bassplayer
Well-Known Member
Thanks - the shop I went to didn't have the adapters and Aqualab is out of stock - any other sites online that may have the adapters?
Discontinued VapeXhale Cloud
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elmomuzz
That just happened...
I am all about details. In post #2509 a spokesman for vapexhale gave a specific figure as to the amount invested into research and development into the cloud. It was a high number and I expressed my surprise and disbelief. It was later revealed in post #2535 that this number was exaggerated.
As I understand it the spokesman as referenced above mentioned in fuckcombustions irc channel the 4,000 units figure. It's none of our business but it would not surprise me if again the number was exaggerated.
But the cloud is a special machine so anythings possible.
The Mighty Monarch
Well-Known Member
The site definitely needs more info like this. The site is so bare that if I didn't know better, I might think the whole thing is a scam, not to mention it doesn't render correctly on mobile devices. The lousy website, lack of clearly available replaceable parts / accessories, and way-too-short warranty are putting me off from the Cloud, even if it probably is the by far most effective vape on the market.
I really want a Cloud, but I can't justify spending over half a grand on something from a company that is giving me the impression they're not firing on all cylinders yet.
elmomuzz
That just happened...
The cloud is the real deal. They may not be the best at setting up a website or e-commerce site or even marketing or public relations but they know how to make a killer vaporizer. Isn't that why we are all here?
And the warranty is one year. If that is good enough on your next 47" lcd tv then why not your vaporizer? Plenty of vaporizers offer a longer warranty but honestly you have to still be in business to honor it. That makes a convenient "out".
If you want to chase clouds this is the best game in town.
And the warranty is one year. If that is good enough on your next 47" lcd tv then why not your vaporizer? Plenty of vaporizers offer a longer warranty but honestly you have to still be in business to honor it. That makes a convenient "out".
If you want to chase clouds this is the best game in town.
StonedMMA
Active Member
http://www.ioffer.com/i/glass-on-glass-angle-converter-18-8-mm-15-143470161
I have purchased from this seller multiple times.
VapeNStone
Mark
Damn they blew that out instantly. They should have held that in much longer. Cute though lol
Slightly Medicated
(SliM) Iron Lungs
Most people blow it out right away. You try and tell them to hold it in, so they hold it in for 4-5 seconds. People really don't understand how vapor can be held in longer for more efficient/complete absorption. Lots of time even when you do explain it they blow it out because of old habits.
The Mighty Monarch
Well-Known Member
That's definitely too short, I always buy extended warranties for all my expensive electronic purposes. It's a bit harder to find a company that's willing to sell coverage plans for a device whose primary purpose is consumption of youknowhat.
Comparison:
Silver Surfer: 3 years
Volcano: 3 years
Extreme Q: 3 years
Pax: 10 years
That's the competition, and all of these companies will be around at least as long as VXH. If VXH would extend the warranty to a competitive length, it would do a lot to persuade me to think that they don't just see this as an extremely late stage "beta" product.
elmomuzz
That just happened...
Lets see ploom has been around for less then a year.. How can you instantly assume they will be around in ten years. You have much faith. And the pax is clearly a beta product. Have you seen how many people are getting warranty replacements simply because they used their unit and got it dirty?
I'd rather have a year with the cloud then a lifetime with the other devices mentioned.
I'd rather have a year with the cloud then a lifetime with the other devices mentioned.
The Mighty Monarch
Well-Known Member
The Pax was kind of the odd one out on that list, but it does prove my reasoning perfectly. As you mentioned, a lot of Pax' have had warranty issues and need work (possibly mine too :/) , but Ploom is still keeping the 10 year warranty. Over the next couple years they'll pay for mistakes made now, but they'll also have gained the loyalty of their customers, who will spread the word to their friends, who may buy. If they do this right they really might last 10 years, but they're certainty goin to last longer than just 1.Lets see ploom has been around for less then a year.. How can you instantly assume they will be around in ten years. You have much faith. And the pax is clearly a beta product. Have you seen how many people are getting warranty replacements simply because they used their unit and got it dirty?
