"the old days" what did you puff before mmj?

[Irie]

This should not diminish the medical movement in the least as we still used it for what ails us....just thinking about the old days before all this branding, renaming and designer this and that.
I puffed way too much schwag before I discovered good mmj in about 1994. I know plenty of you will speak of 60's and 70's Thai and columbian, etc....I missed that scene by a bit.

I remember how lucky I felt to be in "the know", how blown away I was with the smell and appearance of homegrown, well cared for, manicured buds. I was in awe and felt giddy for weeks when I peeked into this 1/8 that was lasting me longer than I thought possible after cutting my teeth on compressed crappy Mex. I am not saying there is not good Mex, I just didn't have it back then.

Myself? I puffed the dank/kind buds, though mostly just herb.. It's still herb to me despite the mmj scene.

What were You partaking, or what do you partake?

--

No one has any funny names for herb?! Seriously??
I could rattle off a few more but I thought it would be more fun to share.....

 

[lepstadder]

In florida we call it krypie(sic)

 

[tdavie]

Back in 1988 I was smoking Columbian and Chocolate Thai. The Thai smelt good, but the Columbian well, as one friend put it 'Don't mind Davie, he's in orbit' No seeds.

From ~1979 until 1989ish I bought from a guy called Murray the J (honest). His weed would be all over the place. Sometimes shitty stuff that looked like 'lumber n bark' (twigs n leaves), sometimes decent South American stuff (hydro was really underground then) and sometimes stuff that would put you into orbit (the Columbian). He also had decent hash that did not smell like soap or petrochemicals. He was also a complete burnout (acid, shrooms and some other stuff on a daily basis); sometimes would smoke all your weed and forget that you had paid for it.

From 1988 until 1999ish the quality increased on a yearly basis it seemed (I'm not filled with nostalgia, but nothing seemed to match the Columbian I tried; your head would fill with all of these colors....or so it seemed ).

Thats about it.

Tom

 

[Hammerzeit]

BC outdoor or closet-grown. No seeds.

Then I got access to MMJ this February...

 

[Purple-Days]

Seedless weed was the stuff at the top of the tray. Everything had seeds and you had to steal cafeteria tray (right of passage) to de-seed everything. we had two grades of weed back then $20-25 ounces of Mexi and $30-35 ounces of Columbian. Yes, folks those are ounce prices.

Once and only once did I see Gold, it was seeded and mostly stick, but some of the most remarkable stuff. Jamaican a couple of times, Panamanian once, Hawiian (seedless) a few times... These were from returning travelers, not commercially availalable... back then weed was called by country of origin. No fancy schmancy names. Sorry folks, I just have to laugh at some of the names, mostly I think there is about as much difference as between Coca-Cola and Pepsi these days (with all the hybridization). But there really was a difference between Mex and Columbian back in the day... BTW Columbian, the good columbian, was going for $325-375 a pound back then (between '73 and about '77)

I knew a dealer who bought seeds and re-cycled them into shitty bags, knew another who misted his pounds as he broke them up. These were guys who sold for a living.

Oh, and almost forgot, Paraquat weed, now that was some good stuff.

 

[tranceporter]

Damn some of you guys have been smoking longer than I've been born.

I don't have access to mmj but I get high grade herb. Currently enjoying some blue dream atm. My very first year of smoking I only could find seeded regs. The first time I smoked high grade was a life changing experience and I can never go back to regs.

 

[vapirtoo]

The "good" old days (1970's) cannot compare to the present mmj or even the black-market
high end stuff of today. PD is correct that weed was named basically by the area
that it was grown in. I too laugh at all of the names and gourmet buds.
Panama red and Alcapulco gold were some of the best old time shit i ever had,
and these would barely make the high end list in todays market.
Great taste and great effect is all I'm into.
P.S. Organics grown outdoors would be nice to try.

 

[obelisk]

Eh, the 'good old days' still exist. Just gotta move to another country. I have never experienced pot as bland, high-wise, than I have in the United States, no matter the extent of statistical potency.

And while I don't know much about botany, I can safely say from quite a bit of experience that more often than not, seeds in bud is not a reflection of its potency.

