Arizer Solo II

[biohacker]

I broke 2 ht's at the same time plus 2 bubblers and 4 solo stems. Shit ads up!!

Only 4 solo stems? I bet @ataxian has broken 40! That sucks about 2 HT's at the same time man!!!! Stinger, but I still have you beat with several bongs, adapters, and Arizer glass pieces whether stems or EQ bowls! I've even broken the same Weedstar bong twice (once after repair), and then busted the replacement I bought for it. Now they don't make it anymore! Yes, the wife isn't amused! But at least she has developed an affinity for my cheap china glass lol.

You're far too modest here. I hear it's true you get fan mail from young vapists eager to be 'just like Ataxian'. And who can blame them?

Modest? He can afford it! You do realize he has a sick pad with amazing garden and lives in Cali? But alot of his life was spent in hawaii? I think his full time job was surfing and smoking doobies?

You must have missed that episode of Cribs that he was on. Nice job Ataxi!

 

[kellya86]

Iv been loving my solo so much lately, I'm bringing it to america when I come soon...
Slightly worried It may be taken from me for some reason....???
It will be clean...

Anyway if it does, will I be able to walk into a shop somewhere over there, and just buy a solo2..???
I'll be landing in Chicago and travelling through Iowa, Nebraska and Colorado...

 

[biohacker]

Iv been loving my solo so much lately

No combustion notes like the VapCap?

 

[turk]

....still digging the 2...find it works best if you wait...about 30 sec ...after it reaches temp...makes 1st draw...more pleasing.....really good battery life...

 

[ataxian]

Only 4 solo stems? I bet @ataxian has broken 40! That sucks about 2 HT's at the same time man!!!! Stinger, but I still have you beat with several bongs, adapters, and Arizer glass pieces whether stems or EQ bowls! I've even broken the same Weedstar bong twice (once after repair), and then busted the replacement I bought for it. Now they don't make it anymore! Yes, the wife isn't amused! But at least she has developed an affinity for my cheap china glass lol.



Modest? He can afford it! You do realize he has a sick pad with amazing garden and lives in Cali? But alot of his life was spent in hawaii? I think his full time job was surfing and smoking doobies?

You must have missed that episode of Cribs that he was on. Nice job Ataxi!

40 GonG's broken shattered & unusable.
A device with non-breakable GonG's?
Or no GonG at all?

All my stem's are broke?
I would get more vaporizers however it would cost to much in accessories?

I need to go to a machine shop and have unbreakable part's made!

Living on a island doesn't help?

 

[CarolKing]

@kellya86 You can buy Solos from brick and mortar stores but you will pay more. Especially in CO it should be essy to find one. Not sure how soon the Solo II will be at the stores.

 

[debaserrrrr]

Iv been loving my solo so much lately, I'm bringing it to america when I come soon...
Slightly worried It may be taken from me for some reason....???
It will be clean...

Anyway if it does, will I be able to walk into a shop somewhere over there, and just buy a solo2..???
I'll be landing in Chicago and travelling through Iowa, Nebraska and Colorado...

If it's clean and packed away you should be good.

By the time you hit CO there should be some medical supply stores =D

 

[OF]

....still digging the 2...find it works best if you wait...about 30 sec ...after it reaches temp...makes 1st draw...more pleasing.....really good battery life...

Yep, that (time delay) is solid evidence of conduction. Convection doesn't have this delay, right? Bung an cold load in a real convection vape and you get instant results (or very nearly so). I actually think best production from cold is a bit longer than half a minute.....but I don't usually dwell on that part, I got for those 'thin but tasty' hits as soon as they're available.

It takes time to move heat (in calories, not degrees) around. You can hold a teaspoon in the flame of the kitchen stove (by the handle) for a long time as the heat slowly conducts up the metal? That's because conduction means the energy is transferred from hot to cold, atom by atom, through the material. And since such energy 'goes both ways' it's the net effect that makes a net move from hotter to colder. The bigger that difference, the faster that rate. At equilibrium the load and walls are the same temperature (each heating the other as much as it's heated) and the source is the same temperature as the load.

