Discontinued VapeXhaleLabs Presents: The Cloud

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stonemonkey55

Chief Vapor Officer
Manufacturer
oldiebutgoodie said:
lwien said:
^^ School is now in session. VERY well said from someone who obviously has had more than just a little experience in the business world.

Well done, OBG.

Thanks, I'm blushing :) . . . ~35 yrs in Silicon Valley, umpteen start-ups, more launches than I can recall.

Hippie Dickie said:
gosh, i was thinking things never go so textbook.

Quite right, things never do. That's why it's called a "plan". ;)

Of course, many start-ups don't even have that - entirely seat-of-pants, hand-to-mouth, make-it-up-as-you-go. Failure rate = ~90%

OBG - I really appreciate your post, I was about to compose an explanation but you worded it so much better than I ever could.

A long time ago, I read an article that said that a business plan is only in place to make you feel like you have control over something you have very little control over. l find that to be 1000000% true, although the plan has helped us stay on track when the world has seemingly navigated us off course.

So update time!

Since the last update, we have been in a bit of a holding pattern, waiting for new PCBs to be created with the same parts we specified. Once those arrive, we will have our manufacture rebuild a few with the new components and then we will be testing it to ensure that all is good and our early adopters aren't stuck with a "beta" machine.

Wish I could be more specific at this time, but as soon as the manufacturer and we get a better grasp of how many they can produce with a low failure rate, then we can share more with the forum.

Hope everyone had a great week and are getting ready for an awesome weekend.
 
stonemonkey55,

lwien

Well-Known Member
nedvaper said:
(Sorry, I'm such a newbie I don't know how to quote previous posts.)

Regarding the 90% failure rate for new businesses in the US, in fact, nearly 70% surive 2 years, and 40-50% of new businesses last at least 5 years.

http://smallbiztrends.com/2005/07/business-failure-rates-highest-in.html


so I think that's good news for VHX.

I certainly hope it's worth the wait.

That was a study of business trends in 1998. 14 years ago is a lifetime in the business world. The study was also done in the dot com/tech boom and that bubble lasted for awhile (and cost me a TON of money... :cry: )
 
lwien,

moodswing

low tolerance is underrated
stonemonkey55 said:
...Since the last update, ... waiting for new PCBs to be created with the same parts we specified. Once those arrive, we will have our manufacture rebuild a few with the new components and then we will be testing it to ensure that all is good and our early adopters aren't stuck with a "beta" machine.

are these the components related to the burn out problems?
thx for the updates btw
 
moodswing,

nedvaper

Well-Known Member
lwien said:
nedvaper said:
(Sorry, I'm such a newbie I don't know how to quote previous posts.)

Regarding the 90% failure rate for new businesses in the US, in fact, nearly 70% surive 2 years, and 40-50% of new businesses last at least 5 years.

http://smallbiztrends.com/2005/07/business-failure-rates-highest-in.html


so I think that's good news for VHX.

I certainly hope it's worth the wait.

That was a study of business trends in 1998. 14 years ago is a lifetime in the business world. The study was also done in the dot com/tech boom and that bubble lasted for awhile (and cost me a TON of money... :cry: )


Here's something I just found on the SBA with more or less the same statistics. I don't know what the truth is, but I have heard several times that it's a myth that a huge % of new businesses fail.

http://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/sbfaq.pdf
 
nedvaper,

oldiebutgoodie

Apostle, Church of Vaporization
No need to belabor that 90% figure. Actually meant it with tongue partially in cheek I was cavalier in having tossed it out that way; shouldn't have done that. Of course it's overstated.

That said, and so being straight about it for a moment now . . . IMO any such reported number should be viewed with a very careful eye. As already observed by lwien, the particular period of time being measured will substantially alter the result. Thru this recent recession, D&B calculates that the rate jumped by ~half, and IIRC the bump was even higher with the .com bust. Govt agencies have their own calculation methods (which can be changed by an Administration, btw), and a reputation for wild inaccuracies. The particular dataset used greatly influences the number, and these vary significantly. And AFAIK none of the datasets remotely pick up the large number of 1-2 person attempts that simply never get off the ground at all.

