arb
Semi shaved ape
I for one am sorry for the way things got all fucky yesterday.......my apologies for my offense.
GraniteState420
Well-Known Member
Well, mate....I have no need to convince strangers of anything, I simply pointed out someone talking about something they know nothing about.
Vapefanatic
Well-Known Member
I think you are intentionally missing the point and holding on to the only thing you can think of.
One last time, I did not say anything about Alpha that did not come from the manufacturer himself. So if you have a problem, bring it to the Top Dog. Not me! I think no one knows better than him, not even you! So there you go. Your post was pointless. I was trying to break it to you nicely…
Please…leave me alone and forward your grouses to the correct channel. We have nothing to talk about if you cannot even figure out what's going on?
arb
Semi shaved ape
Just for the record as of my last chat with the "big dog" he does not have and has never tried a coil driven flower vape.
I bought the weedeater and e43 just to see for myself.
I have changed daily drivers a few times over the years and wouldn't hesitate to do so again if I find a better experience.
Zero speculation on my part I used all 3 quite a bit before coming to my decision.
GraniteState420
Well-Known Member
Relax dude....my goodness. I'll agree to disagree. You're like dog with a bone, go vape please
Vapefanatic
Well-Known Member
Says the guy who came at me for no good reason. And I'm the dog with a bone who should relax? Really? Please…stop making it worse. I'll help you by stopping first. I've said all I needed to. The records will speak for themselves. Have a great day Sir.
Dave is sending me a new power supply that goes up to 15v. I'll let everyone here know how that goes
arb
Semi shaved ape
I bet you a Alpha that fixes the issue.
15 should prolly be standard for Alpha cores?
Some people wanna go hotter than others.
CurryLeafTreehugger
Well-Known Member
Honestly I don't get all the hostility from you. You keep saying you're done (with just this subject, I assume, NOBODY is trying to chase you off the Underdog thread) but then you're back again. You keep saying you're "only quoting the manufacturer" - what, you don't think he's capable of speaking for himself? I say that in bafflement because I don't get EITHER SIDE of this argument.
In fact I don't get all the hostility AT ALL. It was pointed out several times that the VVPS needed to be looked at for at least one, and possibly two (I'm not going back to check) posters having problems, and at least one of them is getting a new power supply now. Things happen. Stuff coming out of China rarely has much going for it in the way of quality control. Its a miracle as few power supplies screw up as do.
Nobody's trying to belittle anyone who is having problems. UD has already said he's willing to make it right with anyone having a problem. Arb has a similar offer out there, several people, in fact, have stated a willingness to take on these lost dogs. And the rest of us? We're just wracking our brains trying to HELP. The whole "size of cloud" thing from me was an honest attempt to come up with a new look at the same problem that didn't seem to be getting solved. Was I REACHING? YES. You bet! Desperately reaching trying to find some way to help. It's not like that was the FIRST thing that came out of my keyboard.
And it turned out the solution is most likely one that was already proffered SEVERAL times. EG get a new power supply.
After mucking about with my 2 power supplies (TekPower and UD supplied) I think there is a slight difference in their settings but its not outside the normal range of variation that you would expect from units in these price ranges. I think it amounts to .2v variance, plus or minus .1v, LOL! My alpha runs about .2v lower on the UD VVPS.
I can't seem to get Agni dialed in yet. Not sure why. I think its partly that it runs super hot - On the UD VVPS it was running well under 10v, 9.4v, though not yet dialed in - that seemed to be a little underpowered, but 10.5v was way too much. I haven't managed to get it dialed in yet on the Tekpower either. And it seems to come out way harsher than the same herb in the Alpha - possibly there is more air in the mix with the larger Alpha stems and that cuts any harshness? What do you think?
I'm wondering if maybe the thinner bodies just don't stabilize heat as well as chunkier. My Wild Vaple was chunkier - not exactly chunky but at least chunky-adjacent. All my other dogs except the Alpha are twigs. The Alpha is uber stable and it was super easy for me to dial in. (Of course, after 6 years of Underdoggery - I AM NOT casting stones or even sand at anyone new to UDs who's had trouble).
For those of you who've had chunky AND skinny dogs, did you see a difference?
I bet you a Alpha that fixes the issue.
15 should prolly be standard for Alpha cores?
Some people wanna go hotter than others.
I don't know, my alpha is running fine at 10.4v (on UD power supply) and 10.6v (on TekPower).
UD did point out that there is some voltage drop on the dual VVPS unit the guy had. When you split outputs like that there are a lot of little things that can (inadvertently) drop the voltage outputs for both ports. Even with USB devices, its been my experience that multiple USB ports on some chargers don't actually meet their claimed output - I have a dual port charger that is supposed to deliver 2A to EACH outlet, even when both are in use, but it never meets this criteria even if only one device is plugged in. It falls juuuuust short because they used cheap components that don't actually meet their spec reliably.
I think the higher requirements (VVPS wise) that UD talked about were only in relation to some of the early ones? Maybe?
