Underdog Log Vapes

[underdog]

Reddit.........they even out stoopided me there.

I've recently spent the better part of several days trying to help a couple new users (to Underdogs and Logs in general) figure out how to use their Dogs successfully which to me is as simple as unpacking it and following the instructions. Neither are FC users but are having similarly difficulties to some of those here.. both are new models Alphas/SC3.

One I had them send it back only to discover they weren't inserting their stems all the way (ID or OD fitting) to the stops because they were afraid material would touch the core and that'd be 'gross and messy'. Instead they were insisting on trying to just barely touch the tip of the stems to the tip of the core and crank their voltage up to near 15v. That's using an Alpha from the same batch as your first new one so you can probably imagine how hard that's being needlessly overdriven. The vape blows crazy clouds here with decent material and being run at 11.6v/8w of course.

The other is a regular SC3 and the user is determined to take a glass direct draw stem and fill it with material to the wrong side of the screen (ie, loading like 4" of material into it) then complaining that the draw resistance is too high and that it just scorches the top of the material and doesn't work.

If I can get users, especially those new to Logs, to slow down and read/follow the instructions before going full 'hold my beer' mode I can eliminate these issues and spend my time making more Dogs instead.

.... So the advice SHOULD be that if your power supply or VVPS doesn't seem to get your dog hot enough, for whatever reason, it isn't capable of driving enough amperage to heat the device up sufficiently. If I had a spare I'd try that first and second I'd look for a more powerful VVPS. When I mentioned driving my alpha at 10.5, I INTENDED that to contrast with that other users report of topping out at 12. If you're having to turn it all the way up to 12 its either too high - and I could have sworn he posted pictures of burnt ABV with raw stuff mixed in but maybe that was somebody else - or your display is wildly inaccurate and you're not actually getting what it tells you. Or his dog actually does draw more amperage than the rest of us, which UD has said is the case for some of the early models. Actually the difference in the last two doesn't change the solution, which is get a more powerful VVPS.

Am I on track? Hopefully. But it HAS been more years ago since I took my last Electrical Engineering class than most of you guys have been alive.

I bench test each power supply, each heating element and then each finished vape to come up with the recommended starting voltage range that goes on the instruction sheet so baring a power supply breaking during shipment from us to the user the answer is almost never that the user needs more power. Assuming good technique and good material the indicated voltage range on the instructions should provide a good starting point for dialing in without significant risk of combustion.

When new users have issues the reality is almost always that they are trying to force a technique that isn't compatible with Log Vapes and when the results are poor they overpower/overdrive the vape by cranking the knob up higher and higher. Then instead of following the instructions or asking us they ask online and someone says 'hmmm you probably need more power' and the hole gets dug deeper and deeper.

TLDR - In 90% of cases the answer is not more power, it's dial in your technique and material to give the vape what it needs to do it's job.

Log vapes are super simple and easy to use but I think people underestimate how subtle balance goes into the design and things go wrong when they start tweaking random stuff. Experienced users know how much moving a screen or grind consistency can affect performance but new users don't and often don't believe it when someone tells them.

 

[CurryLeafTreehugger]

I've recently spent the better part of several days trying to help a couple new users (to Underdogs and Logs in general) figure out how to use their Dogs successfully which to me is as simple as unpacking it and following the instructions. Neither are FC users but are having similarly difficulties to some of those here.. both have new model Alphas.

One I had them send it back only to discover they weren't inserting their stems all the way (ID or OD fitting) to the stops because they were afraid material would touch the core and that'd be 'gross and messy'. Instead they were insisting on trying to just barely touch the tip of the stems to the tip of the core and crank their voltage up to near 15v. That's using an Alpha from the same batch as your first new one so you can probably imagine how hard that's being needlessly overdriven. The vape blows crazy clouds here with decent material and being run at 11.6v/8w of course.

