CCA Liger banger V3.0

[herbivore21]

@herbivore21 Why does someone prefer a stick over an automatic? It could be argued that one is far superior to the other, yet you still see a world full of both. The point I am trying to make is a lot of it is in the eye of the beholder and so you will most likely see a mixed bag of reactions due to it all being up to personal preference in the end =)

I agree my friend, it is likely that the differences and preferences will be subjective between the two. The polished sapphire is likely to be somewhat more durable, but is also more expensive for this reason. However, it is also not going to be amenable to a wicking surface because of the polished finish (the wicking surface for the d-nail products is made while the sapphire is grown in the lab from cultures, any polishing afterwards would obviously damage a wicking surface). The banger design is preferred by plenty of folks over traditional domeless nail designs (I do not prefer these with quartz but I can't say about the Liger banger design with regard to my preferences yet - quartz and titanium bangers are a very different beast!).

Basically, we can compare individual aspects as well as the subjective experience of the whole. Obviously, the latter is something that any of us can do if we have used the product. What I was saying above is: let's not presume to know whether individual design features are responsible or not in the absence of any clear evidence to support the claim - it seems like you are already thinking along these lines though and sticking to describing things from a subjective user experience perspective though so you may already understand my point

 

[mrbonsai420]

I gotta say guys, you have written off the d-nail wicking surface on the sapphire halo altogether and somehow assumed that the more complex, engineered wik feature is less useful for our needs than polished vitreous sapphire with no explanation. On the face of it, this comparison of the surface of the sapphire seems doubtful; a thinner film of oil being spread about in the capillary channels contacting more available hot surface area of the nail = more efficient vaporization than a polished surface without capillaries - the wik surface has additional hot surface area because the sides of the capillary channels are additionally present as well as the floor. Now let's take a moment to clarify that I am not saying that this means the Liger or Halo are worse or better than one another. There are so many differences in the designs (crucially these differences relate to the way the nail is heated!) aside from this one!

With my technical background, I hate to see a purpose made manufacturing technique and functional design (the sapphire wik surface) that draws on bleeding edge research and even more bleeding edge manufacturing dismissed out of hand in favor of an existing manufacturing technique from another application (polished vitreous sapphire is already used in aerospace applications).

Obviously, I will be owning both products in the not too distant future and will be able to contribute my thoughts on comparing them more broadly so will reserve judgement overall on any overall comparison of sapphire to sapphire until then.

What I'm asking is this: Can you really propose to know precisely what contribution the difference in wicking dish surface on the Halo is making vs the polished surface on the liger sapphire insert (after all, there are many different design features and the Liger and D-nail halos both use very different methods of heating the nail and distributing heat across it, as well as very different shapes and functions in other aspects - how do you presume to have teased these apart?)? This is a very dubious claim, without carrying out a systematic comparative scientific study! We are talking about a material (sapphire) that is typically only used in limited high tech applications here (and more to the point, the wik surface design being compared does not exist to my knowledge in any other sapphire application) - this is not conventional nor widely understood knowledge!

You guys obviously appreciate now I am buying a liger with Sapphire and will own both sapphire nails soon. I am no shill. I am paying large amounts of money to try both and obviously I haven't made up mAnd y mind which one is better to use. I am just saying that as a person from a scientific/engineering/technical background, it is important to reserve such specific and technical claims for those who can give us systematic studies to conclusively show that these claims regarding the new technology are accurate.

Please, any name calling or accusations of 'shill' (sadly this has happened too many times in this particular thread) will lead to the offenders being immediately reported and permanently ignored - I do not direct this at my friends Chase and MrBonsai who are perfect gentlemen and don't behave like this IME!

I am not saying anything negative about the Liger sapphire or even saying that one sapphire nail is better than the other yet, just saying that some specific claims here go beyond what can be conclusively demonstrated. Obviously I'll get the chance to look at each products function more closely myself soon enough and give my thoughts then. Before that, aside from the technical points I make above, I won't enter into comparison of the two products more broadly.

I have only hit the SiC halo so I can't compare the 2. In fact I really want to hit the 20mm sapphire final production version! I had an early prototype 20mm sapphire and I have a final version 30mm but I really like the 20mm form factor the best by far.
Looking forward to you and others getting the V3 and comparing the 2.

 

[ccchase420]

+1 on new 20mm sapphire (i don't have it yet, not even sure it's being made, i was told the sapphire is flat coil only for now but this was a while back), flat coil is nice for videos but the function of the 20mm wins out in my opinion, everything feels so much more contained and i get better rips off of it.

