The Lotus Vaporizer

[filteredhead]

Wanted to let everyone know that I really appreciate all of the help and sharing here. It was especially great to read Max Jitter's timely explanation of annealing as part of cap assembly process, and having had a look under-the-hood of Natural Farmer's vapor cap. Thanks again NF, I see that your used cap is not charred at all like my used cap.

I suspect most of the charring on my old cap happened long ago when I played with very long flame sizes and very long hits, whereas my typical method is to use a smaller 1/2" flame size and take draws mostly in the 10 to 20 second range. Not sure if my typical method would create new charring so planning to do some testing...

Today I sanded away most of the charring from my old V2 cap and blew out the dust particles. I plan to use it with my typical method for a week or two then will inspect it again to see if there is new charring.

Also, on bottom left is a ring pattern cut from PTFE film (500F oil slick teflon sheet). I am thinking to possibly try it later on as a make shift heat shield to go underneath the nickel plate.

 

[t-dub]

Also, on bottom left is a ring pattern cut from PTFE film (500F oil slick teflon sheet). I am thinking to possibly try it as a make shift heat shield to go underneath the nickel plate.

I would consult with @Max Jitter to make sure the temperature in that area does not exceed the design specs of the Teflon . . .

 

[filteredhead]

Good point, i just looked up an online doc that mentions wood charring is often reported at temps of 550F (http://www.doctorfire.com/low_temp_wood1.pdf), so I guess the 500F PTFE film would not be a good heat shield for that cap area.

I would probably try a hop-up part heat shield type ring made from carbon fiber sheet or something else if MT/Lotus offered it as extra added wear-n-tear protection from long duration hits and high-heat of single/multi-flame jet torch lighters.

For now I am using the old cap stock without the PTFE ring and will see what new charring appears in a couple weeks taking medium sized hits with the smaller flame.

 

[David and Michael]

I would consult with @Max Jitter to make sure the temperature in that area does not exceed the design specs of the Teflon . . .

Please don't use a PTFE ring under the hot plate. At that high a temp it will produce gasses that you don't want to inhale.
And yes, we are working on a high temp model for all of you that like to red line your engines (metaphorically speaking). It will be a while till it sees the light of day.

 

[Snappo]

Good point, i just looked up an online doc that mentions wood charring is often reported at temps of 550F (http://www.doctorfire.com/low_temp_wood1.pdf), so I guess the 500F PTFE film would not be a good heat shield for that cap area.

I would probably try a hop-up part heat shield type ring made from carbon fiber sheet or something else if MT/Lotus offered it as extra added wear-n-tear protection from long duration hits and high-heat of single/multi-flame jet torch lighters.

For now I am using the old cap stock without the PTFE ring and will see what new charring appears in a couple weeks taking medium sized hits with the smaller flame.

Are you circling your flame so that it touches the edge of the dimple, or staying real close to the bulls eye?

 

[filteredhead]

My typical method is to use a 1/2" flame and keep tip close to cap and well within the dimple area, not directly on bulls eye but circling tightly around it. But then early on when I was experimenting with long draws and longer flame sizes (3/4 to 1 inch) i would have to keep the flame tip an inch or two above the cap, suspect that resulted in too much heat radiating to the outer steel ring and char wood underneath.

 

[Snappo]

I've got a V3. Could I get a double-flamer for no burn worries and better performance? TIA

 

[Unisonruss]

Please don't use a PTFE ring under the hot plate. At that high a temp it will produce gasses that you don't want to inhale.
And yes, we are working on a high temp model for all of you that like to red line your engines (metaphorically speaking). It will be a while till it sees the light of day.

Count me in as very interested! I'll buy one the second it's released :-)

 

[BLAZING OG]

Please don't use a PTFE ring under the hot plate. At that high a temp it will produce gasses that you don't want to inhale.
And yes, we are working on a high temp model for all of you that like to red line your engines (metaphorically speaking). It will be a while till it sees the light of day.

