Ascent Vaporizer by DaVinci

[KeroZen]

Talk about a chore! No thanks, I'll pass!

 

[max]

I only caught a word here and there @silvercloud358 the rest of the message is blank. I hope if there is something important in between the widely spaced visible words someone with better eyesight will let me know.

I have always depended on the kindness of strangers.

I use FC default-wide, which has a dark background. I can read everyone's posts. If you prefer a light background, highlight the text area with your cursor and the missing text will show.

The other 8 off topic posts on this issue have been removed.

 

[Davinci_vaporizer]

@Davinci_vaporizer

For removing the spacer, I am going to try and using an IC removal/extractor tool.
Very cheap to come by, the local electronic surplus store has them for around a $1.
I'm going to grind and straighten out (slight bend) the ends to accommodate the spacer holes size.
Being able to grasp the spacer using 2 holes might make it easier to extract.
Below is a picture of the tool, and I will report back with the end results:

Yeah I really like this idea. I was suggesting turning out pick into similar tweezers. This would help with the oil jar lids, the oil jars, the spacers and still have the function of a stirring tool. We never really got that far with it though because we think the design of the spacer shouldn't require any extra accessories, but I really do like that idea.

MO since the spacers will not radiate using bottom as DV described

We never claimed that these radiate heat. They retain heat and keep your load packed allowing for more surface area contact with the bowl throughout your session giving you more vapor production on a smaller load. We actually made it quite clear from early on that these are not heat radiators like the glass flowers, they are as the name suggests, spacers. The glass's heat retention is a bonus, but we really only wanted to keep your load packed with a smaller amount so you guys can stop using so much material. When I initially tested the spacer months ago, and I passed it on to another colleague to test I didn't pick up an Ascent again until I had another spacer to use. It was a night and day difference.

I like that you can also use glass flowers with it that way too if you chose to do so as the spacer is just a spacer. It will help retain heat but does not radiate heat through the bowl the same way the flowers do. Any suggestions for an addition that would help radiate heat to these?

We want a way to help radiate heat in the bowl without using glass flowers.

 

[OF]

We want a way to help radiate heat in the bowl without using glass flowers.

Pack a lunch. Radiation is not going to be a significant factor as I understand it. Radiation works on temperature difference like current works on voltage difference or fluid flow on pressure difference. Since the wall is basically the temperature we're driving too, the closer we get (smaller difference in temperatures between load and walls) the slower the heat transfers. Slower and slower as time goes on.

Consider, the only undisputed Radiation vape example we have (I think?), Bender from D9, only makes useful vapor when the hot side is HUGELY hotter (like over 1000 degrees hotter) than the load. "Glowing Red hot'. A few hundred, let alone the odd dozen degrees isn't going to feed the bull dog......it sure doesn't there.

It's a conduction game I think. And a fun one in that all the heat is put in before the hit. There should be alternatives to glass flowers, but their natural advantage in surface area and lack of packing voids are going to be hard to beat I think. I'd like to find a better conductor of heat that would be as accepted as glass.

Fun project.

OF

 

[Davinci_vaporizer]

Pack a lunch. Radiation is not going to be a significant factor as I understand it. Radiation works on temperature difference like current works on voltage difference or fluid flow on pressure difference. Since the wall is basically the temperature we're driving too, the closer we get (smaller difference in temperatures between load and walls) the slower the heat transfers. Slower and slower as time goes on.

Consider, the only undisputed Radiation vape example we have (I think?), Bender from D9, only makes useful vapor when the hot side is HUGELY hotter (like over 1000 degrees hotter) than the load. "Glowing Red hot'. A few hundred, let alone the odd dozen degrees isn't going to feed the bull dog......it sure doesn't there.

It's a conduction game I think. And a fun one in that all the heat is put in before the hit. There should be alternatives to glass flowers, but their natural advantage in surface area and lack of packing voids are going to be hard to beat I think. I'd like to find a better conductor of heat that would be as accepted as glass.

Fun project.

