Discontinued The Persei Vaporizer for herbs and concentrates.

[Porquiplane]

ok let me clear it up.


I have 5 Persei's for testing. All single top all batteries are reading 4.1v and all AW IMR 18650. They are reading 4.1 out of the unit and 4.1v while the button is pressed measured at the connector.

Now 2.0 ohm leak proof cart does not produce massive vapor on these setups.


Now 6th Persei. LCD Variable voltage top, thats set to 4.1v, but using 2 x 18350 AW IMR. Now using the same cartridge this beast produces 10x more vapor.

What could cause that? Also thought about voltage drop. So we tested 2.0 ohm cart at 3.2v alot more clouds then 4.1v single 18650 battery.

Test the lcd top on the other 5 units. If MORE vapor is produced using higher volt batteries but marked for a lower setting, then maybe the setting of 4.1v is being bypassed and its being shot at 7.4v.

If 4.1 at 2.0 ohms is producing little then the VV top should as well. and 5 vs 1 isnt good odds on the VV tops side. 2 ohm + ~7.4v = ~27.4 watts. Thats alot. Alot of power = alot of vapor. 2 ohm + ~4.1v = ~8.4 watts. So less vapor. so it wouldnt be 10 times more vapor, more like 4 times as much.

check the voltage of the VV top.

 

[THC SCIENTIFIC]

Test the lcd top on the other 5 units. If MORE vapor is produced using higher volt batteries but marked for a lower setting, then maybe the setting of 4.1v is being bypassed and its being shot at 7.4v.

If 4.1 at 2.0 ohms is producing little then the VV top should as well. and 5 vs 1 isnt good odds on the VV tops side. 2 ohm + ~7.4v = ~27.4 watts. Thats alot. Alot of power = alot of vapor. 2 ohm + ~4.1v = ~8.4 watts. So less vapor. so it wouldnt be 10 times more vapor, more like 4 times as much.

check the voltage of the VV top.

The VV is set at 4.1v and tested at the connector reading 4.1v

The top cant run on 3.7v because its a buck design.

 

[Porquiplane]

Well now that is off....

 

[Porquiplane]

Can you test the cart as its being fired? maybe it spikes?? or maybe the 18350s push their excess voltage through?? but you would be able to read that at connector.

 

[THC SCIENTIFIC]

Can you test the cart as its being fired? maybe it spikes?? or maybe the 18350s push their excess voltage through?? but you would be able to read that at connector.

Cant test load no equipment here only engineer has it.


Also if it did leak volts it would come out on the meter when testing.

 

[OF]

ok let me clear it up.


I have 5 Persei's for testing. All single top all batteries are reading 4.1v and all AW IMR 18650. They are reading 4.1 out of the unit and 4.1v while the button is pressed measured at the connector.

Now 2.0 ohm leak proof cart does not produce massive vapor on these setups.


Now 6th Persei. LCD Variable voltage top, thats set to 4.1v, but using 2 x 18350 AW IMR. Now using the same cartridge this beast produces 10x more vapor.

What could cause that? Also thought about voltage drop. So we tested 2.0 ohm cart at 3.2v alot more clouds then 4.1v single 18650 battery.

OK, I was afraid that's what you meant. Persei as we know and love it (charged battery) against the VV top I've never seen. Got it. Bummer.

First thought is along the voltage drop line, bummer again, no joy.

How confident are you that the LCD VV is right? Can you measure it independently? A problem is, often buck/boost type circuits don't 'meter right'. Does that same VV top drive other carts you know in a reasonable way?

How many of these do you have. Can you send me one to put on my rig and see what it's doing?

OF

 

[OF]

Being on this side of the country, dont have many "options". So the only "load" there has been has been consistent as there is no other around. It has always been absurdly sticky. always getting hung up on the fill tool, its viscous. wouldnt call it a liquid, nor a solid. but its more viscous than honey. almost like caramel. liquid-like only when sitting on a mild/medium (120-250) heat source. once cooled it thickens right up.

