Discussion in 'Plug-in Vaporizers' started by nopartofme, Apr 7, 2013.
Thank you I just purchased one and thought a newer model was on the way.
...it was inevitable....I still enjoy the straight one too...
Hey guys, long time lurker, first time poster, I just made some introductions in the EVO thread since that my daily driver at the moment. But since I'm not a current Herbalizer user, I need some help on whether or not it needs calibrated at the factory or if its just not the vape for me. I owned and used the Herbie as a daily driver for nearly 6 months before receiving the EVO for context, I am NOT coming from EVO to Herbie with fog machine expectations like most. I originally only purchased the EVO+HT kit because I wanted an HT for my herbalizer and thought it would be prudent to have a back-up vape.
I use my herbalizer exclusively on 445 because otherwise i won't get vapor until the third bag.
I use bags only with my Herbie, as whip/whip-to-bubbler and Hydratube via @Ratchett SonG v2.0 even with fan assist produce no visible vapor or effect. I cannot white wall a piece like I have seen in videos on here.
I have already upgraded to SSV tubing, @Ratchett SonG v2.0, I have a Volcano Solid Valve on indefinite loan, I have used the domed screen method and the wax pad reducer methods with little results.
I also go through a TON more herb in the Herbie compared to the EVO, and was hoping that the Herbie would be my efficiency piece but I'm starting to lean more towards selling/trading it for a log.
Keep in mind, that I have an extremely high tolerance and go through 1oz every week.
Glad to join the community!
Here's a few questions that might help with an answer. First, what type of grind are you doing? Do you have the same issues with a full bowl versus a pad reducer or other small load (I've personally struggled getting decent results from less than a full bowl)? Do you get the same results with fresh, clean screens (screen cleanliness seems to be the biggest contributor to best performance)?
I find that the second and third bag tend to be thicker than the first, but even the first bag should produce some visible vapor at 445. Preheating the bowl before loading can help a little with the first bag, especially if you are in a cold room.
I use a medium grind for the Herbalizer. I'm not actually using the pad reducer method to decrease bowl size, but because it seems to help with vapor production even when the bowl is filled up to the line. Clean screens are a non-issue for me as I use ceramic tweezers and torch mine clean multiple times a day while rotating them between sessions.
I've recently started experimented with pre-heating the bowl with mixed results, i find that the herbalizer is really a convection/conduction vape personally, because that SS sleeve in the bowl needs to get hot and stay hot to function right.
I'm more concerned with the fact that for such an expensive hybrid vape, only the bag method produces sufficient results for me, and I don't even like bag vapes. Coupled with fact that it function best with the solid valve, just doesn't seem quite right. As far as whip functionality goes, I've used 7th Floor whip vapes before and were more impressed vapor wise than the Herbie.
Nothing I've tested tastes as good as an Herbalizer though, and the temp control is a huge plus. But, I thought this would be the "medical" vape, but honestly, I don't see this as a particularly good vape for someone for a patient that's not a part of the scene, because of the near necessity of user created mods and hacks to get it working. Someone convince me that I NEED this device in my lineup, when a used volcano (bags) and an e-nano (direct draw like whip) are what my insides are telling me to trade/sell this for.
EDIT: Is this all starting to sound like I should get my Herbie sent out for repair by chance?
@Enialis In my experience Herbie with a whip should definitely provide stronger vapor production than a 7th floor vape. Seems like you should get decent performance with what you're trying based on what you're describing. I think it is at least worth reaching out to Herbilizer support.
I'm not exactly sure what you're looking for? I get one thick milky bag from my Herbalizer at 430F when I fill up the herb chamber halfway full. The next bag that I fill is about half the amount of vapour, then the third is pretty much nothing. The first bag contains 75-85% of the goods, so I try to hold it for longer and use the breath out a little breath back in method.
Try taking 2/3 of a lung full of vapour and finish up with air. Exhale until you see visible vapour, then inhale more air. Repeat this process until you see no more vapour.
You've really got to make the most of that first milky bag and not waste the vapour. With your high tolerance you might want to do two bowls and two bags per. You can stir or shake your bowl between bags to try and extract everything out, but once it stops producing vapour at those high temps it's done.
