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VapCap Induction Heater for Desktop and in Car Use

Discussion in 'DIY' started by Pipes, Nov 23, 2016.

  1. rz

    rz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    131
    Make sure to use MKP capacitors. take a look at this mouser filter for more or less what you can use.

    The most direct effect of changing caps is the resonant frequency.

    Decreasing capacitance will increase the frequency.

    The biggest issue of a higher frequency is thermal load on the transistors, as they spend a larger portion of time in a less efficient state.

    The general power consumption also drops a little with lower capacitance (and efficiency decreases), so you don't want to go too low.

    It's nice to play around with, and there are a few noticeable difference in behaviour from heat penetration differences,, total power*efficiency, but the end results are pretty similar

    My build is currently using 2x0.22uF for 0.44uF total which I like. I've used a single 0.33 which also worked well, but the cap would get a bit warm.

    You could probably get away with 1x0.33 if you're using conservatively. I'd feel the parts for excessive heat, and would probably avoid taking it to any excessive use environments. Spreading the load over multiple caps is probably a better idea.

    The board I'm designing has space for 4x 0.15~0.22uF caps.

    Work has been busy as hell the last few weeks, but is quieting down a little now that we're over some large releases. I've neglected my induction project as a result, but I'm pretty much done designing my prototype board. I could keep designing for ages though its really a testbed so I don't need to over-over-engineer it. I've ordered the parts already. I just need to go over the board a final time and send it to get made :D In the meantime, my prototype is pulling along nicely, keeping me chillaxed through the last few weeks :cool:
     
  2. steama

    steama Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,658
    The Skeletor has landed at my house from the land of the maple leaf. What a wonderful piece of work. My first go with it felt like I was getting high with a ghost. I thought about a home for my new toy then I noticed my latte mug on my desk -- well, now it's a Skeletor mug.

    Thank you so much @Pipes for your ingenious and very effective little invention >>> I am really loving it.

    [​IMG]

    :cheers:
     
  3. StormyPinkness

    StormyPinkness Rhymenocerous ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ

    Messages:
    1,676
    Location:
    California
    Great thread, I really like the idea.

    Ah that's awesome, love it in a teacup.
     
  4. GreenHopper

    GreenHopper 20 going on 60

    Messages:
    1,401
    How do you take your tea? One click or two? :lmao:
     
  5. steama

    steama Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,658
    Man, oh man! As far as vapcap goes this damn thing changes everything. It's a whole nuther level of chill.

    Now my vapcap is also a premium 'portable desktop' vape too!

    :love:
     
  6. jane621

    jane621 Unapproved commercial account.

    Messages:
    14
    woderful!
     
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  7. steama

    steama Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,658
    How does this induction device work with the vapcap 'M'? Being that the 'M' is all ferrous metal I wondered if it's induction performance was noticeably different than a vapcap using a Ti tip?
     
  8. grokit

    grokit well-worn member

    Messages:
    11,797
    Location:
    the north
    Very well indeed. The m takes a bit longer to heat-soak, but the flipside is that it holds the heat longer. I feel that it extracts better than the ti tip without scorching the load. For full-size one-hitters I'm starting to prefer the m for these reasons. These revelations came after I switched tips between my ti woody and my m.

    :sherlock:
     
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  9. phattpiggie

    phattpiggie Well-Known Member Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    1,714
    I didn't notice much of difference in caps, now using Ti and it behaves differently.

    @grokit I'll stick with the Ti for now but after a couple of bowls I'm missing something, not had enough time with it yet but first impressions is the M has it for me.
    Enough heat is stored to get multiple tokes off one heat cycle or as you say plenty of heat for one hit with out combusting.

    I've combust with both tips.

    @rz all that went over my head, as does most of the stuff you've written about the work you're doing.
    But thanks any ways to yourself and @Pipes I'm understanding it all a bit more.

    A quick search on serial numbers on the capacitors made me realise they were high frequency and 'special'.
    I'd rather keep with the same specs. but was wondering about physical sizing.

    My next idea is to move the original ones.
    Mines the bottom right one, I'm thinking would it be possible to remove the caps. and put them elsewhere.
    As in either side of the two coils?
    That makes the induction PCB a little wider than the sled but about half the thickness, I can then put the PCB behind the charge board and batteries.

    The on board charging works a treat all 3 at 4.2v, and faster than my D2.
     