OF

Right so the heat fills in the space where the colder material is, that makes sense. As you said though, the hotter you get the harder and slower that is to do, and this principle applies everywhere, not just the load. The resistance goes up on heating elements the hotter they get so the watts your heater pushes at the beginning of your heat up are significantly higher than the watts your heater pushes when you are moving from say 350-400, right?

So the glass spacer adds hot surface area to the bowl helping to mitigate loss of heat from air flow. We'll call it retention? as well as keeping the load packed in the hottest area of the bowl and giving more hot surface area contact to your load. How do we then transfer this heat through the center of the load. We have a nice thermal mass going with this spacer the question now becomes, what is the most efficient way of dispersing that heat? Maybe radiation was a poor choice of words.

 

[OF]

The resistance goes up on heating elements the hotter they get so the watts your heater pushes at the beginning of your heat up are significantly higher than the watts your heater pushes when you are moving from say 350-400, right?

Generally, yes metals tend to have "positive temperature coefficients", that is as temperature goes up so does their resistance. This cuts the current (but not voltage) side of the power equation. The effect is really pretty small over small changes in temperature. IIRC it's about 30% for Tungsten light bulbs over several thousand degrees. You can, if this is a problem, select metal alloys which don't have this characteristic (or have it to a lesser degree). Not a lot of change in such a fifty degree shift I bet?

More generally 'self regulation' WRT temperature (like soldering irons, MFLB or 'hot wire' concentrate vapes like KISS or Dabbler) are the result of rapidly increasing heat losses more than lowering of heat output.

Since Ascent seems to use PID temperature control, it's very easy to "fix it in Software" if you really want to. That software now throttles power back as you approach the setpoint, a change in that profile compensates for a lot of other sins.

How do we then transfer this heat through the center of the load. We have a nice thermal mass going with this spacer the question now becomes, what is the most efficient way of dispersing that heat? Maybe radiation was a poor choice of words.

It transfers heat by conduction, the only way it can. Put a couple TCs (temperature sensors) in and you can watch this happen as the unit recovers from a hit. A single 'large' block of glass will have a longer time constant, that is it will heat and cool (heating the load in the process) more slowly than the same mass in pieces (more surface area, less thickness to 'heat through'). So the keys to rapid dispersion favor the flower concept (more surface, thinner profile, spread through the load), spacer performance improvements should follow that pattern I think.

A good overall goal is to lower time constants I think. Having to wait for it to recover heat between hits is already an annoyance, making it worse is not an improvement.

When it comes down to 'what's the best shape for a single spacer?' I think we should think about where the reheat heat comes from (since it's the root source of the vaping), the walls. A spacer that blocks the walls can only slow the recovery I'm thinking? If we must, by design, confine the mass to one area I'm thinking having it up the center, preserving as much wall surface as possible to aid reheat might be the best configuration? Make the load sort of a 'squished square doughnut' but full height?

Fun stuff, I'm looking forward to testing your spacer.......still not sure how to do that....... Perhaps the Muse will soon be upon me. Or not.

Fun stuff.

OF

 

[MedicatedPensioner]

When it comes down to 'what's the best shape for a single spacer?' I think we should think about where the reheat heat comes from (since it's the root source of the vaping), the walls. A spacer that blocks the walls can only slow the recovery I'm thinking? If we must, by design, confine the mass to one area I'm thinking having it up the center, preserving as much wall surface as possible to aid reheat might be the best configuration? Make the load sort of a 'squished square doughnut' but full height?

Intuitively this is how I would see it - even better than mixing flowers in the load. The devil would be in the implementation - how to easily pack around a spacer that was in the center. Sounds intractable. But the point about keeping the load against the chamber walls is why it seems placing the spacer bottom (holes) down would be better for very small loads. Wouldn't the glass then press the thin, tiny load against the hot ceramic bottom insuring the best conduction?

 

[Vicki]

Everyone who will be testing these spacers, please let me know how they work, and maybe I'll buy one when they come out in retail.

 

[OF]

But the point about keeping the load against the chamber walls is why it seems placing the spacer bottom (holes) down would be better for very small loads. Wouldn't the glass then press the thin, tiny load against the hot ceramic bottom insuring the best conduction?