Cool, sounds darn near ideal if we can get it to load.....

How brave are you? There's rubber seals near the load where the wicks are, get them too hot and you'll get leaks and loose 200 or more mg of oil to the wicks and feed heater you can't get back. The other option is to drain most of it out and scrap the cart and start over again.

I don't think the 'let it flow down while we put it somewhere warm' is going to feed the bulldog. We'll wreck it before it flows going slow?

Anyway, what's your pleasure? Want to move it up or down the cart?

The key, for reflection, is to preheat the center of the cart quite a bit (too hot to touch) before the oil so the warm oil hits hotter walls and doesn't clot. Next time.

OF

 

[JoeKickass]

The VV is set at 4.1v and tested at the connector reading 4.1v

Well there's yer problem!

If you can measure the voltage while the cart is in use I think you will find the Persei top voltage drops as the battery sags but it sounds like the VV top is keeping the voltage right up there the entire time!

If you can measure the current you should also see the VV top pushing more current, but it sounds like a top I want to get

 

[THC SCIENTIFIC]

Well there's yer problem!

If you can measure the voltage while the cart is in use I thik you will find the Persei top voltage drops as the battery sags but it sounds like the VV top is keeping the voltage right up there the entire time!

If you can measure the current you should also see the VV top pushing more current, but it sounds like a top I want to get

Thats what im leaning towards also, but here is the kicker


While thinking about the voltage drop, i drop the voltage to 3.3v on the VV top to compensate for the 18650 voltage drop. Still produces more vapor then the rest. Looking into it even further. Man i love problems.

 

[Porquiplane]

Cool, sounds darn near ideal if we can get it to load.....

How brave are you? There's rubber seals near the load where the wicks are, get them too hot and you'll get leaks and loose 200 or more mg of oil to the wicks and feed heater you can't get back. The other option is to drain most of it out and scrap the cart and start over again.

I don't think the 'let it flow down while we put it somewhere warm' is going to feed the bulldog. We'll wreck it before it flows going slow?

Anyway, what's your pleasure? Want to move it up or down the cart?

The key, for reflection, is to preheat the center of the cart quite a bit (too hot to touch) before the oil so the warm oil hits hotter walls and doesn't clot. Next time.

OF

With a torch, there isnt anything but too hot to touch. want to try to move it down. its the first trial of the 2.4 ohms. want to find the sweet spot of cart/battery mix and stick with just those. so now what should be done??? keep firing the cart in hopes it heats up and takes it?

 

[THC SCIENTIFIC]

OK, I was afraid that's what you meant. Persei as we know and love it (charged battery) against the VV top I've never seen. Got it. Bummer.

First thought is along the voltage drop line, bummer again, no joy.

How confident are you that the LCD VV is right? Can you measure it independently? A problem is, often buck/boost type circuits don't 'meter right'. Does that same VV top drive other carts you know in a reasonable way?

How many of these do you have. Can you send me one to put on my rig and see what it's doing?

OF

Only 1 for now. will see once we are done to ship out.

 

[OF]

Only 1 for now. will see once we are done to ship out.

Understood. Hang on to it, no sense giving the PO a chance to loose it, is there?

How about this run a 'known' 2.4 Ohm cart on the VV head and adjust the VV to match vapor production when using that same cart on your favorite Persei with a fresh 18650 inside? Double check with a known 1.5 and then go for your 2.0?

Screw the numbers and insight for the moment and reproduce the results on the new system?

OF

 

[THC SCIENTIFIC]

Understood. Hang on to it, no sense giving the PO a chance to loose it, is there?

How about this run a 'known' 2.4 Ohm cart on the VV head and adjust the VV to match vapor production when using that same cart on your favorite Persei with a fresh 18650 inside? Double check with a known 1.5 and then go for your 2.0?

Screw the numbers and insight for the moment and reproduce the results on the new system?

OF

I am thinking maybe a current drop also? does this exist? im trying to reproduce other carts other then the 2.0 ohm at the moment.

