CBD Tincture...50 State Legal!

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darkrom

Great Scott!
For their defense: we must know that France is really, really late on the medical marijuana (then the recreational ...:rolleyes:).
The subject is VERY controversial here ...

So why demonize a very effective and helpful natural medical compound in the plant?
 

canj00digit?

All my days in a daze...
I understand that, as a business, they want to distance themselves for the illegality of THC in the jurisdiction they operate. Perfectly reasonable. However, the language should have been "without the psychoactive effect of THC". Which would clearly convey their point without using the damaging hyperbole of prohibitionists.
 

snamuh

ghost
Well it it can make me psychotic... No lie. That's why I want cbd.

That's actually something that pisses me off about a lot of pro pot people.
I kinda hate both sides of the debate.

Its just like how some people can't drink alcohol or caffeine...

Yin and yang...

People try to divide info up instead just admitting to reality. Its different for everyone. That's the plain reality.
 

futaie

Active Member
I understand that, as a business, they want to distance themselves for the illegality of THC in the jurisdiction they operate. Perfectly reasonable. However, the language should have been "without the psychoactive effect of THC". Which would clearly convey their point without using the damaging hyperbole of prohibitionists.

I did email them to ask to use the french word "psychoactive" instead of "psychotic", I let you guys inform for their answer.
But on the other hand, psychotic seizure occurs to me too when I use THC,
Well it it can make me psychotic... No lie. That's why I want cbd.
so I'm agree, each person must found his right molecule and dosage. :peace:
 
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canj00digit?

All my days in a daze...
Well it it can make me psychotic... No lie. That's why I want cbd.

That's actually something that pisses me off about a lot of pro pot people.
I kinda hate both sides of the debate.

Its just like how some people can't drink alcohol or caffeine...

Yin and yang...

People try to divide info up instead just admitting to reality. Its different for everyone. That's the plain reality.

Fair enough. You have a very valid point, one I appreciate you presenting me with. I always try to remain factual. There is of course some evidence that THC can cause psychotic like symptoms in people. Definitely. If you really feel THC is actually causing you to experience true psychotic episodes please cease use and seek help, nothing to fuck around with.

But, I am sure you will admit, the risk-to-fear ratio is extremely out of whack (thus prohibition) and I don't appreciate a company that makes it's money on cannabis compounds contributing to that fear when it doesn't have to.

psychotic seizure occurs to me too when I use THC,

Wow, really?

My goodness I wouldn't touch a substance that causes me psychosis and seizures(?!). I don't even like being drunk. :(

For you guys I see why the THC(A) content must be very reliably extremely low.
 
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darkrom

Great Scott!
@canj00digit?
Yes as I know it's called Brief psychotic disorder. It happens to me one time so I'm not using THC anymore ; CBD products contain less than 0.2% THC so I'm ok with it.
:)

Well it is definitely not that because it states it must not be caused by a substance.


I agree THC can cause psychosis like sysmptoms, but baring people predisposed or with underlying mental conditions, it is almost always a dosage issue.

Do you mind me asking was the dosage either high, or in edible form when you had the negative experience?

I've had psychosis like symptoms when I ate a 1g hash edible and smoked 1g of hash before it kicked in. That was a severe overdose for me. THC helps me but if I go over a certain amount it becomes a negative thing.

IMO the poison is in the dosage like most things.
 

snamuh

ghost
Well it is definitely not that because it states it must not be caused by a substance.


I agree THC can cause psychosis like sysmptoms, but baring people predisposed or with underlying mental conditions, it is almost always a dosage issue.

Do you mind me asking was the dosage either high, or in edible form when you had the negative experience?

I've had psychosis like symptoms when I ate a 1g hash edible and smoked 1g of hash before it kicked in. That was a severe overdose for me. THC helps me but if I go over a certain amount it becomes a negative thing.

IMO the poison is in the dosage like most things.
.
Warning: This post is probably very scatter brained..

Yeah I agree with you that the poison is in the dose.. But that's the whole point. I've never even heard dosage talked about ever in any local news story or even around here (come to think it pretty much never when it comes to the east coast media). Is just the naysayers saying make it illegal or the stoners saying smoke week everyday...

After a month or so break I vaped what was probably no bigger than half a fingernail clipping, and felt what I see as negative effects. (After my haydays, its been 10 years since starting, my last 3 years I've taken what I'd say are significant breaks but for no more than a month or two at a time.

I grew up learning from rap music and pop culture and got in the the everyday habit. I was very depressed as a 17-22 year old and smoking was, I believe, the best crutch I had to get me through that time. But after I learned what I needed to learn the habit stayed with me and with the [uneeded/dosages] habit came negative effects. (Theres a banned ted talk by graham Hancock that kinda talks about this on YouTube)

I hate even talking about it because there is so much to it that you can't blame anything. Its life.

