CCA Liger banger V3.0

[alittledabwilldoya']

If they are making production of this Air, where are the pics of the actual prototypes? Are the Beta testers testing?




With the 30mm Sapphire in a quartz banger, I went down to 440F last night on the MiniNail coil and still felt really hot. Gonna have to Ktype this bad boy to know where i am at.



Today's set up is a 25mm Halen Bucket with a 20mm obsidian and one ruby with the gordo bubble at 550F on the Augusthaus. Vapes much faster with obsidian than sapphire. I can actually see the banger clear out with the obsidian and one ruby. And that one ruby is spinning like crazy inside the obsidian. The machining of the obsidian is smoother than sapphire and other inserts.

I haven't gotten my hands on a Liger Air yet (nor seen pictures).
Excited though.

Wow, that's a low coil temp.
I don't have a K-type thermometer but @ 550* coil temp my Hex-Nail's calculated nail temp is 396*.
By the way 550* (30mm Liger/sapphire/2 ruby spheres/Coojo cap) is heavenly … 540* next.

I used the Obsidian first with the spheres as a proof of concept before moving on to pairing them with the sapphire insert and have yet to go back.​

I will have to try my Obsidian insert with spheres again, as you note the Obsidian is extremely smooth and I think the way the inner bottom edge of the dish is rounded nicely matches the radius of the spheres.

The Gordo Riptide caps really do get those spheres zinging around the insert!
I would love to find/commission (when funds are present) a Gordo Riptide Bubble, ideally GTR (or flat for that matter) that will seal the 30mm Liger.

That would be the next level.

 

[Gn0sis]

I haven't gotten my hands on a Liger Air yet (nor seen pictures).
Excited though.

Wow, that's a low coil temp.
I don't have a K-type thermometer but @ 550* coil temp my Hex-Nail's calculated nail temp is 396*.
By the way 550* (30mm Liger/sapphire/2 ruby spheres/Coojo cap) is heavenly … 540* next.

The Gordo Riptide caps really do get those spheres zinging around the insert!
I would love to find/commission (when funds are present) a Gordo Riptide Bubble, ideally GTR (or flat for that matter) that will seal the 30mm Liger.

That would be the next level.

It's my dream too to get gordo to make a cap just for the 30mm... I've already tried. He made an attempt and made me a larger base flat/non-bubble riptide cap. I wasn't happy with the result, so he gave me a full refund and said sorry he couldn't help me. This was over a year ago though.

Really awesome/pleasant guy to deal with in general. He already had 30k followers back then, but was still replying to my Instagram DMs very quickly.

Unfortunately, the Hexnail doesn't accurately calculate the actual dish surface temp. I know that an IR thermometer isn't the most accurate, but when my PID is set to 530F, the IR thermometer shows 480F to 490F, which I'm much more inclined to believe than the Hexnail algorithms which calculate it to be 380F.... There is no way there is a ~150F difference between the coil and dish. I've spoken to one of the girls from Hexnail about this and they admitted the algorithm needs a lot more fine tuning and that at this point its nothing more than advanced guessing.

I don't believe those algorithms will ever be perfected because of all the different variables which they cannot account for without adding extra temperature sensors.

Some of those variables being such things as how tightly the coil is screwed onto the bucket. Thermal conductivity is going to vary significantly between those who tightened the locking nut on the bottom with just their hands vs those who used tools to get the coil in extra tight. The ambient temperature is another big factor. In winter, my room gets a bit cold sometimes and I find 540F on the controller to be ideal for my tastes. In summer, 540F feels too hot. So, right now, I have it lowered to 533F.

 

[ensabbahnur]

I don't believe those algorithms will ever be perfected because of all the different variables which they cannot account for without adding extra temperature sensors.

I was of the understanding both Hex units have separate "internal" temp sensors explicitly for this reason.
I believe they have also specifically been blamed for production/delivery delays in the past.

I think if you factor a 10-12 second delay (that all Hex units seem to suffer from) from what your IR gun will say to what the Hex will say will end up with a much closer number. This has consistently been my experience with both Hex units and multiple nails/styles.....having said that however as I've stated clearly before, I still do not feel we have a fully accurate, repeatable method of measuring dish surface temp, you can talk about your k type surface contact couples all you want but reading a few review sets of amazon reaffirm most are uncalibrated garbage no better than an uncalibrated IR gun.