 

[herbivore21]

+1 on new 20mm sapphire (i don't have it yet, not even sure it's being made, i was told the sapphire is flat coil only for now but this was a while back), flat coil is nice for videos but the function of the 20mm wins out in my opinion, everything feels so much more contained and i get better rips off of it.

Oh damn, does this mean I should be waiting and seeing if a new 20mm sapphire insert will be coming before I pull the trigger? So many decisions!

Actually I wanted to find out from you guys if you like the dabber tips that sit inside the carb cap and which of these tips you find works best? Also do you find that these tips work better if you turn them or is this not a factor?

How do we find the internal dabber tips vs the traditional dabber tips? Which of the normal style dabber tips that sit outside of the carb cap do you guys prefer if so?

Also can I once again confirm that d-nail and HE dabber tips will fit into the liger carb?

Also please do tell me about the differences between the storm cell cap and the hurricane cap (any preferences you might have too )?

Thanks to any who will answer my 20 questions Cheers to all

Edit: Also can someone take a photo of the contoured dabber handle unscrewed from the cap? I want to see the thread section to see if the d-nail forked dabber tip will be able to hold the adjustable airflow washer in place, since it has a different thread section that allows a little space that may accomodate a washer

 

[ccchase420]

great functionality on the business end for dropping in things like crumble, but if you're not using one of the new more slender tips (needle/flat tip) with shatter oil will run up the dabber because it is the coolest thing in the chamber. i definitely prefer to dab first, carb second, be it with the storm cell tip or another dabber. regarding the new tips - inside or outside - needle tip ftw. only other one i find myself using is the shovel style one for crumbles and sift. this is largely personal preference and does not mean the other dab tips have no function.

regarding the dnail/HE caps, there is a very narrow space between the outer body and the air intake:

so, if it's a cap that needs to sit over the top of the barrel it's going to be lopsided sitting on the air intake. i had a glass carb cap from idabber that i really liked and can't use it because of this. the only thing you'll be able to carb it with is something flat or something dome shaped that fits inside (of course the two different v3 caps are exactly that, with adjustable airflow)

which leads me to your question on the hurricane cap, there are lots of pics of it in the previous liger thread. it's a larger, more maneuverable cap that doesn't lock onto the top of the liger like a stove lid. it's a dense piece of ti that's shaped a bit like an upside-down UFO..you could imagine how that shape would carb this device efficiently (the flat coil in particular)

oh and lastly on your forked dabber tip, i'm not sure the threading matches, it looks like those threads are fatter..if they aren't, it'll be cutting it SUPER close. i realized that you can actually screw the skeleton handle thread in upside down and it will lock by about two threads. this is not something i would recommend, i definitely feel like i could screw up the threads if i left it in this configuration. so, if that tip will fit, this picture should give you an indicator of whether or not your dabber handle's threads will make it..i'd recommend it be longer than this though..and that's assuming the threads match (US dime for reference):

 

[herbivore21]

great functionality on the business end for dropping in things like crumble, but if you're not using one of the new more slender tips (needle/flat tip) with shatter oil will run up the dabber because it is the coolest thing in the chamber. i definitely prefer to dab first, carb second, be it with the storm cell tip or another dabber. regarding the new tips - inside or outside - needle tip ftw. only other one i find myself using is the shovel style one for crumbles and sift. this is largely personal preference and does not mean the other dab tips have no function.

regarding the dnail/HE caps, there is a very narrow space between the outer body and the air intake:

so, if it's a cap that needs to sit over the top of the barrel it's going to be lopsided sitting on the air intake. i had a glass carb cap from idabber that i really liked and can't use it because of this. the only thing you'll be able to carb it with is something flat or something dome shaped that fits inside (of course the two different v3 caps are exactly that, with adjustable airflow)

which leads me to your question on the hurricane cap, there are lots of pics of it in the previous liger thread. it's a larger, more maneuverable cap that doesn't lock onto the top of the liger like a stove lid. it's a dense piece of ti that's shaped a bit like an upside-down UFO..you could imagine how that shape would carb this device efficiently (the flat coil in particular)

oh and lastly on your forked dabber tip, i'm not sure the threading matches, it looks like those threads are fatter..if they aren't, it'll be cutting it SUPER close. i realized that you can actually screw the skeleton handle thread in upside down and it will lock by about two threads. this is not something i would recommend, i definitely feel like i could screw up the threads if i left it in this configuration. so, if that tip will fit, this picture should give you an indicator of whether or not your dabber handle's threads will make it..i'd recommend it be longer than this though..and that's assuming the threads match (US dime for reference):

