Underdog Log Vapes

Sour Dream

Blue Dream enthusiast
My Alpha is on the way and I have expectations that it's a "hard hitter" but I have also never owned a log so I'm being cautiously optimistic. I'm really excited, I think it will well into my lineup and I will definitely share my thoughts (in the appropriate place) of how it compares to my other desktops which would be just as hard hitting as a flowerpot imo (though I haven't tried one of those either).

Also I have to mention, I have been thoroughly impressed with @underdog and @underdogette and their AAA customer service so far! I did not expect my order to ship last week so I was very surprised and happy to see it posted on Friday.
Looking forward to it the comparison and your thoughts.

I personally didn’t think it would outperform the flowerpot since that didn’t make sense, I thought it would kill it in another sense, just being so much more efficient and better looking. those are still my current expectations.

I’m still buying one if I’m lucky enough to be paying attention when they drop because I still want a beautiful vape that doesn’t look like an science experiment on my desk or kitchen island lmao.

So I still think the two vapes are in two different lanes and that’s good enough for me!

I appreciate all the discussion around this topic tho it was interesting and funny lol
 

GoldenBud

Well-Known Member
Looking forward to it the comparison and your thoughts.

I personally didn’t think it would outperform the flowerpot since that didn’t make sense, I thought it would kill it in another sense, just being so much more efficient and better looking. those are still my current expectations.

I’m still buying one if I’m lucky enough to be paying attention when they drop because I still want a beautiful vape that doesn’t look like an science experiment on my desk or kitchen island lmao.

So I still think the two vapes are in two different lanes and that’s good enough for me!

I appreciate all the discussion around this topic tho it was interesting and funny lol
exactly, the logs are meant to heavy hit with small amounts. the UD can work with 0.01g I think too....
 

Ripstar

Well-Known Member
The Alpha absolutely outperforms the weedeater and e43.
Not just for me but the wife as well so either we don't know how to use a coil driven vape or you fellas are the issue.
Any one that bought a Alpha unit on my recommendation and doesn't want it......shoot me a pm.
😁
Include me please! 😂
I think like any vape, there is a learning curve. I have been wondering what made it so easy to catch onto the Alpha:
1. the SC3+ core is very dialed in for a new log user. If you have a different core than the alpha, maybe use some awareness from that?
2. I would almost compare the middle core "toasting" to a TM. Solutions(temp, draw) are easily found(to me) by relating it to that. For first time users anyway
3. Each stem has a different personality, but usually, it's my draw speed that can really heat things up.
4. Water, water, water. Maybe attempt to see what a gong does then go to a direct glass then the SS?
5. Load size has everything to do with it(again, to me). It can be a microdosing machine or a HUGE hitter right on par with a Vapbong.

I know that sounds exhausting , I had some initial issues but after that? Cloudtown...I think the dialing it part is why I love Underdogs so much. It's truly a vape that is "yours".
 

BKR2311

Well-Known Member
Just found this thread and see that others are having similar issues. My Alpha just doesn't seem to have that oomph. My vvps only goes up to 12v, but it doesn't seem to be a heat issue. I don't run it through water so that might be one issue. The original big stems that came with it were extremely inconsistent. It just did NOT make a good seal. I finally ordered the Nylon one that goes inside the heater instead of around, and it is more consistent, but now it kinda seems like the smaller logs (I have an e nano).

Unfortunately I was also under the impression that this was going to be a massive cloud heavy hitter. Dave is the best so I don't want to send it back, but if anyone has any tips then feel free to lay it on me. Few things I do: I don't typically stir, and I usually fill the bowl decently. The big stem I'd fill about half way, and the stem I just got that goes inside I fill completely. I tried to microdose, but it just didn't produce much (if any) vapor at all. Maybe I should try half the Nylon stem? Not sure.

Should I get an adaptor and try it through water? I just don't want to keep going down the rabbit hole spending $$ if it won't make much of a difference. Little disappointing, enough that I've doubled down on trying to get my faulty TM up and running lately, but I truly love logs (my e nano is awesome).
 

CurryLeafTreehugger

Well-Known Member
It's way to early (for me) to start vaping, but my observations last night before hitting the hay are that both the SC3+ and the Alpha dog have considerably less restricted airflow.

If I had never used either core, I would have had (and in fact did not have, as reported here) any issue with the draw on my SC2, understand. With past UD updates to their technology, each heater core they have introduced has been an incremental improvement. But with the SC3+ and the alpha core, its a whole new chapter. The new cores are significant improvements.