I'd rather have a year with the cloud then a lifetime with the other devices mentioned.
Two years would probably be sufficient, but there's no reason not to sell extended warranties, like 7th Floor does. Unless, of course, VXH doesn't have faith in the longetivity of the company or their products.
If they keep the 1 year warranty and 13 months from now Clouds stop working, the honeymoon period with the community and the good word of mouth will end. They might do out of warranty repairs, but that's certainly not something that helps convince me now it's a solid investment.
I'm sorry if I sound like im attacking the cloud or vxh, From where I can tell the cloud really is the best vape on the market, and VXH has the skill and potential to build a vape that could make it look like a joke. I'm hoping after the release the Devastator they turn their focus away from playing with glass for awhile to improve the reliability of the cloud, and extend the warranty accordingly. With a more reliable cloud, Maybe the shutoff time could be made user changeable as well.
max
Out to lunch
You know that the Volcano carries a 3 yr. warranty, but do you know that originally they only offered 2 yr. coverage on the Digit? They obviously didn't have enough faith in the digital design to supply the extra year of coverage that they offered on the Classic. They waited to see how well the Digit held up in users' hands before extending the warranty.The Mighty Monarch said:
As for 7th Floor, they were in business for many years before offering an extended warranty. elmomuzz also has a good point on warranty coverage from major electronic companies. One year is standard on many expensive products.
My point? Your comparisons to other companies aren't exactly apples to apples, and you should give VXL a chance to do what they have to do to survive and prosper. I mentioned a wish for more HT info from the company, but I'd also like to mention that the website is much improved from what it was a short time ago. Companies need a strong, established base in order to safely expand and offer more to the consumer. VXL isn't a company born with a silver spoon in its mouth, as far as capital. They need to be careful to avoid overextending themselves before they're ready.
sunsett70
Member
is there a simple reason (for glass dummies) for that? i'm trying to see how lean forward would cause splashback.....
Seek
Apprentice Daydreamer
There are drops of water shooting in random directions up. If it's tilted then these drops shooting in same direction as tilted will be affected by gravity and fall on side. Not making it to the mouth. Also ice cube can stop these drops. Also these slits are cut so it's more uniform to pull while tilted.
oldiebutgoodie
Apostle, Church of Vaporization
Warranty is commonly misunderstood, and manufacturers prefer it that way. For sure, it has little to do with "faith". Warranty is driven by marketing strategy and two costs, the cost-of-goods and overhead.
A small company with a new product has little idea what its true warranty cost will be. Sure, engineering will have data on component failure rates and manufacturing will have initial process quality data, but this is a far cry from forecasting failure at the system level across a large population of units in the hands of diverse users or understanding the overhead required to service that. If it's smart, that company will make accruals in anticipation of the unknown expense. Large companies have sophisticated systems to model warranty costs, but even those sometimes miss. The rule of thumb is warranty being 2-3% of cost-of-goods, a big deal in electronics hardware with its thin margins. That cost is built into the product price point and margin target.
Manufacturers know that a very high percentage of their warranty cost will be front-loaded in the product lifecycle. This is due to "infant mortality", i.e., electronic component failure usually occurs early. Beyond that failures will primarily derive from manufacturing, and if the manufacturing processes are well engineered (and re-engineered), the number of failures, and costs, will be predictable and small. Warranty cost accruals fund process improvements to drive that cost out of the product.
Smaller companies that offer longer warranty at product release do so for marketing reasons. They have a new entrant up against established competition, or they may be attempting to create a new market niche. It doesn't mean that they actually know what those costs will be (see above); rather than faith it's more like a wing-and-a-prayer. But they urgently need to be perceived as having quality parity. Larger companies with an established brand typically don't see the necessity and just don't do it unless compelled by competition.
Counter-intuitively, some companies will offer longer warranties precisely because they have quality risk; they need the revenue draw to offset anticipated warranty cost. These companies bet that they can manage the customer satisfaction risk until the quality issues can be resolved, which they hope to fund with the incremental revenue generated by the longer warranty. (Needless to say, this is a high risk strategy, but if the company is operating on a shoestring, it may not have any other choice.)
