Vaporizer Discussion Split and a Review Section

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by vtac, Sep 4, 2012.

  1. vtac vapor junkie

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    Home and Portable split of Vaporizer Discussion.
    max has suggested that splitting Vaporizer Discussion into two sections - Home and Portable - would make things a lot easier on newbies and also help relieve some congestion in our busiest section. At first I wasn't convinced that there was a problem, after some reflection however, I realized how disconnected I am from a newbie's point of view, and the idea makes good sense.

    Classification would be based on whether a stock unit is designed to be plugged into the wall or not. To keep accessibility at a maximum, the thought is to have both sections at the root level, i.e.
    • Vaporizer Discussion - Home Units
    • Vaporizer Discussion - Portables
    • General Vaporization Discussion
    Review Section
    Our current format isn't very friendly to reviews. We've discouraged review threads from being created in Vaporizer Discussion because they clutter it up. The alternative has been to make a review post in the relevant model thread, but those posts can get buried quickly. A dedicated review section would address these problems while introducing some challenges.

    Quality control is an important consideration here. Biased, uninformed reviews don't help anyone, and we don't need 50 single paragraph reviews on one model. To ensure a consistent level of quality the thought is to require approval on all new threads in the section. I also intend on compiling a list of links to existing reviews here on the forum that reflect the level of quality we're aiming for.

    Even thoughtful, well-written reviews may provoke some negative responses - we've all seen the flamefests - and we also don't want review threads fracturing discussion between the model threads in Vaporizer Discussion. To address this, the thought is to disallow replies in the section.

    What do you think, fc?
  2. Peloton Vapes Hard

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    This sounds like a huge step in the right direction... IMO the biggest flaw in our current setup is that good posts/reviews/videos get buried quickly within a model thread. Sometimes the same questions get asked every few pages, and a little reorganization could help ease this I think. A review section is an excellent idea, I like that. Can't wait to see what you guys come up with!
    kingofnull and Hippie Dickie like this.
  3. pakalolo RoboMod v3.07 (stable)

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    The Home and Portable split makes sense to me.

    I gather the Review section would actually be a series of single post threads with titles like "Vape X, reviewed by SomeDoofus". I understand the intent of not allowing replies, but wouldn't review comments/disagreements wind up in the model thread anyway?

    Will we allow comparison threads?
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  4. CentiZen Fully Certified Evil Genius

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    I like the idea both of a split from home/portables instead of the unified vaporizer discussion but I do not think that it would be prudent to disallow replies on reviews. I think that if there were strict rules set on the replies then they could remain corgil and informative. I find whenever I write a review something always ends up getting pointed out me that changes the way I think about that particular vape. I think we would lose alot by not allowing replies.

    Perhaps there could be an implementation of a "Junior Mod" position which have the ability to moderate the review section alone to lighten the possible load on the main staff.
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  5. newVaper420 Vapor Enthusiast

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    So I definitely agree that a split would be helpful because you are not really changing anything just classification. I actually really like that. As a complete new person it would take a while to sift threw which ones were home and which we ones were portable.

    However, in terms of reviews, I think that you should definitely allow discussion within the review post. I believe listening to other FC members critiques on your review, like Centizen said, helps you see it in a different light.

    However, how would this operate? Would it be a separate review section for each vape? Otherwise page 1 of reviews might be one vape and then more reviews for that same vape are on page 4 of the thread list. This can be confusing when trying to find all the information you can about a particular vape.

    What do you guys think?
  6. Slightly Medicated (SliM) Iron Lungs

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    I like the idea of doing a portable and home category. It will help first time users sort though the two types. I think people tend to want one or the other. I have mixed feelings about the review section. I always felt like they belong in the discussion of the vaporizer. I am not sure splitting reviews up in to individual posts in a new section is worth wile. I do worry that reviewing the reviews from the thread might slow down the conversation abut the device in the thread. Often times reviews bring up pages of good discussion on what ever points have been brought up. I think separating the "good reviews" into another thread will pull some of the momentum out of the original topic.

    What if there was a way to make the review posts within a thread different. Maybe change the background color... put something in the thread. If it is redeemed as very valuable then it can be marked as so and made easy to see as you are scrolling through. That way someone scrolling through the 600 page thread can look for the posts that are marked "important" or "review" or what ever you want to call it.