It is just that, possibly, that because most intelligent growers would not allow a female plant to become fertilized (for weight/saleability purposes), most of the well grown stuff people encounter in this part of the world is seedless. Perhaps it is possible that this has affected how people generally perceive things in this regard.

From what I have read on various grow forums, there are many experienced growers who are not entirely sure that the hypothesis of "when seeds are formed, the plant focuses more on protecting seeds instead of creating resin" is correct.

In fact, I have even heard that seeds would actually make the plant create more resin, since resin protects the seeds (who knows if this is true, I am yet to be satisfied with this statement). And, then, I have also heard that there is NO correlation between the amount of resin and potency. And, also, I have heard some seemingly experienced folk adamantly say that genetics primarily affects the potency potential of the plant, and while various factors can affect realized potency, most importantly the environment, pollination will only alter the ratios of CBN and CBD, while the THC levels will be constant. Dunno if this is true either. Just seems that not many people know exactly what the fuck is going on (I'm def not one who does!), irrespective of how long they have been growing or smoking bud.

My experience: I smoked a shit lot of weed in India. Sometimes I got no seeds, sometimes a few seeds, sometimes many. I did not find the density of seeds to be indicative of the type of high, nor its intensity.

Also, people keep talking about potency. I find that it is not really the potency of bud that is important, since one can always smoke a little bit more, but the nature of the high that can be derived from it that eventually determines satisfaction levels. I am sensitive enough to notice a considerable difference in the nature of the high when smoking a joint vs. a pipe, for example. To a guy like me, the theory that pollination does not affect potency potential, but simply expresses it in a different way (thereby changing the nature of the high), sounds plausible. Anyway. back to work.

 

[crawdad]

Also, people keep talking about potency. I find that it is not really the potency of bud that is important, since one can always smoke a little bit more, but the nature of the high that can be derived from it that eventually determines satisfaction levels. I am sensitive enough to notice a considerable difference in the nature of the high when smoking a joint vs. a pipe, for example. To a guy like me, the theory that pollination does not affect potency potential, but simply expresses it in a different way (thereby changing the nature of the high), sounds plausible. Anyway. back to work.

yes, potency is one thing but if its super potent without the right "mixture" (not sure what that means actually) then its just not as high, least to me. well i mean its high as fuck, but it may lack focus. some of the most intense sessions ive had was not exactly the most "potent" herbs ive had, just seemed that my brain responded the best with it and im sure it wasn't considered high grade. maybe im just mixing terms here.

 

[Sour Deez]

Eh, the 'good old days' still exist. Just gotta move to another country. I have never experienced pot as bland, high-wise, than I have in the United States, no matter the extent of statistical potency.

And while I don't know much about botany, I can safely say from quite a bit of experience that more often than not, seeds in bud is not a reflection of its potency.

It is just that, possibly, that because most intelligent growers would not allow a female plant to become fertilized (for weight/saleability purposes), most of the well grown stuff people encounter in this part of the world is seedless. Perhaps it is possible that this has affected how people generally perceive things in this regard.

From what I have read on various grow forums, there are many experienced growers who are not entirely sure that the hypothesis of "when seeds are formed, the plant focuses more on protecting seeds instead of creating resin" is correct.

In fact, I have even heard that seeds would actually make the plant create more resin, since resin protects the seeds (who knows if this is true, I am yet to be satisfied with this statement). And, then, I have also heard that there is NO correlation between the amount of resin and potency. And, also, I have heard some seemingly experienced folk adamantly say that genetics primarily affects the potency potential of the plant, and while various factors can affect realized potency, most importantly the environment, pollination will only alter the ratios of CBN and CBD, while the THC levels will be constant. Dunno if this is true either. Just seems that not many people know exactly what the fuck is going on (I'm def not one who does!), irrespective of how long they have been growing or smoking bud.

My experience: I smoked a shit lot of weed in India. Sometimes I got no seeds, sometimes a few seeds, sometimes many. I did not find the density of seeds to be indicative of the type of high, nor its intensity.