Also (and I attribute this to the freer air flow) my ground herb DOES NOT PACK DOWN. I have been anxious to get a grinder that will grind more coarsely because of the issue of packing down in the SC2. This does not seem to be happening AT ALL with either core. I think I want more than just one nightly vaping session to tell for sure on that issue, but so far if I wanted to dump the ABV right after vaping, I have not had to stir to dump it out (which I ALWAYS had to do with the SC2 or else it just sat there packed into the stem).

I do not tamp my herb, I don't even suck it up into the straw. I scoop up a tiny bit of ground herb directly with the business end of the stem, then tap the bottom of the stem gently just a couple of times to settle it on the screen. I developed this habit to cut down on packing with the draw on the SC2. Didn't stop it but it did improve things.

It does not appear that this vaping habit is needed with these new heater cores. I'll try to remember to break this particular weed habit and see what happens.

Just found this thread and see that others are having similar issues. My Alpha just doesn't seem to have that oomph. My vvps only goes up to 12v, but it doesn't seem to be a heat issue. I don't run it through water so that might be one issue. The original big stems that came with it were extremely inconsistent. It just did NOT make a good seal. I finally ordered the Nylon one that goes inside the heater instead of around, and it is more consistent, but now it kinda seems like the smaller logs (I have an e nano).

Unfortunately I was also under the impression that this was going to be a massive cloud heavy hitter. Dave is the best so I don't want to send it back, but if anyone has any tips then feel free to lay it on me. Few things I do: I don't typically stir, and I usually fill the bowl decently. The big stem I'd fill about half way, and the stem I just got that goes inside I fill completely. I tried to microdose, but it just didn't produce much (if any) vapor at all. Maybe I should try half the Nylon stem? Not sure.

Should I get an adaptor and try it through water? I just don't want to keep going down the rabbit hole spending $$ if it won't make much of a difference. Little disappointing, enough that I've doubled down on trying to get my faulty TM up and running lately, but I truly love logs (my e nano is awesome).

Try it with a bong. When I see people blowing hugely ginormous clouds, they are ALWAYS using it through a bong. You can pack the bowl of a bong the same way you would if you were using a lighter as your heat source.

And you are definitely overpacking your stems. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong - I am pretty sure I have the least experience with weed equipment and procedures around here - but those stems aren't intended for ginormous loads. I think you can get bigger loads in a bong bowl though. It sure looks like it and I was loading normal pipe-loads into my bong when I was still using it, which is way way way WAY more than I have ever even TRIED to load into a stem.
 
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BKR2311

Well-Known Member
It's way to early (for me) to start vaping, but my observations last night before hitting the hay are that both the SC3+ and the Alpha dog have considerably less restricted airflow.

If I had never used either core, I would have had (and in fact did not have, as reported here) any issue with the draw on my SC2, understand. With past UD updates to their technology, each heater core they have introduced has been an incremental improvement. But with the SC3+ and the alpha core, its a whole new chapter. The new cores are significant improvements.

Also (and I attribute this to the freer air flow) my ground herb DOES NOT PACK DOWN. I have been anxious to get a grinder that will grind more coarsely because of the issue of packing down in the SC2. This does not seem to be happening AT ALL with either core. I think I want more than just one nightly vaping session to tell for sure on that issue, but so far if I wanted to dump the ABV right after vaping, I have not had to stir to dump it out (which I ALWAYS had to do with the SC2 or else it just sat there packed into the stem).

I do not tamp my herb, I don't even suck it up into the straw. I scoop up a tiny bit of ground herb directly with the business end of the stem, then tap the bottom of the stem gently just a couple of times to settle it on the screen. I developed this habit to cut down on packing with the draw on the SC2. Didn't stop it but it did improve things.

It does not appear that this vaping habit is needed with these new heater cores. I'll try to remember to break this particular weed habit and see what happens.



Try it with a bong. When I see people blowing hugely ginormous clouds, they are ALWAYS using it through a bong. You can pack the bowl of a bong the same way you would if you were using a lighter as your heat source.

And you are definitely overpacking your stems. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong - I am pretty sure I have the least experience with weed equipment and procedures around here - but those stems aren't intended for ginormous loads. I think you can get bigger loads in a bong bowl though. It sure looks like it and I was loading normal pipe-loads into my bong when I was still using it, which is way way way WAY more than I have ever even TRIED to load into a stem.
The problem is when I don't pack my stems, the vapor is very low. Very, very, very low. One thing that bothers me is that it's basically impossible to combust. I know this should be good, but it kinda limits myself in terms of extraction. Is this the same for you guys? Like I can get the very top darker brown, but that's about it. The rest is usually a lighter brown.
 