    That is my initial impression.
    ShipDit, Adobewan, turk and 2 others like this.
  7. newVaper420 Vapor Enthusiast

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    Yes, I really really like this, because a review is often meant (in my mind, especially on a forum) to spur discussion. When I write a review, it's because I want other people to know how I feel about a device and then to discuss the review, and either tell me I'm doing something wrong, using it wrong, or if they are experiencing the same thing. If there was a way to "label" as SliM put it, and then being able to search on that label for a review section, I would actually love to see all the posts marked as "reviews" in one section via a search, and not move the discussion to multiple places about the same vape.

    I think part of the benefit of the FC forums is it's one of the only forums I've been to where all the discussion about a device is in one dedicated thread. It makes it much easier to find the information you are looking for if all of it is in one thread. So by separating out the reviews, you are making different places for information when it can be all in one place. I kinda think that's one of the strengths of FC. When I want to read about the Pax, I don't have to go to multiple forums or subforums or review section, I just click the Pax thread, and the information is there. All 100+ pages of discussion or so, LOL :-). It's a lot of information, but I like that it's all in one place. People's reviews, problems, hates, discussions, etc.
    ShipDit and BigDaddyVapor like this.
  8. t-dub Vapor Sloth

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    Mine as well.
    I also want to say that I think the "test" comparison thread went really well. Hopefully we can see more of this and it will not prove too much work for the mods.

    I would also like to hand out a big "thank you" to the staff for all of the janitorial and pest control work that has been going on lately around here. Great job :tup:
    Slightly Medicated likes this.
  9. Stu Maconheiro

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    While I do like the idea of splitting off the Portables into their own areas, I'm not sure about having a review-only thread that doesn't allow discussion. First of all someone would have to decide what constitutes a legitimate review from just initial impressions or general comments. This alone seems like a difficult task. I think it would also make searching for answers more difficult as well (having to do a search through multiple threads).

    :2c:
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  10. hazy dreamer

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    The home and portables split is a good idea. I think reviews should stay within the relevant model thread. A way of keeping the reviews accessible could be to provide links to review posts in Vaporpedia, which I think is an underutilised resource.
    Hippie Dickie and SD_haze like this.
  11. Stu Maconheiro

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    +1 on this.

    I think Vaporpedia could maybe have a webpage dedicated to good, solid reviews of different models and just link them back to FC.
    :2c:
    turk likes this.
  12. turk turk

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    ...I like everything that is being proposed ....so far...I'll stay tuned and contribute if I feel my input is needed..
  13. mmenzie My friends call me "Menz"

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    I agree... all suggestions above sound good to me
  14. Hippie Dickie The Cube Rules!

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    slightly different topic, but concerning a new sub-forum ... how about collecting all the DIY threads from Vaporizer Discussion and putting them into its own DIY titled sub-form. i suggest putting DIY at the same level as Discussion, General, Ask, and Lounge, rather than under Discussion.

    my thought is a little more visibility for DIY might generate more discussion.
  15. Quetzalcoatl drop beats and bhombs

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    Yeah I've thought about it before, when I first found this site I was kinda lost as to all of the different vapes. Which were portables, which weren't? I had to click the threads and hope there were relevant pictures in the first thread, and if not, either try random pages or google image the name and see what comes up. Good call on splitting them up.
  16. vtac vapor junkie

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    Thanks for all the replies!

    Objective comparison threads, yes, absolutely. Will we find any? ;)

    All good points. Discussion is of the utmost importance and we don't intend on stifling it. I didn't do a very good job of explaining the details, but I think that the way the process will be set up should alleviate these concerns. Every submitted review will require staff approval before it's visible. That process will be unforgiving by most people's standards and unfortunately many submissions will be rejected - probably even the majority. "Rejected" is the the wrong word, really; it just means that they belong as posts in the model thread as they exist now because they're more opinion posts than objective reviews. There's nothing wrong with that - they are what they are. Objective reviews should be able to stand on their own because they're factual.

    What do we mean by "objective review"? A well-written, thorough, and thoughtful account not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts, undistorted by emotion or personal bias, and based on observable phenomena. Basically heavy on science and light on opinion. Of course there will be some opinion, but it will and must be stated as such.

    Who is qualified to write an objective review? In general I'd say someone who has enough ownership experience with a given model to know all of its ins and outs, as well as the same level of experience with similar products. Years of experience with vaping in general and ownership of multiple vaporizers would be par for the course. We probably wouldn't even consider accepting reviews until a product has been in production for a few months. Who would be the judge of this all? Our staff, who I believe have the ability to determine whether or not a review meets these criteria.