Hey man, I should clarify I am definitely going to get one of the Liger carb caps, I've always been a firm believer in having the matched cap to a given domeless nail

The forked dabber has the same thread as the HE dabbers do, so if the HE dabbers fit the caps (I saw a pic where HE dabbers fit a bunch of @alittledabwilldoya's liger carbs IIRC), then the D-nail ones will. The d-nail fork dabber has a small section that is narrower than the handle itself above the thread which I believe may allow for the spacer. I will definitely get a shovel dabber though since I'm a 100% full melt guy and don't have such a handle yet I am otherwise happy with the handles I already have so if they fit I'll stick with the shovel. Thanks for the heads up on the internal dabbers too! Sounds like those are not ideal yet but that's no problem, I'm also happy to dab with a plain old dabber handle

I really prefer not to be moving a carb cap around if I don't need to; sounds like the hurricane cap requires this, does it perform better than the storm cell cap in any way?

Thanks for the pic of the dabber handle too brother, it looks like the threads are the exact same length here as the d-nail forked dabber handle thread. If they are the same size as I suspect, then the only question is if the little section between the thread and the handle itself will fit the airflow washer around it? Either way no biggy I suppose

 

[Armerad]

In regards to using the dabber tools on the inside of the carb cap (so that dabs are one motion rather than dab/flip/cap), can beta testers address two things for me?

1: Is this option is available on the Storm Cell 3.0 with the master set? I am a little unclear on how the connection is made between the cap itself and the dabber tips. The "female" area of the carb cap itself appears wider and deeper on the Hurricane than the Storm Cell 3.0 I have seen (in this picture).

2: With the dab tips attached to the Hurricane cap, and the cap applied to the Liger v3 (preferably the 20mm, but I value all insight), are there any issues with the dab tips scraping against the interior wall of the banger due to the 3d rotation? Particularly with the larger/longer dabber tips such as the new shovel/scoop.

Thanks to all! Can't wait to take the plunge!

 

[herbivore21]

For those who prefer the 20mm v3 to the 30mm version - can you explain in as much detail as possible why this is?

 

[alittledabwilldoya']

For those who prefer the 20mm v3 to the 30mm version - can you explain in as much detail as possible why this is?

My CCA Beta background:

I bought the V2 20mm as a normal client, and was somewhat underwhelmed.
After sending in some questions and suggestions, and after a fairly long series of correspondences with Josh of CCA, he invited me to join the Beta team.

Given my initial impression of V2 20mm, I wasn't really that interested in the V3 20mm (other than for testing purposes).
So the fact that I prefer the 20mm to the 30mm is quite surprising.

The 20mm seems to provides:

More complete vaporization, with thicker more visible vapor.
Lower coil temps for equal dish temps.
Mates better with the Hurricane Cap (the smaller diameter bucket gives one greater range of 3-d motion).
Slightly lighter weight (neglible).

The 30 is better for monster dabs and macro shots.
The caveat here is the 30mm bucket is being reduced slightly in height by ~2mm to reduce volume, and there will be a larger heat shroud to more fully encase the flat coil.
These changes will help the 30's performance.

Both the 20 and 30 transmit very little heat to the glass joint.
In fact, I have been doing what in the past, would have been unthinkable: running w/o a dropdown!

Prior to buying a V2 I asked the question: "Would you put the Liger into a $100 rig? A $1000?"
It's been in this joint 24/7 for months now, and this rig is expensive.
It's cool enough that you can touch the joint with your lips (but don't touch the nail with your nose like I almost did!).

 

[herbivore21]

My CCA Beta background:

I bought the V2 20mm as a normal client, and was somewhat underwhelmed.
After sending in some questions and suggestions, and after a fairly long series of correspondences with Josh of CCA, he invited me to join the Beta team.

Given my initial impression of V2 20mm, I wasn't really that interested in the V3 20mm (other than for testing purposes).
So the fact that I prefer the 20mm to the 30mm is quite surprising.

The 20mm seems to provides:

More complete vaporization, with thicker more visible vapor.
Lower coil temps for equal dish temps.
Mates better with the Hurricane Cap (the smaller diameter bucket gives one greater range of 3-d motion).
Slightly lighter weight (neglible).