A company will offer more warranty for a mature product as a marketing device to give it some additional competitive life. It costs the company little to nothing, because all development is now a sunk cost, failure rates are known and built into the price/margin model; the product is a cash-cow. This is true of both the Extreme-Q and the Volcano. BTW, this is also why companies like to offer an extended warranty; since the chances are quite slim that the warranty will be exercised, most of those revenues go straight to the bottom line. It's not about faith, it's about gravy.
Electronics companies don't like longer warranties because they incur very expensive overhead. As noted above, most product related failures occur early in the lifecycle and those costs either get engineered out of the product or, if that is not cost effective, the cost is just baked in. But processing warranty claims is very expensive. Later in a product lifecycle the proportion of warranty claims that are valid (a substantial percentage are frivolous) is much less than early in the cycle; companies use all manner of tactics to avoid these costs, starting with simply not offering the longer warranty unless absolutely required.
Whatever VXL's warranty strategy is, it's about to be put to the test. Those 4000 units are going into the general marketplace; that is a step function and the real product launch. Invariably the warranty cost per unit will go up. Any unresolved or unknown flaws will be exposed. Customer service will be stressed. From this we'll see whether there is reason for concern, or not, with a 1 yr warranty.
Jeez, didn't realize how long this was. Well hell, may as well post it anyway . . .
A small company with a new product has little idea what its true warranty cost will be. Sure, engineering will have data on component failure rates and manufacturing will have initial process quality data, but this is a far cry from forecasting failure at the system level across a large population of units in the hands of diverse users or understanding the overhead required to service that. If it's smart, that company will make accruals in anticipation of the unknown expense. Large companies have sophisticated systems to model warranty costs, but even those sometimes miss. The rule of thumb is warranty being 2-3% of cost-of-goods, a big deal in electronics hardware with its thin margins. That cost is built into the product price point and margin target.
Manufacturers know that a very high percentage of their warranty cost will be front-loaded in the product lifecycle. This is due to "infant mortality", i.e., electronic component failure usually occurs early. Beyond that failures will primarily derive from manufacturing, and if the manufacturing processes are well engineered (and re-engineered), the number of failures, and costs, will be predictable and small. Warranty cost accruals fund process improvements to drive that cost out of the product.
Smaller companies that offer longer warranty at product release do so for marketing reasons. They have a new entrant up against established competition, or they may be attempting to create a new market niche. It doesn't mean that they actually know what those costs will be (see above); rather than faith it's more like a wing-and-a-prayer. But they urgently need to be perceived as having quality parity. Larger companies with an established brand typically don't see the necessity and just don't do it unless compelled by competition.
Counter-intuitively, some companies will offer longer warranties precisely because they have quality risk; they need the revenue draw to offset anticipated warranty cost. These companies bet that they can manage the customer satisfaction risk until the quality issues can be resolved, which they hope to fund with the incremental revenue generated by the longer warranty. (Needless to say, this is a high risk strategy, but if the company is operating on a shoestring, it may not have any other choice.)
A company will offer more warranty for a mature product as a marketing device to give it some additional competitive life. It costs the company little to nothing, because all development is now a sunk cost, failure rates are known and built into the price/margin model; the product is a cash-cow. This is true of both the Extreme-Q and the Volcano. BTW, this is also why companies like to offer an extended warranty; since the chances are quite slim that the warranty will be exercised, most of those revenues go straight to the bottom line. It's not about faith, it's about gravy.
Electronics companies don't like longer warranties because they incur very expensive overhead. As noted above, most product related failures occur early in the lifecycle and those costs either get engineered out of the product or, if that is not cost effective, the cost is just baked in. But processing warranty claims is very expensive. Later in a product lifecycle the proportion of warranty claims that are valid (a substantial percentage are frivolous) is much less than early in the cycle; companies use all manner of tactics to avoid these costs, starting with simply not offering the longer warranty unless absolutely required.