That stuff being said I can build a tolerance and still enjoy a pack before bed. But socially its gonna stay at less then half a hit. And I've had edibles while alone that paralize me but are enjoyable...

I'm not trying to say weed is a cause of problems for all but that it can signicantly fuck a person up when combined with other forces in life. IMHO it should be treated more serious than it is, but it should also be completely legal to buy sell and grow. I feel it would be a great way to spend weed profits in legal areas... Teaching kids what drugs really are, and their various uses an the importance of dosing. That way it might reduce binging, and junkies of any drug culture might be able to understand proper balancing techniques for living productive lives.

I never understood these pissing contests whatever subject they are about be it any drug.
I remember being at a party in highschool and kids making fun of a kid for holding a blunt "wrong"... How fucked up is that. No one taught the parents and no one taught the kids.

It's a touchy subject. The only way to fix it is honesty and acceptance.

When I get my life sorted again, find good people to live around, have a realistic income... I think that will have an effect of how smoking effects me and my issues with it will be fine. (If not smoking daily)

Cbd when I was able to try it, was pretty much all the beneficial aspect of weed without the intense spiraling out of control. Although I did take a big dose of cbd and feel similar effects but it was more brief and slightly different but maybe the same intensity (tincture hit me at a bad time)... I probably even intake less cbd than most of you.

I hope cbd dabs become legal (legal as in common knowledge and not haveing to sift through random websites to find contradictory info) if nothing else.
 
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Jeppy

Pure Vaporist
:2c:"Psychosis" is a strong word. Too strong for some use. It is commonly used in the mental health field to describe auditory or visual stimuli. In fact, one of these symtoms are a requirement for diagnosis. So, who experiences this upon use of cannabis, after never having psychotic symptoms before?
 

futaie

Active Member
Do you mind me asking was the dosage either high, or in edible form when you had the negative experience?
Most likely high dosage over a long period. The reaction I had is called also in french bouffée délirante aiguë.

.
Cbd when I was able to try it, was pretty much all the beneficial aspect of weed without the intense spiraling out of control.
I'm very agree with this. It's why I'm using CBD too, it has only be positive for me since the beginning.

.
Although I did take a big dose of cbd and feel similar effects but it was more brief and slightly different but maybe the same intensity (tincture hit me at a bad time)... I probably even intake less cbd than most of you.
This happened to me too when I took too much of the 38% concentrate and as you say it was different and more manageable and much less unpleasant : more "physical effects" to deal with...

So, who experiences this upon use of cannabis, after never having psychotic symptoms before?
I don't know if I understand correctly but I never had psychotic symptoms before smoking weed but I'm agree, there must be a (genetic) predisposition.

:)
 
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Jeppy

Pure Vaporist
@futaie So are you saying you used cannabis, and began seeing things that really weren't there? Hearing voices, talking to you? That's psychotic symptoms. In 40 years of continuous use of cannabis, and a career in the mental health field, I have never met 1 person that made that claim.
 

Jeppy

Pure Vaporist
@landrace I am? I better go back to college. Also, I better give back my retirement to the Dept of Mental health. However, I will clarify. Schizophrenia is the clinical written diagnosis of psychosis. Providing more specifics of the psychotic disorder or disorders, DSM-III, and then DSM-IV, DSM-V, were and currently are the main diagnostic tools.
 
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snamuh

ghost
@futaie So are you saying you used cannabis, and began seeing things that really weren't there? Hearing voices, talking to you? That's psychotic symptoms. In 40 years of continuous use of cannabis, and a career in the mental health field, I have never met 1 person that made that claim.

I have had auditory hallucinations.
I find it surprising that you haven't heard of it happening. I've seen it mentioned in documentaries before.

The first time I smoked. I was alone at dusk in a tunnel under the highway. I smoked a whole joint alone and by the time I was finished it was dark out. I got very paranoid in a fearful way and heard my name being called. It has happened a few times... I always considered these effects as panic attacks.

I dont want to set this thread off track but do people with PTSD have audio and visual hallucinations? I wouldn't be surprised is I had PTSD. Although I have never been in a drastic situation (war, etc)

Gotta make money so I can see a docter haha. Hopefully I can land a job off my associates degree in a year or so!
 
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futaie

Active Member
@futaie So are you saying you used cannabis, and began seeing things that really weren't there? Hearing voices, talking to you? That's psychotic symptoms. In 40 years of continuous use of cannabis, and a career in the mental health field, I have never met 1 person that made that claim.

As I said it happened to me one time in my life and I did take some medication at this time to return back to normal, it took some time but I never experiment again these psychotic symptoms (I stopped using weed)
As I remember, it was called by doctor "bouffée délirante aigue" as a short psychotic episode. I was not seeing things or hearing voices, I was just in a altered vision of the world and people (wrong thoughts about reality/little paranoid...)