Do i need the secret hand shake to get in?

 

[natural farmer]

First cursory review:
Wish I had a vid camera, or phone tripod, but don't right now. Anyway, my first tryout was both OUTSTANDING (Lotus w/OEM stem), and DISAPPOINTING (torch): the torch wouldn't fill/the butane can valve was leaking also...Shit! BUT!!! I did get 3 monstrous hits with the only 3 flames I could get before the torch poofed out. Put in a very small pinch. Good flavor, big vapor, almost spent, dry, but very light ABV...zero scorch! Learning curve must be near zero, and as I said - got my first 3 huge hits with my first and only 3 flames. Seems real easy to use, no fuss no muss. Feels like a Home Run! My heads in a good place now, so I won't stress too much over the faulty torch.


EDIT: I did get the hot plate red dot on all three huge cloudy hits...the vapor wasn't hot and the ABV was light. No scorch. I think the secret to a love affair with the Lotus V3 is to have the right working torch. l believe the Solo stem caps will fit the Lotus bowl, so stowing a session in the pocket with the Lotus cap beside it is a stealth maneuver. If the Solo stem caps don't fit, I'll find something that does.

Congrats on your early success mate! It will only get better!
And you might want to get a dozen of those Honest from dx or elsewhere so you are never left without one. A couple might not work so well but they will do send you good ones if you send them a mail... 20$ for a dozen lighters isn't bad, right?
Oh, and maybe try avoiding putting the vapour cap in a pocket with other objects. The hot plate dents very easily...

On the subject of protection and cases, that @Max Jitter had brought up again I kept forgetting posting some photos to show how well my old Ryot PackRatz works with the Lotus. I don't know about the newer models but should be the same size!
I wonder if @Max Jitter has found anything yet...

EDIT:
This little package and a filled spare lighter in another pocket will last me 2 full days of use as the little SC stash box hold about 2 grams of unpressed herbs and each lighters can usually go through a day.
Now if I press the herbs in the container and squeeze 8-10 grams of ground herbs and add a small butane can in the mix it becomes a week's pack or even more! If you are left in a field of cannabis plants with that pack you might stay in there for months!

Wake and bake is so nice!!!!!

 

[CheeseSandwich]

Any fellow Canadians that have purchased anything from Mendocino Therapeutics? Just curious if you got tracking info when you did? I've been hitting the post office daily on the lookout for my vapor cap. So excited to get this thing.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations Max Jitter,

Please don't use a PTFE ring under the hot plate.

Well, 1st of all i'll jump on this new opportunity to repeat that i wish someday it will be possible for me to simply enter a local store to acquire the whole kit at once - after i've got an opportunity to hold it in my own hands, to verify everything works together, among other considerations. When i ordered my HA in 2011 i knew the manufacturer was residing within Canada's borders and yet it was sort of a relief to think i was about to move to another city, shortly after delivery... This explains in part why i'm reluctant to deal with Lotus directly: i prefer to remain private and avoid scrutiny over a foreign parcel (m'yeah, one can become this paranoïd in Harper's country i'm afraid)!



In the meantime, maybe it might seem appropriate to suggest that Lotus offers to condition the wood part located directly under that hot metal plate by submiting it to temperatures reached during normal use. My reasoning is that once darkened i'd expect this wood to gain some insulator properties and hence resolve any remaining issue, eventually.



Does that make sense in practical terms?

...we are working on a high temp model...

Great news, so it's going to be worth the wait in the end, especially if Lotus could also start offering fashion (curved) stem-handles as i don't personally like straight lines too much in a pipe used for relaxation...

So, what about a sexier organic shape?

It will be a while till it sees the light of day.

Then i'll be bold and suggest an even crazier idea: why not develop a coaxial twin bowl concept where a drop of water gets evaporated along the rim with our favourite herb isolated from it in the main center cavity? To implement self-moisturizing since cannabic vapor feels too dry to some of us...



