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Vaporizer efficiency question relating to water filtration

Discussion in 'Vaporization Discussion' started by marijuana_user, Feb 17, 2012.

  1. marijuana_user

    marijuana_user Member

    Messages:
    1
    I've heard it mentioned that water filtration can possibly cause some potency loss when combusting, it would seem to me that it would be similar or even more so in a vapor situation, seeing that the state of the active ingredients of the bud is so similar to the state of the water in which it's being pulled through. Does a lot of vapor get absorbed in the water? I'm sure someone's tested their vaporizer water pipe rig both wet and dry, does it seem to make a noticeable difference in potency?
     
  2. SD_haze

    SD_haze Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,324
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Like dissolves like.

    Water is polar

    THC is nonpolar
    Fats are nonpolar
    Alcohol is nonpolar

    So no there is not a very noticeable decrease in potency like you would get vaping with a bong filled with vodka.

    That being said, of course there is some minor vapor condensation. It's not nothing
    However, this is often offset by the fact that you can take larger hits and hold them in longer. For me, this aspect allows me to get even higher using water filtration.
    (Its ideal to hold in vapor 6-10 seconds, longer than smoke, because it absorbs slower)
     
    Tweak, t-dub and Havelock Vetenari like this.
  3. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    16,044
    Location:
    Arcadia, California

    Ditto. Using a PD thru a mini-beaker filled with VERY warm water, for me...........is the absolute best.
     
  4. Smokey

    Smokey Cloud Master

    Messages:
    280
    I always loved water filtration and cooling, I used it for the smoke, with bongs...I use it now with vapor, with the herborizer. The draw it's so smooth, no particles, chill vapor that I can keep down as much as I wish...I would never go back. Ice cold water filtration ftw
     
  5. weedemon

    weedemon enthusiast

    Messages:
    2,831
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    I think running the vapor though a bubbler system will reduce the potency of the hit.

    why?

    because you have introduces a decent surface area for the vapor to condense and collect on. (this is why we have to clean our glass!)

    the hit though water is also easier to take, but I do believe that a direct hit is more potent.
     
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  6. Nycdeisel

    Nycdeisel Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,949
    Location:
    nyc
    I love the experience and effect i get from vaporbonging, i have vaped dry a lot as well. The benefits to me(cool, moistened vapor that does not irritate my airways like dry vapor often does) outweigh the very small amount that you may lose to water.

    I totally agree with SD_haze!
     
    JJ420, ou812?, ogcook and 2 others like this.
  7. scottio19

    scottio19 scotty

    Messages:
    187
    Location:
    Bay Area, California
    My friend has a pipe with a very long airpath and it's less efficient than most bongs I have used.
    I wonder if glass actually condenses more thc per surface area of contact than water. Could the long airpath of most bongs be the main culprit of lost actives?
     
  8. jackmormon

    jackmormon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    274
    Location:
    Big Love
    My experience is that the vapor condenses on anything that is cooler than the vapor. Any glass exposed to the vapor will have visible condensation after a few vape sessions. Perc areas containing water will have less condensation than the dry areas. Many people will clean with ISO and evaporate it into a kind of hash/concentrate that is very good. This tells me the condensation is partly cannabinoids and some loss of hit potency. I have never noticed any change in the water that would visibly indicate anything is condensing in it. But, I learned my lesson and never leave water in a piece for more than a day or two. Extended use of the same water may show something??

    For me, the cooling down and moisturizing of the vapor is worth any loss on the glass. I was a smoker for 25 years and I am sure that makes a difference. I used to do gravity bongs at 20.....Doing one now would probably kill me :uhoh:
     
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  9. technique

    technique Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    231
    Vapor cools on its way through wands and glass pipes and causes wand hash. It stands to reason that the water would cool it much faster and there for turn it into a solid form stopping us being able to inhale it.

    Its more a case of preference, clearly many people love their water filters despite knowing they will lose some potency. It all comes down how you prefer to vape
     
    ou812? likes this.
  10. Egzoset

    Egzoset Banned

    Messages:
    3,086
    Location:
    Qc/Can
    Hi,

    Since there's mention of condensation, that makes me think of some Arizer Solo glass stems when used with my HerbalAire... The glass tubes are burning-hot near the HA oven and safe for the lips on their other end. If temperature alone was the explanation for condensation deposits then my glass stems should be pristine clean near the bowl while the other end would be sticky with golden goo. Well, i observe just the opposite, so...

    I'd be curious to read some rational explanation about this! And more...

    [​IMG]

    A better understanding of such phenomenons might shead some light on what's going on in my own water-toy concept when the cannabis vapour only goes through fog (from a Mist Maker) instead of water:

    [​IMG]
    Mist Maker generated Fog in 3-way convertible Water Toy

    [​IMG]
    Next Generation Vaporizer Fantasy

    Take a look at the way those deposits spread out after some time:

    [​IMG]

    :peace:
     
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  11. pkim87

    pkim87 Member

    Messages:
    13
    I don't think there's much difference with water-filtered vapor and pure vapor in terms of potency, but there are two reasons I prefer to vape dry with my MFLB..

    1) Taste: In my experiences, I get about half the taste (or even less) when I use my MFLB with a water bong. This might be because I connect the MFLB to the bong with a silicone whip. For me, taste is the most important part of the pleasurable experience I get from vaping compared to combusting.

