How would you compare Ascent and Pax? Anyone here who has both, is a comparison video possible?
Ascent Vaporizer by DaVinci
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How would you compare Ascent and Pax? Anyone here who has both, is a comparison video possible?
Herbal Ant
Well-Known Member
I just had an idea thanks to Dreamerr, you guys said it is light wispy vapor for the oils right? Try the oil while it's plugged in please, I believe you will have a much better outcome. Same problem with the VB 2.0 and oil...
max
Out to lunch
Why? Because the bowl is enclosed? Because vaporization can take place when you're not taking a hit? That's the way it is with most portables, including the DV. I've been using that model since it hit the market, and it's very much a convection vape IMO. When I hit it the majority of the vapor I get is from convection. It's going to be the same case with the Ascent. You certainly wouldn't be going in the direction of less efficiency.toros23 said:
WakeAndVape
VapeLife X
Herbal Ant
Well-Known Member
WakeAndVape
VapeLife X
I just might need to...lmao. too bad it wont be with the ascentYou quoted the wrong post, you need to Wake some more.
Kaellan420swe
New Member
Omg this waiting time ...
I only spent like 1 1/2 month on waiting to buy this ascent...
I only spent like 1 1/2 month on waiting to buy this ascent...
OF
Well-Known Member
I think conduction/convection is determined by the construction of the unit. In some cases, like HA or TV products, it's clearly 'pure convection' as the air is heated in another location and drawn into the load where it only cools down. Likewise VG and Lotus (but not Vapman). Others, like VB2 (and it would seem Ascent?) have a chamber that is heated to working temperature and then room temperature air is drawn in to the load to sweep the vapor away. No preheating of the air. That, I think, is the determining factor. If the work is done by preheated air, it's convection. If it's from being in an oven, it's conduction?
Once the vapor is formed, I think it's impossible to determine for sure the process. Taste might be a clue, but some conduction vapes can taste very good when clean?
As far as efficiency is concerned, conduction will always have the advantage I think? Real convection vapes 'waste' a lot of power....it's in their design.
Six weeks? Chump change. Won't get you an Honorable Mention, let alone a seat in the semi finals.
Waiting's a bummer for sure, but what are the other options? Have some faith, time will tell..... DV, I think, learned some important stuff with their last offering, they want it right very much.
OF
max
Out to lunch
My HA's 'bowl' is pretty hot-definitely not pure convection. There's enough conduction to fully cook the herb if I load it and forget to add a bag and turn on the pump. But since the intent is to have hot air flow through the bowl contents, I do consider it a convection vape.OF said:
I well remember the dome/hot plate vapes, where all you can do is wait for the vapor to cook off the hot metal. Since a different definition seems to be popular these days, I'm not going to argue my version, although I'll always consider any vape that provides hot air flow through the herb to be mostly convection.
toros23
Well-Known Member
I think that is a good definition and I know that you know the difference. When I first saw the Ascent I assumed there was a heating source somewhere under the holes in the bowl but that is not the case. From what the reviewers have told us, it looks like all the heat is coming from the walls of the bowl and room temp air drawn in is from below the outer grill. I assume there is some convection and radiant heating going on but figured it was mostly conduction based on previous definitions from past vapes. I don't think it really matters if the device is effective but definitely interested to hear your thoughts, especially in relation to the oil cans being glass..
max
Out to lunch
If the bowl/herb chamber itself is providing the heat, then I can see a strong case for labeling it conduction. I assumed it would be a similar design to the DV, and I've considered that to be convection since it fully cooks the bowl contents every time. The ABV is always consistently uniform in color, and the herb certainly doesn't all come into direct contact with the hot metal. I never stir, no matter how packed the bowl is, and a fully cooked bowl without stirring and having to bring all the herb in contact with the bowl, ala MFLB or hot plate vape, is just convection to me, although with a small enclosed bowl, radiant heat could be more of a factor than I've been giving it credit for.
OF
Well-Known Member
Fun stuff. I look at it all in terms of 'how is the work being done?'. How does the heat (energy) get to the right place to make all that lovely vapor. All vapes will show some conduction, convection and radiation modes I think, but it's reasonable to put them in classes based on the major mode. In the end, it's just calories, it doesn't have a color or anything special about it, where it came from and how it got here is not a factor.....only how much (and how fast).
The problem with making vapor from concentrates in the cans is easy to see and hard to fix. We need heat (calories) to get in to make the stuff (oil) inside hot (degrees) enough to make vapor. About 400F. Any more heat (calories) we can put in past that point makes more vapor, the oil doesn't get hotter.....just the rate at which it converts to vapor increases. All within reason, of course. Whatever reason is.