The other is a regular SC3 and the user is determined to take a glass direct draw stem and fill it with material to the wrong side of the screen (ie, loading like 4" of material into it) then complaining that the draw resistance is too high and that it just scorches the top of the material and doesn't work.

If I can get users, especially those new to Logs, to slow down and read/follow the instructions before going full 'hold my beer' mode I can eliminate these issues and spend my time making more Dogs instead.




I bench test each power supply, each heating element and then each finished vape to come up with the recommended starting voltage range that goes on the instruction sheet so baring a power supply breaking during shipment from us to the user the answer is almost never that the user needs more power. Assuming good technique and good material the indicated voltage range on the instructions should provide a good starting point for dialing in without significant risk of combustion.

When new users have issues the reality is almost always that they are trying to force a technique that isn't compatible with Log Vapes and when the results are poor they overpower/overdrive the vape by cranking the knob up higher and higher. Then instead of following the instructions or asking us they ask online and someone says 'hmmm you probably need more power' and the hole gets dug deeper and deeper.

TLDR - In 90% of cases the answer is not more power, it's dial in your technique and material to give the vape what it needs to do it's job.

Log vapes are super simple and easy to use but I think people underestimate how subtle balance goes into the design and things go wrong when they start tweaking random stuff. Experienced users know how much moving a screen or grind consistency can affect performance but new users don't and often don't believe it when someone tells them.

OK I should have prefaced that with ASSUMING YOU ARE DOING EVERYTHING ELSE RIGHT. Sorry for being inaccurate. I mean if you actually are loading sufficiently hydrated weed properly in the stem, and you CANNOT combust at 12v (topping your VVPS out), then consider the power supply.

I wasn't sure what that one guy meant when he said he was filling his stem half full. My first thought was LITERALLY stem half full, like 2" or whatever half the stem length is of weed, which is way overloaded. But then he said he left the screens at stock height so ... maybe he only meant half the height between the screen and the top of the stem, which is considerably less but still sort of a lot. I haven't tried it - don't plan to, I don't see how that could possibly roast evenly - but I think you COULD do this without getting it too packed down and it probably would vape better than the same amount in a vape with a more constricted airway - I cannot imagine ever doing something like this with my SC2, for example, it would just pack solid right away.

I have tested the suck-it-up-and-tamp method and while it doesn't EXACTLY pack, it does sort of crust over and stick together on the first draw so you do have to dislodge it to dump it, but not actually scrape like I had to do with my SC2. I think I'll stick to the scoop-and-tap method, especially with the larger Alpha stems. It is taking me some time to get used to the huge draw you get on the Alpha, LOL!

 

[underdog]

OK I should have prefaced that with ASSUMING YOU ARE DOING EVERYTHING ELSE RIGHT. Sorry for being inaccurate. I mean if you actually are loading sufficiently hydrated weed properly in the stem, and you CANNOT combust at 12v (topping your VVPS out), then consider the power supply.

I wasn't sure what that one guy meant when he said he was filling his stem half full. My first thought was LITERALLY stem half full, like 2" or whatever half the stem length is of weed, which is way overloaded. But then he said he left the screens at stock height so ... maybe he only meant half the height between the screen and the top of the stem, which is considerably less but still sort of a lot. I haven't tried it - don't plan to, I don't see how that could possibly roast evenly - but I think you COULD do this without getting it too packed down and it probably would vape better than the same amount in a vape with a more constricted airway - I cannot imagine ever doing something like this with my SC2, for example, it would just pack solid right away.

I have tested the suck-it-up-and-tamp method and while it doesn't EXACTLY pack, it does sort of crust over and stick together on the first draw so you do have to dislodge it to dump it, but not actually scrape like I had to do with my SC2. I think I'll stick to the scoop-and-tap method, especially with the larger Alpha stems. It is taking me some time to get used to the huge draw you get on the Alpha, LOL!

Just to reiterate I'm not talking about any of the users here on FC, just a couple others who had similar difficulties and what I found the problems to be after the fact.