Whatever VXL's warranty strategy is, it's about to be put to the test. Those 4000 units are going into the general marketplace; that is a step function and the real product launch. Invariably the warranty cost per unit will go up. Any unresolved or unknown flaws will be exposed. Customer service will be stressed. From this we'll see whether there is reason for concern, or not, with a 1 yr warranty.
Jeez, didn't realize how long this was. Well hell, may as well post it anyway . . .
Slightly Medicated
(SliM) Iron Lungs
This is fantastic information. All things I wanted to say, but could not put so eloquently. This is so spot on...
I don't put much stock in warranty, and about the only place I take it in to consideration is when I buy a car. It is almost always my luck that the product breaks a few months after the warranty period runs out.
Does anyone have an original unit (one of the first few shipments) that is till running strong? How long have you had it? Just wondering.
elmomuzz
That just happened...
I know what this looks like so keep the chuckles to a minimum. lol Remember that bubbles travel straight up.
The Mighty Monarch
Well-Known Member
Noone's really said anything that explains why VXL is offering a warranty that is at best half the length of the competition. The competition isn't Tvs or electronics (which is an irrelevant comparison because of 3rd party coverage plans), it's vaporizers, and all of them in a similar class have at least three years, or two years while the product was in its infancy.
I'd love to have a cloud, but there's no way I can justify spending that kind of money on something that could give out in only a year. That all said, if they had another 100$ off sale, I'd probably pick up a hydraline pack in a heartbeat.
I'd love to have a cloud, but there's no way I can justify spending that kind of money on something that could give out in only a year. That all said, if they had another 100$ off sale, I'd probably pick up a hydraline pack in a heartbeat.
Purpl3_Haz3
On a Permanent Vakation
More importantly, who here has a beta unit, that is still running? IamKrazy? If there are still beta units running fine, then that should be a sign of longevity...especially considering that the production Clouds had many improvements made, to prevent them from failing.
oldiebutgoodie
Apostle, Church of Vaporization
Other than the Pax, the three products you cited are all very mature cash-cows. The extra time in those warranties cost those companies next to nothing, and are a revenue booster targeted at folks just like yourself. If those were the warranties at introduction, the info above may explain why. Or not, there are lots of other possible reasons; I just gave an overview.
As far as VXL's strategy, that will be based on criteria that certainly none of us here are privy to. VXL may offer some marketing-speak in explanation, but it sure as hell isn't going to show us the spreadsheet. A flippant answer of course is, VXL doesn't think it needs to, or it can't afford to, or it's in wing-and-a-prayer mode.
IMO anyone concerned about this - and it is a fair question - should probably wait to see how the general release shakes out. The proof is not in the warranty terms, it's in the response from the market.
Slightly Medicated
(SliM) Iron Lungs
Mine has been running constantly since I owned it. The only time I turn it off is when I go to sleep or leave the house for more then 30 minutes. I have been power cycling it every 45 minutes since I first got it. I don't like waiting around for it to heat up. Now with my WeMo I keep recipes running so it is automates the power cycling. Now I just walk in and it is always ready. There is a 3 minute period every hour where the device will be in power save mode, but it is not a very big deal.
What I love is, the way I have it set up, it is ready to go the instant I need it. Within 1-2 minutes I can have an entire session and move on with my day. I don't like sitting around for more then 1-3 minutes at a time medicating. It is a waste of my time. I was never one who liked to sit around for 5-10 minutes smoking a pipe. I was always fitting in water pipe rips between doing things.
What I love is, the way I have it set up, it is ready to go the instant I need it. Within 1-2 minutes I can have an entire session and move on with my day. I don't like sitting around for more then 1-3 minutes at a time medicating. It is a waste of my time. I was never one who liked to sit around for 5-10 minutes smoking a pipe. I was always fitting in water pipe rips between doing things.
Did you miss oldiebutgoodie's incredibly detailed explanation on warranties 3 posts above yours? If the 1 year warranty isn't to your liking you're free to look elsewhere. However, given that failures are most likely to happen early, the amount of praise this vape has received in this thread alone, and the level of customer service displayed, I think that would be an misguided decision.