Glass is a lousy conductor of heat. The number of calories per minute 'leaking' though a given size piece of it will be small unless it's very much hotter on the outside (the rate being dependent on the differences in temperatures (in degrees) and a 'thermal resistance' factor for the material). And in the Accent we're limited to not very much above 400F available. The rate will be very slow under the best conditions compared to not having the glass.
First way out, go to say aluminum, is probably out. Best option I can see is to try to improve the thermal contact (lower the resistance) from the oven to the walls of the tank. Counting on air (which has very little 'thermal mass' really) is not effective. And sucking cold air through the grill to replace the warm air from the walls seems dumb somehow..... Not many calories can get past that bottleneck. How about some peanut oil between the jar and the oven wall? Maybe in a pad of cotton cloth? Something you'd wrap around the tank side walls (maybe leaving a small gap).......
And don't load a lot in there? Putting more than you need for the session has many disadvantages, not the least of which is slowing production. The more grams of extra extract in there the more calories will be 'used up' getting it to the magic temperature and never make vapor. We want vapor instead?
OF
The problem with making vapor from concentrates in the cans is easy to see and hard to fix. We need heat (calories) to get in to make the stuff (oil) inside hot (degrees) enough to make vapor. About 400F. Any more heat (calories) we can put in past that point makes more vapor, the oil doesn't get hotter.....just the rate at which it converts to vapor increases. All within reason, of course. Whatever reason is.
Glass is a lousy conductor of heat. The number of calories per minute 'leaking' though a given size piece of it will be small unless it's very much hotter on the outside (the rate being dependent on the differences in temperatures (in degrees) and a 'thermal resistance' factor for the material). And in the Accent we're limited to not very much above 400F available. The rate will be very slow under the best conditions compared to not having the glass.
First way out, go to say aluminum, is probably out. Best option I can see is to try to improve the thermal contact (lower the resistance) from the oven to the walls of the tank. Counting on air (which has very little 'thermal mass' really) is not effective. And sucking cold air through the grill to replace the warm air from the walls seems dumb somehow..... Not many calories can get past that bottleneck. How about some peanut oil between the jar and the oven wall? Maybe in a pad of cotton cloth? Something you'd wrap around the tank side walls (maybe leaving a small gap).......
And don't load a lot in there? Putting more than you need for the session has many disadvantages, not the least of which is slowing production. The more grams of extra extract in there the more calories will be 'used up' getting it to the magic temperature and never make vapor. We want vapor instead?
OF
Zorbak
Active Member
I have a technical question I'm hoping some helpful person on here might be able to answer for me. I'm one of those unfortunate rare people who has a hyper-sensitivity to both smoke and unfiltered vapor. I get terribly congested and my face swells up like a balloon if I smoke, or even if I vaporize, believe it or not. One hit of smoke makes me congested and miserable for several days.
I've found that if I fit a 9mm charcoal pipe filter into the mouthpiece of my "extreme q" vaporizer, I get all the benefits of the vapor, and don't suffer with terrible congestion.
The glass mouthpiece of the Ascent looks like it might be just the right size to fit one of these 9mm charcoal pipe filters into, and if so, it would make me one of the happiest people on earth! Unfortunately, I don't have an ascent to test it out on, and I don't want to purchase one if the filter won't fit, since I wouldn't be able to use it. Is there somebody who could test this out for me? These filters can be found at any cigarette shop, and cost about 20 cents apiece. Thanks very much to anyone who can help me figure this out!!!
I've found that if I fit a 9mm charcoal pipe filter into the mouthpiece of my "extreme q" vaporizer, I get all the benefits of the vapor, and don't suffer with terrible congestion.
The glass mouthpiece of the Ascent looks like it might be just the right size to fit one of these 9mm charcoal pipe filters into, and if so, it would make me one of the happiest people on earth! Unfortunately, I don't have an ascent to test it out on, and I don't want to purchase one if the filter won't fit, since I wouldn't be able to use it. Is there somebody who could test this out for me? These filters can be found at any cigarette shop, and cost about 20 cents apiece. Thanks very much to anyone who can help me figure this out!!!
Dreamerr
Always in a state of confusion and silliness♀
HMCS.AVENGER
Member
at what cost ? that means that we'll have to wait an extra month or two !Davinci replied to my inquiry about the texture variance in pictures with the croc skin finish. In response, DV says they settled on the raised, rounded texture, solely! Now this to me speaks of a company who has their discerning eye on the ball with regard to quality of style, and of course function. I did notice that a show of concern for one texture over another was completely non-present here on FC, aside from my own. Before my own awareness of a difference, DV felt there was a choice that had to be made, and I think they made the right one.
NO!!! Apparently, DV's decision to go with the glossy raised round texture was finalized some time ago. I have no indication that any delay is due to croc skin design.
