The Magic-Flight Box

[magiclight]

I found a cool battery holder at my local electronics store. It is one of the electronic component isle finds. A replacement 8 battery double AA case thing. Use a small dot to indicate the charged side and cycle four batteries, moving them to the back as they die. I taped up all the metal just in case.

I found that cutting them right at the line makes it easier to clean and keep track of which brand you are using. Just rub it with a rough rag, round and round til the stickiness is gone.

 

[magiclight]

This next test demonstrates the effect on temperature of a "normal" draw -- ie that which is obtained from a person who is encountering the Box for the very first time and which has not otherwise been trained or instructed. People usually draw too fast when they are using the Box for the very first time, thus resulting in a cool off below the range generally useful for vaporization. As such, we encourage people to try drawing "very slow", and "slower than you might expect" when using the Box for the very first time. These directions, and better, an in-person demonstration of the correct draw rate goes a long way to improving the chances that someone will get effects when first "testing" the Box. Without this guidance (ie for those people who insist on trying the Box without reading the directions), there is a much greater chance that they will not feel the Box as "effective".

http://magic-flight.com/t15_normal_draw_06.gif

I took some photos through the mouthpiece hole to match up with this graph.
May be useful for someone working on their technique.

 

[stickstones]

Great stuff, MF, as always! It must be cool to have the things you need to do this kind of research.

A question...the draw rate effects temperature at the bowl or trench of any vaporizer. Are you saying that the box is unique because it can reheat up so quickly? If I understand correctly, you are saying that other units take too long to keep the temp at set levels to react this way.

In my non-scientific experience, the Ion seems to have the most accurate digital temp display of anything I have used. Have you guys tested this unit for temp accuracy?

 

[magicflight]

1: my La Crosse smart charger came with two batteries. I wanted to know if anyone's tried peeling the batteries ... Do they fit okay in the LB?

Surprisingly, some battery manufacturers change their specifications fairly frequently -- we have not tested the La Crosse batteries recently enough to be able to advise you for sure that they would fit. If other people have more informed opinions, perhaps they will comment.

2: the acrylic stem ... got hot and smelled a little funky. ... I don't really like using it "natively" (without the stem). ... yet every instinct in me tells me the stem is not safe ... Just lookin for some opinions on that I guess.

We have received one report similar to yours previously. Turns out the unit was defective -- the draw hole was drilled wrong. Probably the same thing in your case, making it a warranty issue (therefore, if you really cannot use it naively, you should probably contact us privately so we can have it replaced).

Speaking of opinions, we are also interested in gathering some in regards to this. Now that we are established a bit, we can start looking at putting together some sort of "upgrade" package. One of the things on that list is to change the stem from acrylic to stainless. We have tried glass and unfortunately, it has not been working out -- there is too much variability in the size to make it practical from a manufacturing point of view. Stainless makes a good choice because it has low heat conductivity and can take a pretty polish. However, our concerns is that people have gotten used to a clear stem that you can see through -- and thus would not like it. Any thoughts?

-- Magic-Flight

 

[magicflight]

...One of my batteries got fried by my charger (the one with the small blue LED screen) ...

Over the last month, our supplier of battery chargers has become a bit "flaky" due to various events (this sort of thing happens), and has been sending us a several different models for bundling with the box. (Note, we are not in the charger making business -- we do not make the chargers -- we provide them as a convenience so that people can use the Box if they do not already have one). As such, we suspect that the quality of the chargers is far more variable than we would like. If people are having issues with the charger, they need to contact our customer service department so that we can help.

In the interim, we have the following recommendations regarding using battery chargers in general:.

- 1) If you can, use the batteries until the light goes out before putting them back into the charger.

- 2) Once the batteries are charged, do not let them remain in the charger more than a day or so.

- 3) Be sure to place the batteries in the charger firmly and in the correct orientation. Also do not
let the batteries touch each other when inserted or removed.

-- Magic-Flight

 

[magicflight]

I took some photos through the mouthpiece hole to match up with this graph....

It Looks Fabulous! Thank you for the cool graphic!

Edit: your username is so similar to mine that I had to look twice to confirm that I had not mistakenly quoted the wrong person lol

EDIT2: I have also just realized, from the note about the graphs being read backward, that the image you posted has the same mistake. The graph image needs to be flipped left to right and the labels/pictures re-associated. When I first looked at this, I honestly had only enough time to glance at it and say "looks cool" before having to more on to other correspondence. Is there any chance you could re-post it with the necessary changes?