In any case i have high expectations for the future of your Lotus products, Max Jitter!

Good day, have fun.

 

[natural farmer]

@Egzoset , the coaxial bowl sounds interesting, I wonder if it could work in real life...

I also wonder if you feel the dryness with short hits as well? 6-8 sec hits? I always had a major problem with all my precious vapes. The long, slow draws that exposed my teeth, tongue and throat to hot vapour for more that 15 secs, up to 1 min. draws with my Solo. That's why I went the Vapour Lung way at first place... But the Solo also has different vapour signature and it needs a full stem to get me where I need to be. Because of that I vaped a lot more through the Lung and the result to my throat was the same...
The Lotus is the only vape so far that managed to give me very short but at the same time very potent and thick hits with a smaller quantity than most of my previous ones. That's the main reason I have fallen in love with it so much!

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations Natural Farmer,

...I wonder if it could work in real life...

This ain't evident to me neither considering nobody would want any amount of water to migrate into their cannabic bowl, but it happens the Lotus air path is already concentric by design so my impression is that it may be possible to generate moist air along the outer rim (for Inlet Conditioning) before it reaches the higher-temperature primary center area reserved for noble molecules vaporisation: after all, only a tiny amount is required and water turns into vapor at a lower temperature while the Lotus plate gets hotter in the middle and less towards the edge...

I also wonder if you feel the dryness with short hits as well? 6-8 sec hits?

Well, 6 to 8 seconds sounds similar to the duration of an inhalation using my modded VG pipe anyway; depending on load quality i would say. By chance there's moisture present in cannabis though i figure it's gone after 1 or 2 tokes, so it's probable i'd need more.

The long, slow draws that exposed my teeth, tongue and throat to hot vapour...

Uncomfortably hot vapor never bothered me because i just don't allow this to occur in the 1st place!

​

That's why I went the Vapour Lung...

My own initiation to cannabic vaporism was done using ballons and hence heat was suitably managed by simple air expansion. A sufficiently long stem/handle will do fine in pipes but if that's not enough then lets make it convoluted much like a BudBomb.

​

Which reminds me i'd prefer having an inert non-absorbant path for reclaims...

The Lotus is the only vape so far that managed to give me very short but at the same time very potent and thick hits with a smaller quantity than most of my previous ones. That's the main reason I have fallen in love with it so much!

To be perfectly honnest i wish i could have given it some fair try quite a while ago.



It seems we have compatible reasonings: i believe natural moisture has no time to escape (contrary to slow machines) - in the begining. But if it's meant to remain moisturized over multiple "hits" then i wouldn't mind dipping a water-absorbant support attached to the cap after i filled my bowl, thinking only a drop or two will do. Also, when it's still relatively cold it wouldn't start generating moisture immediately, which might be convenient for this hypothetical application, actually...

 

[Snappo]

Salutations Natural Farmer,



This ain't evident to me neither considering nobody would want any amount of water to migrate into their cannabic bowl, but it happens the Lotus air path is already concentric by design so my impression is that it may be possible to generate moist air along the outer rim (for Inlet Conditioning) before it reaches the higher-temperature primary center area reserved for noble molecules vaporisation: after all, only a tiny amount is required and water turns into vapor at a lower temperature while the Lotus plate gets hotter in the middle and less towards the edge...

Well, 6 to 8 seconds sounds similar to the duration of an inhalation using my modded VG pipe anyway; depending on load quality i would say. By chance there's moisture present in cannabis though i figure it's gone after 1 or 2 tokes, so it's probable i'd need more.



Uncomfortably hot vapor never bothered me because i just don't allow this to occur in the 1st place!

​

My own initiation to cannabic vaporism was done using ballons and hence heat was suitably managed by simple air expansion. A sufficiently long stem/handle will do fine in pipes but if that's not enough then lets make it convoluted much like a BudBomb.