I get about the same results bag wise, but i wouldn't call the vapor on mine milky, more comparable to running my friends Volcano on 370, while the Herbalizer is on 445.
I also vape my bags the way you suggest, all on 445 and 3 bags ber bowl, but I find myself going through about 4-5 Herbie bowls in one sitting to get to where I want to be, versus about 2 EVO ELB's filled with far less.
About all I can do with the whip function on my herbie is get some decent flavor clouds, and then to get any respectable high I have to blow bags or finish of the load in my EVO.
Also, I have the Steamroller attachment and get extremely varied results with it as well due to it not being fully airtight unless you have brand new cool-grips.
I'm not much of a sipper, and I think the heat-on-inhale design of the Herbie, while probably saving herbs from overheating while the chamber is not in use, might be part of the reason I preferred some of the other whip style vapes with always-on heaters. With both stock herbie and SSV tubing cut down to about 8" it takes more primer puffs than my lungs can handle to get the heat flowing.
EDIT: Main reason I want to get these questions answered is because I don't know if its work properly or not. If it is, no big deal, it was my first high-end vape and I will always remember it fondly, but if not it might be better off passing it on to another vaper than letting it collect dust indefinitely in a "collection" I can't afford.
Your herbalizer sounds like it's running properly. You're getting what I would call normal vapour production. It honestly could be that your tolerance is too high and you need to back off your amount per session until it's more reasonable, like 2 bowls per session rather than 4-5. OR you could switch to using concentrates but that quickly leads to further diminishing returns. I find that one can only get so high from vaping flowers and concentrates can really provide the extra kick needed.
The Herbalizer is one of my vapes that I'll never get rid of as it was my first vape and has been used daily since I got it 3 years ago. It's still purring away and heats up like it did day one. It's never been serviced and has yet to fail me. I might get some more vapes in the future but the Herbalizer will always have a place in my collection.
Perhaps it's not what you're looking for in a vapour experience? I'm not sure what else to suggest if you're making thick cloudy bags @ 445 and holding in the vapour for the correct amount of time. The only step forward is concentrates.
IMO, a properly sealed Steamroller or Hydratube will give you the biggest rips, that can even include using the fan with it.
I realize you probably hate buying an accessory at this point BUT our own @Ratchett at Delta 3D Studio makes a Herbie Song that makes a 100% seal with Steamroller or Hydratube.
Herbalizer Vaporizer WaterPipe Adapter v2.0
IMO, using a Hydratube with warm water and the fan gives the biggest delivery possible
I do find that Herbie vapor is less milky than others high end vapes BUT gets one more medicated.
To me, the vapor has an almost blue tint to it and is less visible but just as potent.
?? Did you buy it new, I assume?? A rare few Herbies became mis-calibrated after use. Mine was one.
Over a year of use as a "finisher" , to finish herb from other vapes at 445, it seemed odd. Vapor seemed low. Because I use miniVAP Flexicone modules in my Herbie, I could move the module back to the MV and get better vapor at 445 and even 420. And wire mesh basket of Flexi in Herbie felt less hot than in the MV.
I sent it in for a checkup and it was determined to be running too low and was adjusted.
??? Could your be having a problem? Maybe?
Hope you get it sorted out as Herbie is awesome. You should be able to do two potent bowls in Herbie in less time than it takes your EVO to heat up...
Okay. So I got Volcano bags to use with my herbalizer, only thing is...I HAD NO IDEA WHAT I WAS GETTING MYSELF INTO! I tried watching the video for the DIY and it just confused me! I cut a piece of the volcano balloon and it appears to be open on both sides? Surely I am doing something wrong...I don't know what to do at all. The vape critic video shows you using the process after removing the balloon from an easy valve. Not from a roll of bags.
The other DIY video is just a mess with crappy music that is not helpful at all. That person could have at least talked you through the process. Now I'm just lost and hope there is someone here who can explain the process a bit better because this is HARD!
EDIT: Holy shit! This is the most frustrating shit ever! I regret spending my money on these bags! I would rather deal with the leaking vapor! That's how annoying this is! I know I shouldn't post all erratic like this but I'm losing my mind and pulling out my hair. I don't care how long it takes for someone to reply! Just someone please help me! Explain this to me like I'm five! ANYTHING! I just don't want to waste my money and time! I just want to know how to do this...IT'S SO TEDIOUS I MIGHT CRY!!!!