 

[Baron23]

I don't have a K-type thermometer but @ 550* coil temp my Hex-Nail's calculated nail temp is 396*.

Wow, that's a big delta. I do have K-type thermo and found my Liger v2, 20mm, runs about 40-50 F cooler at the dab surface then the set point/TC reporting.

I was of the understanding both Hex units have separate "internal" temp sensors explicitly for this reason.

No way. There is no Hexnail thermocouple touching your dab surface. There is no way for any controller to know the actual surface temp....all they know is what the TC on the end of your coil reports as coil temp. As far as I recall, its calculated temp based on a model they developed with one of the units in hand. But as pointed out, the variables can be quite large and I don't think that approach will ever work accurately across a large population of rigs and owners.

 

[Shooby]

I would love to find/commission (when funds are present) a Gordo Riptide Bubble, ideally GTR (or flat for that matter) that will seal the 30mm Liger.

I was playing with the GTR and its much much smaller than the Riptide bubble cap. I was gonna grab one but when i saw how much smaller, i decided to wait. I am looking for the gordo riptide OG cap to use on my 35mm banger. I want to get the balls spinning in the 30mm sapphire!!!! But i figured to wait til 710 to find a deal on one of those some where. Another thing about the GTR is that you have to always cover holes and cant just drop the cap on top and look at the balls spin. But i bet some how, ill end up buying one eventually.

It's my dream too to get gordo to make a cap just for the 30mm... I've already tried. He made an attempt and made me a larger base flat/non-bubble riptide cap. I wasn't happy with the result, so he gave me a full refund and said sorry he couldn't help me. This was over a year ago though.

I think he wants one for the same reason as me. To move the spheres around in circles.

I still do not feel we have a fully accurate, repeatable method of measuring dish surface temp, you can talk about your k type surface contact couples all you want but reading a few review sets of amazon reaffirm most are uncalibrated garbage no better than an uncalibrated IR gun.

I thought the same thing as you for a while. I went through 4-6 of the cheap $15 to $40 Ktypes on Amazon and they all sucked ass. Said fuck it and spend like $60 and this one is awesome as i leave the SS probe in my bucket, come back in 5 mins and it reads one temp only. No bouncing between temps. I can do it 3-4 times in a row or do it again the following day and get the same temps as long as i dont change anything else. The $100 and above ones reads must faster but i do not need speed. Stay away from any of the Ktype Thermometers under $40 and any that is used for food.

IR guns is only good to give you an estimated temp range to take your dabs when using torch. Thats if you have your quartz frosted somewhere on the bucket to read the temp as IR will not read clear glass. IR is useless for dish temps for coils tho as it bounces around temps non stop.

No way. There is no Hexnail thermocouple touching your dab surface. There is no way for any controller to know the actual surface temp....all they know is what the TC on the end of your coil reports as coil temp. As far as I recall, its calculated temp based on a model they developed with one of the units in hand. But as pointed out, the variables can be quite large and I don't think that approach will ever work accurately across a large population of rigs and owners.

That is what MiniNail does on their PID. Its pre-calibrated using a formula they worked out to have their PIDs read the nail temp but only using their MiniNail Nails. But like he said, once you use another nail such as a Liger, their formula wont work.

What i try to do is get an understanding on the delta of each PID and insert temp. Using one PID, i will test the temps on different coils with bangers and inserts to see what the delta is. Then use that average when using that PID with those inserts to know what the dish temp is when i read my PID. But when you have one nail such as the Liger Flat coil that has a huge delta, you dont use that temp in your avg.

Time for a torch & full opaque drop in dab with some Raw Garden Sauce in the office. Gotta lock the doors! Love my Hump Day!

 

[ensabbahnur]

No way. There is no Hexnail thermocouple touching your dab surface. There is no way for any controller to know the actual surface temp....all they know is what the TC on the end of your coil reports as coil temp. As far as I recall, its calculated temp based on a model they developed with one of the units in hand. But as pointed out, the variables can be quite large and I don't think that approach will ever work accurately across a large population of rigs and owners.