​

Which reminds me i'd prefer having an inert non-absorbant path for reclaims...



To be perfectly honnest i wish i could have given it some fair try quite a while ago.



It seems we have compatible reasonings: i believe natural moisture has no time to escape (contrary to slow machines) - in the begining. But if it's meant to remain moisturized over multiple "hits" then i wouldn't mind dipping a water-absorbant support attached to the cap after i filled my bowl, thinking only a drop or two will do. Also, when it's still relatively cold it wouldn't start generating moisture immediately, which might be convenient for this hypothetical application, actually...

Keen minds at work here, to be sure! Now, I often moisturize using a very moist swatch of 100% natural cotton in my female Solo GonG close to the mouth. I know it dissipates the heat of the vapor significantly because I can feel the warmth of the cotton on my lip that lightly touches it. The resulting vapor is cool and unassuming on the throat. I think incorporating a water-drop reservoir into the Lotus cap design might somehow cause heat to dissipate into it somewhat and compromise what's needed for efficient vapor extraction. A hotter flame of longer duration would be needed, and higher temp grade materials would also, I think. Preparation of the cap with a drop of water might also detract from the time and ease involved for each session. The moist cotton swab technique might be adapted to a modified OEM Lotus stem design, and can be left in place for several sessions without the need for frequent attention. Of course, we have our trusty water tools to handle the job as well. Hope I haven't diluted the discussion.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations Snappo,

...I often moisturize using a very moist swatch of 100% natural cotton in my female Solo GonG close to the mouth.

Yes, i can imagine how it works but that's significantly different from inlet conditioning where moisturized air is generated before it enters the cannabic bowl - which is exactly what a VG pipe does by the way, so i guess there's no doubt this could work too. A tiny water evaporator might even fit inside the cap instead of relying on coaxial cavities, but then the operator would need to use a "dropper" i guess...

I know it dissipates the heat of the vapor...

...and also promotes condensation, i figure.

Personally i'd try installing a cotton swab very close past my bowl if i were to test your suggestion, so condensation won't occur within such support precisely; it probably just needs to be donut-shapped in order not to totally obstruct airflow, for a gradual warming of the water.

I think incorporating a water-drop reservoir into the Lotus cap design might somehow cause heat to dissipate into it somewhat and compromise what's needed for efficient vapor extraction.

That's not where i put it initially when refering to a coaxial structure, but then i thought it should be suspended to the cap for convenience (to ease dips) instead, and now i find integration to the cap even more attractive - exactly because heat goes through there first. In fact this water might even have a double function by providing some cooler metal/wood interface (possibly solving all charred wood issues in the process!), don't you agree? I mean, the bowl would be done by the time materials started getting too hot anyway...

...we have our trusty water tools to handle the job as well. Hope I haven't diluted the discussion.

Not at all, but i still favour Inlet Conditioning. Well, as far as i'm concerned the problem i can see with this idea right now has more to do with corrosion.

In any case i'll be glad to evaluate many solutions provided i can manage to get my hands on a Lotus kit someday!...

 

[Snappo]

2nd Review - it'll be short & sweet, just like my new Lotus & travel-size Jacuzzi Bubbler...WOW! What a pair!!! First session was with the Jacuzzi Bubbler, WPA, 1/2 bowl of flowers, and functioning torch. Primed the hot plate with about 2 seconds of 1/2 inch flame which initiates the red dot in the plate dimple. Draw through bubbler and watch the can under my nose milk up quick, and I'm not talking fat free skim milk here; I'm talkin whole with cream! Got two fills like that, and then it thinned a bit on the third hit. Stirred between each. Anyway, that was enough for me the first go round. Sent into orbit! My hand-held bubbler stacked like a popcorn machine gone haywire! Super smooth & cool! ABV was dry and light coffee bean color. I'll put that with my ABV stash. After about an hour, I begin session II with the OEM stem and 1/2 bowl, no packing. Again, I prime the hot plate with 2 seconds of torch, glow begins and I hit it. I can feel my throat and lungs being filled with vapor, more densely than with my Solo...and the exhale reminds me of my big bong lung-busting combustion days of youth, yet it was most bearable without any cough aftermath. 2 hits is all I will really need...I can tell! ABV after stirring between the 2 hits turned out light like before, and could've definitely given more! Taste is more discernible than with the Solo, and just as good, just more of it gets noticed. Ease of use and high performance vapour rule the day with this little masterpiece ensemble. Houston, the Eagle has Landed!!! To the moon and back!