Edit 2: By some mircale I figured this out! About to test it!
Edit 3: Worked like a charm! This is much better than the OEM bags that are packaged with the unit. Not only do the volcano bags do a better job of preserving the flavor, I personally think I get thicker clouds. I usually do 395 F for a wake and bake due to my tolerance and I got satisfactory vapor on the first go. This is unheard of for me. Leakage is really a big deal!!!!
The best part? It stays upright without me having to touch it! I can make a sandwich, get something to drink, go piss, text my girlfriend (if i had one!), get the mail return to the herbie and my bag is ready to go!
The difference between these Storz & Bickel and the OEM bags is like combustion and vaporization!
@Enialis - check your whip for any holes or leaks, but I doubt you will find any.
And you might be huffing too hard on the whip, even though herbie adjusts for that.
I like to use the fan assist with my whip when I want optimal vapor production. For some reason that thing just seems to hit the right speed.
And give the whole nugget method a try. The first hit after the crumble always chokes me out.
As of right now, its the other way around. By the time I've heated the EVO up (mine only takes about 5 minutes) and finished 2 ELB's, im usually not done stirring my first bowl on the Herbie.
I did buy new, directly from manufacturer right before the price drop, was yours from that same time period?
I have the SonG, but my poor lungs can't fill the HT up with any noticeable amount of vapor. Honestly, my Herbie sounds almost exactly like yours! I use it mostly now to fill bags on max to squeeze the last bit out of my AVB.
I do get the trademark blue vapor though, just not until 445.
I've actually gotten some fairly decent results compared to what i usually get by attempting to shove an ELB into the SonG without the Herbie top bowl similar to how you use the flexicone. I know it's probably not airtight, but 3 balloons later and i can still pull vapor from it in the EVO set at 12 o'clock
No leaks! I probably should work on my whip technique, I just don't have the lung capacity to suck long and slow to prime it maybe? I the whole nugget method, its great for flavor but I've never a noticed any other difference on my unit, besides extra stirring.
EDIT: It does look like this is mostly a tolerance issue, and possibly a patience one since the Herbie is more of a session vape. But @MinnBobber has me curious because his problem herbie sounds identical to mine in that its 445 or nothing.
My "low temp" Herbie was from maybe 2 years ago so not a recent one. I have not heard of any recent Herbies having the low temp blues.
You didn't say exactly, how you hit your HT. IMO, you should be doing the fan assist as that gives perfect speed for airflow AND it's a huge huge aid to your lung-power as you mentioned or implied not having big lung capacity. The fan is your friend!
You can also experiment/test your ELB makeshift technique. With the ELB/material in Herbie, do your session and quick feel the ELB---how hot is it? Then do an identical session on the EVO and feel the ELB?
When my Herbie was low temp, the Flexicone wire basket was way cooler on Herbie than on the miniVAP.
I had perfect seal on both however, so was your Herbie ELB getting all the hot air thru it??
Protip: The simplest way to seal the other end of the volcano bag when fitting it to the herbalizer valve is to just twist the end and burn it with a lighter.
I used to get my weed in vacuum sealed containers that you had to cut or rip to open, and you could reseal them by burning it. I realized the volcano bag is made out of that same material saving myself a lot of time and heartache.
Enjoying a leak free vapor session right now with some headband!
Have a look at this mod i made for my Herbie.
I find that i get way thicker vapor as the herb is confined to a small space, there is enough herb for one good hit and a bit.
As you mentioned a hot bowl works best as well but your Herbie should perform better than what you say it does. On Max temp of 229C i get super thick, whitewall vapor every time.
I still want to make up a Stainless Steel sleeve to reduce the bowls diameter more as well.
If i was you i would contact customer support, they may want a video or they will just ask you to send it in for a tuneup! I have been wanting to send mine in for a while now, just the cross border thing annoys me...
Maybe you could post up a video for us to see and gauge your Herbies performance? That may be easier!