 

[Q_]

I personally see no advantage to stainless. It would probably be heavier and slightly less stealthy. Some people might prefer the look, I guess, or feel more comfortable about toxicity.

Have you ever tried increasing the area of contact between the screen and the herb? It might cook more evenly and require less shaking between hits. I'm not sure how that could be done though -- maybe two smaller trenches instead of one. *shrug*

 

[momofthegoons]

Before I voice my opinion on the new stem idea, I want to say that I feel Magic Flight has one of the best customer service/appreciation/attitudes that I have ever seen. Almost every time I read this thread, they are honoring their warranty in some way. They are constantly striving to improve their product, the warranty and effort to keep customers happy is amazing, well...I could go on and on. Rarely does a manufacturer stand behind it's product to this extent. And the flight box itself is so efficient and stealthy. Gotta love it. Thank you for being such a great company.

I'm not sure how I feel about a stainless stem. My first inclination is to say no. I always preferred wooden pipes to metal pipes when I used to combust for the simple reason it felt better on my lips. Now, I can't say I ever tried a stainless pipe and that could be quite different, but the metal pipes I did try seemed as if they imparted a metallic taste to the herb as well as not feeling particularly pleasant to the lips. I'm very satisfied with the acrylic stem and also have the whip that MF sells, which I also like. Just my

 

[magicflight]

It must be cool to have the things you need to do this kind of research.

It is. Took a really long time to get to this point, but now it is rather satisfying and fun. It is our hope to be able to continue to do innovative work in this area for a long time.

A true Knowledge of What IS enables us all to live more interesting and more meaningful lives. Therefore, in the interests of promoting increased health, quality, and richness in all of Life, we aim to do our part.

A question...the draw rate effects temperature at the bowl or trench of any vaporizer. Are you saying that the box is unique because it can reheat up so quickly?

Correct.

...that other units take too long to keep the temp at set levels...

Its not just that, it is also that they do not (and cannot) cool off quickly enough either -- and that this is also very important.

In a vaporizer heating unit, there are three things that are required: 1) to get from cold to hot when needed, 2) to maintain the correct temperature in the load, and 3) to cool off back to room temp when done.

The trouble with most vaporizer designs is that they take too long to get hot and then once hot, remain hot -- anything loaded in them will continue get vaporized, even if you are done and do not want any more vapor at that moment. This is inefficient, as any vapor that is produced and not consumed will be wasted. The usual approach to solving this problem is mechanical -- which is problematic since moving something which is hot is its own hazard.

There is also the question of knowing for sure that the temperature on the digital readout is the actual temperature of and on the loaded materials. Despite the apparent simplicity, this is actually a very tricky problem and not at all easy to achieve. Of the desktop units we have tested so far, we have observed that there can easily be a 50F difference between the digital reading and the actual herb temp, regardless of the draw rate. This is not just a function of transient shifts either -- we tested using constant form draw rates from zero flows to maximum, allowing for several minutes of stabilization time in each case. As I have mentioned elsewhere, trying to get the "exact right temperature" is really something that can only be done in a lab with special built equipment. Fortunately, this is rarely required in actual practice -- these desktop units DO work properly, after all.

In regards to the specific question about the Ion, we have not tested that unit particularly. If someone wants to send us one, we could let you know what we find.

-- Magic-Flight

 

[HighVibes]

1: my La Crosse smart charger came with two batteries. I wanted to know if anyone's tried peeling the batteries ... Do they fit okay in the LB?

Surprisingly, some battery manufacturers change their specifications fairly frequently -- we have not tested the La Crosse batteries recently enough to be able to advise you for sure that they would fit. If other people have more informed opinions, perhaps they will comment.

2: the acrylic stem ... got hot and smelled a little funky. ... I don't really like using it "natively" (without the stem). ... yet every instinct in me tells me the stem is not safe ... Just lookin for some opinions on that I guess.

We have received one report similar to yours previously. Turns out the unit was defective -- the draw hole was drilled wrong. Probably the same thing in your case, making it a warranty issue (therefore, if you really cannot use it naively, you should probably contact us privately so we can have it replaced).

...One of the things on that list is to change the stem from acrylic to stainless. Any thoughts?