The 30 is better for monster dabs and macro shots.
The caveat here is the 30mm bucket is being reduced slightly in height by ~2mm to reduce volume, and there will be a larger heat shroud to more fully encase the flat coil.
These changes will help the 30's performance.

Both the 20 and 30 transmit very little heat to the glass joint.
In fact, I have been doing what in the past, would have been unthinkable: running w/o a dropdown!

Prior to buying a V2 I asked the question: "Would you put the Liger into a $100 rig? A $1000?"
It's been in this joint 24/7 for months now, and this rig is expensive.
It's cool enough that you can touch the joint with your lips (but don't touch the nail with your nose like I almost did!).

Ok I think I'm making some headway in what the differences are here now.

Tell me, do you only have the beta heater retainer/shroud for the 30mm v3 liger? I heard (from Josh) that this one was too large and was inefficient in distributing heat (hence the additional heat required to get to temp). Do you have the final release revised retainer/shroud that fits snugly and conducts better? If so, I'd expect the temp difference required from the coils to be minimal and perfectly justifiable (if you want to heat more surface area, you are going to need a higher overall temp from the heater or a nifty design to gain heat transfer efficiency some other way!).

Obviously, less than efficient heat transfer is also going to explain the slower, less efficient vaporization from the 30mm vs the 20mm in your experience too so this could potentially explain and resolve all of the negative points you mention about the 30mm vs the 20mm except for the additional manoeuvrability of the hurricane cap

I am only interested in using sapphire inserts really so it seems the 20mm is out of the question for my needs regardless. Also I prefer a broader dabbing surface since spreading your dab across a broader surface area leads to more efficient vaporization even for small dabs!!

 

[alittledabwilldoya']

Ok I think I'm making some headway in what the differences are here now.

Tell me, do you only have the beta heater retainer/shroud for the 30mm v3 liger? I heard (from Josh) that this one was too large and was inefficient in distributing heat (hence the additional heat required to get to temp). Do you have the final release revised retainer/shroud that fits snugly and conducts better? If so, I'd expect the temp difference required from the coils to be minimal and perfectly justifiable (if you want to hear more surface area, you are going to need a higher overall temp from the heater or a nifty design to gain heat transfer efficiency some other way!).

Obviously, less than efficient heat transfer is also going to explain the slower, less efficient vaporization from the 30mm vs the 20mm in your experience too so this could potentially explain and resolve all of the negative points you mention about the 30mm vs the 20mm except for the additional manoeuvrability of the hurricane cap

I do not have the finalized 30mm bucket and heat shroud yet, only the beta version.
Although I will definitely report in when I get my hands on one!

I have two different flat coils: a DNail standard flat and an Auber 12v flat.
The Auber coil is quite a bit thicker and makes better overall contact with the 30mm bucket.
I can run the 30mm with that coil @ ~640* vs ~690* with the DNail coil.

But I haven't kept the Auber 12v unit connected to the V3 30mm as the Auber 12v is for my travel rig, which I like to keep ready to roll.

 

[herbivore21]

I do not have the finalized 30mm bucket and heat shroud yet, only the beta version.
Although I will definitely report in when I get my hands on one!

I have two different flat coils: a DNail standard flat and an Auber 12v flat.
The Auber coil is quite a bit thicker and makes better overall contact with the 30mm bucket.
I can run the 30mm with that coil @ ~640* vs ~690* with the DNail coil.

But I haven't kept the Auber 12v unit connected to the V3 30mm as the Auber 12v is for my travel rig, which I like to keep ready to roll.

Excellent news! I believe we will find that revised heater shrouds will solve all of the issues you suggest that make you prefer the 20mm except for the decreased movement of the carb cap on the 30mm (which does not bother me so much ).

This means that for now, we should probably qualify those who have stated preferences for the 20mm model with the disclaimer that the beta heat shroud does not conduct heat properly and that the final version heater shroud should resolve the abovementioned drawbacks of the 30mm

 

[mrbonsai420]

Excellent news! I believe we will find that revised heater shrouds will solve all of the issues you suggest that make you prefer the 20mm except for the decreased movement of the carb cap on the 30mm (which does not bother me so much ).