BKR2311,

CurryLeafTreehugger

Well-Known Member
The problem is when I don't pack my stems, the vapor is very low. Very, very, very low. One thing that bothers me is that it's basically impossible to combust. I know this should be good, but it kinda limits myself in terms of extraction. Is this the same for you guys? Like I can get the very top darker brown, but that's about it. The rest is usually a lighter brown.

I think this is a result of differing expectations. I didn't think I was blowing clouds at all - until recently, the sun is changing its angle and setting time at the SW corner of my house, where I have ONE window with the curtains lowered to let light in at the top. And in the sun light streaming through that one window in the late afternoon, after a single draw, there was a huge and obviously visible cloud hanging there in the air, gently swirling in the air currents in the house. I sat there and watched that cloud for at least 15 or 20 minutes, until the sun had moved.

So I think you are blowing larger clouds than you think.

We'll wait and see what more informed people than me have to say about bongs and cloud size and stem load size, but I think you will be much happier drawing through a bong to reach your end goal. And maybe a "half-full" stem isn't as full as I think - maybe post a picture of a typical load? Probably easier to see in a glass stem even if you aren't using the glass much.

As for combusting, that is something I actively avoid. If I combust, I have the heat too high or the herb is too dry. Actually, probably both. Can't think of a time recently at least, where I didn't end up on 12v combusting my herb because I had inadvertently let it dry out.

I do think this is an issue that doesn't get talked about a lot - hydration of your herb. In my experience with the various UD versions I've had over the years, overly dry herb will almost always combust by the time you crank the heat up enough to get it to vape at all. Either you end up repeatedly drawing at a lower temp or you risk rapid combustion at the higher temp. Living in the High Sierra Desert region (as I do), my herb ALWAYS comes out of the dispensary dry as bone. It takes about a week with Boveda paks to rehydrate the nugs, about 3 days if I pregrind. I swap the Boveda paks out ever couple of days with new-from-the-dispensary herb and keep rotating freshly charged paks until it settles.

As long as my herb is fully hydrated - I use the 62% Boveda paks - I can run my vapes at around 10.8ish (SC2, Tekpower VVPS), 10.6ish (Alpha, Tekpower) and 9.4 (SC3+ on UDs VVPS). I may still need to tweak the SC3+ up a bit, but it was running super duper I didn't want to pick it up hot on 10.5V on the UD provided VVPS. And I tolerate more heat when handling things than anyone I have ever known in my entire life, so it was HOT at that setting. If I have to start turning the voltage up, more than just a notch, that is always a sign that my herb is drying out and if I ignore that sign it will eventually get all the way up to 12v and I end up with combustion in the center and a ring around the edges that is unvaped.
 
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sydryherb

Well-Known Member
For as pricy as these units are, being told things like “your clouds are bigger than you think!” and “the light colored material is normal” feels like a slap in the face. It feels bad to say too, because the people at Underdog are wonderfully supportive, but I feel like Arb is doing them a huge disservice by misrepresenting their product so hard on practically every vaporizer social media platform available. Here we have the company telling us flat out “this device will not compete with a Flowerpot”, and yet Arb doubles down to tell us the Alpha is more powerful than the e43 and weedeater. If people knew what to truly expect with this device, I don’t think we’d have this many disappointed users from the previous drop.
 

CurryLeafTreehugger

Well-Known Member
For as pricy as these units are, being told things like “your clouds are bigger than you think!” and “the light colored material is normal” feels like a slap in the face. It feels bad to say too, because the people at Underdog are wonderfully supportive, but I feel like Arb is doing them a huge disservice by misrepresenting their product so hard on practically every vaporizer social media platform available. Here we have the company telling us flat out “this device will not compete with a Flowerpot”, and yet Arb doubles down to tell us the Alpha is more powerful than the e43 and weedeater. If people knew what to truly expect with this device, I don’t think we’d have this many disappointed users from the previous drop.

I can't recall anybody saying light colored material is normal. It is something we all dial in on though.

As far as characterizing my last post as a "slap in the face", you need to work on your reading comprehension. I ALSO said that we are dealing with differing expectations here, as has been clear throughout this particular chapter in UD history, and that that poster would likely be happier using it through a bong.

If you feel "slapped in the face" over that, I suggest you're too sensitive.