I still have and use beta #1, received in April 2011. It had issues a few months in - most likely the nudged sensor issue which was addressed before the public release - after I lent it to a friend. I decided to take it apart instead of sending it in, and got the outer casing off but wasn't brave enough to pull apart the inner casing. After putting it back together it worked and has ever since. It hasn't been 100%; the sensor is likely not in the right place and so the related heat control system hasn't been functioning properly. The heater is still working fine though, and with a bit of manual on and off it still makes big tasty clouds.Purpl3_Haz3 said:
Edit: Added date.
Purpl3_Haz3
On a Permanent Vakation
This helps me rest assured, that my Cloud should continue to run, well beyond a year. And, between what I have gathered in this thread, and the old thread, barring something ridiculous, if my Cloud should fail outside of my warranty time period, I don't think that I'll have an issue getting it repaired, if repairs would be cost effective vs replacing the unit. That being said, and with the way things roll around here with VXL, I would be a little surprised if there wasn't something that I would want to purchase, to replace or supplement my Cloud, within the next 2-3 years time.
I got my Cloud in the beginning of august, maybe the first day or two. Since then, it's been turned on whenever I am home, for the most part. (I work, approx. 30-35 hours a week, and play music regularly, and have a social life. But, my Cloud gets turned on every morning when I wake up, (soon to be before I wake up) and stays on until I leave the house, only to be turned back on when I return. It only gets shut off when I leave or go to sleep. No issues so far!
Edit* to fix mistakes
Zangano Cruel
IG zan.cru (code) zancru (5% NV checkout discount)
If you don't like the product we understand , but you should keep it to yourself and don't ruin this thread
Either way you ARE NOT GOING TO BUY THE CLOUD, so , do you really care about the warranty???
Many people are happy with the Cloud with or without warranty, please move on and let others enjoy it
oldiebutgoodie
Apostle, Church of Vaporization
IIRC there have been about a half-dozen technical issues in the Cloud that VXL has needed to address since beta. AFAIK all have been fully worked out, except for the high temp on the shield for which the sleeve is a workaround. A very significant change mentioned only in passing recently, is that the heater is now a separate sub-assembly. That will improve manufacturability; it may even facilitate repairing the unit which was not possible beforehand. The product is looking very solid.
Still, I see two primary risks for VXL at this point. The first is in keeping the manufacturing/fulfillment processes stable and 100% predictable. VXL has had a number of glitches in this respect, which would be unmanageable at high volume. And I seem to recall VXL has also switched to a different contract assembly house, that always introduces new variables. VXL is going to have to be a lot more on top of this than it was early on.
The second risk comes from a very different composition of customers. Until now, many perhaps even most customers have come from this community comprised of either experienced vaporists or new users who have joined the community and been helped to come up to speed. Now there will be a large number of novices using a sophisticated product which also has some vulnerability (the glass), and to be frank, there isn't a helluva lot of tutorial that arrives with the product or is online, other than what is here at FC. IMO VXL needs to consider beefing up its documentation, outbound communication, and support; there could be a new user tsunami headed it's way.
This is the point where things really get fun. Fasten your seat belts.
Still, I see two primary risks for VXL at this point. The first is in keeping the manufacturing/fulfillment processes stable and 100% predictable. VXL has had a number of glitches in this respect, which would be unmanageable at high volume. And I seem to recall VXL has also switched to a different contract assembly house, that always introduces new variables. VXL is going to have to be a lot more on top of this than it was early on.
The second risk comes from a very different composition of customers. Until now, many perhaps even most customers have come from this community comprised of either experienced vaporists or new users who have joined the community and been helped to come up to speed. Now there will be a large number of novices using a sophisticated product which also has some vulnerability (the glass), and to be frank, there isn't a helluva lot of tutorial that arrives with the product or is online, other than what is here at FC. IMO VXL needs to consider beefing up its documentation, outbound communication, and support; there could be a new user tsunami headed it's way.
This is the point where things really get fun. Fasten your seat belts.