I don't yet have a way to video my Lotus/Bubbler set up, but here's a vid that gives you the idea of how the bubbler stacks:

 

[vorrange]

Got my Lotus since friday night, haven't got time to do more than 5-6 sessions but here go my first impressions.

Very very good build. Solid feel and quite beautifull. I would love if they found a material that didn't stain, though.

The bowl has the perfect size, it is almost too big for me when i want small sessions but it compensates for when i want larger sessions i can pack it loosely to have good airflow.

The heating time is very confortable, roughly 10sec if i'm counting with my mind, still have to test with a real clock.

The taste is great, although the initial hits are more flavourfull with the Vaponic definitly. I still feel some of the wood and the metal, just a hint but i do.

Thickness and duration of taste, very good, one of the best i own due to the large enough bowl, the lighter provides with a powerfull and steady heating ability and the virtually nonexistent conduction allow for the taste to last.


Only problem, you have to master it for the best results. But it is much easier to learn, the Vaponic is a bit more difficult, especially when you're high and in the last hits.

Size is very confortable, and i love to hold it between hits. I still haven't landed on a favorite position to use it, i tried grabing the plate and i like it because it covers it the most, i tried grabing the middle of the stem and i like it a lot too, and i tried grabing underneath, at the end, just the stem and it is quite confortable as well.
So three confortable ways to use it, a pretty good sign.


Oh, and in the last session i didn't grind, and it was my best session, a whole level of taste and it lasts longer which i like. When it starts to get light brown i stir it a bit, and i poke it to break into smaller pieces. Very nice!

All in all, great little device and i'm betting it will replace my HI a few nights a week when i need the instant session or a different more confy feel.

It has the taste, the easiness of use and the efficiency that i prize in all my vapes.

Thank you Max, i'm a happy costumer. Thank you all for your comments and reporting of experiences with it, and especially SoulCaptivesareFree and NaturalFarmer for inadvertedly help me take the plunge.

 

[waw2002]

Hi Im new to FC and had a couple of question for you lotus vets. I live overseas but am moving back to the states soon so I want to get a vap and im torn. I used to have the handcarved vaporgenie and really loved the thing. I was just going to get another one but this lotus looks really nice. I know the new version has a 70% bigger bowl but how does that compare to the vaporgenie.

thanks so much

 

[jambandphan03]

As somebody who has and loves both, I find the Lotus is just a cleaner tasting vape. You don't taste the lighter fuel, since it is not in the air path. I can't compare longevity as my Lotus is still too new, but I do find it to be an improvement over the VG experience to some degree. I do like the look/feel of the hand carved VG, very classic, but the lotus is also a very attractive vaporizer.

 

[natural farmer]

Hi Im new to FC and had a couple of question for you lotus vets. I live overseas but am moving back to the states soon so I want to get a vap and im torn. I used to have the handcarved vaporgenie and really loved the thing. I was just going to get another one but this lotus looks really nice. I know the new version has a 70% bigger bowl but how does that compare to the vaporgenie.