Also, people keep talking about potency. I find that it is not really the potency of bud that is important, since one can always smoke a little bit more, but the nature of the high that can be derived from it that eventually determines satisfaction levels. I am sensitive enough to notice a considerable difference in the nature of the high when smoking a joint vs. a pipe, for example. To a guy like me, the theory that pollination does not affect potency potential, but simply expresses it in a different way (thereby changing the nature of the high), sounds plausible. Anyway. back to work.

When the female plant gets pollinated she shifts her focus to the seeds. I have had good weed with seeds, but the best never had seeds. The seeds are formed in the calyx of the plant, you know all those hairs(pistols), well they shoot out of the calyx, their primary function is to catch pollen. When this happens that calyx swells up with a seed, if no pollen was introduced that calyx will still swell up towards the end of flowering, but it will be filled with resiny goodness, not a seed.

Every plant is different, the calyx to leaf ratio, but they are hundreds to thousands of calyxs on ever plant, now imagine if every one of those had a seed in it instead of resin, that right there will show you seedless plant will pack more punch.

 

[eddyfrancis]

I wasn't lucky enough to be around when all those serious landrace genetics were. I started out with schwag, then moved to "chronic". Pretty soon we found some chronic that the guy was calling Grunk and it hit us way harder than anything else. That was pretty much my introduction to the mmj scence.

 

[obelisk]

Well, what you (Re Sour Deez) say makes a lot of sense to me. But I have read/heard too many versions of what you say, and then also read too many times things that make an equal amount of sense, and that don't necessarily contradict or refute what you are saying, but suggest, as just one example pertaining to what you said, that the ability of the calyx to produce more resin (by disallowing it to pollinate) really does not affect the potency, even if the amount of resin produced differs. I.e. there is little correlation between potency potential and amount of resinous matter. Does this make sense to me? No, because in my mind the resin is the THC etc. But there you go, it is an opinion, and one forged by people who have a lot of experience as well, some of whom are as adamant as folks from the other side of the coin.

The reasoning behind the whole "the seeds take up space where, otherwise, resin would be" makes a lot of sense to me. As does the reasoning that "the state of pollination would change the plant's inherent priorities, and it would focus more on protecting and producing seeds, than producing resin, since the job of the resin is done".

But my experience with seeded and seeded bud is different from what the consequences of the above statements, if factual, would be.

Here is something that caught my attention on another forum, the author of the quote is someone who seems to be quite an avid and long-time grower:

You are correct. Potency is completely determined by genetics. But, and you know I always find a but, are you discussing Potential Potency or Expressed potency.

The potential of any plant is determined by its genetics. The expression of that potential can be affected by many factors. Environment is one. A phenotype is said to be derived from genetics and environment equally. Thus, you and I grow clones from the same mom. They will not be exactly identical, even thought their genetics are identical, because their environments are different.

When a plant begings the flowering process, the chemical processes that produce THC and the other cannaboids goes into overdrive. We've all smoked veging plants and know the process is active throughout the plants life.

If this process continues without pollination the plant "thinks" its still preparing itself for that pollination, thus we break the natural cycle of the plant and the end result is different than that which occurs after polination.

When the plant is allowed to produce seeds, the chemical balances and reactions change. Thus the plant is no longer producing the same amounts of different chemicals or in the same ratios to each other.

Maybe BG will pop in with all the science guy schtuff.

The production of seeds doesn't necesisarily mean the lessening of the potency, it simply means a different expression of it.

I will add that I have selectively bred single branches and notice a difference in the buzz, but not really a difference in the strength of the buzz.

There are also a thousand other quotes by people who seemingly know what they are talking about, and definitely more than I, some of which backs up what others have said, some of which contradicts, but there is such little convergence on the matter, I am inclined to believe everybody, or at least a large majority, is still making guesses. Some guesses may be a little bit more educated than others, but guesses nevertheless.

What I do know, as a fact, is that while, even back in India, I tend to prefer a bag with no seeds -- simply because one gets more usable weight and also makes things easier to prepare/smoke (the latter was actually my concern, weed has always been available cheap enough to me, until I got to this country, to not have to worry about financing more amounts) -- I have not noticed density of seeds being indicative of potency. Is it possible that this is merely because my observations were not complete? Sure. Why not.