This means that for now, we should probably qualify those who have stated preferences for the 20mm model with the disclaimer that the beta heat shroud does not conduct heat properly and that the final version heater shroud should resolve the above mentioned drawbacks of the 30mm

We are actually using washers in place of the new retaining nut/Heat shroud mentioned above. According to Josh this accomplishes the same thing but you may be right, we may like the final version a bit better. I don't think there will be a lot of difference between my washer tweaked beta and the final production 30mm but we shall see very soon. I'm sure there will be slight performance improvements but they will be marginal.
I don't think any of the Beta guys dislike the 30mm at all, it rocks. I just enjoy the 20mm more and it stays on my rig almost full time lately. My "big dab" loving buddy liked the 30mm much more when he tried both though BTW, so to each his own!

 

[herbivore21]

We are actually using washers in place of the new retaining nut/Heat shroud mentioned above. According to Josh this accomplishes the same thing but you may be right, we may like the final version a bit better. I don't think there will be a lot of difference between my washer tweaked beta and the final production 30mm but we shall see very soon. I'm sure there will be slight performance improvements but they will be marginal.
I don't think any of the Beta guys dislike the 30mm at all, it rocks. I just enjoy the 20mm more and it stays on my rig almost full time lately. My "big dab" loving buddy liked the 30mm much more when he tried both though BTW, so to each his own!

Thanks for the extra info brother can we clarify one thing: When you dab on the 30mm sapphire insert, at what temp is this giving clouds you guys consider comparable with the 20mm and is the taste good?

What I am thinking is that the temp on the dial of your controller to heat a bigger thermal mass (in this case, the bigger liger dish) is surely going to need to be higher than for the smaller thermal mass on the 20mm dish. If you turn up the 30mm liger with sapphire insert some to get better clouds, is the taste bad or is it still good?

Sorry just trying to really tease apart these comments and understand the differences as best as possible.

I really like 670 with the 20mm sic, 690 with the flat Sic

And I run my Sapphire 20mm at 630 or below and my 30mm sapphire around 650.

Quartz I run around 700 or 710 on both. Play around with temps. Some fine shatters I get prefer lower temps I find while others vaporize better 10 degrees hotter. Coil brand may vary slightly as well.

BUT MUCH lower can be "pulled off" if you don't mind hitting your dab in 2 or 3 hits. You don't really lose anything that way with the right rigs doing it that way (low blowback rigs I call them, diffusion pumps come to mind). I have dropped temps to 500 with the 20mm sapphire and gotten mad tasty vapor. It just didn't finish vaping the dab in 1 hit.

Oh shit I just noticed this one. If the clouds aren't as big on the 30mm sapphire at 650 vs 630 that actually doesn't sound unreasonable at all to me. I would expect that an insert this much bigger would be likely to require more than 20f extra heat on the coil - even taking into account the different heater coils. The question is, does the 30mm sapphire at 660-670f (for more full vaporization) taste noticeably worse than the 20mm at 630? The number on the dial of our controller has very little relationship to the temperature on our dabbing surface, regardless of the nail being used!

 

[mrbonsai420]

Thanks for the extra info brother can we clarify one thing: When you dab on the 30mm sapphire insert, at what temp is this giving clouds you guys consider comparable with the 20mm and is the taste good?

What I am thinking is that the temp on the dial of your controller to heat a bigger thermal mass (in this case, the bigger liger dish) is surely going to need to be higher than for the smaller thermal mass on the 20mm dish. If you turn up the 30mm liger with sapphire insert some to get better clouds, is the taste bad or is it still good?

Sorry just trying to really tease apart these comments and understand the differences as best as possible.



Oh shit I just noticed this one. If the clouds aren't as big on the 30mm sapphire at 650 vs 630 that actually doesn't sound unreasonable at all to me. I would expect that an insert this much bigger would be likely to require more than 20f extra heat on the coil - even taking into account the different heater coils. The question is, does the 30mm sapphire at 660-670f (for more full vaporization) taste noticeably worse than the 20mm at 630? The number on the dial of our controller has very little relationship to the temperature on our dabbing surface, regardless of the nail being used!

It's not that I don't get complete vaporization from the 30mm, I do. And I think the clouds are about the same with the same size dab. I will say I like the storm cell cap better with the V3 30mm vs the hurricane cap. I only prefer the hurricane cap on the 20mm. I am having trouble quantifying WHY I like the 20mm better. Maybe it's the fact that I don't worry about missing a wisp of vapor if I dab too far away from the air intake on the large skillet. Or maybe it's just what I am used to using?

Either way I think you would be most happy with the 20mm set-up w\ hurricane and SiC and sapphire options. Set up right next to your flat coil d-nail for easy comparison . But if you do go with the 30mm switch to the storm cell cap IMO.