HMCS.AVENGER
Member
ppppppppppfffffffffftttttttttttttt ! that's a relief !!! I do hope dv is expecting to release it before chrismas !!!
Medical Mark
Well-Known Member
I didn't t think the glass would be a good conductor of heat for the oil cans, but they look nice.lol
I think copper and silver conduct heat best silver 429w/km and copper 401w/mk maybe they should have made a small silver can for oil, it would heat up fast and conduct the heat intern releasing the vapor from the oil.
It would look nice, shiny,lol
Anyway it doesn't matter they made the oil cans from glass because they were testing essential ils that are thinner and need a lower temp to vaporize.
It will all work out, oils will be used and will produce vapor even if its wispy it will medicate .
Medical mark
I think copper and silver conduct heat best silver 429w/km and copper 401w/mk maybe they should have made a small silver can for oil, it would heat up fast and conduct the heat intern releasing the vapor from the oil.
It would look nice, shiny,lol
Anyway it doesn't matter they made the oil cans from glass because they were testing essential ils that are thinner and need a lower temp to vaporize.
It will all work out, oils will be used and will produce vapor even if its wispy it will medicate .
Medical mark
theCerberus
Well-Known Member
Glass is a fine conductor of heat (edit: maybe not the best but it will work), there are even glass pots and pans, commonly known by the brand name pyrex.
There's a reason the solo and sub use stainless steel, and its because it is the safest metal (its used surgically too because of this).
Heated copper is unsafe to inhale.
Copper can cause metal fume fever. Also, copper oxidizes VERY easily, which can release harmful chemicals.
Leave the engineering to the experts at DV.
Medical Mark
Well-Known Member
Just pointing out the difference in heat conduction with metals I wouldn't use them but they conduct.
Well I'm sure the engineers know there stuff but were they loading the glass jars during testing with some nice thick honey oil and thinking of the medical user.? I doubt it.
In the lab everything looks good on paper, put it in the hands of a serious medical patient that uses it for his health daily and its a different story.
It was just a observation, I'm ok with glass. I'm more int the ascent for the dry herb capabilities but also endulg e in some honey too.
I have other units that can effectively take care of my oil consumption needs, so I don't have to fiddle with units that can't do the job effectively like other units can.
Just a thought.
Well I'm sure the engineers know there stuff but were they loading the glass jars during testing with some nice thick honey oil and thinking of the medical user.? I doubt it.
In the lab everything looks good on paper, put it in the hands of a serious medical patient that uses it for his health daily and its a different story.
It was just a observation, I'm ok with glass. I'm more int the ascent for the dry herb capabilities but also endulg e in some honey too.
I have other units that can effectively take care of my oil consumption needs, so I don't have to fiddle with units that can't do the job effectively like other units can.
Just a thought.
toros23
Well-Known Member
OF
Well-Known Member
No, glass is a lousy conductor of heat, practical metals are a hundred or more times better (one of the reasons it's used as insulation.....):
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-d_429.html
Real men know bottled beer cools slower and stays cool longer than cans (even with their coatings). Long necks are more than a style statement.
Pyrex and window glass are close enough to ignore the difference at this level.
SS, it turns out is also a poor choice (for a metal), it's not so great either. In general, materials that conduct electricity well also conduct heat well (for similar reasons usually).
The hot copper issue is also off I think. We're not talking about smelting zinc here. We're talking about warm copper, not even really hot, if we're talking vaping temperatures. The common use of copper in premium cookware is a clue here I think?
The container is glass by decree. All we can do is go for thin walls, lots of surface and best contact possible.
I also disagree with the last part, the science and engineering aren't all that hard to deal with if we can get it right. And for sure there's nothing sacred about this (or any other) design. IMO it's fair fodder for discussion......clearly more so useful than cracks about how late delivery of Ascent is?
OF
theCerberus
Well-Known Member
Let me make it clear, I wasnt saying glass is the absolute best conductor, by saying "fine", all i mean is it will work, you can make pots and pans and cook/boil with glass, so in this application of vaping, it will work fine.
I dont think the glass is the problem.
OF
Well-Known Member
Not the only issue, but IMO it's the major one. Improving the heat transfer through that wall will immediately and proportionally increase production.
For instance, do the metal cans from the original DV have such serious problems?
The numbers are real. Switching the wall from Pyrex to say Aluminum will increase the transfer rate 200 times, even cast iron would be 50 times better. Thermodynamics is real. Heat does flow from hot to cold by finite rules....which we can understand and use to our advantage sometimes.
Wrap some wax up in a little Aluminum foil, punch a pin hole or two and see what happens? Or hold a bottle and a tea spoon a few inches back and run your torch on the other end.....see which you decide to put down first?
OF