Yea way, I feel as if you and I have spoken on this before. Ill go back and find the posts from Hex if needed, including where they were blamed for holding up units being shipped, but Im all but certain they use an additional temp sensor inside the unit itself to "account" for ambient temps and vary their formula. You can blow air across a Hex unit (with no air hitting the nail) and the temp will change (beyond the normal Hex fluctuations). Again, Im not saying its accurate, nor am I saying the numerous other variables are in any way accounted for......but the additional temp sensors in the Hex units do exist.

 

[Baron23]

but Im all but certain they use an additional temp sensor inside the unit itself to "account" for ambient temps and vary their formula.

They may indeed have an internal TC to measure ambient temp and use that to tweak the offset their model is using to predict the dab surface temp. But, its still a model and still absolutely NOT a direct measurement.

Adding ambient temp as a variable in their enail models is fine...but its still a second order (at least) measurement and garbage in is garbage out. The only way to know how accurate it is is to compare its predicted dab surface temp with a known, good, calibrated thermometer.

I come up with about 40 degrees of delta with my V2 20mm with tight coils, as I said.

 

[stayoutoftheway]

"Liger-AIRs will be shipping Monday-tuesday next week, it's taking longer than expected to fulfill the hundreds of orders. Rest assured this thing is insane! Will definitely be putting a smile on your face when you hold it!! It's sooo tiny! Will be posting some direct comparisons this week"

I'm still unsure how being smaller is going to be better in any way. Just seems like it's going to be more reactive to environmental variables and such.

"We are packing up orders now, so everything will ship smoothly early next week!"

Yet another time commitment from the good 'ol guys at CCA710. Hopefully this will be the last one we hear.

 

[releasethekraken]

Yet another time commitment from the good 'ol guys at CCA710. Hopefully this will be the last one we hear.

I have to talk myself out of canceling my order everytime CCA710 posts something new on instagram. The accuracy of their posts is abysmal.

 

[Shooby]

"Liger-AIRs will be shipping Monday-tuesday next week, it's taking longer than expected to fulfill the hundreds of orders. Rest assured this thing is insane! Will definitely be putting a smile on your face when you hold it!! It's sooo tiny! Will be posting some direct comparisons this week"

I'm still unsure how being smaller is going to be better in any way. Just seems like it's going to be more reactive to environmental variables and such.

"We are packing up orders now, so everything will ship smoothly early next week!"

Yet another time commitment from the good 'ol guys at CCA710. Hopefully this will be the last one we hear.

I hope so but i am still skeptic as its suppose to ship in less that a week and yet, there is still NO PICTURES of this fucking thing!!!!! I dont get it. Most companies will show the actual prototype.

I have to talk myself out of canceling my order everytime CCA710 posts something new on instagram. The accuracy of their posts is abysmal.

I know the feeling...

 

[stayoutoftheway]

I have to talk myself out of canceling my order everytime CCA710 posts something new on instagram. The accuracy of their posts is abysmal.

I think I'm at my edge. If they don't ship next week I'm canceling my order.

 

[releasethekraken]

I think I'm at my edge. If they don't ship next week I'm canceling my order.

I was ready and expecting to wait the long haul, but whoever the canker is that posts for CCA710 on IG is giving the Company some serious credibility issues. Zach stated he has no access to anything IG related.

 

[KimDracula]

We know they aren't reliable when it comes to shipping times. Don't let 'em get your hopes up. Not sure it makes sense to ask for a refund after you've already been waiting a while, either, unless you're broke and need the money back or have decided to go for an alternative product. Hang in there. Hope your stuff comes soon.

 

[stayoutoftheway]

We know they aren't reliable when it comes to shipping times. Don't let 'em get your hopes up. Not sure it makes sense to ask for a refund after you've already been waiting a while, either, unless you're broke and need the money back or have decided to go for an alternative product. Hang in there. Hope your stuff comes soon.

I would go with a D-NAiL for a bit cheaper. Given I do not want the D-NAiL nearly as much as i would like the Liger, it's just very frustrating. You are right though, it's almost counterproductive to cancel the order after all of this waiting, when the release could be within the next month.