Same rules apply to convection, of course, only here there's a medium to aid the transfer of heat like the liquid cooling system in your car. It too is convection, this time forced convection (there's a pump). For a vape (or any device) to heat by convection we still need a temperature difference. And we need that difference between the source of heat and the air being heated as well. Time is in play there too. The heated air has to be hotter than the load and what's heating the air hotter still? Real convection vapes are much hotter at the source than the 390F of the Solo cup. Way hotter. The designed of T1 and Cera told me he believes the thermal core in his vapes are running 1300 to 1500F, a long way from the target load temperature. Has to be that way for physics to work. VG uses much more, 1300C to start with. I'm not sure about Volcano but I can assure you that if the output air is 390F the source is many hundreds of degrees hotter so it can heat the air hot enough on it's brief journey past hot metal. And if you want to load to stay at 390F and still make vapor for the hit (not cool off) you have to add that 'extra heat' (to evaporate) by the continued addition of more heated air that is hotter than 390F by a fair bit. It just won't work unless the heater is hotter because there will be no energy transfer to make vapor.

So the laws of Physics say it can't be convection at the same temperature of source and load if real work (making vapor, which takes additional calories) is being done. Making vapor is the same thing as heating the load more at that level. And the observation that a cold stem doesn't make vapor until 'heat soak' (conduction right, no airflow?) brings the temperature up over time is proof I think.

OTOH, Shakespeare said it long ago, "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet"? Sweet vapor is sweet vapor no mater the method it's made with. The name really doesn't matter, but I think we have something of an obligation to keep the facts straight. If we want to label it convection we should have something to back that up I think. We owe it to each other to try to keep information here accurate and reliable?

The Laws of Thermodynamics can't really be ignored like some of our domestic ones are from time to time. Even by sales types trying to exploit the idea that convection is superior to conduction? At least that's what they taught me all those years ago......

OF

 

[turk]

Yep, that (time delay) is solid evidence of conduction. Convection doesn't have this delay, right? Bung an cold load in a real convection vape and you get instant results (or very nearly so). I actually think best production from cold is a bit longer than half a minute.....but I don't usually dwell on that part, I got for those 'thin but tasty' hits as soon as they're available.

It takes time to move heat (in calories, not degrees) around. You can hold a teaspoon in the flame of the kitchen stove (by the handle) for a long time as the heat slowly conducts up the metal? That's because conduction means the energy is transferred from hot to cold, atom by atom, through the material. And since such energy 'goes both ways' it's the net effect that makes a net move from hotter to colder. The bigger that difference, the faster that rate. At equilibrium the load and walls are the same temperature (each heating the other as much as it's heated) and the source is the same temperature as the load.

Same rules apply to convection, of course, only here there's a medium to aid the transfer of heat like the liquid cooling system in your car. It too is convection, this time forced convection (there's a pump). For a vape (or any device) to heat by convection we still need a temperature difference. And we need that difference between the source of heat and the air being heated as well. Time is in play there too. The heated air has to be hotter than the load and what's heating the air hotter still? Real convection vapes are much hotter at the source than the 390F of the Solo cup. Way hotter. The designed of T1 and Cera told me he believes the thermal core in his vapes are running 1300 to 1500F, a long way from the target load temperature. Has to be that way for physics to work. VG uses much more, 1300C to start with. I'm not sure about Volcano but I can assure you that if the output air is 390F the source is many hundreds of degrees hotter so it can heat the air hot enough on it's brief journey past hot metal. And if you want to load to stay at 390F and still make vapor for the hit (not cool off) you have to add that 'extra heat' (to evaporate) by the continued addition of more heated air that is hotter than 390F by a fair bit. It just won't work unless the heater is hotter because there will be no energy transfer to make vapor.

So the laws of Physics say it can't be convection at the same temperature of source and load if real work (making vapor, which takes additional calories) is being done. Making vapor is the same thing as heating the load more at that level. And the observation that a cold stem doesn't make vapor until 'heat soak' (conduction right, no airflow?) brings the temperature up over time is proof I think.

OTOH, Shakespeare said it long ago, "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet"? Sweet vapor is sweet vapor no mater the method it's made with. The name really doesn't matter, but I think we have something of an obligation to keep the facts straight. If we want to label it convection we should have something to back that up I think. We owe it to each other to try to keep information here accurate and reliable?

The Laws of Thermodynamics can't really be ignored like some of our domestic ones are from time to time. Even by sales types trying to exploit the idea that convection is superior to conduction? At least that's what they taught me all those years ago......

OF

.....very nicely done !