 

[djonkoman]

Also, people keep talking about potency. I find that it is not really the potency of bud that is important, since one can always smoke a little bit more, but the nature of the high that can be derived from it that eventually determines satisfaction levels. I am sensitive enough to notice a considerable difference in the nature of the high when smoking a joint vs. a pipe, for example. To a guy like me, the theory that pollination does not affect potency potential, but simply expresses it in a different way (thereby changing the nature of the high), sounds plausible. Anyway. back to work.

this.
I distinguish 2 kinds of potency myself, the potency of the high and of the bud
the potency of the high is how high you can get from the weed, not related to the amount smoked/vaped
and then there's the other potency, how much of the weed you have to smoke to get a certain level of stonedness

I believe DJ-short defines the same 2 potencies in his articles, but he calls the first kind the ceiling and the 2nd potency


and I also most care about what kind of effect it is, for example I enjoy my own outdoor harvest more then the weed that you can buy at the coffeeshops here
indeed in potency of the weed(the first kind) the coffeeshopstuf is stronger, abd from one of the 2 strains I have right now of own harvest one also has a low ceiling(mild effect), but I enjoy the high more as most coffeeshopweed
only once I had some weed that was like the effect of my own harvest sativa(the 2nd strain), that was haze(nothing in front of it, so could be the original haze)
also the nepalhash is very good(wich is probably still imported from nepal, so still landrace pure sativa)
most of the commercial strains I've tried are too much indica, bland and hardhitting to me
with hard-hitting I mean that the effect hits you at once, while my wn outdoorweed comes on more slowly(probably what would be called creeper in the US)
my own harvest is also partly seeded btw, since I'm limited in the amount of plants(up to 5 plants is semi-legal here, technically it's illegal but no prosecution as long as you hand them over willingly when the police comes)
so I remove the males when the females are already 1 or 2 weeks into flowerr, so I get some seeds for next year and to trade for new strains, but not all buds are full of seeds
if I would have the room I would grow unseeded bud tough I think(just because it's easier, now I always have to look for seeds and often pick some out)
and I'm not a big fan of indica, only exception so far is one of the 2 strains of own harvest that I have now(still from last year's harvest), wich is more indica but without the couchlock and tiredness, a mild mellow relaxing effect with also a high in it(but I also harvested it at coudy trichomes without amber)

from the coffeeshop even a lot of the sativadominant strains are too much indica to my liking, jack herer for example feels more like a slightly indicadom. strain I think

also my own harvest is much smoother, from the shop it's often not flushed well, I've even had some that was so harsh in my VG that I left it sit somewhere in a box for a few weeks till I got the idea to mix it with some of my own harvest to make it bearable

I regret that I haven't had the pleasure yet to try those sativa landraces....(except for nepalhash that is)

 

[stroh]

being part of a newer generation of tokers, i missed the days of the famed landrace strains and started out smoking on what turned out to be skunk #1. i actually did not experience "mids" or "schwag" until about a year or two after i first started toking. while enthralled at first with the prices of lower quality stuff, i quickly found out that i could not stand the brick and ever since have only invested in high quality nuggets.

i live in a non-medical state, but the level of quality i get matches that of medical buds (heck im sure most medical growers started out as profit growers before the medical movement) and on one occasion i have actually gotten some strawberry cough that was from a colorado dispensary. also sometimes get some treats in from cali.

 

[Irie]

Great! Thanks for chiming in everyone and some interesting opinion and experiences.

Seeds. Seeds take energy away from flower production. Probably not a huge impact on potency (sure, probably different, as dj describes), though absolutely impacts the amount of "flower"/bud produced. Think about it like this, the energy used to produce seeds would have been used to produce flower, therefore there is less flower and typically, as I have seen, more "airy" buds.

djonkoman- your lightly seeded plants....do you KNOW that they are from your males?? I ask because you may have strains that "hermie"(hermaphrodite) and throw off some "banana's"/male parts and that has the tendency to lightly seed. And...nice law about 5 is sorta ok though if asked you have to give them up!! Pretty good!