The original point was essentially that the hill is steep, and in the end it comes down to the quality of the team and the $ in the bank. And that unfortunately a high proportion don't make it. But all indications are, from the outside looking in, that VXH has the "right stuff" to come thru on top. That's what's important.
 
oldiebutgoodie,

jackstraw62

Low temp deadhead vaporist
hopeful we are talking about printed circuit boards and not Polychlorinated Biphenyls btw thanks for the update.
 
jackstraw62,
G

Guest

Guest
i just dont understand how the release date has been set back so far???

why would you tell people it is gonna be ready by a certain time then it's not?

now we have no release date whatsoever, just a bunch of really dedicated customers to be...waiting ...waiting.....

holding our breaths

why not set a date and stick to it? its like people who think its cool to be late to the party....just annoys the host of the party

i have a feeling htis is gonna get drawn out waaaay past july...i can see production starting,...never...and the project ditched .....hopefully not

theres no way a group of heads could actually try to get this out and fail so many times unless they didnt care, ran out of money or both. I doubt they ran of funds.

or..if they told people it would be this awesome product and hyped it up before realizing it actually isnt what we all think it is....... :rolleyes: seems like more time went into the production of videos on the web and a nice clean website before actual product development

if it were me, and i had a product in such high demand, i would hire as many people as possible to be working 24 hours a day to figure out how to make this thing happen and then hire enough people to put them together so production would reach over 100 units a day, at least, i mean if you have all the parts even a thousand a day isnt too hard with 30-40 people and the right production lines :brow:

i hate to come off as a hater, but im really not diggin how these guys told us this and that and then nothing...now were waiting for some circuit boards?...

imo you shouldnt have told the vapor world about the cloud till the cloud was finalized and ready...now were all staring at you wondering.....
 
Guest,

abo27495

Well-Known Member
I know that this has been asked before, but I didnt see a clear answer. Will the cloud work with a pd size bowl?
 
abo27495,

IAmKrazy2

Darth Vapor
@rastavape. IMO your post shows you have little to no idea how a business actually runs, especially a small starter business with limited resources. But you are surely entitled to your opinion.

Pushing back an expected release date in this industry is actually common. Really making an effort to make the best possible vape from the ground up is a little more rare. Rome was not built in a day.
 
IAmKrazy2,

B.

War Criminal
rastavape said:
theres no way a group of heads could actually try to get this out and fail so many times unless they didnt care

Son, if they didn't care they would have released it a year ago.

Let's keep it positive.

When it does finally come out, I know I'll be happy you guys took your time and got it right. I've been an early adopter with a vape that could have used a little more fine tuning before its release, not a fun experience.
 
B.,
G

Guest

Guest
i hear ya iamcrazy2

ive actually run a few successful restaurants

like i said im not trying to hate, perhaps my post was a bit harsh or uneducated to some, but imo i just dont like how they told everyone it was gonna be out and now were all here still holding our breaths.

the vids on utube were so over produced and that is called marketing hype, when there is no product to actually hype b/c its not a product when its not in the publics hands, its just an invention

you seem to have one already by looking at your sig, so ur not too worried i imagine

plus stonemonkeys sig says their just waiting for parts then they ship, but his last post said he had no idea when anything was coming together..?
 
Guest,

IAmKrazy2

Darth Vapor
I do not currently have a VXC in hand, and haven't for some time. I want this damn thing as bad as anyone else, id imagine even more so then most of the readers. Been here following since day 1, and after using it there is no more question about function, this vape is groundbreaking in the industry.

I have/had an original Solo, LSV, MZ, EV-1, MFLB, Extreme, and others. These were all improved upon later, and in the case of all but the EV1 and Extreme probably needed more fine tuning before being released. If the VX crew didn't care, they would be producing this in China, using cheaper materials, less testing, and wouldn't have designed a heating system from the ground up second to NONE in heat retention on the market. This isn't some thin long ceramic heater being re-purposed for vaping like almost every other vaporizer on the market. i wish it was out too, but not at the expense of a units that doesn't perform exactly like i want it to, and that will have a low failure rate.
 
IAmKrazy2,

Lip465

woooo
Why doesnt this thread just get put on hold and have VXC just post updates on their website then the OMG NOt out YERT FUUUUU bit of this thread would get put out. :peace::2c:
 
Lip465,

max

Out to lunch
Lip465 said:
Why doesnt this thread just get put on hold and have VXC just post updates on their website then the OMG NOt out YERT FUUUUU bit of this thread would get put out. :peace::2c:
Are you saying all our threads here should be pristine, as in lean and mean, with every single poster up to date and no one posting anything 'unworthy'? If there is such a forum somewhere, I suspect that it has little activity, and/or is so heavily moderated that it would be doomed to eventual extinction. There has to be a balance, and that means allowing some off topic posts, and also dealing (nicely) with those who aren't willing to do a LOT of reading to get up to speed with what's going on currently.

This vape is going to get a new thread when production units start shipping, and it will be leaner than this one, with less off topic and repetitious posting allowed. But it won't be perfect and we're not gonna try and make it so. As with any product thread there'll still be posts you have to plow through and ignore.
----------------------------
rastavape, you said this in your 1st post (2 months ago)- "i am a little confused as i have read a bit through this thread". Apparently you've still only read "a bit". Otherwise, you wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) still be confused about the delay. A lot of us aren't confused about it at all, since we know the story. They very much underestimated the time it would take to arrive at a release date. The company has admitted that numerous times. Issues with the vape, as far as heat sensor placement and insulation, had to be solved. There have been setbacks with having to find a manufacturing company and a credit card processor. I suspect that they're now purposely avoiding any kind of a timeline for release, expressly because of previous setbacks. If you'd taken the time to read (and you've had 2 months with no confusion about which vape you want), you'd know all this.