  10. Pipes

    Pipes Addicted DIY Enthusiast Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    2,001
    Location:
    Southern Ontario
    No problem moving components around to different locations however, we are dealing with some high currents so extending legs will need to be with decent gauge wire like AWG 16 minimal and keep as short as possible. You are doing a lot to gain very little in size.
    It might be better to consider @rz's approach and make the driver from scratch. Using the capacitor's legs for attaching the components. There really aren't that many discrete components and only 3 main power rails within the circuit. The pre-made board is just so convenient and cheap.
    It is possible to only have one oscillating coil but then you need two work coils. Like this one which is the same as what is being used here but needs two work coils which are not included. In our application though, the work coils can be gauged down as proven in my previous experiments. This is because of the short work cycles. Lots of time for cooling down. Again, big change for little gain.
    Interesting in efforts to scale the size down. I like where it could lead. :brow:
    :science:
     
  11. phattpiggie

    phattpiggie Well-Known Member Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    1,714
    Yourself and @rz seem to speak in a foreign tongue and I'm too long in the tooth to learn the lingo.:lol:

    Pretty pictures do it for me tho.

    If I move them either side of the coils I add 8mm to the overall width, the sled is 60mm.

    Taking them off the back of the board makes it 14mm thinner. I'll not get all 14mm as I need to keep the boards apart, but it takes it to a more cuboid than cube shape.

    I'll bend some solid copper cable I have which will also keep the caps. in place. Plenty of heat shrink as well.

    It would be interesting to see how small you could go with off the shelf stuff and how much smaller a custom build could end up.
     
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  12. Derrrpp

    Derrrpp For the world is hollow and I have touched the sky

    Messages:
    561
    The following was supposed to be posted last night but I'd had a few too many VapCaps and beers, and forgot to finish it.... :lol:


    So, I haven't publicly posted anything about my Skeletor since I got it and threw it on the charger. Well the first thing I have to say is....... my batteries finally died. :D So I have it on the charger now. :lol: That's a solid 5 days by my count. :rockon: And it was used quite a lot in those 5 days! There were many times that I heated my various VapCaps while empty, just so I could play with it more. Lol. And I showed it to some friends who VapCap.

    I love this thing! It's awesome. Probably the best purchase I've made all year, and that's including the two VapCaps I bought a couple months ago! It's so convenient! And with a set of LG HG2s in there, the batteries go forever. I tried to keep a tally of how many heating cycles I could get on one charge, but I lost track somewhere after 50. :ko: I estimate somewhere around 200-300 total? (That's a complete guess though, could be more, could be less)

    I did some rearranging of the switch, charging port, and battery indicator. Managed to find a nice spot in the tic tac box for them to poke out. Only required a slight modification to the cap. It looks a lot cleaner without the wires hanging everywhere lol.

    Also, I made a crude version of the box I drew up for the Skeletor. Turned out pretty good for not having all the right materials really. I'm gonna get some more wood now that I know what I'm doing, and make another box properly. I've got a few slight revisions to the design planned now anyway. I'll get some pictures up at some point of this 'prototype' box. My Skeletor has been housed in it for days now, it works pretty good. The heater just slides into one side of the box that has a sliding door. You'll see in the eventual pics, lol. :cool:

    That's all I have for now, I think.

    :peace:
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
  13. Andreaerdna

    Andreaerdna If God is the answer, then the question is wrong

    Messages:
    736
    It is nice to see every one likes pipes induction heater.

    I for one love it very much! I was so hungry for this that I bought in real time, as pipes referenced them, the spares parts needed and assembling them as fast as I received pieces (thanks to pipes tutoring, BTW thank you again, you are a very kind and open/generous man, wish you all the best)

    Still running like a tank after few months of use (still have to post définitive picture of it) I think it produces a slightly hotter vapor than torch (depending on many variables) but I use VC almost through H2O as any other vape I own so no bother

    Can use VapCap one hand while reading, watching a show, no need to look at what I am doing

    Next step would be a vibrating echo for the click, to allow for use in a loud context, a dinner with guests can be enough to cover the sound of the click

    I already said this but now is easier:

    BEST VAPORIZER ACCESSORY EVER!
     
  14. PPN

    PPN Fleurs&Vapeur

    Messages:
    3,058
    Got my JarheadII yesterday!

    It looks like a nice tool, thank you @Pipes !
     
  15. phattpiggie

    phattpiggie Well-Known Member Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    1,714
    I've moved the capacitors bunged it into the smallest box possible for now just so it's all covered up.
    Once I've got some more bits I'll explore another idea which will make it a bit discreet when out and about.
    I'm not taking this one to bits unless I have to, or the urge gets to great.
    Click to play YouTube Video
     
  16. Mr. Me2

    Mr. Me2 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,128
    Did you keep it on its side so we could see it working? I thought you'd design it to be upright...

    Does this heater keep the cap like new, or does it discolor similar to using a torch?
     
  17. phattpiggie

    phattpiggie Well-Known Member Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    1,714
    @Mr. Me2 on it's side so you see the light properly, you can see in the first cycle I fumble the heating and the light flashes. Doesn't happen when upright.
    Mine hasn't discoloured any more than what it already started as. I'll clean it up and keep an eye on it.
     