 

[GSR]

Im still waiting as well. Its been over a month since I paid for an obsidian insert. The site said 1-2 weeks, zach said by the end of the 3rd when I emailed him, and I’m now into my 5th week with no insert.

I asked if he had a new eta after his 2nd promise failed to deliver last monday, but he hasn’t responded back. Idk what to do at this point. I guess they wont make any obsidian inserts now until the liger air is produced?

 

[releasethekraken]

Its been over a month since I paid for an obsidian insert.

This was a recent post from their IG. . .
"got lots of Flat Coil OBSIDIAN in stock ready to go! For the 20mm OBSIDIAN, we are waiting on laser engraving. They will be finished and shipped out this week!"

 

[GSR]

This was a recent post from their IG. . .
"got lots of Flat Coil OBSIDIAN in stock ready to go! For the 20mm OBSIDIAN, we are waiting on laser engraving. They will be finished and shipped out this week!"

Hopefully this third eta will work out

Thank you for the info sir

 

[alittledabwilldoya']

Update on the performance of the ruby spheres:

I'm using a 30mm Liger with a sapphire insert and two ruby inserts (+ an AugustHaus Liger coil).
Prior to the introduction of the ruby spheres I was happy running @590*.
With two spheres I am down to 530*!!!

With better taste, bigger clouds, and smoother hits.
I don't know if anyone other than @Shooby and myself have used these things, but now (after a bit more experimentation) I highly recommend them.

Standard part of the kit now.

 

[Ribman18]

I watch this thread all the time and luv it!
I ordered my liger way back in Feb. Since then I've learned of carb caps and coils etc. After I ordered my liger, I ordered a custom Coojo cap....its here. Ive ordered an AH coil... Its here. I even ordered some quartz spheres from china.. they are here. CCA Sucks!!!

 

[stayoutoftheway]

I watch this thread all the time and luv it!
I ordered my liger way back in Feb. Since then I've learned of carb caps and coils etc. After I ordered my liger, I ordered a custom Coojo cap....its here. Ive ordered an AH coil... Its here. I even ordered some quartz spheres from china.. they are here. CCA Sucks!!!

Hahaha I'm so with you brother. I'm not meaning to bash by any means - I think* they make a fantastic product with subpar customer service. Ive ordered my Augusthaus kit around the same time as my Liger, took a month to get my Augusthaus but he made it up to me and has been awesome to work with since. I then ordered two carb caps for the Liger from two Instagram artists, recieved those, and just today got in my Coojo cap, still waitin' on that Liger

 

[Gn0sis]

 

[mutten840]

Hey Guys,

Slightly off topic-ish,

I got sick of the high prices for coils and decided to start selling them. Everything on the site comes in three colors and in a US or European version. I am also offering free domestic shipping and very reasonable international shipping.
I have plans to carry the Axial coils and even quartz bangers at some point. So there will be much more as I get things up to speed

Please check my site out and hit me up if you have any questions.

https://710coils.com/

 

[Ribman18]

I'm kinda starting to worry that Cca may have encountered some new unforeseen setback. They said on insta comparison vids coming soon, several days ago, and nothing yet..I have no information to base this on it is pure speculation. What if?making the Liger so much thinner, and lighter causes heat to transfer too quickly,cracking inserts. Or cooling too quickly when a large dab is applied also causing thermal shock to inserts. IDK ,why else not show us one in action. Im just frustrated. I dont own a liger yet, never even used one.

 

[stayoutoftheway]

I'm kinda starting to worry that Cca may have encountered some new unforeseen setback. They said on insta comparison vids coming soon, several days ago, and nothing yet..I have no information to base this on it is pure speculation. What if?making the Liger so much thinner, and lighter causes heat to transfer too quickly,cracking inserts. Or cooling too quickly when a large dab is applied also causing thermal shock to inserts. IDK ,why else not show us one in action. Im just frustrated. I dont own a liger yet, never even used one.

I agree. I'm hoping they release tomorrow or the next day, but i doubt it. I'm also worried about it being thinner. I have never used a liger but I really liked the "bulky" look of the 3.0

 

[Shrike]

The first batches of Liger-Air's were supposed to be shipping out on Monday and today...anyone get any shipping notifications that this has in fact begun?