I'm also not trying to pick on new users, instead just trying to get them the info they need to get those clouds that everyone else is enjoying.

 

[CurryLeafTreehugger]

Sorry, not my intent to seem like I was ragging on anybody, I was actually trying to point out that the Alphas probably CAN take a much larger load than even what I've been using. If he was loading from the stock screen level, that's not necessarily badly overloaded like it would have been in an older dog. I just wasn't sure what "halfway" meant in that context.

 

[Ripstar]

TLDR - In 90% of cases the answer is not more power, it's dial in your technique and material to give the vape what it needs to do it's job.

I agree! What you explained in your post was why I felt the need to make a couple of the posts I did previously, explaining how the technique might have more to do with performance than voltage. I think some of these "new" users are unfortunately new to vaping in general. I have yet to own a vape that I didn't have to spend a decent amount of time on to dial it into MY needs but, that's my favorite part! That's also why I could take my beautiful Alpha straight out of the box and produce huge clouds. Did I dial in temps after? Yep. But the one thing that didn't change, was my technique...And, that's why my Underdogs are my favorite all-around(micro-dosing, massive session) vape.

 

[vaporculture]

Voltage is not a useful point of comparison between vapes without the other variables that make up Ohm's Law.. wattage is the only practical metric by which we can make comparisons. To find out the wattage being used you can use a power supply that displays wattage or you can calculate it by multiplying the voltage and the current (amps) the device is using.Voltage alone can't give us an accurate measure of performance any more than we could compare how fast our cars go by sharing what RPM we're driving at.

Thank you Dave for clarifying this for everyone -- rereading my earlier post, I see how my use of "voltage" was misleading and wrong.

If your VVPS is turned all the way up and you are still limited on the top end then you're not getting the full, necessary voltage to control the temp. Unfortunately, if this is the case, you may need a new VVPS that can give you more volts.

Watts and wattage would have been more appropriate. I do not want or intend to put out misinformation. Given this, if I could still edit my post, I would try and make it better in this regard.

I also regret referring to the Alpha as a "monster" that could "rip your head off". I now see how that language, that I thought was playful, could have made some folks think that an Alpha log could kill them.

 

[mephisto]

I am loving my new Alpha. The stainless one hitter is the cat's ass! The direct draw glass stem will take some getting used to with the larger dia. and massive airflow. The 18mm glass gong stem rides just right in my water piece, generating tasty vapor at 10.0.
I am happy that we can all find our way back to vape civility. I am ready for the next drop. Hats off to the gentleman who swept the house on the last drop.

edit for highnessnessness

 

[Stu]

Please take a deep breath everyone, we are all on the same team here.

I've just deleted some posts that should've been PMs. If anyone wants to continue this fascinating discussion, please take it to private messages and spare the rest of us.

Thank you.

 

[BKR2311]

I bet you a Alpha that fixes the issue.
15 should prolly be standard for Alpha cores?
Some people wanna go hotter than others.

hahaha I'm gonna hold you to that. Damn, now im stoked. It either hits like a champ, or I get another Alpha

 

[arb]

I've recently spent the better part of several days trying to help a couple new users (to Underdogs and Logs in general) figure out how to use their Dogs successfully which to me is as simple as unpacking it and following the instructions. Neither are FC users but are having similarly difficulties to some of those here.. both are new models Alphas/SC3.

One I had them send it back only to discover they weren't inserting their stems all the way (ID or OD fitting) to the stops because they were afraid material would touch the core and that'd be 'gross and messy'. Instead they were insisting on trying to just barely touch the tip of the stems to the tip of the core and crank their voltage up to near 15v. That's using an Alpha from the same batch as your first new one so you can probably imagine how hard that's being needlessly overdriven. The vape blows crazy clouds here with decent material and being run at 11.6v/8w of course.

The other is a regular SC3 and the user is determined to take a glass direct draw stem and fill it with material to the wrong side of the screen (ie, loading like 4" of material into it) then complaining that the draw resistance is too high and that it just scorches the top of the material and doesn't work.