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  18. steama

    steama Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,658
    I had a small issue with my cap becoming stuck on the Ti tip when using Skeletor. Typically, when I load my vapcap I usually load it clear to the top with a small mound and put the cap on. Loading this way was causing my cap to stick surprisingly firm to the Ti tip making it difficult to remove.

    Now when I load a bowl for my Skeletor instead of capping a little mound of herb I make sure it is a a bit concave with no herb able to touch the top of the cap. Since I have been loading this way the cap has not stuck once.

    :)
     
  19. xlr8shun

    xlr8shun Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    197
    nice, i have one coming too, expected delivery day 7-5, cant wait!
     
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  20. steama

    steama Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,658
    First impression with the 'M' and Skeletor. As @grokit said the 'M' is slower but holds heat longer than the Ti tip. I have been giving the 'M' a solid four count after the click. If I leaned on the omni as hard as the 'M' it would be close to combustion. Compared to my omni or 'Ti tip' the 'M' does feels slower and so far it doesn't hit as hard from the Skeletor (yet) which isn't necessarily a bad thing. The 'M' is giving nice gentle full hits. So far with the Skeletor, I think the Ti tip works better than the 'M' but the two just got acquainted so things may change as play progresses.

    edit: I was wondering if the 'M' is different with Skeletor because of the additional ferrous metal mass Skeletor is trying to heat. If a person stuck a large iron bolt in Skeletor would it work Skeletor harder? My guess is it probably would.

    :2c:
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
  21. Andreaerdna

    Andreaerdna If God is the answer, then the question is wrong

    Messages:
    736
    It takes longer but cap will change color, at least it is my experience
     
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  22. grokit

    grokit well-worn member

    Messages:
    11,797
    Location:
    the north
    I've been wondering if my portside is as powerful as my jarhead. (< Wtf are we talking about here :brow:?)

    Seriously. I've been using my ti tip with my m body, and it takes longer that it does with the blackwood so I was wondering, if there's no difference in power between the two units, if the ss m body is acting as a heat sink compared to the woody bodies. This is without taking the state of the portside's batteries into account, I'm pretty sure I'm still running at full bore but need to pull it out of the glove box to be positive of that.

    :sherlock:
     
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  23. Pipes

    Pipes Addicted DIY Enthusiast Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    2,001
    Location:
    Southern Ontario
    You have a good question there.
    The desktop Jarhead is driven by a power supply will give exact same results all the time.
    The Portables or battery driven units, will be quicker when batteries have full voltage, but decrease in click speed, as the batteries deplete. We're talking about a 25% change from a full batteries to needs charging.
    Something that can be easily adapted to and might not even notice the difference until batts should be charged anyway.

    Hope this is the answer you seeked.
     
  24. PPN

    PPN Fleurs&Vapeur

    Messages:
    3,058
    How much the JarheadII will consumes in electricity (w/h) if let plugged constantly and not used? any problems to do that?

    It seems the "clic" hits are slightly cooler than using a torch, I didn't get any visible vapor at the first round but I like to use whole nuggs. Is it hotter if you let it to heat past the clic? (I already tested but only for a short second)
     
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  25. rz

    rz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    131
    There should be no problem to keep the unit plugged in. Modern power supplies handle this very efficiently. It won't be much more than keeping, say, your phone charger plugged in even with no phone connected. I'd guess it consumes on the order of a few milliWatts when just sitting there, so very few Watt/h per month.

    The concern exists more with keeping battery-powered devices constantly plugged in, as this will slowly deteriorate the batteries health.

    Regarding clic temp - I find, in my induction unit at least, that heat is produced very locally in the tip around the cap area. I find that if heating the cap very quickly, you can get a first click as the tip reaches temp, but the rest of the tip (the fins) are still relatively cool, and they will quickly cool down the tip as they warm up. By the time you heat up the thing on your second round, the fins are already toasty, so the tip can retain more of it's heat. Once solution is to 'pre-heat' the tip - heat it for about half the click time, then let the heat spread for a few seconds, then continue to click. I've got a slightly different set up, and run my induction heater at about 70% of it's full power. Heat up is slower, but it allows the heat to spread out in the tip a bit more. I prefer pre-heat or slow heat over click past temp, as it helps avoid charring bits of the load.

    Behaviour is similar to a quad torch when heating a cool tip, and pre-heating is common. with a lighter (which I've used maybe once or twice in the last few months), I often push some heat directly into the fins at the beginning to get the whole thing warmed up. I hope to experiment with coild design someday, with about 5~6 windows over the cap area, and another one or two right above the fins..

    I use whole nugs too. I either break a bit off and shove it in, or stick part of the nug into the tip and use the tip edge to 'cut' the nugglet off. I try avoid squishing anything though, to keep the nugglet a little 'fluffy'.
     

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