-- Magic-Flight

Oh wow, well I mean I'm able to use it without the stem just fine actually. Do you think it would help if I took some close-up pics of the draw hole to help you determine if its defective? I mean, besides the stem melting it works great. Also, I've seen a few reports on here of the shoulders of the screen slightly sagging down towards the bottom of the box. I have this problem as well. The shoulder (the raised, flat part of the screen on either side of the trench) on one side of the trench is sagging slightly (maybe like 2 millimeters, 3 at most), but I tried lightly pushing on it with the handle end of my little brush that came with it, and its seems pretty stable. Idk whats holding it up, cuz its definitely slightly out of the groove, maybe just friction. Anyways I'm going to post up some pictures of the draw hole and the screen today or tomorrow, so you can get a better idea of the severity of my problems, cuz honestly it doesnt really affect the performance of the box as far as I can tell. I could lie, and say it hardly works, but I'm an honest man and dont really have the need for another box if the one I have works just fine, lol.

On the subject of a stainless steel stem, part of me thinks its a great idea. Having plastic so close to the heat source is quite dangerous in terms of toxins and chemicals in my opinion. I know I said earlier that I like using it with the stem better, but now that I think about it, I'd rather use it without the stem anyways, because of the fact that its plastic. But on the other hand, as goons said, metal might give the vapor an undesirable metallic taste. I guess its the fact the stem is so close to the heat source that makes it such a complicated issue. Wood would be ideal, but it doesnt really have the strength to hold up such a thin cylindrical shape. The only real solution I can see to this is to extend the length of the box by another inch and put extra length between the trench and the draw hole, thus lowering the vapor more distance and time to cool off before reaching the draw hole. That way, you could keep the acrylic stem (in my opinion).

Lastly, to all the launch box users here on FC, I'm really looking for some insight as to whether the La Crosse batteries will work or not. About a week ago, I ordered a 4-pack of Sanyo eneloops and a La Crosse charger. For some reason they were shipped separately, so I already received the charger a few days ago, which came with two batteries, and I have yet to receive my Sanyo Eneloops. The reason I ordered more batteries was because one of the two batteries that came with my launch box went defective on me, so I've only had one battery the last couple weeks. I really wanna use the La Crosse batteries to hold me over till my Eneloops get here, but idk how well they peel, and how well they fit...

Should I post my own thread about it in the "Ask FC" section, so that select few people that have the La Crosse charger will have a better chance of seeing my dilemma? Thanks

 

[magicflight]

I personally see no advantage to stainless. It would probably be heavier and slightly less stealthy.

True, there is the possibility that the polish would 'flash' when used outside in direct sunlight.

Have you ever tried increasing the area of contact between the screen and the herb?

Yes, we have. Extensively. It turns out that the shape, size, and angles of orientation all matter. A lot. Surprisingly, these additional aspects make the surface area of contact factor one somewhat less important in the overall design. The critical dimensions have more to do with time rate of change in the degree of criticality due to the degree of enclosure as seen from different points in the chamber. It is more of an IR effect than a surface of contact effect. This sort of esoterica can quickly get rather complicated to explain.

-- Magic-Flight

 

[majorpayne66]

The only benefit I see in stainless is that it is stronger then acrylic and might look nice with the batteries but I would keep the acrylic stem because It is nice to see if the stem needs to be cleaned or not.

Options are good though!, Give us options in a kit and everyone will be happy.

I myself, when I carry the box in my pocket, I use a 3" soft black tube (whip) because I worry I may break the acrylic stem in my pocket. I save the acrylic for home use.

Thanks to Majicflight for the graphs, Im now a mini hitter.
Thanks to MajicLIGHT for the pics, Great first posts !

 

[magicflight]

Do you think it would help if I took some close-up pics of the draw hole to help you determine if its defective?

Its not necessary -- given your clear interest in doing the right thing, we have even more reason to trust. The mere fact of your report being consistent with the details of our earlier experience is enough for us to have a reasonable sense of what happened. Our QA department is good, but not perfect. We know what to check for, but occasionally mistakes are made. This is why we put our warranty in place.

My suggestion would be to use the box Native for a little while and see how things go. If it does not work out, contact us privately and we will issue a replacement. If you do contact us, be sure to mention your FC username.

-- Magic-Flight

 

[rayski]

- 1) If you can, use the batteries until the light goes out before putting them back into the charger.

If I first use the discharge mode when I charge a battery, would it matter as much if I don't use the batteries to the point that the light goes out? My unit predates the light.