If I can get users, especially those new to Logs, to slow down and read/follow the instructions before going full 'hold my beer' mode I can eliminate these issues and spend my time making more Dogs instead.




I bench test each power supply, each heating element and then each finished vape to come up with the recommended starting voltage range that goes on the instruction sheet so baring a power supply breaking during shipment from us to the user the answer is almost never that the user needs more power. Assuming good technique and good material the indicated voltage range on the instructions should provide a good starting point for dialing in without significant risk of combustion.

When new users have issues the reality is almost always that they are trying to force a technique that isn't compatible with Log Vapes and when the results are poor they overpower/overdrive the vape by cranking the knob up higher and higher. Then instead of following the instructions or asking us they ask online and someone says 'hmmm you probably need more power' and the hole gets dug deeper and deeper.

TLDR - In 90% of cases the answer is not more power, it's dial in your technique and material to give the vape what it needs to do it's job

Trust me it ain't working.......its you.
But I will indeed buy that busted ass non working unit you have for what you paid for it after the new supply arrives if you are still unable to get it running.
All I ask is please don't get it all smoke smelling.
Shoot me a pm like I said........

hahaha I'm gonna hold you to that. Damn, now im stoked. It either hits like a champ, or I get another Alpha

 

[Sour Dream]

Are you able to leave the alphas on 24/7 or is that just the sc3+ and smaller? And does it work with the aromatherapy cup(for some reason I thought it didn’t)?

 

[CurryLeafTreehugger]

Are you able to leave the alphas on 24/7 or is that just the sc3+ and smaller? And does it work with the aromatherapy cup(for some reason I thought it didn’t)?

The diameter of the opening on the alpha is too large to stabilize the aromatherapy cup - you'd have to balance it on the heater core and it wouldn't take much to end up with wax and essential oil everywhere.

My SC3+ gets a lot hotter (body, I mean) than the Alpha. I'm not planning on leaving the SC3+ on 24/7 whether or not that's technically OK, just because I love the wood and paid extra for the wood so ... I'm keeping it off when not in use. I'm so slow anyway that I likely wouldn't even notice a 30 min warm up LOL!

The Alpha gets warm but never anything near to hot. At least the version I have, doesn't seem to give off nearly as much heat as my SC2 or the SC3+ and I would be very surprised if you couldn't leave it on. Pretty sure it says you can, maybe I saw that on the UD FAQ?

 

[Sour Dream]

The diameter of the opening on the alpha is too large to stabilize the aromatherapy cup - you'd have to balance it on the heater core and it wouldn't take much to end up with wax and essential oil everywhere.

My SC3+ gets a lot hotter (body, I mean) than the Alpha. I'm not planning on leaving the SC3+ on 24/7 whether or not that's technically OK, just because I love the wood and paid extra for the wood so ... I'm keeping it off when not in use. I'm so slow anyway that I likely wouldn't even notice a 30 min warm up LOL!

The Alpha gets warm but never anything near to hot. At least the version I have, doesn't seem to give off nearly as much heat as my SC2 or the SC3+ and I would be very surprised if you couldn't leave it on. Pretty sure it says you can, maybe I saw that on the UD FAQ?

Idk you are probably right about the alpha, I’m being extremely lazy right now I’ll check it again tomorrow. I just want a log vape I can leave on without worry

 

[CurryLeafTreehugger]

First off sorry for not multi quoting and posting back to back. I can't figure out how to fix it now that I've already replied to Dave.

Whenever I do this, I quote the post in the normal REPLY form, then copy it, then EDIT the post that was already posted and paste the quote in there.

I don't know why but there is no "cancel" button on the reply so make sure you either CUT the quote (CTL-X) or make sure you delete everything with backspace, eg don't leave the quote in the reply box or it'll still be there next time you try to reply anywhere else (until you log out or close the browser)

 

[BKR2311]

Idk you are probably right about the alpha, I’m being extremely lazy right now I’ll check it again tomorrow. I just want a log vape I can leave on without worry

I've left my Alpha plugged in since I got it, no issues. It gets slightly warm to touch but that's about it. The amazing part about logs is the fact that you can just leave them plugged in.