I get it, except there's no heater in the bottom of the bowl.....only the walls are heated. What you suggest would I think make it real wispy and dog slow to recover since the only vape action you'd get comes after getting the insert back up to 400F.

For tiny loads I think a spacer (or maybe a couple sizes in a series?) that was thin as possible (avoiding being a heat sink and was basically cone shaped to force maximum contact with the walls would work best for most? Unlike the flowers it wouldn't contribute much I'd think, but it would hinder the show the least?

More testing and better answers coming soon I bet.

OF

 

[MedicatedPensioner]

I get it, except there's no heater in the bottom of the bowl.....only the walls are heated. What you suggest would I think make it real wispy and dog slow to recover since the only vape action you'd get comes after getting the insert back up to 400F.

For tiny loads I think a spacer (or maybe a couple sizes in a series?) that was thin as possible (avoiding being a heat sink and was basically cone shaped to force maximum contact with the walls would work best for most? Unlike the flowers it wouldn't contribute much I'd think, but it would hinder the show the least?

More testing and better answers coming soon I bet.

OF

Darn. I assumed the bottom is heated but thinking it thru I guess with the holes that doesn't make sense. Still seems to work well with oil jars pressing the load down but the heat must be coming in from the sides. I can only imagine how well it would work with the load pressed to the sides. New, pricy accessory: a brass or ceramic cartridge that can be packed on the sides and inserted.

 

[KeroZen]

I think the bottom of the bowl becomes hot enough to conduct heat to vaporize when it's going, even if there's no wire passing there. @OF could you please let your Ascent run empty for one minute and measure the temperature difference between the bare walls and the bare bottom?

I get good vapor with only a very flat material disc covering the bottom and minimal contact with the side walls, as long as the disc perfectly covers the bowl holes (otherwise the vapor/air ratio is screwed and it's wispy)

One thing is sure, you can burn yourself by touching any part of the bowl after use!

 

[turbovap]

The list was submitted and there will be no more spacers shipping out for testing. We have a total of 16 people after we filtered the accounts with 0 activity and the people who submitted the info by the 5:00pm PST Friday April, 3rd deadline. The objective of this is to get some good discussion and information for a new edition of the spacers so we eliminated zero activity accounts. This is a gift to you guys for being so innovative and supportive

PM sent to you on March 27th with email address. no reply, called and was put on a list.
Any idea on wait time ???
Thank you

 

[OF]

I think the bottom of the bowl becomes hot enough to conduct heat to vaporize when it's going, even if there's no wire passing there. @OF could you please let your Ascent run empty for one minute and measure the temperature difference between the bare walls and the bare bottom?

I'm sorry, I have no reliable way to measure the surface temperature, nor do I know of one really that doesn't involve lots of work and equipment I don't have.

I think you're not fully following what is going on. It's not enough that the surface of the floor eventually gets hot as the other areas (which it doesn't really, the area just above the holes never makes full temperature, that much I can measure, since there are heat loses to the air outside the bottom). It has to follow the rules of thermodynamics and supply replacement heat (in calories) to replace the heat 'consumed' in evaporation or the heat (in degrees) falls off and no more vapor production. That is not going to happen at a useful rate across many mm of ceramic and glass (with cold air being drawn through it no less) when it has trouble getting through a fraction of a mm of glazing in the walls in time to help much. That is the temperature of the load against the wall drops dozens of degrees as it is. Adding more 'thermal resistance' (longer path) makes that worse.

You can't think of thermodynamics as a static condition ("dynamics", after all, means change.....) but rather of how the heat (in calories) flows from hot to cold based on the magnitude of the temperature differences and the thermal conduction of the available paths. If you want more conduction (like to make more vapor) and can't use a big temperature difference (like we want to do but can't use) you have to attack via the factors you can control (more thermal mass, more surface area to transfer, etc.).

You have to consider time. When the available heat in the load is used to make vapor, where does the replacement heat come from and how fast can we get it there?

One thing is sure, you can burn yourself by touching any part of the bowl after use!

