Discussion in 'Upcoming and Unreleased Plug-in Vaporizers' started by THC SCIENTIFIC, Jun 3, 2014.
Got word from Glass man.
Hes got three new Odysseys ready to be shipped out to me on monday.
Are these the newly designed ones you were talking about earlier to reduce cost?
Or the super cool spaceship looking ones?
Reduced cost versions. Costs will be determined once we go through process next week to see how much it saved.
Nice! Cannot wait to see the full kit in action!!
Alright here is an update.
Since i had to redo the body to reduce costs, now i have to go back and redo the heater since it does not provide enough power anymore. Need to bump up the power.
I want to point something out.
We discussed convection vs conduction a bit in the vb2.5 thread and I wanted to say something and could not since it was about the Odyssey.
I want to point out conduction is easier to achieve with oils and seems like the best way possible.
How ever pure convection is hard as it requires a lot more power.
You have to heat the air up to 700F and to achieve this, and with glass is almost impossible.
Now I know there are vapes that claim to be convection on oils but they are not true convection.
True convection = using hot air and nothing but hot air to warm up the liquid past vaporization point. Not placing oils waiting a 30 seconds then vaporizing.
Getting air to 420-450F to vaporize Herbs is achievable on many convection devices. Now getting air to 700F to achieve pure convection, now that’s the tricky part.
...an e-nano is convection and does not take a whole lot of power and vapes concentrates with no pre-heat time (around 8 on the dial, i use herbs at 6.5)... however to do this you need your oil in hemp fiber or cotton (or obvious herb bed)...
...your probably not talking about using hemp fiber or cotton as a medium tho...
No im talking about using glass and nothing else other then glass in the air path. This requires a lot of power and to reach 600F - 700F the dabbing temperature ranges it requires a ton of flower.
I can also achieve pure convection concentrates using these vapes:
New Vape Showerhead with cotton in a basket in the air stream.
With my VRIP heat wand
Actually with my ancient Arizer EQ as well when used upside down.
My Supreme 2,3 and 4 can do it as well with lower temps.
To mention a few of them.
It's possible in a lot of vapes in my opinion.
Some need a carrier like hemp fibre but some do not and work very well.
@THC SCIENTIFIC i just read your post!
Makes sense just heating the glass to this temps and then still having to super heat the air... Oh boy that is fun math!
@lazylathe a lot more can do convection that’s true but you are correct when saying it’s harder when everything is glass.
Reason why the Odyssey had the previous body, power of the heater worked well with other characteristics of the body, since the change things had to get reworked.
The current issue I’m having is the volume of vapor from oil being produced with current heater, so we have to rework that a bit and find the right power range again.
I would like to say there is no issue with the herb vaporization. It’s only oils and dialing that in is a lot of work.
I would imagine that playing with the distance of the concentrate changes performance as we. And you cannot concentrate the air too much otherwise your vaporizable surface will be too small.
Have you seen the Glass Symphony vape yet? Full glass air path and heater in enclosed in a glass sheath filled with a special copper paste to increase heat retention and spread. It uses glass beads for heat retention and massive mass. Works amazingly well for herb but cannot really do concentrate.
Please let’s not discuss other companies devices where I can’t comment fully my thoughts on.
Also it is not a full glass air path. They use metal screen unless I’m mistaken.
Now coming back to our design we’ll post up videos once we get it right on the oil version.
It was just a question bro...
How long till videos? Weeks or longer?
I’m waiting for the engineer to hand me the new heaters soon as he’s done. He’s also working on the vb2.5 so he is backed up at the moment.
Hopefully next week I’ll have the heaters to test.
I never vape my extracts above 600f. Lower temps seem to be the new direction.
That’s what the people want yes, but to reach 600F you need hotter air temperatures.
The flowing air has to overcome the oils which is at room temperatures.
This is the trick.
I can get it done with multiple draws but I need it done in one inhale.
How far from the heater is the load?
I agree im looking for everything to be vaporized with one inhalation, and this was achieved with my Sublimator when cranked up to temperature option number 11 out of 12 on the monkey controller.
You mentioned its really difficult to get the air to 600F with this being all glass. Obviously the Sublimator is stainless steel, but so this is where are issues arrive?
I was under the impression glass can handle quite the amount of heat, but maybe im wrong. Anyways, so what is the reason for not being able to get the Odyssey to provide air that is 600F? Is the vaporizer not able to handle the temperatures required to get the air at our desired high temperature?
Have you ever thought about creative a device only for oils rather than trying to get the Odyssey to work with both flower and concentrates? This way you could dial in each device perfectly for both type materials.
Im curious to how concentrates will be held and vaporized without oil dripping down everywhere with this being all glass. Seems like some type of attachment or extra will be needed other than the glass screen?
June 2014, this thread started.
It's almost June 2017 and it is still in the prototype stage...
All these useless updates and secrecy about components makes me uneasy...
If this is a total custom made vape, why the scarcity of actual pictures or videos of the entire unit?
All we have are a few videos not showing very much at all and a massive, outdated looking controller.
Almost every update is:
We have new components!!!
Back to the drawing board...
And so it has been for 3 year...
When we offer help, we are shot down. When we ask questions, you do not give answers that answer anything.
For me, I am out of following this thread and have no real further interest in this project...
@lazylathe as far as i know i have answered all questions, if i have missed any that is not my intention. Please re ask and i will gladly answer them.
To address your other concerns, yes this project started out in 2014 as the Flexo enail. It then grew into something bigger and has morphed into a desktop vaporizer that has not been tried.
There are reasons why i cant show off to much of the design because the parts i have shown off have some how inspired other vaporizer companies. Its not fair for us to do the research and development for someone else to come in and just use the design before we are able to recoup our costs.
As for the help part, I am sorry but "have you seen this vape" is not helping me at all. Specially when i cant comment on it on this forum. Specially when its the second third and 4th time being asked the same question.
I am sorry to see you go as our conversations have been productive and you and others here have made me think even if it does not seem like it, some changes have been done because of the feedback here that i have received, so for that i am grateful.
@MileHighHuman You are correct the sub works great because it is a stainless steel device. Using the same concept on glass makes it much harder. Glass has different thermal properties and it even gets trickier when your talking about air temperatures of 600-700F because you have to worry about other things.
To get glass air path to heat the moving air from room temperature to 700F is what makes it more difficult. To do this you now go into territories that is uncharted.
The only test i know that can tell you if your vaporizer is conduction, convection or hybrid is simple.
Load up your vaporizer and do not take any hits. If it produces vapor then its not full convection its a hybrid.
I was speaking with another company about their bowl design to see if we can work together on it and its stil in discussion at the moment.
all glass vapes are a noble goal, but a bitch to do. That's probably why I can only think of three that exist, and they are for flowers. Hitting dab temps will be incredibly difficult because the glass wants to suck the first fruits of the heat out of the system, ruining any first hit potential. The load will have to be close to the heat source, and the entire system from the heater all the way through the bowl will need to be preheated to within at least a couple hundred degrees to work as a true dab style hit. Truly new territory!
@THC SCIENTIFIC Have you considered using a glass frit for the dab surface, or is that what's already going on?
Yes in fact its incorporated into the design.
what temp are you preheating to, and what temp are you trying to hit it at?
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