 

[Baron23]

I agree my friend, it is likely that the differences and preferences will be subjective between the two. The polished sapphire is likely to be somewhat more durable, but is also more expensive for this reason. However, it is also not going to be amenable to a wicking surface because of the polished finish (the wicking surface for the d-nail products is made while the sapphire is grown in the lab from cultures, any polishing afterwards would obviously damage a wicking surface). The banger design is preferred by plenty of folks over traditional domeless nail designs (I do not prefer these with quartz but I can't say about the Liger banger design with regard to my preferences yet - quartz and titanium bangers are a very different beast!).

Basically, we can compare individual aspects as well as the subjective experience of the whole. Obviously, the latter is something that any of us can do if we have used the product. What I was saying above is: let's not presume to know whether individual design features are responsible or not in the absence of any clear evidence to support the claim - it seems like you are already thinking along these lines though and sticking to describing things from a subjective user experience perspective though so you may already understand my point

Hi @herbivore21 - I was wondering how long the wicking surface of a D-nail sapphire stays intact. That is, I would suppose that these wicking grooves are very small to provide capillary action. But don't they get filled rather quickly from residue and reclaim. I should think that this capability would be quickly compromised by use.

 

[alittledabwilldoya']

It's not that I don't get complete vaporization from the 30mm, I do. And I think the clouds are about the same with the same size dab. I will say I like the storm cell cap better with the V3 30mm vs the hurricane cap. I only prefer the hurricane cap on the 20mm. I am having trouble quantifying WHY I like the 20mm better. Maybe it's the fact that I don't worry about missing a wisp of vapor if I dab too far away from the air intake on the large skillet. Or maybe it's just what I am used to using?

Either way I think you would be most happy with the 20mm set-up w\ hurricane and SiC and sapphire options. Set up right next to your flat coil d-nail for easy comparison . But if you do go with the 30mm switch to the storm cell cap IMO.

Agreed, it's difficult to quantify.
But I'm pretty pragmatic, and I find that I'm using the 20 more than the 30.

I also concur regarding carbcap pairing.
I think that the best cap for the 20 is the Hurricane.
While the 30 mates the best with the Stormcell.
That being said I find myself using the Stormcell just as much the Hurricane on my 20; there is slight difference in draw restriction and airflow direction that is difficult to choose between.
And the different weights of the caps (the Huirricane is heavy) seem to change the rumble/purr of my rig.

Another difference I forgot to mention is that the 30 has a less restricted draw than the 20.
The 20 isn't tight, but if you use the same rig and only change buckets, you can tell a slight difference.
Oh, and I like the 20 because you can hot-swap inserts, the 30 inserts are quite a bit more shallow and I don't feel comfortable reaching in to extract them with a pair of forceps.

 

[herbivore21]

It's not that I don't get complete vaporization from the 30mm, I do. And I think the clouds are about the same with the same size dab. I will say I like the storm cell cap better with the V3 30mm vs the hurricane cap. I only prefer the hurricane cap on the 20mm. I am having trouble quantifying WHY I like the 20mm better. Maybe it's the fact that I don't worry about missing a wisp of vapor if I dab too far away from the air intake on the large skillet. Or maybe it's just what I am used to using?

Either way I think you would be most happy with the 20mm set-up w\ hurricane and SiC and sapphire options. Set up right next to your flat coil d-nail for easy comparison . But if you do go with the 30mm switch to the storm cell cap IMO.

Thanks so much for this man! It definitely sounds like the storm cell cap is what I am looking for. I never liked the idea of moving a carb around that much to be honest lol

This is making much more sense. Wait I thought there were no 20mm sapphire options? Am I wrong?

Hi @herbivore21 - I was wondering how long the wicking surface of a D-nail sapphire stays intact. That is, I would suppose that these wicking grooves are very small to provide capillary action. But don't they get filled rather quickly from residue and reclaim. I should think that this capability would be quickly compromised by use.

As long as I've had it my friend, it stays intact. As you know, my first sapphire halo was from the very first run. That nail still has it's wicking surface entirely as new, clean and unobstructed (and there's nowhere to hide from my high zoom optics ). Sapphire does not get old and shitty like quartz after a years use and cleaning, especially when quartz is torch cleaned! It looks like the day it was bought after a year's use!