Vapefanatic
Well-Known Member
Let me fill you in. I quoted manufacturer comment in a post, trying to advise a fellow member. I realized my fault for not minding by own business. Just don't know how many times i can apologize for it?
I was then misquoted several times, discrediting my post because I do not own an Alpha. But it's totally irrelevant because I do not need one. I was only quoting the manufacturer and nothing else. I don't need an Alpha to quote the maker of the Alpha, do I?
I thought it was clear enough but after 1-2 days, some guy starts the same exact thing with my post again. And after I explained again, he tells me to relax? I guess this may be where the hostility is coming from.
I do think the manufacturer can speak for themselves. I have repeatedly requested that this be forwarded to them and not me. Do you see the irony in all this? You guys are upset over things that didn't come from me at all. I am equally baffled.
Perhaps if no one quotes/ accuses me of anything any further, I can really be done with this? Would really appreciate it. I'd know better than to mind my own business next time. Learnt my lesson.
arb
Semi shaved ape
We run at 11.5,10.5 and 10.5 on our units wet or dry.
I have learned recently that what I considered spent is considered not spent by others.
So given the great variety of tastes and preferences more power seems a good choice.
We use one underdog Vvps and I run the others on my own power units.
All at the same setting regardless of supply.
I also fine grind and scoop load draw normally and set the dial to what works for you...........more cowbell.
Hey Dogs... show of hands... who wants me to go thru the last few pages and quote/answer questions/comments as best I can? You know throw some science bombs, textwall dissertations and whatnot around?
Trying to figure out if we're all looking to discuss stuff or argue cause I got different approaches for both.
Vote now by liking: Thumbs up for discussion, Mad for argue.
I'll come back in an hour and respond accordingly.
PS> .... and that response may or may not include spraying Dogs with my hose.
Trying to figure out if we're all looking to discuss stuff or argue cause I got different approaches for both.
Vote now by liking: Thumbs up for discussion, Mad for argue.
I'll come back in an hour and respond accordingly.
PS> .... and that response may or may not include spraying Dogs with my hose.
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GraniteState420
Well-Known Member
Hey Dogs... show of hands... who wants me to go thru the last few pages and quote/answer questions/comments as best I can? You know throw some science bombs, textwall dissertations and whatnot around?
Trying to figure out if we're all looking to discuss stuff or argue cause I got different approaches for both.
Vote now: devil emoji for arguing or science emoji for discussion.
I'll come back in an hour and respond accordingly.
PS> .... and that response may or may not include spraying Dogs with my hose.
....best I could find for a science emoji....
CurryLeafTreehugger
Well-Known Member
OH MY STARS AND LITTLE HOPPY TOADS! That's one mad scientist!
Please not the hose! It'll get the herb wet and short out our dogs!
CurryLeafTreehugger
Well-Known Member
Well I thumbed-up 'em both, just to be sure.
Y'know we're mostly arguing about arguing at this point and I truly am mystified at pretty much all of it. I would benefit (and I suspect others as well) from a better understanding of just what the megavapes do other than waste a lot of herb (unless you're supplying a crowd, like the Volcano) that can't be had from a log vape.
What's so great about stupidly huge "clouds"? Why is one superginormous cloud better than say 3 merely large ones?
Y'know we're mostly arguing about arguing at this point and I truly am mystified at pretty much all of it. I would benefit (and I suspect others as well) from a better understanding of just what the megavapes do other than waste a lot of herb (unless you're supplying a crowd, like the Volcano) that can't be had from a log vape.
What's so great about stupidly huge "clouds"? Why is one superginormous cloud better than say 3 merely large ones?
arb
Semi shaved ape
Hold on............what do you mean by hose and what kind of spray?
Pease for the love of everything.......... no more science.
I'd say lets whip out Wangs and see who's "right" but...........mines on loan.
CurryLeafTreehugger
Well-Known Member
Just discussion, arb. Just discussion. Nobody has to channel Einstein.Hold on............what do you mean by hose and what kind of spray?
Pease for the love of everything.......... no more science.
I'd say lets whip out Wangs and see who's "right" but...........mines on loan.
Yet.
Alright discussion it is...
Rather than go with my normal wall-of-text I'm going to try a different approach and discuss things point by point before moving on. Hopefully this helps reduce confusion and lets us address specific subjects one at a time, hopefully without conflating them.
Lets start with this:
Everybody on board so far? Anyone want to disagree?
Rather than go with my normal wall-of-text I'm going to try a different approach and discuss things point by point before moving on. Hopefully this helps reduce confusion and lets us address specific subjects one at a time, hopefully without conflating them.
Lets start with this:
Voltage is not a useful point of comparison between vapes without the other variables that make up Ohm's Law.. wattage is the only practical metric by which we can make comparisons. To find out the wattage being used you can use a power supply that displays wattage or you can calculate it by multiplying the voltage and the current (amps) the device is using.
Voltage alone can't give us an accurate measure of performance any more than we could compare how fast our cars go by sharing what RPM we're driving at.
Everybody on board so far? Anyone want to disagree?