    I can understand the feeling that discussion should be allowed even if this is the case and initially this was my feeling as well. You can blame the change of heart on max, and I'll quote him here. It should be said that constructive discussion of an accepted review will of course be possible in the relevant model's thread.

    Some reviews (if in thread form) would produce endless arguing (making more mod work necessary), and newbies would flock to the review threads with their endless questions, increasing the bloating even more. Comparison reviews involving 2 or more models are especially 'hot topics'. A good A/B/C review, like Gonzo did on the CRZ, HI, and UD models, is gonna be especially welcome, but also the most likely to provoke endless discussion and arguments. Some of these fat threads would end up detracting from the actual vape thread in Vaporizer Discussion.

    That's the reality, unfortunate as it is. It's a trade off but a necessary one IMO.

    It would be a new section with each review being a thread. While possible, I don't think we'd see 20 back-to-back reviews on the same vape. Reaching four pages of reviews would take a long time as well.

    That's a good idea. It would be neat if the software let us do something like that, or even made posts with a certain number of likes stand out. However it would still require going through a 600 page thread. Not a problem for the real vapeheads but we are in the minority. More and more people are just getting into vapor and most of them can't or won't read through even a 50 page thread, let alone 20 big threads when they're trying to figure out where to start. It's easy to forget how confusing everything must be to a newbie, it's a completely different world. Hell, the landscape has changed tremendously even in the last year. I know I have trouble keeping up at times. Easy access to comprehensive and objective reviews would be a massive help to newbies, and maybe even useful to seasoned vaporists.

    You read threads in entirety before posting in them? Bless your kind soul. :D Unfortunately you're in the minority and there's no way around that. We've even considered a semi-strict "you must read the last x pages or x posts in a thread before posting in it" rule. It's just not realistic. The great discussion in the model threads is what makes this site worth visiting. I agree, and wouldn't want to change that for anything. That's one of the reasons to not allow replies in the review section.

    An extra special thanks goes out to a certain hawk-eyed staff member. :tup:

    I think putting our wiki to more use would provide a ton of benefit. Unfortunately that requires a good deal of effort, and most people lack the motivation or ability to help. I'd like to do more to reward those who have done such a fantastic job at putting together some truly incredible articles. The caliber of reviews we're aiming for will also require effort and ability, but I have a feeling a review system is more likely to accomplish this specific objective.

    Reorganizing the forum sections is long overdue. It's on the todo list and we're going to try to make it fun. Stay tuned.
    ShipDit, placetime and Steele Concept like this.
  17. Quetzalcoatl drop beats and bhombs

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    Yeah I feel you on the wiki thing. The site I help moderate has its own wiki pertaining to all things related to it, but it's a bit hard to get the userbase to use/check it before making threads, and we have the same problem with people adding to it. Either they're too lazy, or they're unfamiliar with it, etc. I wouldn't mind helping out with your wiki, but I only have decent experience with the MFLB which is probably the longest entry in vaporpedia as it is...
  18. placetime Well-Known Member

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    so, how will "portable" be defined? :horse::worms: (now where's that "beating a dead can of worms" graphic...)
  19. pakalolo RoboMod v3.07 (stable)

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    If it's designed to be used when plugged in, it's a home unit. Portables have a self-contained power supply or need flame. Devices that need to be plugged to recharge are portable.

    ETA: That's my definition and not necessarily the forum's, although I suspect they are the same.
    placetime likes this.
  20. Stu Maconheiro

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    The only problem I have with this definition is that it bunches vaporizers like the GonG gn0me and Vapocane in the same category with true portables. Sure, they can in theory be used "on the go", but in all practicality, they are home units.

    :peace:
  21. Quetzalcoatl drop beats and bhombs

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    Good point, but I think the distinction between "home" and "portable" units is easy enough to see. The GonG gn0me isn't portable if it's meant for a water pipe :p
  22. u bwade wunner Well-Known Member

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    I think we should have portable, home bust most of all a booty thread
  23. Vicki Herbal Alchemist

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    What about the MFLB? It can be used at home, plugged into the wall, or portable with batteries or car adapter.
  24. pakalolo RoboMod v3.07 (stable)

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    True, but it was designed to be used with an independent power source.
  25. CentiZen Fully Certified Evil Genius

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    Yeah there are several models which could be considered in betweens with their passthrough adapters like the solo and the omicron, but those are still advertised as portable.

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