As well, dumping on arb is totally uncalled for. He loves his dogs. I totally understand why. For us, THEY ARE MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH better than anything else we've owned. Arb reports his experience. Whether or not you want to share that experience is beside the point.
 

BKR2311

Well-Known Member
I think this is a result of differing expectations. I didn't think I was blowing clouds at all - until recently, the sun is changing its angle and setting time at the SW corner of my house, where I have ONE window with the curtains lowered to let light in at the top. And in the sun light streaming through that one window in the late afternoon, after a single draw, there was a huge and obviously visible cloud hanging there in the air, gently swirling in the air currents in the house. I sat there and watched that cloud for at least 15 or 20 minutes, until the sun had moved.

So I think you are blowing larger clouds than you think.

We'll wait and see what more informed people than me have to say about bongs and cloud size and stem load size, but I think you will be much happier drawing through a bong to reach your end goal. And maybe a "half-full" stem isn't as full as I think - maybe post a picture of a typical load? Probably easier to see in a glass stem even if you aren't using the glass much.

As for combusting, that is something I actively avoid. If I combust, I have the heat too high or the herb is too dry. Actually, probably both. Can't think of a time recently at least, where I didn't end up on 12v combusting my herb because I had inadvertently let it dry out.

I do think this is an issue that doesn't get talked about a lot - hydration of your herb. In my experience with the various UD versions I've had over the years, overly dry herb will almost always combust by the time you crank the heat up enough to get it to vape at all. Either you end up repeatedly drawing at a lower temp or you risk rapid combustion at the higher temp. Living in the High Sierra Desert region (as I do), my herb ALWAYS comes out of the dispensary dry as bone. It takes about a week with Boveda paks to rehydrate the nugs, about 3 days if I pregrind. I swap the Boveda paks out ever couple of days with new-from-the-dispensary herb and keep rotating freshly charged paks until it settles.

As long as my herb is fully hydrated - I use the 62% Boveda paks - I can run my vapes at around 10.8ish (SC2, Tekpower VVPS), 10.6ish (Alpha, Tekpower) and 9.4 (SC3+ on UDs VVPS). I may still need to tweak the SC3+ up a bit, but it was running super duper I didn't want to pick it up hot on 10.5V on the UD provided VVPS. And I tolerate more heat when handling things than anyone I have ever known in my entire life, so it was HOT at that setting. If I have to start turning the voltage up, more than just a notch, that is always a sign that my herb is drying out and if I ignore that sign it will eventually get all the way up to 12v and I end up with combustion in the center and a ring around the edges that is unvaped.
So a few things.. I vape at the same spot, so I know how much clouds I'm getting. As for combusting, I don't want to combust, but the fact that it's impossible to kinda bothers me a bit and seems like something is wrong. Someone told me to "just cover screen", and it just doesn't produce vapor with that little. Idk, there's not much I can say that I'm doing "wrong".

My other logs I can at least take back to back hits. The Alpha needs at least a few minutes, if not longer, to take another full hit. Kinda defeats the purpose of getting a heavy hitting log, no?
 

underdog

shade-tree vapor engineer
Manufacturer
So a few things.. I vape at the same spot, so I know how much clouds I'm getting. As for combusting, I don't want to combust, but the fact that it's impossible to kinda bothers me a bit and seems like something is wrong. Someone told me to "just cover screen", and it just doesn't produce vapor with that little. Idk, there's not much I can say that I'm doing "wrong".

My other logs I can at least take back to back hits. The Alpha needs at least a few minutes, if not longer, to take another full hit. Kinda defeats the purpose of getting a heavy hitting log, no?

Are your screens in the stock positions or have they been moved?

Can you post a pic of the stem after vaping so we can see what it looks like?

If you're not getting the ABV as dark as you want then you can add more power.. I suspect another .2v or .3v would make all the difference. Send us a message or email and we'll help you get there.
 

arb

Semi shaved ape

For as pricy as these units are, being told things like “your clouds are bigger than you think!” and “the light colored material is normal” feels like a slap in the face. It feels bad to say too, because the people at Underdog are wonderfully supportive, but I feel like Arb is doing them a huge disservice by misrepresenting their product so hard on practically every vaporizer social media platform available. Here we have the company telling us flat out “this device will not compete with a Flowerpot”, and yet Arb doubles down to tell us the Alpha is more powerful than the e43 and weedeater. If people knew what to truly expect with this device, I don’t think we’d have this many disappointed users from the previous drop.
If you are unhappy with your Alpha based on my recommendation send me a pm and I will fix your issue.
 

vaporculture

Well-Known Member
The problem is when I don't pack my stems, the vapor is very low. Very, very, very low. One thing that bothers me is that it's basically impossible to combust. I know this should be good, but it kinda limits myself in terms of extraction. Is this the same for you guys? Like I can get the very top darker brown, but that's about it. The rest is usually a lighter brown.
These dogs may take a bit of time to figure out, but if your equipment is fully functional, you should be able to get very satisfying results from using it. I'm not going to compare devices, but for efficiency married to thick, tasy vapor, these are top notch.