As for all herb being similar these days...not my experience at all. Very different in fact, especially dependent on whom the "parents" were. One must have a number of different varieties (ideally at the same time) to compare to draw these conclusions. Some herb I will be more aware of different parts of my head for example or certainly in strength or how long it lasts, degree of energy and tiredness, effect on emotional states....etc. This is not JUST a sativa v. indica thing though the % of each certainly plays a huge role. Not to mention TASTE. Such dramatic variation depending on lineage! Love that!

 

[Sour Deez]

Yes exactly Irie, seeds dont lower the potency of your plant whatsoever, it just shifts its focus into creating seeds. You have to take into consideration when the plant gets pollinated, was there a male next to it that hit it up early in flowering, or did the plant or another female hermi late in flowering.

Once the plant gets pollinated it stops getting more potent, so if it was early in flowering, that plant is gonna put its energy in creating those seeds, and they are gonna be nice and plump. If this happen late in flowering, like week 7-8 in a 9 week strain, its already ozzin with resin and has a high cannabinoid content. So even if it shifts its energy into seeds, it already packs a punch.

A seeded plant let to mature could be stronger then a seedless plant cut immature. Depends on when it was pollinated. Genetics also play a part in this.

 

[djonkoman]

yes I pay close attention to hermi's, don't want hermi-offspring
first year growing I eventually had only 1 pure male, multiple females and multiple hermi's that I al killed
last year I had one slight hermi, after the first female flowers(not preflowers, she was already in reak flower) she got some male flowers, 2 at every internode
I pinched them of, and after that no male flower the entire flowercycle

had 2 males last year, 1 of each strain, and 4 females
seeded buds are indeed a bit aerier and mainly leafier(altough those leaves also have plenty of trichomes), but an unseeded bud on a plant that also has seeded buds is not airier and leafier, with just a few seeds it's also not noticably airier and leafier

 

[weedemon]

when i first got into it, it was $35 for a 3.5 g bag never was the full 3.5 though cause the guy who grabbed for me always smoked one before it got to me.

then i moved out of a small town and went to live in the city. I got used to 200 oz of stuff that was generally far superior than anything i would get back home.

never any strain names back then either.

now it's all high grade strains and i gotta say i love the variety of them all! (not that there wasn't variety back when there were no names it just was never near this level)

 

[vapirtoo]

Almost all of the exotic that I get in NYC is some kind of Kush which I believe is
indica dominant - body high; I would love to get that trippy sativa type herb, but here
in black market NYC who really knows what you are getting. My hook-up says he
has some "critical mass" which is a what?!?

 

[djonkoman]

critical mass is probably a bit indica dom, at least theres a bit nore indica then sativa in its heritage
http://en.seedfinder.eu/strain-info/Critical_Mass/Mr_Nice_Seedbank/
seedfinder can be really handy especially since it lists the heritage

 

[mariner]

Started with stuff imported in hard pressed bales fished out of the Gulf ("Save the Bales, Save the Bales"!) in the early southern 1960's. Since then, I've been lucky enough to sample wares from many countries while passing through their harbors. From Africa (fine, dense but fully seeded red-hair stuff that assisted my sanity for a time in the eighties, and at a cost of about $2/oz...) to Asia (on a visit to Thailand), from South and central America to Alaska.... Its All good!
Lets all say thanks to the horticulturists among us, today, for the wonderful and massive improvements in strains, in production, quality, taste and in the high!

 

[CDWard]

I started smoking in the late 60s.

Mostly what we got was crap. In southeastern Michigan then there was a wide range of stuff being sold. At the very low end there was crap people harvested from old stands of industrial hemp. A substantial notch up was the Mexican weed of the time. Sometimes it was bricked, sometimes not. I lived in an area with a large Mexican-American population, though, and often we got relatively fresh stuff of very passable quality.

The real deal in the beginning though, was hashish. Seemed like Michigan was awash in hash when I was young. Might have been the Middle Eastern population in the Detroit area. Anyhow we saw a lot of hash from Lebanon and some from Afghanistan now and then. The hash usually went for about $5 per gram retail. In Ann Arbor it could often be had for half that.