I'll take your word for it, since my finger is way to big to touch the bottom, nor am I so inclined. Remember a dozen degree drop (or a bit more) can stall vapor production but still give a nasty burn.

OF

 

[KeroZen]

Yes sure, I get what you say. There is the theory and there are empirical results. I get the theory but I also get (at least for me) ample enough vapor with a flat disc as I described, this is what I experience daily. I said it many times, I don't use any glass flowers and I don't have to wait 30 seconds between hits like you say is necessary.

So to me the difference must be that I'm taking very small hits perhaps in comparison with what you guys take. Or that I sip much more slowly and gently, I don't know. But I sip something like 3 seconds max, get good visible vapor exhale everytime even at 172°C, and don't wait more than 10 seconds between hits, sometimes only 5 seconds.

The other difference I can see is that I applied the o-ring leak-fix when most of you guys just use the partial "better mating" fix (with the exception of CK who uses the "above the rim o-ring fix" + wong/gong)

So I don't know, maybe I'm fine with little vapor when you guys are after bigger clouds. But having quite some other portables to compare with now, I'm confident to say that the hits I get with the Ascent are absolutely not shabby... and the vapor "quality" is top notch.

 

[OF]

I get the theory but I also get (at least for me) ample enough vapor with a flat disc as I described, this is what I experience daily. I

So to me the difference must be that I'm taking very small hits perhaps in comparison with what you guys take. Or that I sip much more slowly and gently, I don't know.

With you there for sure. The personal metric is the only one that counts.

I think you've put your finger right on it, guys have vastly different techniques, tolerance, desires and so on. We're judging performance without a common standard. Fun, but not all that interchangeable.

Sippers (often MMJ cases) on one end and cloud chasers on the other. What pleases one can be 'not enough' or 'not useful' to the next guy. FWIW, I too am on the wimp end....yes, I'm a sipper too. Although I'd like a bit more vapor/faster recovery than comes out of the box as a regular thing.

OF

 

[kgb33]

Just finished a session with my ascent. I feel like should have another. Lol I think I'm using this thing wrong. I'm a long time toker but vaping is new to me and the only thing I have to compare it to is the og Davinci. Was I expecting too much thinking I would charge it load it it and get ripped?
Maybe vaping just isn't for me .
Not feeling anything bad for Davinci or my local dealer as I do think it's me. Sometimes it blows me away and others it's just meh.

 

[OF]

Was I expecting too much thinking I would charge it load it it and get ripped?
Maybe vaping just isn't for me .

Vaping is probably not for everyone, but IMO it should do well at it's intended purpose (allowing you to get the benefit of the herb without the toxic smoke).

However, you have to give it a change. In a funny 'mind trick' sort of way you long ago associated sucking smoke into your lungs (nasty by any honest measure) with getting stoned (generally a very desirable thing). The two get linked so well that your mind doesn't accept one without the other.

You need to break that mental link or your brain will continue to tell you 'something's missing'. That means no blazing of any kind at any level for a while. As a guess I'd say a week on average? A few days for some, two weeks for others?

You'll know when it happens. Once your brain understands you don't really need to stick your face in the campfire to get off you won't crave it any more. In fact, smoking will go back to being just as revolting as it was years back when you first tried it........remember how gross that was? Still is......

Lay off any blazing for a while and see what happens. We all did, and never looked back.

And you get to save lots of money live longer to enjoy it, how cool is that?

OF

 

[Davinci_vaporizer]

PM sent to you on March 27th with email address. no reply, called and was put on a list.
Any idea on wait time ???
Thank you

The objective of this is to get some good discussion and information for a new edition of the spacers so we eliminated zero activity accounts. This is a gift to you guys for being so innovative and supportive throughout it all!

Your account had zero activity and was created to day you messaged us. You are not the only account. There were several accounts to message us asking for spacers created that day with zero activity. It even says in your signature that your "Devinci" Ascent is for sale...