If the log is fully heat-soaked (15-30 minutes from cold, 30 seconds - 2 minutes after a big draw) and you can't get the top super roasty even when the VVPS is turned all the way up, then you need more power. If your VVPS is turned all the way up and you are still limited on the top end then you're not getting the full, necessary voltage to control the temp. Unfortunately, if this is the case, you may need a new VVPS that can give you more volts.

Each of these dogs will have slight differences in terms of voltage requirements to maintain core heat at the right level for use. The metal tipped stems will require less heat to fully extract, the glass stems require more.

The glass stems will give you mostly covection. The metal tipped stems will yield a balance of convection and conduction.

When you are using a stem that goes around the core, you have to direct the heat by rotating it on a slight angle to "point" the heat to the sides and not just the middle while you are drawing. This is because the heat will come out of the core much like a jet of flame would, mostly centered and narrowed compared to the circumference of the core tube it exits from.

When you are using a tip that fits inside the core tube, you may want to heat soak the tip for a few seconds before beginning your draw.

As far as loading goes, the metal tipped stems are basically one-hitters. The Alpha, with a bigger heater and a larger diameter core tube, is capable of bigger one-hitter hits. Just covering the screen isn't the right amount -- but it isn't packing it mostly full either. So if you are looking for a vape you can load to the brim, and nurse it from time to time getting great flavor and big clouds for the whole bowl, this vape isn't it. With the glass stems you can definitely put more in, and get fairly tasty hits as you make it through, but stirring is required, and as far as I'm concerned, loading enough for a big hit or two, and no more, will result in much better, denser, tastier hits.

The experience of metal tipped vs glass stems is wholly different. They require different heat to vaporize the herb, and different techniques.

The genius of the Underdog is that the core holds heat 24/7 and then can release that heat and vaporize a big lungful very efficiently. I've been using them for many years, and have not found anything capable of making so much from so little. In fact, packing the metal tipped stems lightly, so the hot air can flow in and around the chunks of herb, and making sure to put in just enough to fully vaporize in one large, lung-busting draw, will yield very tasty, very cloudy, very effective vapor.

I have adopted a bunch of stray dogs in my life -- at the beginning, while we're still getting to know one another, I have to try and meet the dog where it's at, working on communication and building trust. After time, and work/experimentation/fun, I know what to expect and how to illicit the response I want in any given situation. Adopting an Underdog is not that much different. Give it some time, and work on the basics and pretty soon it will be licking your face.

> Pack lightly, and only enough for one big draw (or two medium size ones) -- try not tamping, or only lightly in the metal tipped stems.
> Make sure the herb is dry enough to vape fully on the first go. Wetter bud will need multiple passes to dry out before it releases satisfying vapor. It will still be tasty, just not as thick.
> Experiment with draw speed, try to start slow and pull harder towards the end of hit. Then try the opposite.
> Experiment with temp/voltage -- adjust depending on what kind of tip you're using.
> Try to have fun experimenting. Remember, life is only as good as what you put in to it. Feel the wood, the warmth, and the love that went into it. These are meant to be well loved and well used, so be open to success rather than afraid that it's not working the way you want.
 

BKR2311

Well-Known Member
Are your screens in the stock positions or have they been moved?

Can you post a pic of the stem after vaping so we can see what it looks like?

If you're not getting the ABV as dark as you want then you can add more power.. I suspect another .2v or .3v would make all the difference. Send us a message or email and we'll help you get there.
Hey Dave, hope you're doing well. This is Nick if you remember.

In the stock positions. I tried moving one and it performed much worse so I left the others stock. I'm using the VVPS dual that you sent me actually and it's been much better than the original it came with. Hasn't gone "cold" again. It does seem like it could use a little more power. I loved the big stems but they just don't seem to make a good enough seal to always give consistent hits. I can shoot you an email later on if you want to give me some ideas. I didn't want to waste any more of your time so that's why I never emailed after that.
 