 

[OF]

I am thinking maybe a current drop also? does this exist? im trying to reproduce other carts other then the 2.0 ohm at the moment.

Yeah, same thought (I think). I've seen it before in buck circuits. Not linear. You raise the load (lower the resistance) for a while and current goes up then suddenly it's not behaving any more, output goes down. Then maybe a little more load and all is forgiven. Kinda stuff that can make you crazy before your time.

I'm thinking maybe I should cobble up another of this here test cable and teach SBM to drive it so he can show you? Give us a chance to talk in common terms and be fun to see if he can make it work without taking a bunch of photos with that phone of his.....

OF

 

[kevin]

Hello
Thanks to everybody for all your help, maybe I'm just missing something here. Okay I had V1 it was okay, then V2, I love it using 1.5 Ohm 3.7V carts and there rocking large clouds no problems no brunt carts! Then got Persei no problem at 3.7, but if I test @3.7V load and prime at 3.7V never getting the cart hotter than I could hold, So now my 5 Ohm EC 6 Tech that came with the unit is tested loaded and primed at 3.7V! switch to 7.4V , two sec puffs release button 2 sec puff about 4 times massive hit (PERFECT)! waited for cart to cool alittle and hit it again, nothing cart is cooked, What the hell did I do wrong? Did you send me 6V carts by mistake, do I just want to much ? plus on the little card thats in the box I 'm well within safe limits.
The carts read 5.0 EC/6up tech others read 5.0 EC/6 tech and then I have a box of 4 ohm @6 volts that I'm not using at all.
Everything works GREAT until I go to 7.4 V, Any ideas what I doing wrong?
Thanks
Kevin
Did you get the picture of the case I sent to surport?

 

[THC SCIENTIFIC]

Yeah, same thought (I think). I've seen it before in buck circuits. Not linear. You raise the load (lower the resistance) for a while and current goes up then suddenly it's not behaving any more, output goes down. Then maybe a little more load and all is forgiven. Kinda stuff that can make you crazy before your time.

I'm thinking maybe I should cobble up another of this here test cable and teach SBM to drive it so he can show you? Give us a chance to talk in common terms and be fun to see if he can make it work without taking a bunch of photos with that phone of his.....

OF

no need i have the tools, just to lazy to open up storage.

 

[OF]

no need i have the tools, just to lazy to open up storage.

Sorry, can't help you with ambition.

Not my job you know.....

OF

 

[THC SCIENTIFIC]

Hello
Thanks to everybody for all your help, maybe I'm just missing something here. Okay I had V1 it was okay, then V2, I love it using 1.5 Ohm 3.7V carts and there rocking large clouds no problems no brunt carts! Then got Persei no problem at 3.7, but if I test @3.7V load and prime at 3.7V never getting the cart hotter than I could hold, So now my 5 Ohm EC 6 Tech that came with the unit is tested loaded and primed at 3.7V! switch to 7.4V , two sec puffs release button 2 sec puff about 4 times massive hit (PERFECT)! waited for cart to cool alittle and hit it again, nothing cart is cooked, What the hell did I do wrong? Did you send me 6V carts by mistake, do I just want to much ? plus on the little card thats in the box I 'm well within safe limits.
The carts read 5.0 EC/6up tech others read 5.0 EC/6 tech and then I have a box of 4 ohm @6 volts that I'm not using at all.
Everything works GREAT until I go to 7.4 V, Any ideas what I doing wrong?
Thanks
Kevin
Did you get the picture of the case I sent to surport?

Best two guess, the oil did not wick completely and dry ran the heating wire, and the other one is dud cart. When did you get the unit? contact support they can help you out better, i dont handle that anymore.

 

[THC SCIENTIFIC]

Sorry, can't help you with ambition.

Not my job you know.....

OF

no need, i think it has something to do with the 2x18350, im going to test out 5 ohm next week with 7.4v set up so lcd and regular top have the same battery config, this way all possible causes can be eliminated.