A few years later we began to see ganja from Jamaica that went for around $180-200 per pound. Usually it was unpressed and pretty good stuff. One time we got cartons of pre-rolled Jamaican joints -- packaging looked just like legit Brit cigarettes. Rothman I think. Then the Colombian started coming around. I recall vaguely seeing it in about '72, but the real deal hit in '74. I remember going over to my guy's place in Ann Arbor. He opened the fridge and offered two different cuts. I picked the one that smelled the nicest. It had a bouquet reminiscent of the old time hashish. We shared about half a joint before I floated out the door barely able to navigate with two pounds shoved into my knapsack.

After that, though, the quality of the Colombian became a lot spottier. The price stayed about the same, but the growers weren't producing as high quality a product. The hash stayed good well into the 80s, though.

 

[los]

yes I pay close attention to hermi's, don't want hermi-offspring
first year growing I eventually had only 1 pure male, multiple females and multiple hermi's that I al killed
last year I had one slight hermi, after the first female flowers(not preflowers, she was already in reak flower) she got some male flowers, 2 at every internode
I pinched them of, and after that no male flower the entire flowercycle

had 2 males last year, 1 of each strain, and 4 females
seeded buds are indeed a bit aerier and mainly leafier(altough those leaves also have plenty of trichomes), but an unseeded bud on a plant that also has seeded buds is not airier and leafier, with just a few seeds it's also not noticably airier and leafier

what are your growing conditions? it could be that you are stressing your girls out in some type of way, stress can have a big impact on a garden.

Almost all of the exotic that I get in NYC is some kind of Kush which I believe is
indica dominant - body high; I would love to get that trippy sativa type herb, but here
in black market NYC who really knows what you are getting. My hook-up says he
has some "critical mass" which is a what?!?

nyc is definitely dominated by the kush's but there are some great hazes out in nyc too as a matter a fact theres some haze in my lb right now lol. i actually prefer the kush body high but i like to switch it up every now and then. ran into some sour haze not so long ago and have kept it in rotation. i love to vape haze....its so tasty, just herbal awsomeness

 

[djonkoman]

outdoor, that first year that I had a lot of hermi's was indeed a bit more stressfull(first pregrew then behind the window then transplanted outside), but those seeds were also prone to hermi's, since the breeder(not the creator but the one currently reproducing the strain) grows them outside too, woth a lot of plants close together, and he lets the plants dust themselves, so altough he does weed out hermi's it's very likely he'll miss a few
but I had anticipated that, I wanted to end with 5 plants(the semilegal amount here where you aren't prosecuted if you're busted), and I even had to elliminate at least one female(wich was a dwarf btw)
that was also my first grow(except from 1 small plant in my room while I knew nothing about growing yet), and the harvest lasted me a year round so in my eyes that grow was pretty successfull(much better as this year...)

last year I started them right outside(n the full soil) to minimize stress and give optimal space to the roots

 

[los]

outdoor, that first year that I had a lot of hermi's was indeed a bit more stressfull(first pregrew then behind the window then transplanted outside), but those seeds were also prone to hermi's, since the breeder(not the creator but the one currently reproducing the strain) grows them outside too, woth a lot of plants close together, and he lets the plants dust themselves, so altough he does weed out hermi's it's very likely he'll miss a few
but I had anticipated that, I wanted to end with 5 plants(the semilegal amount here where you aren't prosecuted if you're busted), and I even had to elliminate at least one female(wich was a dwarf btw)
that was also my first grow(except from 1 small plant in my room while I knew nothing about growing yet), and the harvest lasted me a year round so in my eyes that grow was pretty successfull(much better as this year...)

last year I started them right outside(n the full soil) to minimize stress and give optimal space to the roots

hermis are genetic or are a result of the growing conditions, imho if you are growing outdoors you should not pack em in, roots need space....they will battle it out for nutrients and what not. remember the roots will search and seek out that in which they lack ie n, p, k, mag, ect ect. packing em in is good for scrog and sog under ideal conditions jmho. if he is trying to produce seeds then i can see letting them dust themselves but if he is producing mj for smoking/vaping it makes no sense, i call that neglect lol. be careful, good luck and i hope you get what you want out of your garden!

if you ever have a ? on this feel free to shoot me a pm or an email.