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CurryLeafTreehugger
Well-Known Member
Nope, totally with you. I have one comment, which is that for me, at least, I use the voltages as rough comparisons/marker points. I have no idea what temperature a particular voltage translates to, nor how accurate the display is. It doesn't really matter, as long as it is RELIABLE, eg when you plug your vape in it always behaves pretty much the same (with variations due to environmental temp and differences in herb) at a given "voltage" - as displayed.
With caveats related to failure of the VVPS or power supply ...
Yes indeed, that's pretty much how everyone is using their VVPS in practice and that is fine as long as nothing changes in your hardware and it's only ever used as a reference point to your specific gear and not someone elses.
That said you'd still be better off knowing the wattage even just internally for your own purposes as it would show you changes in the output of the heater both from a session standpoint (ie, the heater output drops slightly as it heats up) and over time (ie, heater output drops slowly over time as the resistance wire naturally degrades).
arb
Semi shaved ape
I have no idea a how this pertains to the subject at hand?
I'm trying to add some science to this wild pack of Dogs diet (hah science diet!) so that going forward I have a better foundation to explain the 'why' of things better.
As things are now I'm having a very hard time getting people to listen to me (and ideally understand) that voltage is not a useful performance comparison on it's own. I have a number of people arguing with me when I tell them things like 'your vape may run hotter at 10v than Bob's vape does at 14v' just to throw out a random example.
At this point I tell someone something like 'that vape definitely doesn't need xx.x voltage so that's not the problem and you're just damaging it' and I get back 'yeah well that's not what Bob is saying on reddit so maybe you should stfu and stop trying to con people into thinking 10v is hotter than 14v'.
arb
Semi shaved ape
Reddit.........they even out stoopided me there.I'm trying to add some science to this wild pack of Dogs diet (hah science diet!) so that going forward I have a better foundation to explain the 'why' of things better.
As things are now I'm having a very hard time getting people to listen to me (and ideally understand) that voltage is not a useful performance comparison on it's own. I have a number of people arguing with me when I tell them things like 'your vape may run hotter at 10v than Bob's vape does at 14v' just to throw out a random example.
At this point I tell someone something like 'that vape definitely doesn't need xx.x voltage so that's not the problem and you're just damaging it' and I get back 'yeah well that's not what Bob is saying on reddit so maybe you should stfu and stop trying to con people into thinking 10v is hotter than 14v'.
CurryLeafTreehugger
Well-Known Member
We run at 11.5,10.5 and 10.5 on our units wet or dry.
I have learned recently that what I considered spent is considered not spent by others.
So given the great variety of tastes and preferences more power seems a good choice.
We use one underdog Vvps and I run the others on my own power units.
All at the same setting regardless of supply.
I also fine grind and scoop load draw normally and set the dial to what works for you...........more cowbell.
I don't worry about mostly spent vs totally spent because I waterwash my ABV and use it AGAIN. It's sleepy making which is fine because that's what I want from MMJ most of the time. And I figure if I DIDN'T wring out every last drop of sleepy-making terpenes, I'll just get 'em later out of the ABV and in the meantime I can vape and enjoy without falling into a totally stoned sleep.
I'm trying to add some science to this wild pack of Dogs diet (hah science diet!) so that going forward I have a better foundation to explain the 'why' of things better.
As things are now I'm having a very hard time getting people to listen to me (and ideally understand) that voltage is not a useful performance comparison on it's own. I have a number of people arguing with me when I tell them things like 'your vape may run hotter at 10v than Bob's vape does at 14v' just to throw out a random example.
At this point I tell someone something like 'that vape definitely doesn't need xx.x voltage so that's not the problem and you're just damaging it' and I get back 'yeah well that's not what Bob is saying on reddit so maybe you should stfu and stop trying to con people into thinking 10v is hotter than 14v'.
I get it. And they're wrong, Voltage cannot by itself cannot tell you anything about actual heat output, as you say.
Amps x Volts = Watts
I don't actually know how many amps any of the dogs draw, they're not marked. I'm sure UD knows though. But even if amperage is known, you're assuming that the voltage displayed is accurate which is probably more or less true - but I don't think it is really necessary to have exact numbers, just relative comparisons among your own equipment ought to be fine.
So the advice SHOULD be that if your power supply or VVPS doesn't seem to get your dog hot enough, for whatever reason, it isn't capable of driving enough amperage to heat the device up sufficiently. If I had a spare I'd try that first and second I'd look for a more powerful VVPS. When I mentioned driving my alpha at 10.5, I INTENDED that to contrast with that other users report of topping out at 12. If you're having to turn it all the way up to 12 its either too high - and I could have sworn he posted pictures of burnt ABV with raw stuff mixed in but maybe that was somebody else - or your display is wildly inaccurate and you're not actually getting what it tells you. Or his dog actually does draw more amperage than the rest of us, which UD has said is the case for some of the early models. Actually the difference in the last two doesn't change the solution, which is get a more powerful VVPS.
Am I on track? Hopefully. But it HAS been more years ago since I took my last Electrical Engineering class than most of you guys have been alive.