Remember the only two differences are lcd top vs regular top, and 18650 vs buck 2x18350

So putting the 2x18250 vs 2x18350 we will see if its the top of batteries.

 

[OF]

no need, i think it has something to do with the 2x18350, im going to test out 5 ohm next week with 7.4v set up so lcd and regular top have the same battery config, this way all possible causes can be eliminated.

Remember the only two differences are lcd top vs regular top, and 18650 vs buck 2x18350

So putting the 2x18250 vs 2x18350 we will see if its the top of batteries.

You lost me again, but I trust you (not sure why of course, but I do....).

One other idea, you have 3.0 Volt LiFePOs, right? What happens when you power it up that way? Buck circuits really don't know what voltage they output, only the drop across them.... If there's an issue it should shift the point it happens to change the 'headspace' voltage.

OF

 

[THC SCIENTIFIC]

You lost me again, but I trust you (not sure why of course, but I do....).

One other idea, you have 3.0 Volt LiFePOs, right? What happens when you power it up that way? Buck circuits really don't know what voltage they output, only the drop across them.... If there's an issue it should shift the point it happens to change the 'headspace' voltage.

OF

What im saying is to eliminate all possible causes of the different vapor production, i want to test 5.0 ohm carts on 7.4v lcd VV top and 7.4v regular top, this way we can eliminate the battery as a possible issue.

 

[Nick Again]

You lost me again, but I trust you (not sure why of course, but I do....).

One other idea, you have 3.0 Volt LiFePOs, right? What happens when you power it up that way? Buck circuits really don't know what voltage they output, only the drop across them.... If there's an issue it should shift the point it happens to change the 'headspace' voltage.

OF

Actually this is probably close, but not quite correct. I'd bet dollars to donuts, the buck circuit's inductor is too small and when the voltage is lowered enough, the circuit goes from continuous to discontinuous mode - all all the calculations change. Common mistake I''ve seen many times - everything works until below some threshold, then becomes load dependent and both current and voltage go wild (usually up to close to the input voltage, as long as the duty cycle can support the current).
Easy test for fix - put in a much larger inductor (can't be too large, but easy to be too small).

-NDA

 

[kevin]

Here is a nice case for all the Persei toys, room for everything, Hammer,carts, batteries you name it. Plus there waterproof hard case so no damage


Outdoor Cases
Type 05
Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

[OF]

Actually this is probably close, but not quite correct. I'd bet dollars to donuts, the buck circuit's inductor is too small and when the voltage is lowered enough, the circuit goes from continuous to discontinuous mode - all all the calculations change. Common mistake I''ve seen many times - everything works until below some threshold, then becomes load dependent and both current and voltage go wild (usually up to close to the input voltage, as long as the duty cycle can support the current).
Easy test for fix - put in a much larger inductor (can't be too large, but easy to be too small).

-NDA

I've seen it in 'buck/boost' circuits at cross over as well, but here we have OK function at 1.5 and 2.5 amps but not 2.0. Not your normal deal. Changing headspace is something that G can try. This should give same effect as changing the inductor which probably means a trip to daddy....in Australia.

Some simple converters also time on saturation, changing inductance only shifts the frequency (for better or worse). Not a simple sort of thing, IMO.

For a whole host of reasons probably not worth going into here, bigger isn't always better inductor wise. Q goes down, heat up... Probably more important to understand why the calculated value isn't working than to shotgun past it. Not my call in the end, some nice fellow is paid good money to do those things. I'm just here for the entertainment and to offer an idea or two G might want try.

Thanks.

Here is a nice case for all the Persei toys, room for everything, Hammer,carts, batteries you name it. Plus there waterproof hard case so no damage



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Very cool, Kevin. One thing sure, you have bigger pockets than I do.....

It reminds me of what 007 would pack for long missions....if he wasn't hung up on Vodka Martinis. 'cides which he blazes tobacco!!

OF

 

[THC SCIENTIFIC]

Next Generation of Tanks.

Pyrex

Stainless Steel. Dual use Tank. Oils and Ejuice. Wait for more information.