 

[IAmKrazy2]

Rayski, that's what I do. I let the battery discharge on my La Crosse. It will take a while, but likely better for the battery then using it till the end via the MFLB.

MF, those graphs are awesome. Basicly, blew my mind when i looked them over. Very cool. You guys still rank up there for best customer service. I think we are lucky in the vaporizer industry cause if you know where to look, there is some stellar vapes out there with stellar customer service. keep on keeping on.

MF, one questions if you can answer. You said several new products on the distant horizon, very cool. Is one of these the wall and cig lighter adapter? Just wondering if that was still something that might be possible. Thanks,

 

[B.]

I personally see no advantage to stainless.

The clear stems can't be soaked in alcohol, but stainless can be, and that glorious reclaim in the stem can be harvested very easily with stainless soaked in ISO.

If a stainless stem were to be offered I'd buy it, but I love new toys and I'll probably buy any new accessories you guys offer up




I spent the weekend in Chicago, my home town, and went out to the bars with friends. I hit the box in front of my buddies, some of whom had used it with me in the past, I blew the hits in their faces, and they had no clue. Ninja vape FTW.

 

[indigal]

Got another quick endorsement of the box.. My older sister came out from the east coast to visit. She's almost 50, long time smoker. She was staying at a golf course condo, and couldn't light up without fear of the neighbors reporting her.. so, when I came to visit and brought out the new toy to show her, she was really interested!

She's never vaped. A minute of explaining how the box & vapes in general work and it was a hit! I got a note this weekend saying as soon as they got back home, she ordered one!

She was soo happy with the box, all night it was "I think it's time to vaporize!"

It was a fun visit!
I just really like how accessible this is to people that have never vaped before.

 

[VivaSativa]

If the stainless wouldn't interfere with the taste of the vapor and won't have a taste you can feel on the lips, and would fit the hole as firmly as the acrylic, then I'd love it for the ability to soak it in ISO.

 

[Q_]

Have you ever tried increasing the area of contact between the screen and the herb?

... the surface area of contact factor somewhat less important in the overall design... due to the degree of enclosure as seen from different points in the chamber. It is more of an IR effect than a surface of contact effect.

Thanks, that makes sense. It's unintuitive that IR would matter more than conduction, but I can believe it. You could get more IR heat coming from above, but that would require either moving parts (which are awkward and sometimes unreliable) or having a permanent screen above (making it really hard to load/empty the box). The current solution seems about right, with some heat radiating down from the upper part of the trench I would guess.

 

[DeepFried]

Lastly, to all the launch box users here on FC, I'm really looking for some insight as to whether the La Crosse batteries will work or not. About a week ago, I ordered a 4-pack of Sanyo eneloops and a La Crosse charger. For some reason they were shipped separately, so I already received the charger a few days ago, which came with two batteries, and I have yet to receive my Sanyo Eneloops. The reason I ordered more batteries was because one of the two batteries that came with my launch box went defective on me, so I've only had one battery the last couple weeks. I really wanna use the La Crosse batteries to hold me over till my Eneloops get here, but idk how well they peel, and how well they fit...

Should I post my own thread about it in the "Ask FC" section, so that select few people that have the La Crosse charger will have a better chance of seeing my dilemma? Thanks

I'll answer for you... you're a towel!

seriously, the batteries came free with the charger, peel one already and try it out. The amount of time you spent asking this question 3 times over you could have worked instead to make enough to buy 10 more if you fucked up the free battery.

Show some human compassion and don't start a thread about this.

mod note: "All members must be treated in a respectful and adult manner...Please do not post any messages that harass, insult, belittle, threaten or flame another member."

 

[Beezleb]

Community advice!

I recently bought another LB as I gifted my last one. Not counting a beta, which I have as prize piece, this is my 3rd. Well I went to take it on holiday and forgot my charger, talk about a kick in the nutz. I go to use my batteries, well somehow I did not charge them as I thought I had done. Kick in the nutz number II. Having to smoke and be discreet about it on a holiday, not priceless, well unless its just a kick in the nutz your looking for!

Moral of the story!
Do Not Pack your magic Flight Launch Box stuff while you are really vaped. It only leaves you with crushed nuts. So learn from my agony, angry lungs and general foolishness and pack your shit clear headed and protect your nuts!