It's very interesting that you worked in the Dept of Mental health and I can say doctors know a lot of things about brain, behavior and mental diseases but it's nothing compare to what they don't know.
I remember a talk with a friend which have a "real" mental disease and him and his doctor came to the conclusion that psychiatrist are more in an "artistic approach" with their patient because they are not sure of the result, they are permanently trying to adjust to approach a final result (and it's not an exact science)

Too often here (I don't know in the US), the only solution is chemical drugs when exists some natural cure very beneficial for human being... (I'm not talking about disease like schizophrenia or others "serious" mental diseases who must be cure with caution)
 

Jeppy

Pure Vaporist
@futaie, your speculating as you have no experience in this area. You took psychotropic medication one time. That's not experience in the mental health field. Experience comes from but is not limited to working daily with patients, doctors, family members, ancillary staff. Additionally thereis extended study of illnesses of all natures and medications as well as additional treatments. I have worked both County and State facilities. One services individuals in current crises, and one services chronic/severe mental illness. Working at county mental health seeing individuals brought in daily in crises over the course of 20 years, i can say there is not one documented case of an individual brought in and diagnosed with psychosis due to Marijuana.
 

darkrom

Great Scott!
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Sounds like a good thing to me. One final move, lab results to keep these hardcore idiots at bay and prevent another pointless shutdown.
 

grokit

well-worn member
The first time I smoked. I was alone at dusk in a tunnel under the highway. I smoked a whole joint alone and by the time I was finished it was dark out. I got very paranoid in a fearful way and heard my name being called. It has happened a few times... I always considered these effects as panic attacks.
This is common for new users, or those that have taken an extended break from mj and it does create a lot of confusion, especially when it happens to a well-read columnist. The issues are dosage and tolerance; a noobe's body hasn't had time to manufacture the required endo-cannibinoid receptors for the amount of cannibinoids being introduced to it, and this is the predictable result of ingesting too big of a dose for one's tolerance. I see this as a built-in safety mechanism that tells one to stop ingesting, since mj causes no actual physical harm (gatorade has worse side-effects), only the perceived kind -- "harmless harm" lol.
 
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futaie

Active Member
@futaie, your speculating as you have no experience in this area. You took psychotropic medication one time. That's not experience in the mental health field. Experience comes from but is not limited to working daily with patients, doctors, family members, ancillary staff. Additionally thereis extended study of illnesses of all natures and medications as well as additional treatments. I have worked both County and State facilities. One services individuals in current crises, and one services chronic/severe mental illness. Working at county mental health seeing individuals brought in daily in crises over the course of 20 years, i can say there is not one documented case of an individual brought in and diagnosed with psychosis due to Marijuana.

I did not say I had experience in the mental health field. I'm just talking about it because from my experience and those of some friends who are sick for years (more than 20 years...), particularly one very good friend often talk to me about psychiatrists, treatment, hospital, etc... and share with me what he lives every day in this environment... (he lives in France too)
So I may see more the dark side of it, but I don't doubt for a second of the devotion and the need of people/professional like you who help people in severe mental pain or crises every day and often save life before destruction or suicide.

And regarding psychosis due to Marijuana, I did say "brief psychotic disorder" due to high dosage, the word (bouffée délirante aigue) was told to me by the doctor to explain what happened to me, so it's not a real psychosis that lasts month, year or a life and must be treated with strong medication.
 
futaie,

herbivore21

Well-Known Member
I need to chime in here and say that as a university educator and researcher in psychology, Jeppy is right. Psychotic symptoms are generally a reference to hearing sounds that aren't there or seeing things that aren't there. I would have replied earlier but I'm really busy preparing summer school for my students lol

I need to highlight that THC is a known psychotomimetic (it can have effects that imitate psychotic symptoms). Paranoia and delusions (which often come from stimuli which weren't actually there but were perceived by the individual) are also symptoms we often look for to diagnose psychosis - because obviously clinicians can't see the things that another person perceives that aren't actually there lol

Guys, please, if you had a bad experience, fair enough and please do share these accounts with us in plain English - but please don't misuse scientific lingo to describe your experiences, as all you do is confuse the situation for the reader ;)

Please only use clinical terminology to refer to a diagnosis from a qualified practitioner or yourself have a tertiary psychology education/understand the meanings of such language within the discipline.

It is also true that CBD has an antipsychotic effect, in fact this has been found to limit/prevent the psychotomimetic properties of THC in the individuals system at the same time. Like others say here, THC can be a problem even for those of us who usually take it with no issues at all when we have too high of a dosage or are not prepared for the effects of the drug (any drug will cause discomfort/negative experience if you are not prepared for it's psychological side effects though!).

@futaie - Brief Psychotic Disorder MUST NOT BE DIAGNOSED (like most psychotic disorders) if the symptoms are the result of consumption of a drug (drug induced psychoses most commonly emerge from amphetamine use). I am not doubting your doctor referred to this illness, but remember that if you doctor is a general practitioner of medicine, they probably don't understand this aspect of the diagnosis of mental disorders.
 
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