 

[underdog]

Are you able to leave the alphas on 24/7 or is that just the sc3+ and smaller? And does it work with the aromatherapy cup(for some reason I thought it didn’t)?

Yes you can leave the Alpha on 24/7 no problem.

We don't have an aromatherapy cup for them though and don't have plans to add one as the Alpha isn't suited to that kind of use and it's important for it to be able to vent unobstructed out the top.

 

[Sour Dream]

I've left my Alpha plugged in since I got it, no issues. It gets slightly warm to touch but that's about it. The amazing part about logs is the fact that you can just leave them plugged in.

Yes you can leave the Alpha on 24/7 no problem.

We don't have an aromatherapy cup for them though and don't have plans to add one as the Alpha isn't suited to that kind of use and it's important for it to be able to vent unobstructed out the top.

I appreciate the info thanks!

 

[badbee]

@underdog , your post reminds me of something I read recently: a National Parks spokesmen was talking about the difficulty of designing bear proof garbage cans and saying the problem with making one that was impossible for bears and easy for humans is that there is considerable overlap in intelligence between the smartest bears and the dumbest campers.

You can't make things idiot proof because they are always making bigger idiots...

 

[underdog]

Heya Dogs, we're still working on the current (smallish) batch of Pups for the refresh and am still hoping to finish it up today but between sticking my thumb into a spinny lathe cutter on Monday and some days spent in tech support mode we might not make the deadline.

I'll keep y'all posted and if it doesn't happen today we're still planning on dropping before the weekend is up.

Also there will be a not-quite-handful of Alphas coming back over the next week or two and we'll check those out to make sure they're operating fine and then put them up for adoption as rescue Dogs. I may take the opportunity to rework some of the wooden shells but not committed to that just yet.

That is all. Party on and stay tuned for more...

 

[ProfessionalHandJob]

put them up for adoption as rescue Dogs

You should do this no earlier then Thursday when my check hits ;-)

 

[CurryLeafTreehugger]

This one was already SOLD like one or two drops ago at least. It is the most arresting dog I've seen coming out of the shop of Underdog and Underdogette.

I keep telling myself, the fact that it went before I ever saw it? Not relevant. Because, you know, that's a bit much for me, really. Kind of startling almost.

Yup. That's what I keep telling myself.

IT'S ALMOST HERE! IT'S ALMOST HERE! IT'S ALMOST HERE:

We are currently performing some scheduled maintenance.
We will be back as soon as possible. Thank you! UD Team​

 

[underdog]

The refresh is up!

The scowling Blue Mahoe might not be the prettiest but I'm a sucker for neat grain features.. also very very skinny for an Alpha.

That Pacific Yew is a chonky mofo too.

Two sweet burls that didn't quite make the deadline last time as well.

 

[CurryLeafTreehugger]

Wow, that is the FIRST TIME I ever got to see a drop right off the bat!

And no worries, my pack is not due to expand any time soon.

This one is my favorite this go round, "Afzelia Burl", an Alpha.

Hope all the doggies find new packs

 

[Ripstar]

Damnit....seeming I just gave my best bud the SC3+ to "try out", is that a good enough of a reason to buy a new Alpha? The Claro burl and the Afzelia are gorgeous. Hurry up, someone....

 

[vaporculture]

The refresh is up!

The scowling Blue Mahoe might not be the prettiest but I'm a sucker for neat grain features.. also very very skinny for an Alpha.

That Pacific Yew is a chonky mofo too.

Two sweet burls that didn't quite make the deadline last time as well.

Nice drop, Dave! Some really nice pieces for sure. That scowling Blue Mahoe is pretty sweet, but is no honey badger. Sometimes I go through the archives just to look at him...