 

[WakeAndVape]

little teaser vid. review vid to follow with features...cmon...i gotta got to work!

2 hit killa!!

You are a VAS enabler...that was niiiice.

I...must...have...

 

[Custom Flower Hardware]

You are a VAS enabler...that was niiiice.

I...must...have...

Way better airflow. The intake is right here under the bowl on the back side...

Features...

 

[Custom Flower Hardware]

Yep, that (time delay) is solid evidence of conduction. Convection doesn't have this delay, right? Bung an cold load in a real convection vape and you get instant results (or very nearly so). I actually think best production from cold is a bit longer than half a minute.....but I don't usually dwell on that part, I got for those 'thin but tasty' hits as soon as they're available.

It takes time to move heat (in calories, not degrees) around. You can hold a teaspoon in the flame of the kitchen stove (by the handle) for a long time as the heat slowly conducts up the metal? That's because conduction means the energy is transferred from hot to cold, atom by atom, through the material. And since such energy 'goes both ways' it's the net effect that makes a net move from hotter to colder. The bigger that difference, the faster that rate. At equilibrium the load and walls are the same temperature (each heating the other as much as it's heated) and the source is the same temperature as the load.

Same rules apply to convection, of course, only here there's a medium to aid the transfer of heat like the liquid cooling system in your car. It too is convection, this time forced convection (there's a pump). For a vape (or any device) to heat by convection we still need a temperature difference. And we need that difference between the source of heat and the air being heated as well. Time is in play there too. The heated air has to be hotter than the load and what's heating the air hotter still? Real convection vapes are much hotter at the source than the 390F of the Solo cup. Way hotter. The designed of T1 and Cera told me he believes the thermal core in his vapes are running 1300 to 1500F, a long way from the target load temperature. Has to be that way for physics to work. VG uses much more, 1300C to start with. I'm not sure about Volcano but I can assure you that if the output air is 390F the source is many hundreds of degrees hotter so it can heat the air hot enough on it's brief journey past hot metal. And if you want to load to stay at 390F and still make vapor for the hit (not cool off) you have to add that 'extra heat' (to evaporate) by the continued addition of more heated air that is hotter than 390F by a fair bit. It just won't work unless the heater is hotter because there will be no energy transfer to make vapor.

So the laws of Physics say it can't be convection at the same temperature of source and load if real work (making vapor, which takes additional calories) is being done. Making vapor is the same thing as heating the load more at that level. And the observation that a cold stem doesn't make vapor until 'heat soak' (conduction right, no airflow?) brings the temperature up over time is proof I think.

OTOH, Shakespeare said it long ago, "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet"? Sweet vapor is sweet vapor no mater the method it's made with. The name really doesn't matter, but I think we have something of an obligation to keep the facts straight. If we want to label it convection we should have something to back that up I think. We owe it to each other to try to keep information here accurate and reliable?

The Laws of Thermodynamics can't really be ignored like some of our domestic ones are from time to time. Even by sales types trying to exploit the idea that convection is superior to conduction? At least that's what they taught me all those years ago......

OF

im gonna go out on a limb here and say it can be used as both. It hits 428 in less then 30 sec. The first draw right away is tasty and wispy. The second is grasshopper like, slowly climbs to vapor production then when you hork on it, more vapor produced. The abv comes out light brown er then say my vid when I let it soak for 4 min. (dark brown) They accomplish this by a more wide open air intake. Whereas you can regulate your convection/conduction session. Convection/get it full heat hit it quick. Conduction/chill buddddddyyyy and let it flow.

Edit:
Check out the battery meter after a full charge 7 bowls in! WOW!

 

[gama]

Just signed up. Here is my 2 penny input. I find that if I draw really hard for a few seconds after inserting stem in unit that is up to temp, and then go to normal draw, Wham Bam! Shortens the wait time. Seems like convection is at work here. I still think it is a hybrid though. Love this forum.
I ordered from Jack on 18th and he gave me best deal on the 20th. Can't wait for delivery. I already have original Solo and Air and the desktop one with remote, plus many more I will name later. Gotta go, wife calling. )

 

[OF]

im gonna go out on a limb here and say it can be used as both.

Everybody gets an opinion, but mine is this doesn't square with the rules. The temperatures are just wrong. The cup is the hottest thing in the system and it's 'barely hot enough' to make vapor in temperature. But heat (in calories) needs to flow, that has to be from hot to cold no matter. This means everything else (including heated air) is lower than that temperature.