For those who have not used sapphire yet - it is absolutely worth the hype and tastes so much better than SiC and quartz in the halos (I'll have thoughts to offer on the liger in the not-too-distant future! I won't have anything to contribute on the liger quartz though, since quartz was finished for me as a dabbing surface a couple of years ago!).

Agreed, it's difficult to quantify.
But I'm pretty pragmatic, and I find that I'm using the 20 more than the 30.

I also concur regarding carbcap pairing.
I think that the best cap for the 20 is the Hurricane.
While the 30 mates the best with the Stormcell.
That being said I find myself using the Stormcell just as much the Hurricane on my 20; there is slight difference in draw restriction and airflow direction that is difficult to choose between.
And the different weights of the caps (the Huirricane is heavy) seem to change the rumble/purr of my rig.

Another difference I forgot to mention is that the 30 has a less restricted draw than the 20.
The 20 isn't tight, but if you use the same rig and only change buckets, you can tell a slight difference.
Oh, and I like the 20 because you can hot-swap inserts, the 30 inserts are quite a bit more shallow and I don't feel comfortable reaching in to extract them with a pair of forceps.

Thanks for this too brother! I do not seek to be able to hot-swap inserts (cleaning is rapid for me as I have more than the usual cleaning implements in my little vape workshop lol). I do like a slightly more restricted airflow but there is adjustable airflow on both of the carb cap options right? How widely adjustable is this?

 

[mrbonsai420]

Thanks so much for this man! It definitely sounds like the storm cell cap is what I am looking for. I never liked the idea of moving a carb around that much to be honest lol

This is making much more sense. Wait I thought there were no 20mm sapphire options? Am I wrong?


As long as I've had it my friend, it stays intact. As you know, my first sapphire halo was from the very first run. That nail still has it's wicking surface entirely as new, clean and unobstructed (and there's nowhere to hide from my high zoom optics ). Sapphire does not get old and shitty like quartz after a years use and cleaning, especially when quartz is torch cleaned! It looks like the day it was bought after a year's use!

For those who have not used sapphire yet - it is absolutely worth the hype and tastes so much better than SiC and quartz in the halos (I'll have thoughts to offer on the liger in the not-too-distant future! I won't have anything to contribute on the liger quartz though, since quartz was finished for me as a dabbing surface for me a couple of years ago!).




Thanks for this too brother! I do not seek to be able to hot-swap inserts (cleaning is rapid for me as I have more than the usual cleaning implements in my little vape workshop lol). I do like a slightly more restricted airflow but there is adjustable airflow on both of the carb cap options right? How widely adjustable is this?

You don't HAVE to move the hurricane around any more than you have to spin the storm cell. It's just encouraged. I like how easy the hurricane is to drop in place on the 20mm as well, not just the 3d movement. And the 4 air intake settings on both caps give you a wide range of air flow. From Wide open enough to spin a recycler (4 holes open) to restrictive and super cloudy (1 hole open)

And yes, after discussing with Josh that I will still be using the 20mm day to day and the fact that I think it is still the ideal size, and that he should definitely offer the sapphire in the 20mm and 30mm sizes he is. So yeah I pretty much begged him to make the 20mm happen because I couldn't live without it on a personal level lol.

 

[herbivore21]

You don't HAVE to move the hurricane around any more than you have to spin the storm cell. It's just encouraged. I like how easy the hurricane is to drop in place on the 20mm as well, not just the 3d movement. And the 4 air intake settings on both caps give you a wide range of air flow. From Wide open enough to spin a recycler (4 holes open) to restrictive and super cloudy (1 hole open)

And yes, after discussing with Josh that I will still be using the 20mm day to day and the fact that I think it is still the ideal size, and that he should definitely offer the sapphire in the 20mm and 30mm sizes he is. So yeah I pretty much begged him to make the 20mm happen because I couldn't live without it on a personal level lol.

Hmmm to me for full melt (also some of those wonderful sugar type consistencies we see coming from the likes of Extractioneering and Moxie), we would want a bigger dish because there is the chance that a good scoop of whole unpressed resin glands might otherwise hit the side of the dish from most shovel type tools. The appeal to me of the Liger is to minimize the chance of me shovelling full melt onto a less-than-ideal part of the nail (down the air intake, on a titanium part rather than the sapphire). Of course, I can completely see how it might be preferred to have the 20mm version when one is dabbing various oil type extractions.