I would say the air flows more through the entire ELB since theres more room in there without the herbalizer top bowl. The top of the ELB where the herb winds up is way cooler than the EVO on noon. The bottom is a little hotter simply because its touching the bottom screen.
I hit my HT (HydraBomb) with minimal water and fan assist. I have lung capacity, but not power.
Hitting the HT with the adapter on 445 with fan assist produces blue vapor, but I cant milk it up like i've seen online. it WORKS, but nothing compared to what everyone here has described.
Oooh, like that mod, want to pair it up with an OGB mouthpiece for ultimate flavor rips.
I want to deform an ELB lid later tonight and see if i can mimic the chamber size somehow.
How much proof will they want? I have all of the original packaging still, and have no problem just paying to send it in for a check-up now that I have a back-up vape.
I still think that this vape with one of the tight-pack direct-draw/short whip techniques will never be beat as the best vape for tasting flavor profiles.
If it wind's up being fine and just not being for me, right now, then I'd still want it looked at in case I sold it so I could sell it with some certainty
I would send it in, for peace of mind if anything.
Looks like i have to send mine in as well... Had an epic session, closed the lid and walked away for a few hours. Came back to a rattling fan noise with the lid closed. Must be a faulty switch somewhere in the lid.
Will try and turn it off manually and remember to unplug it... Damn!
I guess she should go in and see her maker as she was one of the first 50 and is still running the very first version of the software! There should be newer versions out by now!
Time to e mail Herbie support!
Herbalizer is having a great sale right now. 17% off Chong's Choice sale price of $499.99. The total is $414.17 with coupon code 17for2017. I just ordered one and sale ends the 15th of this month.
I started using my herrbalizer for a few days and I have a few questions. I started really light at 320 but I don't really see vapor until I hit about 350 and even then it is really thin. Is this normal? Also I have wax and is there a specific way I should use it? I've heard the wax dripping through the pads and I'm concerned I might damage my unit long term. What is the best temp to start using wax?
....320.?..yes it's gonna be light...perfectly normal....concentrates?....all the way up (445)...use two pad method in chamber..
Thanks, how often can I use the pads before they need to be replaced?
I feel like it's worth posting this chart even though most of us have seen it before.
^Click for chart^
The reason you're not seeing much below 350F is you're not really vapourizing/boiling off cannabinoids, terpenes, etc at a high enough rate to get a visible cloud. You can see that THC delta-8, CBD and CBN aren't really at their boiling point until you hit 350-365 F. If you go past the boiling point you're going to be boiling those compounds at an even greater rate, as well as boiling a larger range of compounds at a single time.
So if I'm going for a low temp bag I'll vapourize at 375 F so that everything is boiling away nicely yet it isn't so hot that I'm getting a popcorn flavour on the second bag. This gives me a balance of vapour production, flavour retention, and the lower temperature cannabinoids.
The vapour is thin and wispy because the Herbalizer is a nearly pure convection vapourizer and thus the vapour will always be diluted with the air that was used to produce it. Thickness of vapour can be improved if you use more material, higher temperatures, or more concentrated material. Any one of those variables will get you thicker vapour. Using a bag at 430 is sure to get you some thick vapour on your first fan cycle of the bowl.
Pads are messy and will quickly clog. I'd recommend putting a baby pea sized piece of concentrate in a nest of herb then covering it with a bit more herb. This way the concentrate soaks into the herb and not your screens. When you dump the ABV you should have the plant waxes that didn't vapourize left in the herb. It's those plant waxes that will saturate your pads quickly if not cleaned between every session and cause the screen soaking. There's nothing more rotten than finding out that you soaked your screens, choked off the air flow, and wasted some concentrate (plus those plant waxes can get kinda stale and ruin flavour).
Remember it's always easier to load a little more concentrate if you don't think the first bit was enough. It's a lot harder to clean all your screens, recover the concentrates, and deal with the sticky mess.
This is extremely helpful thank you
Just picked up a herbie off of the classifieds, and boy was it the right choice. Just wanted to get a word in here and say i'm glad to be a part of the herbie club! I think I can finally ditch all of my portables and use this as a daily driver, especially with the ability to fill the room with a nice aroma after a sesh, something I didn't know I needed before this vape
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