That's why you need a 'heat soak' between hits for best results.

To supply heat (energy, in calories) for the load to consume the air has to be hotter than the load, to be practical it has to be a lot hotter, and that means a source even hotter to heat the air.....and that we just don't have.

You cannot stand in a bucket and lift yourself by the handle no matter how attractive the idea.

We should enjoy our vapes and not get too hung up in terms I think. But if we insist on doing so (and I get that some guys will no matter what......) we don't get to redefine established scientific terms to suit our whims. Convection and especially radiation calls for a big 'delta T' (temperature difference) to do work (move heat into the load to make vapor). In Thermodynamics it's 'follow the heat (flow)' sort of like in Watergate it's 'follow the money'? After all, Thermodynamics is the study of heat flow (the 'dynamics' part)......

OF

 

[Stu]

The cup is the hottest thing in the system

No. The heater is.

To supply heat (energy, in calories) for the load to consume the air has to be hotter than the load, to be practical it has to be a lot hotter, and that means a source even hotter to heat the air.....and that we just don't have.

You won't be surprised to find out that I disagree.

I had the same fundamental understanding of the Solo as @OF at one time. Then I tested that theory with an experiment that is easily repeatable and the results changed my mind. When evidence suggests that my assumption was incorrect, I don't ignore that evidence in order to maintain my (false) assumption. I accept what the evidence provided and change my opinion. But hey, that's just me.

 

[Andreaerdna]

Everybody gets an opinion, but mine is this doesn't square with the rules. The temperatures are just wrong. The cup is the hottest thing in the system and it's 'barely hot enough' to make vapor in temperature. But heat (in calories) needs to flow, that has to be from hot to cold no matter. This means everything else (including heated air) is lower than that temperature.

That's why you need a 'heat soak' between hits for best results.

To supply heat (energy, in calories) for the load to consume the air has to be hotter than the load, to be practical it has to be a lot hotter, and that means a source even hotter to heat the air.....and that we just don't have.

You cannot stand in a bucket and lift yourself by the handle no matter how attractive the idea.

We should enjoy our vapes and not get too hung up in terms I think. But if we insist on doing so (and I get that some guys will no matter what......) we don't get to redefine established scientific terms to suit our whims. Convection and especially radiation calls for a big 'delta T' (temperature difference) to do work (move heat into the load to make vapor). In Thermodynamics it's 'follow the heat (flow)' sort of like in Watergate it's 'follow the money'? After all, Thermodynamics is the study of heat flow (the 'dynamics' part)......

OF

I am not engaging too far in this discussion (@OF we know we agree we disagree) but try yourself an experiment: 1/3 of a load tamped down onto the glass screen so you have a flat 2millimetres of suspended load (far from hot metal oven), set on 7, wait heat soak, and hit. You will be surprised to find a browner spot in the middle meaning more hot air than hot surfaces, even if hot spot isn't not nearly as evident as a 100% convective vape, much more uniform abv

Also, it has been told many times: solo has the heat exchanger close to the bowl but not in direct contact, so metal bowl get heated by radiation while waiting you to hit (beyond desired vaping temperature / that is why it is sayd to tamp load: to not be in direct contact with bowl) and convection when hitting.
When you hit you cool down the heater but heat up everything else, let times to heater to slowly recover its temperature and you are good to go.

I repeat, do the tiny tamped bowl test and then explain us why the abv touching the glass stem (only possible conduction way) is lighter than the middle (where hot air flows).

Edit: @Stu just see your test, much more professional and leaves no doubt to any reasonable person

 

[BigJr48]

im gonna go out on a limb here and say it can be used as both. It hits 428 in less then 30 sec. The first draw right away is tasty and wispy. The second is grasshopper like, slowly climbs to vapor production then when you hork on it, more vapor produced. The abv comes out light brown er then say my vid when I let it soak for 4 min. (dark brown) They accomplish this by a more wide open air intake. Whereas you can regulate your convection/conduction session. Convection/get it full heat hit it quick. Conduction/chill buddddddyyyy and let it flow.

Edit:
Check out the battery meter after a full charge 7 bowls in! WOW!

That Purple Haze Blue looks beautiful!!! Anxiously awaiting delivery!!!