This is a real sticking point for me lol, I think so far it seems like the 30mm with a storm cell cap is ideal for my needs. Do any of you guys dab much full melt? Does @ccchase420 by chance have both the 20mm and the 30mm with sapphire inserts? Can you offer your thoughts on your preferences for shovelling dabs or powdery/sugary full melt?

Thanks for all the help guys!

 

[alittledabwilldoya']

Hmmm to me for full melt (also some of those wonderful sugar type consistencies we see coming from the likes of Extractioneering and Moxie), we would want a bigger dish because there is the chance that a good scoop of whole unpressed resin glands might otherwise hit the side of the dish from most shovel type tools. The appeal to me of the Liger is to minimize the chance of me shovelling full melt onto a less-than-ideal part of the nail (down the air intake, on a titanium part rather than the sapphire). Of course, I can completely see how it might be preferred to have the 20mm version when one is dabbing various oil type extractions.

This is a real sticking point for me lol, I think so far it seems like the 30mm with a storm cell cap is ideal for my needs. Do any of you guys dab much full melt? Does @ccchase420 by chance have both the 20mm and the 30mm with sapphire inserts? Can you offer your thoughts on your preferences for shovelling dabs or powdery/sugary full melt?

Thanks for all the help guys!

Ahhh, that makes sense.
Sadly for me, I typically dab wax (although it is good wax).

The 30 paired with Stormcell would be ideal for powdery/sugary concentrates.
And all other things being equal, not having the hole in the middle (as do the Halos), will make dumping the dab quite a bit easier.
Big ol' skillet!

Plus there is a nice Ti shovel dabber attachment.

 

[herbivore21]

Ahhh, that makes sense.
Sadly for me, I typically dab wax (although it is good wax).

The 30 paired with Stormcell would be ideal for powdery/sugary concentrates.
And all other things being equal, not having the hole in the middle (as do the Halos), will make dumping the dab quite a bit easier.
Big ol' skillet!

Plus there is a nice Ti shovel dabber attachment.

This is it man, this is the claim that I'm putting to the test by getting myself a sapphire Liger.

I completely understand that you are not usually dabbing full melt bro - if you can't make it yourself, that shit is way too expensive for us mere mortals to afford to dab on the regular! I wouldn't be able to afford to dab retail full melt as often as I do either!

When I got my sapphire halo, I was mostly dabbing rosin and some solvent based concentrates. I'd never made any substantial amount of full melt (by the way @killick, don't be surprised if your first few bubble attempts give you almost no full melt - also remember that you can vape any less melty hash and IMO it is more enjoyable than dabbing most oils) at the time when I got my first Sapphire Halo. My bubble tek was not up to par to produce reliable and sustainable amounts of full melt for my daily medical needs back then. Since my tek has developed to the point that I have more full melt than rosin at any given time now, attention shifts back towards testing different and more effective/efficient ways of consuming it!

Besides the ease of aiming the dab, I am also very interested to see if the different heating methods negatively or positively effect the efficiency of the melting part of dabbing full melt (all who have had full melt know that it needs a moment to melt and bubble before major vapor clouds emerge and so a dab typically takes longer than an equally weighted dab of oil - efficient heat transfer is god here!). I'll be sure to report back with my findings on this

 

[Monsoon]

I'm looking forward to the release of the V3! I'm leaning towards the 30mm with SiC and maybe sapphire inserts depending on the pricing. I still love the Halo's but I also like variety and based on the reviews of the betas I'm going to give them another shot. I figure if I hate it, it won't be too hard to get rid of. I've mainly been dabbing some flavourful BHO lately but I like big dabs so I think the larger size will suit me better. I might try both carb caps since I figure it'll increase my chances of a config that I like. I know just from the D-Nail carb cap that very slight changes can have a pretty big result in the dabbing experience.

Just wondering, if an insert does get stuck inside, is there an easy way of unsticking it? I'd hate to get a sapphire stuck in there with no way of getting it out.

 

[nodrog]

Unsticking: I've had a real problem with this. Only way I found is to set the enail at like 700 for an hour then increase it to around 850-900 for an hour (or more, as needed), then tap it HARD on a desk or counter. The hot insert will tumble out, accompanied by a puffy pile of gritty black bits. Oh, and I remove the bucket from the rest of the banger before doing this, makes it easier to swing the hot bucket and hit hard to get the insert out.

 

[Danksta]

Does this "sticking" happen easily or over time? I was thinking removing the insert after each session would prevent the sticking? I was thinking of doing that already to keep the sapphire insert clean.