CurryLeafTreehugger

Well-Known Member
So a few things.. I vape at the same spot, so I know how much clouds I'm getting. As for combusting, I don't want to combust, but the fact that it's impossible to kinda bothers me a bit and seems like something is wrong. Someone told me to "just cover screen", and it just doesn't produce vapor with that little. Idk, there's not much I can say that I'm doing "wrong".

My other logs I can at least take back to back hits. The Alpha needs at least a few minutes, if not longer, to take another full hit. Kinda defeats the purpose of getting a heavy hitting log, no?

All I can say is, if you are doing EVERYTHING we have suggested - that includes not overloading the stems, making sure your herb is properly hydrated, and how to load the stem and everything else that has been suggested that I can't remember - and you are STILL not getting decent results, THEN there may be something wrong with either the dog or the VVPS.

I'm pretty sure that has been the consensus all along here.

If you actually CAN'T get it to combust, then yes, there is something wrong. I apologize if I didn't make that clear, but that WAS the intent of that paragraph about what I have to do to NOT combust. I don't remember who all I've responded to recently so somewhere (I would suggest) our wires got crossed, but I'm pretty sure I suggested to SOMEBODY here recently that they might want to check out the functionality of the VVPS. If that wasn't you, then I'm making that suggestion directly TO you now.

There could also be something wrong with the dog itself but they are pretty simple (compared to a VVPS at least) and it seems more likely, if you CANNOT combust, that the fault lies with the VVPS.

Which reminds me, I meant to swap my dogs so Agni (SC3+) is on my Tekpower and the Alpha is on the UD VVPS to see how they compare. The UD VVPS seems to be running hotter at the same voltage setting I usually used on my Tekpower, but to tell whether the difference is in the dog or the VVPS I'll need to switch them and see how the settings might change. I'll do that now. It doesn't really matter for our purposes how accurate the VVPS is as long as it is stable at any given setting. My UD VVPS seems to be running hotter at the same settings as my Tekpower, I need to switch it TO the Tekpower and see what the setting is there to tell. Maybe your VVPS is running cooler or somehow else malfunctioning.
 
CurryLeafTreehugger,
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BKR2311

Well-Known Member
These dogs may take a bit of time to figure out, but if your equipment is fully functional, you should be able to get very satisfying results from using it. I'm not going to compare devices, but for efficiency married to thick, tasy vapor, these are top notch.

If the log is fully heat-soaked (15-30 minutes from cold, 30 seconds - 2 minutes after a big draw) and you can't get the top super roasty even when the VVPS is turned all the way up, then you need more power. If your VVPS is turned all the way up and you are still limited on the top end then you're not getting the full, necessary voltage to control the temp. Unfortunately, if this is the case, you may need a new VVPS that can give you more volts.

Each of these dogs will have slight differences in terms of voltage requirements to maintain core heat at the right level for use. The metal tipped stems will require less heat to fully extract, the glass stems require more.

The glass stems will give you mostly covection. The metal tipped stems will yield a balance of convection and conduction.

When you are using a stem that goes around the core, you have to direct the heat by rotating it on a slight angle to "point" the heat to the sides and not just the middle while you are drawing. This is because the heat will come out of the core much like a jet of flame would, mostly centered and narrowed compared to the circumference of the core tube it exits from.

When you are using a tip that fits inside the core tube, you may want to heat soak the tip for a few seconds before beginning your draw.

As far as loading goes, the metal tipped stems are basically one-hitters. The Alpha, with a bigger heater and a larger diameter core tube, is capable of bigger one-hitter hits. Just covering the screen isn't the right amount -- but it isn't packing it mostly full either. So if you are looking for a vape you can load to the brim, and nurse it from time to time getting great flavor and big clouds for the whole bowl, this vape isn't it. With the glass stems you can definitely put more in, and get fairly tasty hits as you make it through, but stirring is required, and as far as I'm concerned, loading enough for a big hit or two, and no more, will result in much better, denser, tastier hits.

The experience of metal tipped vs glass stems is wholly different. They require different heat to vaporize the herb, and different techniques.

The genius of the Underdog is that the core holds heat 24/7 and then can release that heat and vaporize a big lungful very efficiently. I've been using them for many years, and have not found anything capable of making so much from so little. In fact, packing the metal tipped stems lightly, so the hot air can flow in and around the chunks of herb, and making sure to put in just enough to fully vaporize in one large, lung-busting draw, will yield very tasty, very cloudy, very effective vapor.