 

[Custom Flower Hardware]

Ever run the tap through the stems? Those 4 wee holes produce a stream right down the center, crafty bastards!!

 

[OF]

No. The heater is.

You won't be surprised to find out that I disagree.

No, I meant in the vapor producing system......you knew what I meant I think. The SS cup is the source of heat to make vapor, how it is heated doesn't matter here?

You're right, we don't agree. But we also don't agree on Radiation heating.........

Edit: @Stu just see your test, much more professional and leaves no doubt to any reasonable person

I beg your pardon! Those who don't agree with you are not 'reasonable persons'? There are several of us.

OF

 

[Andreaerdna]

I beg your pardon! Those who don't agree with you are not 'reasonable persons'? There are several of us.

OF

Why you get fisty?

Any person refusing to accept an evidence is not using reason but faith, hence not reasonable

 

[Stu]

No, I meant in the vapor producing system......you knew what I meant I think. The SS cup is the source of heat to make vapor, how it is heated doesn't matter here?

I would contend that the heater is the source of the "vapor producing system". Whatever is between the heater and the load (the bowl in this case) ultimately has an affect on the heating dynamics to be sure, but it shouldn't be considered the "source" of the heat by any interpretation.

But we also don't agree on Radiation heating.........

You should try toast sometime. It's delicious when smothered with melted butter, I tell you. Goes great with bacon and eggs, too.

Why you get fisty?

I don't think he's being fisty at all, but I must admit that I'm not sure what that means. Let's try to keep our adjectives civil as we are all here to discuss vaporizers and have fun exchanging information. It's kinda what FC is known for!

In any case, this is all drifting off topic so we should probably focus the conversation back to the Solo II. We can all have a PM party if you like. I'll bring the chips.

 

[OF]

I would contend that the heater is the source of the "vapor producing system". Whatever is between the heater and the load (the bowl in this case) ultimately has an affect on the heating dynamics to be sure, but it shouldn't be considered the "source" of the heat by any interpretation.

You should try toast sometime. It's delicious when smothered with melted butter, I tell you. Goes great with bacon and eggs, too.

Ah, so! Since the heater transfers the heat into the cup but pure conduction, it's obviously a conduction vape....... Silly me, I should have realized.

Agreed. I like toast too, and usually make it by Radiation.....sometimes by Conduction (I like the Panini Press next to the toaster too). I've even been known to 'kill two birds' by using two grams of the infused butter in the jar in the door.

One last thought on the conduction/convection thing. I think we agree convection is very inefficient in terms of energy used to make a given amount of vapor (having to heat all the cold air in addition to supplying the heat to make vapor)? And we're celebrating Solo IIs exceptionally long battery life?

Granted the other way to get more miles per tank full is to install a bigger tank (rather than a more efficient engine) so we may be looking at a bigger battery (capacity wise) than the original Solo but Solo is not a 'battery hog' like T1/Cera?

Again, in a way we're renaming roses......instead of enjoying them for what they are. Maybe we should just say it works by magic and let it go at that.

OF

 

[biohacker]

Convection doesn't have this delay, right? Bung an cold load in a real convection vape and you get instant results (or very nearly so).

After owning and testing many convection vapes, I disagree. With a cold load, it actually takes some time/technique, it's not instant but it's subjective and depends on many variables (draw speed, temperature).

Way better airflow. The intake is right here under the bowl on the back side...

Dude, you're KILLING me! Seriously, "WAY" better airflow than the Solo 1/Air? This is making me reconsider, just based on that one statement! Are you using a PVHES gong in your video?

The abv comes out light brown er then say my vid when I let it soak for 4 min. (dark brown)

You heat soaked for FOUR minutes? Wow! It must have tasted horrible?

They accomplish this by a more wide open air intake. Whereas you can regulate your convection/conduction session. Convection/get it full heat hit it quick. Conduction/chill buddddddyyyy and let it flow.

Would love more extrapolation about the airflow I agree that you can manipulate the physics as well, same as the original Solo.

Seems like convection is at work here. I still think it is a hybrid though.

Yep, there are 4 holes in the oven for a reason.

I had the same fundamental understanding of the Solo as @OF at one time. Then I tested that theory with an experiment that is easily repeatable and the results changed my mind. When evidence suggests that my assumption was incorrect, I don't ignore that evidence in order to maintain my (false) assumption. I accept what the evidence provided and change my opinion. But hey, that's just me.

