stonedBBer
Active Member
Yes
2ZM by Herbaltherm
- Thread starter sagey
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- 2zm herbaltherm rbt zion
attackpoints
Well-Known Member
In terms of build quality, or compared to the og zion heater? Both?
I'm guessing build if there are already button failures and joint issues.
stonedBBer
Active Member
Elaborate?
Trulukkyphrank
Well-Known Member
I got mine last week from the first drop. It looks good qualitywise, but feels for me more like a big woodblock without much tech. It was an impulsive buy because I had the discount and just wanted to try it out. After reading here I'm a bit concerned about the longevity..
Last night I had time to try out. I planed to do one burn off and use it after, but the smell out of the heater was very harsh (metallic?) and not pleasing. So I did a few burn offs more, like pressing the button 10s and blow in the small hole. Still smelled strange, very far away from neutral which was my expectation. I didn't used it further and went back to my all glass vape..
So here my question, to the ones that are happy with their device.
Had you a same experience at the start? about the smell? And how do you use it? It's my first unregulated vape
Thanks in advance!
edit: spelling
Last night I had time to try out. I planed to do one burn off and use it after, but the smell out of the heater was very harsh (metallic?) and not pleasing. So I did a few burn offs more, like pressing the button 10s and blow in the small hole. Still smelled strange, very far away from neutral which was my expectation. I didn't used it further and went back to my all glass vape..
So here my question, to the ones that are happy with their device.
Had you a same experience at the start? about the smell? And how do you use it? It's my first unregulated vape
Thanks in advance!edit: spelling
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Zillacon
🤠🤠🤠🤠
@stonedBBer asbsolutly, these units are not refined in the slightest. Build quality leaves a lot to be desired with large gaps between wooden pieces, unsightly globs of glue, and just overall what feels like a rushed unit.
I am no stranger to RBT tech, and although performance is okay...it is nothing groundbreaking. I would have been very happy just sticking w/ the zm.
I am no stranger to RBT tech, and although performance is okay...it is nothing groundbreaking. I would have been very happy just sticking w/ the zm.
Not that I doubt you or anything, but got any pics? Plenty of ones looking good, but not many showing the opposite and I'm interested.
Zillacon
🤠🤠🤠🤠
@PossumMD I can get some but it may be a few days. I am in a very deep thicket in work this week.
With the units selling for over $400 this type of work is unacceptable (I did get the unit for significantly cheaper with the early adopters discount). The unit as I said is rough around the edges, it was delayed, and with everything else going on that is coming to light it has left an unsurprisingly bad taste in my mouth. I have various other $400 or more dollar vape, and this one does not stand with the rest.
With the units selling for over $400 this type of work is unacceptable (I did get the unit for significantly cheaper with the early adopters discount). The unit as I said is rough around the edges, it was delayed, and with everything else going on that is coming to light it has left an unsurprisingly bad taste in my mouth. I have various other $400 or more dollar vape, and this one does not stand with the rest.
stonedBBer
Active Member
Feeling better about getting tm2 instead. Just upset since I now own a bunch of gvb stems for the 2zm or p80 I can't use
Good news is that they sell really well on the second hand market! Also I’m glad I listened to the old timers on here and backed out of my pre-order. Some of y’all predicted this predicament pretty spot on
stonedBBer
Active Member
Yeah I need to start posting the ones I got to see if anyone here wants some or people off ent exchange.
Yeah old timers called it damn well, which is a shame. Wanted Ryan to do better and be better
I was considering the milaana 4 but Im up for this toad lot so passed on it.
leanpubpackage
Well-Known Member
hmm…started reading backwards because of the juicy drama that unfolded.I have been asked by Ryan to post this
"Herbaltherm was designed to be a Lean Start-Up company. Lean Start-Up is a cost effective way to test your business plan. With the vaporizer market in the valley of it's fall from grace, a quick market test was still in order.
Given the declining condition of the market over the past few years, no one in there right mind would decide to make an entry. However, I had been designing the last few years and still had the old machinery and tools so minimum effort was required to execute a lean start-up plan.