 

[heartvapor]

It is possible to use the Box to try to separate out different components while in use. However, the Box itself was not really designed for that process -- actually the opposite is somewhat more the case. To get just one component at a time, a desktop unit would probably be a better choice, even though there are none on the market now that have anywhere near the accuracy that would be needed. To really do this right, you would need lab gear.

Of course I wouldn't expect extreme accuracy, considering the vaporization temperature is dependant on my breathing. But according to your graphs, it seems that I should be able to get it around 320F or so by pulling a little faster, getting mostly THC and less CBD, giving more of a head high. And then I could revape later, and since more THC than CBD is gone, it would give more of a body high.

From reading almost all of your posts, it seems that you can't really comment on anything related to illegal uses of the product, but if you could give some insight to this using other terms, as you always do, I would really appreciate it.

Regarding the graphs, they're a little confusing. You said that the first graph, http://magic-flight.com/nd_t05_05.gif , that the battery was applied for 5 seconds, but the x-axis on the graph shows the battery being pulled out after about 22 seconds. Are the marks on the x-axis wrong, or am I completely misunderstand this, and actually a bunch more, of the graphs?

The second and third graphs show the Box reaching 390-400F after about 11-12 seconds. Well the third graph shows the battery being pulled out (I'm assuming that's what the sudden drop is) 1 or 2 seconds later, but it doesn't look like 15 on the x-axis. What does the temperature graph look like if you left the battery in longer? Does it continue climbing at the same exponential rate, until it combusts whatever's inside?

Also, the fifth graph, that demonstrates the steady draw rate, shows the Box reaching 396F after only about 5 seconds. How is that possible, considering the other graphs that show 390-400 being reached after 10-15 seconds?

For some reason, I always thought it was bad to wait for there to be vapor inside the box, because I figured it would get too hot and start to burn the weed. So because of this, I usually start pulling as soon as I put the battery in. Is there a problem with that? Will it not reach the ideal temperature range? Do you have a graph (or, would you be able to make one) that shows how a steady draw rate that starts as soon as (or even right before) the battery is connected affects the temperature? Basically the same as these graphs, but with the steady drawing starting at t=0.

If someone other than magicflight is able to clarify the graphs for me, then please do!

Magicflight, thanks a lot for the detailed response and all the graphs. I'm gonna try micro-hitting out right now!

 

[HighVibes]

Lastly, to all the launch box users here on FC, I'm really looking for some insight as to whether the La Crosse batteries will work or not. About a week ago, I ordered a 4-pack of Sanyo eneloops and a La Crosse charger. For some reason they were shipped separately, so I already received the charger a few days ago, which came with two batteries, and I have yet to receive my Sanyo Eneloops. The reason I ordered more batteries was because one of the two batteries that came with my launch box went defective on me, so I've only had one battery the last couple weeks. I really wanna use the La Crosse batteries to hold me over till my Eneloops get here, but idk how well they peel, and how well they fit...

Should I post my own thread about it in the "Ask FC" section, so that select few people that have the La Crosse charger will have a better chance of seeing my dilemma? Thanks

I'll answer for you... you're a towel!

seriously, the batteries came free with the charger, peel one already and try it out. The amount of time you spent asking this question 3 times over you could have worked instead to make enough to buy 10 more if you fucked up the free battery.

Show some human compassion and don't start a thread about this.

Excuse me if I want to dont want to possibly waste a good battery, when I could've just found out beforehand from somebody on here. Gee, I'm REALLY sorry for just asking for some advice.. way to be a dick... and oh yea. I started a thread about this and got my answer within a few minutes.

mod note: Have you not read the rules? Flaming is not allowed.

 

[B.]

peeling the battery won't waste it. If you need to just wrap it in electrical tape or something.

unless they're the biggest aa's ever they'll fit.

EDIT: holier than thou preaching removed, mods comment above does the job much better.

 

[stark1]

A note to M_F:

The higher heat conductivity of stainless (compared to acrylic) may well have at least one (or two) owners of hawt! LB to complain of burnt lips....

Acrylic may become toxic when overheated (if accidentally), glass (which can easily break) is inert.

So, the choice of stem is a delicate balance between health benefits, and other factors.

Possible solution. Why not redesign the "box" from boxy, to an elegant elongated (at the output) oval which would "fit" into the palm of one's hand.

This would eliminate the need for a stem. No glass. No acrylic. No (hawt!) stainless.

My to pence.