Same here, and I should probably dig up my posts in the Solo thread, but don't want to steer off topic. It was an exchange between @OF and I about this exact very topic, so it's been discussed there ad nauseam. Basically I was talking about using the Solo in "convection mode" and have vids on my youtube channel illustrating it with micro loads. I don't see how else it wouldn't be convection when you crank to top temp, without a stem inserted, and then let it get nice and hot and insert your stem (giggity!), with the right airflow you get "convection vapour", with a slow build up like say, the Vriptech Heat Wand for example. I do still think that @OF is generally correct, in that it is a conduction vape, but like most vapes including convection, there are other physics at play, like convection with the Solo, and even the 100% convection Grasshopper, isn't just convection IMO, but also has radiant heat from that tiny metal bowl.

@OF also states that the HerbalAire is convection, which it is, but also has conduction.

All semantics, who cares in the end, not many TRUE convection or conduction vapes out there anyway, they are all mostly hybrids IMO

Now, time for damage control to see if I can reverse my order reversal You're fault @ShayWhiteGrow and I love you for it!

Airflow is huge for me, and if the Solo 2 has the airflow of say the Solo 1 with PVHES, i'm happy with that!

But @ShayWhiteGrow with this increased airflow with the Solo 2, does it thin cloud the vapour density like the PVHES does? Or was it a non issue due to the higher 220c max temp? Did you notice a big difference between 220c on the Solo 2 compared to 210c on Solo 1?

 

[PPN]

also states that the HerbalAire is convection, which it is, but also has conduction.

It depends how you use it...if you load in the crucible yes there is some conduction involved here but loaded in the TonG or the new crucible attached to the TonG system it's negligible.

 

[Custom Flower Hardware]

After owning and testing many convection vapes, I disagree. With a cold load, it actually takes some time/technique, it's not instant but it's subjective and depends on many variables (draw speed, temperature).



Dude, you're KILLING me! Seriously, "WAY" better airflow than the Solo 1/Air? This is making me reconsider, just based on that one statement! Are you using a PVHES gong in your video?



You heat soaked for FOUR minutes? Wow! It must have tasted horrible?



Would love more extrapolation about the airflow I agree that you can manipulate the physics as well, same as the original Solo.



Yep, there are 4 holes in the oven for a reason.



Same here, and I should probably dig up my posts in the Solo thread, but don't want to steer off topic. It was an exchange between @OF and I about this exact very topic, so it's been discussed there ad nauseam. Basically I was talking about using the Solo in "convection mode" and have vids on my youtube channel illustrating it with micro loads. I don't see how else it wouldn't be convection when you crank to top temp, without a stem inserted, and then let it get nice and hot and insert your stem (giggity!), with the right airflow you get "convection vapour", with a slow build up like say, the Vriptech Heat Wand for example. I do still think that @OF is generally correct, in that it is a conduction vape, but like most vapes including convection, there are other physics at play, like convection with the Solo, and even the 100% convection Grasshopper, isn't just convection IMO, but also has radiant heat from that tiny metal bowl.

@OF also states that the HerbalAire is convection, which it is, but also has conduction.

All semantics, who cares in the end, not many TRUE convection or conduction vapes out there anyway, they are all mostly hybrids IMO

Now, time for damage control to see if I can reverse my order reversal You're fault @ShayWhiteGrow and I love you for it!

Airflow is huge for me, and if the Solo 2 has the airflow of say the Solo 1 with PVHES, i'm happy with that!

But @ShayWhiteGrow with this increased airflow with the Solo 2, does it thin cloud the vapour density like the PVHES does? Or was it a non issue due to the higher 220c max temp? Did you notice a big difference between 220c on the Solo 2 compared to 210c on Solo 1?

Didn't taste like shit at all It was a pvhes stem. Sure the airflow is better, you saw the megavent on the back right? Density, well, go watch the vid again. The higher max temp means quicker extraction. Convection/conduction? Who give a shit, this piece is fun! 9 bowls in and battery still shows greater then half. That's almost 2 air batteries right there. Guess those who wanted removable batts like carrying 5 around. Is that an 18650 in your pocket? Or are you just glad to see me? I might also mention their ridiculously priced soft pouch actually rocks. I fit the unit pluse my 2 pvhes's (18/14) and a long and short stem. All capped, no smelly!