I also had a secret weapon, my friend and mentor Pakalolo2. An accomplished business man that thought like me, a healthy and flavorful way to consume has to blow up given the health techno conscience consumer. So we build a plan to sustain a business on the low volume of a niche industry... we called it Craft Batch Collectibles.
So, with the plan in place we started making Minimal Viable Products to test market with. A MVP is a "product" made using the least amount of elements, materials, steps... aka as low cost as possible and still deliver the core value. In our case, it was quality thermal liberators.
Started with the 3TM which received rave reviews but did not impress the Dynaverse. The second release was the 14DE or Daberb. Again folks loved the secure cap and hybrid vapor produced but interest remained low. So, we made a bigger one, the 19DX and suffered to same fate of minimal demand. For fun, the 8RD was released bring back 2017... again no sales but no worries.... they can be used for cooling mouthpieces for the 2ZM. Then the 5DT and 1MT were released along with the hot hole which makes them cordless. These devices cordless produce the best (1MT) and hardest hitting vapor on the market imo.... still no love. The 2ZM was a chore as the woodworker backed out of making them. Given that there was a strong demand at the pre-order the 2ZM was redesigned to use a 3D printed part to enable it to be fabricated using the tools I had on-hand. Unfortunately, only 30% of the folks that put down a deposit came to claim their 2ZM. Another bust. Given the issues with the 2ZM execution it was theorized that the addition of the 4MI and the 4MD could collectively make HerbalTherm sustainable, however this does not appear that it will provide long-term sustainability.
I do have to admit, I believe the plan was solid and making 11 designs in just over a year is an accomplishment that I am proud of. However, the numbers don't lie, the industry is cooked lol. No one is posting about vapes, the forum are down to a slow crawl of "experts" and the help me pick my new vape guys. viewer count is down from 50k to 500 most places and even the Puffco is gasping for air with it's new budget peak. We are now past the freak out sales and the industry seems to be a ghost town maybe foreshadowed by the Ghost? This I new, but thought some fresh offense in the midst of the defense would pan out. What I found out, is that RBT tech is ho hum as best, but there is always a silver lining.
The plan was to leverage existing designs from the past and spring board off of them to by the necessary machinery, tooling, etc. required to design fully custom vaporizers and there is already a design for an unregulated, variable heat intensity, battery indicator, ceramic housed redesigned heater, POD or not, integrated cooling, USB C charging, fuse protected design... so unfortunately we wont be getting there but, there is good news in it if we look at the data and take what the universe was so gracious to give.
There is strength enough in the 2ZM, 4MD and 4MI that they will be executed as "projects". This allows me to do what I love which is the design, proto, test, refine process as you can see by the 4 videos on the 4MD on the LubeTube. The great thing about lean start-up is the data is there to predict how many to make based on the pre-order signal. These projects are a high number of intricate steps so they most be done as a batch so you need to decide the "lifetime demand" and make them all in one batch step by step in order to gain any level of efficiency.
So rather than try and force the universe to give me more, I will graciously accept what has been given to me. QTY 50 - 2ZM 100 - 4MD and 200 - 4MI will be made to fullfill the pre-order demand with 25% extra to sell direct post launch. Once the pre-orders are complete the www will be shut down and the remaining units will be sold on Herbaltherm.freeforums.net. This should be around the first of the year. The price of the pre-orders have been adjusted to reflect that every unit will come with a repair kit and videos will be released to aide in repair. Guess I saw this coming and the DIY repair design philosophy will ease those worried about my going out of business. Additional repair kits will be available at this time. This will leave a home base for the 400 people who will own a device and the DIY repair should keep these devices going for decades as the RBT has proven the reliability of the tech and the Herbaltherm will make one last go as perfecting it.
Thanks again to all who came along for the ride with the godfather of the unregulated portable thermal liberatorI am proud of the work done in executing the plan that Pak and I put together and the joy is in the work, and not in the results as they are well out of my control. No lie, it is hard to lay it down after a decade of fukin with it, but I am excited to find my next role in mechanical engineering design!