thanks so much

I had a hand carved Genie and it was quite a big hitter. Something in the vapour though, contaminants/additives of the butane maybe, always left my throat in a bad condition. The cooking was not very even as well and the line between cooking and scorching was very thin with a torch lighter. Combustion was way easier as well... With a soft flame lighter or hemp wick it was very slow to give vapour. The wooden pipe finally couldn't be cleaned completely so eventually the taste suffered a lot and it could smell strong in it's pouch.
The Lotus gives me an overall better experience, faster vapour production with less concentration from my part, easier sessions due to the magnetic vapour cap and the attached stirring rod (no screwing-unscrewing all the time...), better/cleaner taste, easier and very thorough cleaning (can be dipped in ISO and wash with hot water), cooler hits (al pipe cools down vapour more effectively than wood), faster cooling down of the hot surfaces (~10 secs), fewer butane fillings (VG used much more butane for me) and finally it can be transformed from a very efficient hand vape to a mighty desktop one with extreme ease thanks to the cleverly designed WA!
I promise you, you won't look back mate. If you read this small thread from the beginning, I doubt you'll find something bad written about the Lotus, especially the new design and you can find numerous comparisons with the VG as well.

EDIT: about the bowl size that you asked for specifically, it's a bit smaller than the VG's, it can hold max ~.2g but works better with less than .1g loads. You will notice an improved efficiency thanks to the smaller bowl as your tolerance will lower and you'll get higher with much less herb. VG was a hog for me, I used too much weed back then... Lotus is more like a powerful log vape! Very efficient and cloudy enough for most of the people...

 

[David and Michael]

Re: Moisturizing/humidifying
The water vapor has to be introduced after the herb is vaporized. Herbal vaporization occurs at 325-350 degrees and water vaporizes at 212 degrees. If the water was placed before the herb, the 325-350 vaporization temperature would not be reached until the water had first disappeared through vaporization. If the water is introduced after the herb, it would cool the vapor from 325 to at least 212 and probably more as the high temperature, low humidity herbal vapor passes over the water.
I think Snappo's idea of a cotton swab around the mouthpiece is the direction to go in.

 

[natural farmer]

Re: Moisturizing/humidifying
The water vapor has to be introduced after the herb is vaporized. Herbal vaporization occurs at 325-350 degrees and water vaporizes at 212 degrees. If the water was placed before the herb, the 325-350 vaporization temperature would not be reached until the water had first disappeared through vaporization. If the water is introduced after the herb, it would cool the vapor from 325 to at least 212 and probably more as the high temperature, low humidity herbal vapor passes over the water.
I think Snappo's idea of a cotton swab around the mouthpiece is the direction to go in.

By cooling down the vapour with the introduction of water, don't we simultaneously increase the amount of condensation of the vapour? Same goes for the cotton. Lots of the bigger vapour/aerosol are getting trapped in the cotton and you can vaporise them afterwards in the bowl. You also get smoother hits in both cases. But doing so, we also loose potency of our hits. I have noticed this both with bubblers and cotton. I need more herb to go where I need to be...

Another thing that was bugging me... @Max Jitter , have you used a sensor to check the temps in the bowl during a draw with the new thicker hot plates? I am sure it goes over 232 C and with a fresh load that isn't so bad ime but how high does it go? With a 1/2" flame and a 5/8" flame? Slow draw, fast draw?

 

[CheeseSandwich]

Just got my Lotus cap in the mail this morning!!!! Filled the wpa half full and got 4 nice & tasty hits
It couldn't have been any easier to use, this thing is BLACK MAGIC I'm in Love!!!!

 

[basement farmer]

By cooling down the vapour with the introduction of water, don't we simultaneously increase the amount of condensation of the vapour? Same goes for the cotton. Lots of the bigger vapour/aerosol are getting trapped in the cotton and you can vaporise them afterwards in the bowl. You also get smoother hits in both cases. But doing so, we also loose potency of our hits. I have noticed this both with bubblers and cotton. I need more herb to go where I need to be...

Good point. It would stand to reason that all kinds of goodies get left behind in the water and it's not exactly your typical, nasty bong water.

I'm all about recycling so would have to save and extract it.