaper
Well-Known Member
For those who are sensitive to iso taste you may want to try the new vape burn off method after you clean. Load some abv after you clean your unit and let it cycle for a few minutes on the highest setting maybe longer then dump and allow to cool. Take a pull and see if the taste is gone and repeat if needed.