I have adopted a bunch of stray dogs in my life -- at the beginning, while we're still getting to know one another, I have to try and meet the dog where it's at, working on communication and building trust. After time, and work/experimentation/fun, I know what to expect and how to illicit the response I want in any given situation. Adopting an Underdog is not that much different. Give it some time, and work on the basics and pretty soon it will be licking your face.

> Pack lightly, and only enough for one big draw (or two medium size ones) -- try not tamping, or only lightly in the metal tipped stems.
> Make sure the herb is dry enough to vape fully on the first go. Wetter bud will need multiple passes to dry out before it releases satisfying vapor. It will still be tasty, just not as thick.
> Experiment with draw speed, try to start slow and pull harder towards the end of hit.
> Experiment with temp/voltage -- adjust depending on what kind of tip you're using.
> Try to have fun experimenting. Remember, life is only as good as what you put in to it. Feel the wood, the warmth, and the love that went into it. These are meant to be well loved and well used, so be open to success rather than afraid that it's not working the way you want.
First off sorry for not multi quoting and posting back to back. I can't figure out how to fix it now that I've already replied to Dave.

But anyways, I'd love a powerful one hitter. It just isn't it. It doesn't have the power to blast one hit off and roast it til it's done. Actually the less herb, the less it even works. I haven't tried microdosing in the smaller nylon stem yet, but the big stems just won't microdose for me.

I don't really like to just vape til brown/light brown, I want to be able to extract fully. I will keep playing with it and taking suggestions, definitely not giving up on this dog. It's made beautifully and you can tell the passion that went into it.
 

underdog

shade-tree vapor engineer
Manufacturer
Hey Dave, hope you're doing well. This is Nick if you remember.

In the stock positions. I tried moving one and it performed much worse so I left the others stock. I'm using the VVPS dual that you sent me actually and it's been much better than the original it came with. Hasn't gone "cold" again. It does seem like it could use a little more power. I loved the big stems but they just don't seem to make a good enough seal to always give consistent hits. I can shoot you an email later on if you want to give me some ideas. I didn't want to waste any more of your time so that's why I never emailed after that.

Heya Nick, thanks for the info on the screens.. glad you figured out right way that they're in a good default location. 😁

Ok you're using the double that's good to know, thanks. What is the max voltage it's putting out for you?

Those first released Alphas needed a smidge more juice than the current batch so I think we just need to help you feed it a bit more. With the right wattage and decent material and technique it'll definitely cash a stem in one big go once dialed in. :cheers:
 

BKR2311

Well-Known Member
Heya Nick, thanks for the info on the screens.. glad you figured out right way that they're in a good default location. 😁

Ok you're using the double that's good to know, thanks. What is the max voltage it's putting out for you?

Those first released Alphas needed a smidge more juice than the current batch so I think we just need to help you feed it a bit more. With the right wattage and decent material and technique it'll definitely cash a stem in one big go once dialed in. :cheers:
That's definitely what it seems like. It goes up to 12.1ish, and it seems like its riiiiiight there, just not quite. Definitely going to keep at it though. The nicest piece I have for sure
 

underdog

shade-tree vapor engineer
Manufacturer
That's definitely what it seems like. It goes up to 12.1ish, and it seems like its riiiiiight there, just not quite. Definitely going to keep at it though. The nicest piece I have for sure

Send me an email and I'll get you sorted with some more power.. the double eats up a bit on it's own too so could stand more itself.
 

CurryLeafTreehugger

Well-Known Member
And now for something COMPLETELY different ...

Lets talk wood care. This is something I have heretofore paid only minor attention to. When I took pictures of my pack last night, I was shocked to see how much color difference there was between the top and bottom of my Tiger Vaple SC2.

What has happened is that the newer cores (newer than the air core I had before or the econodog which I think was also an air core) do not heat the entire vape body. My original dogs were pretty much warm from top to bottom. I actually used to use them as heated massage devices - well not massage actually but I would use it to ease things like a crick in my neck, stuff like that. But starting with the Tiger Vaple, with the heat restricted to a few inches at the top, its really not suited to things like that (not really FOR that anyway). But I didn't realize this had other consequences (besides not charring the wood or avoiding damage to the electrical connections).

So when putting the underbutter on, it didn't melt into the cooler wood the way it did where the wood was warmed. So over time, the lower part of the body wasn't getting its biscuits buttered as well as the upper part and it started to be a bit more dried out.

Also it suddenly occurred to me (as I was working on buttering up the lower half of my Tiger Vaple) that I have NEVER buttered the inner part of the body, where the heater core is, because it is almost always on. So I'm buttering that up now as well.