 

[kgb33]

Definitely not giving up but am going through a lot of product trying to get my technique down. Had a birthday joint with a friend the other day. Other than that it's been just my Ascent. Herb is coming out very nicely and evenly toasted which again leads me to believe it's something I am or am not doing.
Last session I sped up my draw a and it worked quite a bit better for me. Might be on to something. Will definitely be trying a spacer when they do go to market.

 

[hoptimum]

Definitely not giving up but am going through a lot of product trying to get my technique down. Had a birthday joint with a friend the other day. Other than that it's been just my Ascent. Herb is coming out very nicely and evenly toasted which again leads me to believe it's something I am or am not doing.
Last session I sped up my draw a and it worked quite a bit better for me. Might be on to something. Will definitely be trying a spacer when they do go to market.

IME, vaporizing effectively and efficiently demands more of the user than smoking, where you just ignite and suck. Every vaporizer has a slightly different signature that you need to adapt to: some you sip, some you rip. the Ascent is more of a sipper than a ripper, IMO. Its harder when youre new to vaporizing because youre not accustomed to the subtle cues, like tasting the vapor on the tip of youre tongue to assess how much vapor youre getting and how cooked the herb tastes. Its not for everyone, and some people can "get" certain vaporizers and not others. Any good vape will get you just as medicated as smoking the same amount of herb, however, probably more if you do it right.

 

[OF]

Definitely not giving up but am going through a lot of product trying to get my technique down. Had a birthday joint with a friend the other day. Other than that it's been just my Ascent.

Cool. Glad you're dedicated to getting on board. Remember, a single backsliding to blazing resets the clock. Worse still it sets up a 'just wait, you'll get smoke again' deal internally. Strangely, 'only once every week or two' is a worst case. That could go on forever.......

If you're removing the THC from the load and sucking it in you've removed the THC and sucked it in. You really can't ask much more? The only missing element might be concentration?

Have you tried the glass flowers? What happened?

TIA

OF

 

[kgb33]

I have been putting the metal screen to cover the holes then two flowers stem up. Pack herb on that then two more flowers stem down in the herb.

I definitely felt my last session lol went straight to my head!

Thanks for all the help and support. It really makes a difference!

 

[OF]

I definitely felt my last session lol went straight to my head!

Thanks for all the help and support. It really makes a difference!

GREAT! A decided improvement. Better is good. Follow that path, repeat techniques that give the results you like, experiment a bit for even better. You know the drill.

Lay off the blazing, without exception for a few weeks then try smoke again.......bet you find it disgusting. And your weed bill will be a fraction of what it is blazing since you're not foolishly burning up your THC in some ill conceived fire ritual. On average I'd say guys use 1/3 to 1/4 their former level?

Well done, perseverance pays off.

OF

 

[virtualpurple]

I have been putting the metal screen to cover the holes then two flowers stem up. Pack herb on that then two more flowers stem down in the herb.

I definitely felt my last session lol went straight to my head!

Thanks for all the help and support. It really makes a difference!

I also had been regularly placing a screen in the bottom. I now use a convection screen from the Haze vaporizer trimmed down to the size of the bottom bowl (it wedges into the bottom nice and secure, never falls out). I also will sometimes top with a cotton wick pad (others use hemp fiber) on top.

If you want some good rips with the Ascent pair it with a water tool. There are some great pieces in the cheap glass thread. I have a F-bomb and a D020, and I feel like they really help unlock the potential of the Ascent.

Welcome to the club and I wish you the best in fucking combustion.

 

[kgb33]

I also had been regularly placing a screen in the bottom. I now use a convection screen from the Haze vaporizer trimmed down to the size of the bottom bowl (it wedges into the bottom nice and secure, never falls out). I also will sometimes top with a cotton wick pad (others use hemp fiber) on top.

If you want some good rips with the Ascent pair it with a water tool. There are some great pieces in the cheap glass thread. I have a F-bomb and a D020, and I feel like they really help unlock the potential of the Ascent.

Welcome to the club and I wish you the best in fucking combustion.

Thanks! Swear I was just thinking water tool!! I don't know anything about glass but if it unlocks more potential meaning less consumption am all for it!