That is the issue. I do not want to pre-heat the bowl up to anything. I want to be able to add heater to cold bowl take a hit and get vapor. That is what I am shooting for anything less to me is not worth my time as it has been tried and delivered. As far as what temperatures are reached we should look at what temps people dab at, that usually being 500-600F, this means I need minimum temperature of the air to be around 600F, but thats not the case. It actually needs to be a lot more since it needs to heat everything around it instantly. This is where we are at. With the constant evolving of the body we have to rework other parts. The original heaters for this was 2400 watts we went down considerably, but need to make sure it works with both.