To compensate for the cooler temp, I have been twisting the lower part of the body (with butter on it obviously. not real butter butter of course but Underbutter which seems to be mostly beeswax) around and around in my hand to build up friction. This does seem to help the Underbutter melt into the surface and it is looking better already.

The finish on my new dogs is silky smooth and I want to protect them both. Both have flaws in the wood (observation not complaint, these are not serious and were obvious in pictures) - eg knots, and cracking goes along with knots. So I plan to pay extra attention to those areas.

What do you guys do to care for the wood body itself? I typically like mineral oil because it is food safe (and most of my wooden tools are some kind of kitchen implement or a musical instrument) but that isn't something you can easily wipe on something like a vape body, I like mineral oil because it soaks in well and when I use it I actually like to set whatever I'm oiling in a pool of the stuff and just turn it every couple of days to keep it well covered. I have, in the past, used a piece of PVC pipe with a cap glued to one end and a screw cap on the other, fill it with mineral oil, and just drop my wooden flutes in it and let them soak. I actually need to do that real soon as I've neglected my flutes for about 4 years here - in the desert.

But anyway you can't do that with a UD. And these new pack members have such perfect finishes and look so nice that I don't want to take chances with them. I want to treat them right.
 

underdog

shade-tree vapor engineer
Manufacturer
@CurryLeafTreehugger - the underbutter is a mineral oil beeswax mix and you can soften it a bit to make it easier to apply by putting the tin somewhere warm for a bit (have to experiment to find the right temp/time) or you can scoop some or all of it out into a glass container and microwave it to soften it. If you do the microwave thing and want to make it stay softer and more oily you can add a tablespoon (of mineral oil) or two to it while it's melted and stir it together well.. when it cools it'll be considerably softer. :cheers:
 

GraniteState420

Well-Known Member
is anyone found that they only get consistent results over 12 volts? Anything under 12 volts seems to cool down too fast during a hit even with a very verrrry slow inhale. I saw one person get frothy milk at 11.1 volts, but for me 11.1 volts wont even emit much vapor and will definitely not cook the bowl. very confused about the voltages.
I may be wrong, Dave would know for sure, but I was having similar issues with my Alpha a few months ago. I couldn't figure it out, so switched to another power supply, actually the one for my Woodscents, and boom....milking glass all day long at 10.8-11.1....all dials will vary, same on the enano, but this was the fix for me.

The Alpha absolutely outperforms the weedeater and e43.
Not just for me but the wife as well so either we don't know how to use a coil driven vape or you fellas are the issue.
Any one that bought a Alpha unit on my recommendation and doesn't want it......shoot me a pm.
😁
I'm in too....if you fellas are looking to sell, shoot me a message

Personally, I feel it's the dozens to hundreds of statements like the above that's causing the 'misunderstanding'. And these are actually the milder ones lol. Another member mentioned being sold on the FlowerPot killer statement. I'm sure there are tons more lol.

If you noticed, the manufacturer already confirmed that enail based desktops shouldn't even be compared to any logs in general. His actual words were, "it'll not compete well". "Apples and oranges". Thats big in manufacturer language. I own both multiple logs and multiple enail based models and can confirm the same. Even when I didn't own them all, I knew these are different category machines. The extra power is exactly why people put up with the extra safety risks.

I know you love your UDs but comparisons gotta be realistic mate. I'd love to own a UD someday but when I get it, I'll treat it as a log vape. Won't be comparing it to something else 10++ times it's size in power. Just not a fair fight brother. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Respectfully, I was with you until the end when you mentioned you don't have a UD. I don't own a flowerpot, but will say my alpha outperforms my E43
 

Vapefanatic

Well-Known Member
Respectfully, I was with you until the end when you mentioned you don't have a UD. I don't own a flowerpot, but will say my alpha outperforms my E43
Not sure why my post was singled out among others but I'll take it as a compliment or perhaps a nail hit someone, somewhere. You are free to make the comparisons you want to, mate. Pretty sure I'm not the person you need to convince. My post had absolutely nothing to do on whether I have an Alpha or not? You can read it again if you haven't. So i have no clue what your first sentence even means?

I only quoted the manufacturer and my post was wholly based on that. So if you disagree with me, I already apologised shortly after for not minding my own business. Perhaps you should forward your points to the manufacturer, instead of me? It originated from him after all. I was just trying to help avoid the same misunderstanding from happening again, by stating the obvious and quoting the manufacturer. If even that is wrong of me, I guess I'm sorry again?

I'll mind my own business from now on. Have fun. Moving on…
 
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