Peace, Love and Happiness,
Ryan"
Lean Start-Up
Herbaltherm was designed to be a Lean Start-Up company. Lean Start-Up is a cost effective way to test your business plan. With the vaporizer market in the valley of it's fall from grace, a quick market test was still in order. Given the declining condition of the market over the past few years...herbaltherm.com
I have to say that there’s a bit of a lack of self awareness that Ryan faced which I think hurt his success. He blames the market, but I wonder if he ever thought to blame the products he was making. A market can always be created through innovation and positioning. Ryan did not innovate nor create products that positioned itself above the rest in the same categories. His niche was manual/unregulated devices that only a small group of an already small group of vaporists would find interest in. Of those that are interested, they probably already have a similar product in their collection…Mi, TM, Terpcicle, bakx, wireless ball vapes…
I’m not sure his secret weapon was a weapon at all…otherwise there should have been better business advice given.
There’s still a chance to innovate and understand what appeals to the broader vaporent market, which IS INDEED growing! Otherwise, RIP HerbalTherm
I totally agree. He kept releasing things that were already on the market and then seemed very surprised they werent flying off the shelf. I do think there is a market for a Mi4 though but that is still a niche in a niche in a niche there.
oddjobold
Vape swap shop
I totally agree. The vaporiser industry is far from dead. You only have to look at the sucess of tiny might to see that.
However because of the sucess of vapes like the tinymight, the bar has been set very high for high volume sales.
I did suggest Ryan did a regulated vape, but he is a one man band and perhaps that was too difficult and time consuming for his limited manpower.
Shit Snacks
Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
If you can, just make a post here in the classifieds, saying you are looking for one ... Easier than trying to hunt and snag one on the exchange discord ... (claim is still that MI4 will be made and ship, but there is some risk going that route now it would seem?)
stonedBBer
Active Member
This is definitely a cause for concern for milaana buyers. In Ryan's IG stream he said he still hasn't cut the wood for the milaana or the desktop and can't do it due to weather after the next month roughly. Very likely they will be cut quick and maybe rougher
dutchey666
Well-Known Member
(Just speaking on the device)
I got my unit a few days ago, been playing with it a bit. The fact that it's an absolute chonker aside I'm really happy with the way mine turned out. The wood looks great, the top especially shines. I don't have any gaps, seems solid aside from a slight wobble on the battery door. Functionally it seems very forgiving, can feel in the vapor when to let up on the heater. Mine seems to hotspot 2 ball vape dots at opposite ends of the bowl so you gotta give it the rbtwist.
I got my unit a few days ago, been playing with it a bit. The fact that it's an absolute chonker aside I'm really happy with the way mine turned out. The wood looks great, the top especially shines. I don't have any gaps, seems solid aside from a slight wobble on the battery door. Functionally it seems very forgiving, can feel in the vapor when to let up on the heater. Mine seems to hotspot 2 ball vape dots at opposite ends of the bowl so you gotta give it the rbtwist.
Thus proving the problem with the flaw mentioned above.
Also, Ryan has mass emailed everyone on the list apologising and reassuring everyone that the orders will go through. It isn't reassuring in the slightest though, comes across defeated and willing to blame anyone/thing but himself. The being defeated is fine I guess, it's the unwillingness to accept that there may have been some fault on his behalf that is causing this.
dutchey666
Well-Known Member
Just don't twist it in the device.
I got what I paid for (a little later than expected but whatever), so I can't really complain. Hopefully it doesn't break but it seems fairly diyable, as long as he follows through on repair video/explanations I'm happy.
edit: And now they're limited edition!
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stonedBBer
Active Member
Amazing how customer service and communication improved when the refunds started to hit
ADULTSWIM
All Kids Outta The Pool!
Got my refund email. I believe that my 2ZM just came with soft buttons that failed. The replacement button that came in the package was much better quality. I can see why others say that they have enjoyed the 2ZM experience and are happy with their purchase. I was close to being one of those people. The 2ZM that i got in the mail when working was a smooth heavy hitter. In fact i was hitting it 24/7 and the buttons got put through the ringer. If you have a preorder maybe don't cancel and just see what you get. Maybe you get one with firm buttons, if so never disassemble it and keep the glass from breaking at all cost. I genuinely don't think the epoxy at the top of the glass is a big health risk. But i do see it getting in the way of taking the glass out(i have tried with no success). I can't wait to see the DIY instructions.