    2) Convenience: Less things to set up and clean. Less things to handle and be careful with.

    The one positive I get from vaping through a water bong is the decreased amount of irritation on the throat, but that reason alone is not enough to make me sacrifice the superb taste I get when I vape directly from the MFLB.
     
    215z likes this.
  12. gn0me

    gn0me gnonsensical Manufacturer

    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Golden, CO
    Taste is actually a good reason to use water filtration sometimes - when you cut down on the harshness of the hit, sometimes the fainter herbal notes come through better. In some ways it's like having your taste buds less distracted by the harshness and more able to discern the different flavors you're experiencing. If you think a MFLB is a great taste, I'd urge you to try something glass-on-glass, especially with very light water filtration using water that's either bottled or been left out for a few hours/boiled so the chlorine gas taste goes away.
     
    Egzoset likes this.
  13. OO

    OO Technical Skeptical

    Messages:
    1,167
    Location:
    Paraphernalia Museum
    without going into too much detail, potency is reduced by condensing the vapor, that being said more vapor will be condensed with a longer vapor path, as well as the addition of water and the use of materials with high thermal conductivity.

    in general terms the thermal conductivity looks like this
    metals>ceramics (glass)> woods and plastics
    lowering the temperature of the air lowers the amount of active cannabinoid vapor the air can carry before becoming saturated.

    past the peak saturation point, the air is saturated and condensation occurs.

    specifically to your case ezgo, the point in your device where condensation is occurring is a pinch, the air has alot of space to allow the vapor particles freedom of motion prior to the pinch, at the pinch, the vapor is forced into tight proximity. it's easy to imagine that buildup would occur there.

    BTW, the reason the glass is so hot closer to the vape is because the vapor is heating it.

    as vapor condenses, heat is released.
     
    Tweak likes this.
  14. Egzoset

    Egzoset Banned

    Messages:
    3,086
    Location:
    Qc/Can
    Hi,

    I see a sudden transition where the whip connects which corresponds to a "pinch" but what about the other major transition between air and water?... There's got to be some common feature here, right?

    :peace:
     
  15. Ganjafly

    Ganjafly Member

    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    europe ,maybe in Italy.
    using my EQV i have noticed a better taste using it reducing the glass surface to the minimum when the vapor come out you must immediately hydratate it like cloud do.
     
  16. zymos

    zymos Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,077
    2 out of 3 aint bad.

    Alcohols ARE polar. If they weren't, your vodka would separate into water and ethanol....
     
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  17. SD_haze

    SD_haze Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,324
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    ah ha, you are very right

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Bouldorado

    Bouldorado Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,221
    Location:
    CO
    I agree. In my bubbler, I've noticed resin tends to accumulate more above the waterline than below.
     
  19. highthere

    highthere Member

    Messages:
    5
    Does that mean there's an optimal amount of water to filter through? After reading this thread I'm wondering if an inline downstem + two tree percs might be doing more harm than good.
     
  20. SD_haze

    SD_haze Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,324
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    for light/medium hitting vaporizers just an inline would probably be optimal, but if you were using a heavy hitting vape with a big load size, then a inline+tree could definitely be desirable.

    but an inline with TWO trees is a bit excessive, definitely losing a lot of flavor and getting big time condensation, but if those aren't big concerns for you, and you like to take giant lung-busting vapor rips, then 2 trees can work fine.

    UNLESS the double trees impedes the airflow so badly your vaporizer doesn't quite work well with it...
    (Poorly made double perc'd tubes often have a problem like this)
     
  21. snew

    snew Member

    Messages:
    68


    Hey can you tell me what parts your using here? I acquired an herbaire 3 weeks ago and would like to water cool it. Any help would be appreciated.
    snew

    OK, can you tell me what you used here? I've searched and it appears its not here any where. Maybe you could start another thread with the demo. It looks interesting.

    mod note: Edit your post-don't post back to back. Posts merged.
     
  22. Egzoset

    Egzoset Banned

    Messages:
    3,086
    Location:
    Qc/Can
  23. JacFlasche

    JacFlasche Member

    Messages:
    10
    If you don't smoke through the same rig, and I am sure you don't, you can just drink the bong water. It tastes good, and will no doubt add a little of the recreational molecules to your blood eventually.
     
    Egzoset likes this.
  24. Egzoset

    Egzoset Banned

    Messages:
    3,086
    Location:
    Qc/Can
  25. JeeSee

    JeeSee Cultured Curmudgeon

    Messages:
    239
    Location:
    India
    Forgive me for resurrecting an old thread, but my problem is this: my MFLB has slight tears in the screen (along the rod as seems its wont), I'm an international customer who does not wish to revert to smoking in the month it'll take for my warranty piece to get here. If I hit it native, I'm getting quite a bit of fine particulate matter in my mouth - but if I hit it with water filtration, they aren't noticeable to me at all. Aside from losing half my load through those tears over the course of a trench, do you think the water is filtering all the particulate matter out, or do you think it's still a gamble vaping with a torn screen? I hope someone replies quickly so that I can either tear my screen out and send them the pictures for warranty, or request another box and ask if I can send them pictures later when the warranty piece comes through (they're very nice and do that for international customers the first time, I'm hoping they'll do it for me a second too haha). Thanks.
     

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