Let's look at just two aspects of what would have happened if VapeXhale had posted nothing here at all until they had production units ready to ship. #1- It may well have taken a lot longer to reach the launch date, since the same requirements for manufacturing and payment (as well as other issues) would still be required, and no one would have a good estimate as to how much serious interest there would be for the vape. The huge number of preorders for an expensive model like this is unprecedented, has to have helped assure everyone involved that the demand is there, and it wouldn't have happened if the product hadn't been announced long ago. They told eveyone who they are, what their backgrounds are, and what they planned to produce. They announced it on the best possible platform, a vapor forum full of connoisseurs. While the setbacks have been frustrating for all concerned, the long time between product announcement and launch has built up much interest and many orders, and this has to have been beneficial to the company.

#2- The transparency they've used, in showing us all the setbacks and problems they've run into, has given us a good look at how difficult it can be to start a company and produce a product like this. If they're willing to show us the whole works, warts and all, it should give prospective buyers a very good feeling about the quality of the product and the integrity of VapeXhale. I'd much rather see this process, and put up with the frustrations of waiting, than just see an announcement out of the blue one day that 'We've got the greatest vaporizer ever. Order now!' We've had the chance to observe the birth and growth of a company and their first product. Some of the growing pains/bumps in the road have not been flattering, but it's given us a unique look at the process that few people get to see, beta testing and all. And the extensive testing, showing us the 'oops' and 'we've got to improve this aspect' stuff, should also be reassuring to buyers. We don't want to be beta testers buying production units. We've seen what happens when a company brings a product out too soon. You don't want to return a vape you've just bought because the heat sensor didn't stay where it was installed, or see others getting a 'new and improved version 3' six months down the road. This drawn out process has not been fun for any of us, but I think when it's all over we'll end up being glad we went through it. A lot of life events are like that. It's sometimes hard to gain valuable info and insight when everything's easy and fun.
 
max,

B.

War Criminal
Well said Max. Let's also consider that this isn't some big corporation with an R&D budget and a marketing department, it's a few guys with full time jobs and families that are getting this done in their spare time.
 
B.,

stickstones

Vapor concierge
The problem is most definitely not the delays. All companies have them. I was hounding Steve at Arizer for two years for information about his soon-to-be-released portable before he finally released the Solo. I knew nothing of it until it came out. All Steve had to endure was a friendly email every several months until he got it done. But I haven't bought one yet, either. There's just too much I would have done differently and it clearly still needs refining. So the problem is not the delays.

The problem is the transparency. And it only seems to be a problem for a few of us. Most of us dig it and like having input as well as getting a peak behind the curtain. But if we make too much noise about the delays (which we only know about due to the transparency) then they will be forced to shut up until it is completed. Dealing with the complaints due to transparency wastes time and frustrates. Let's keep these guys happy and encourage them until they churn this thing out!
 
stickstones,

Elluzion

Vapeosaurus Rex
Honestly, at this point in time, I think that we are all closer than ever to seeing the cloud. I know that the dates for launch have been set back many times, etc, but I know that the final pieces are being put together as we speak, and launch will come very soon... Now, whether everyone who pre-ordered etc will get their units at launch is obviously not realistic, their will have to be a down time between the first releases and continued releases of the cloud just because of how business and money work, but it'll be the start atleast!
 
Elluzion,

max

Out to lunch
The problem is the transparency. And it only seems to be a problem for a few of us. Most of us dig it and like having input as well as getting a peak behind the curtain. But if we make too much noise about the delays (which we only know about due to the transparency) then they will be forced to shut up until it is completed. Dealing with the complaints due to transparency wastes time and frustrates. Let's keep these guys happy and encourage them until they churn this thing out!
Yup. You get burned enough times, you keep away from the heat. I wouldn't expect even an approximate date out of VapeXhale at this point, if there's any possibility at all of another delay. I know I'd keep my projections to myself at this point. IMO once the new manufacturing team is in sync, things should start moving. At the same time I'd expect sm and crew to be double and triple checking everything, to make sure there are no more surprises to hold up production and shipping.
 
max,

t-dub

Vapor Sloth
I remember a long time ago discussing, in this thread, things like managing expectations (under promise and over deliver) like I was trained to do at Lexus. We have had an unprecedented view behind the curtain up till now, and its been awesome, but maybe that phase is over and its time to transition towards a more "normal" customer/manufacturer relationship here.

t-dub
 
t-dub,
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