The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

[ReggieB]

@OldNewbie - Count me in as another person who thinks each person, regardless of wealth, is entitled to 'legally' use the tax code to their best advantage. That includes using losses to offset taxes for current and future year's earnings. Anyone who has owned/invested in stocks is likely to have worked that angle unless they are batting a 1000.

I also think Drumpf was fond of borrowing money for his enterprises and then declaring bankruptcy when they didn't pan out. Great way to manage his own risk reward profile. Many do it and again ....completely legal.

What I do take offense to is his not releasing his taxes with that BS excuse of an audit because that's what it is....BS. I also take offense to weaseling out on the contractors....it wasn't due to bankruptcy. These are not illegal events but these smell bad.

It's that same kind of thinking that allowed bankers to play with peoples money, lose it and think it's ok, everyone else has to pay for the mistake, bailouts aren't free, they might be legal but to everyone that has to pay for it, they're immoral. So screw the leeches like trump and their legal tax laws.

 

[CarolKing]

Melania Trump is going to address cyber bullying when she is First Lady. What a crock start with your husband!! I really didn't see much of her speech because I didn't want to see it. I just saw a small portion that they highlighted.

I have a lot of anxiety regarding the election but I can't wait for it to be over.

Edit
I would be willing to have Tim Kaine as a president though @t-dub but I don't want Trump or Mike Pence as president. I want the FBI to hold off on any info until after the election. I don't think we will be able to have a do over. There is all kinds of wild speculation online that's why James Comey should have just kept his mouth shut since he didn't release anything. It just caused wild speculation.

If something comes out before the election does that give Bernie any chance - no. It seems a little too convienient for the other side IMO. Hillary being bombarded from all sides. I know she probably brought this on herself. This isn't fair to the democratic voter. I voted for Bernie at my caucus back in April. I already voted by mail a week ago.

 

[t-dub]

I think Trump calling for Russia to hack H's missing e-mails is kinda weird since they are gone now. Now, is it possible the Russians already have them? imho yes. They probably hacked her server a long time ago.

I will bet a virtual poker chip, no cash value, that we see a few more releases of DNC e-mails moving forward and at just the right moment there will be a release of H's missing e-mails, hacked by Russians, from her basement server.

($) . . . one chip.

If the Russians can show right before the election that they had their way with H's server, and the content of the deleted e-mails are work related, possibly classified, and they put her in a bad light, this could really be a game changer for the election.

Well I think I got close enough on these predictions to claim my second virtual poker chip (no cash value). I was a little off target on the sources but generally I did ok. Interestingly enough the polls are changing, the race is getting closer, the electoral map is starting to change.

The FBI is now 99% certain that at least 5 foreign agencies hacked into Hillary’s illegal server.

The FBI investigation into the Clinton Foundation is going into overdrive. Serious whispers of a grand jury are floating about which means a possible indictment, despite the DOJ's best efforts to stonewall the investigations, which has caused a lot of "friction" within the ranks of the FBI. It appears that the Clinton's used the foundation and the DOS to enrich themselves. When Huma is facing 5 to 10 years in federal prison she will flip on H, in my opinion, and so will others getting caught up in this mess.

Whispers say that classified information has been found on Weiner's laptop.

I NEVER expected the Weiner thing though, caught me completely by surprise. Life insurance . . . yeah. And I was wrong about the source of the emails, I never expected it to be from Podesta or Huma or others. The depth of the leaks is unprecedented. Didn't expect the Donna Brazile thing either.

And . . the Affordable Care Act (ACA), aka O'Bama Care, is not looking so affordable any more.

If H gets elected her presidency will be dogged by these investigations and she will probably be indicted at some point down the road. Thinking about wagering my third chip on that.

Funny thing is, Trump has 75 civil suits pending against him, one has him tying up and raping/abusing teenage girls, so he will be dogged also. Not to mention the conflicts of interest he will have with all of his foreign business dealings.

So either way its going to be a shit storm, no winners, only us as the losers. What a mess . . .

 

[ataxian]

Well I think I got close enough on these predictions to claim my second virtual poker chip (no cash value). I was a little off target on the sources but generally I did ok. Interestingly enough the polls are changing, the race is getting closer, the electoral map is starting to change.

The FBI is now 99% certain that at least 5 foreign agencies hacked into Hillary’s illegal server.

The FBI investigation into the Clinton Foundation is going into overdrive. Serious whispers of a grand jury are floating about which means a possible indictment, despite the DOJ's best efforts to stonewall the investigations, which has caused a lot of "friction" within the ranks of the FBI. It appears that the Clinton's used the foundation and the DOS to enrich themselves. When Huma is facing 5 to 10 years in federal prison she will flip on H, in my opinion, and so will others getting caught up in this mess.

Whispers say that classified information has been found on Weiner's laptop.

I NEVER expected the Weiner thing though, caught me completely by surprise. Life insurance . . . yeah. And I was wrong about the source of the emails, I never expected it to be from Podesta or Huma or others. The depth of the leaks is unprecedented. Didn't expect the Donna Brazile thing either.

And . . the Affordable Care Act (ACA), aka O'Bama Care, is not looking so affordable any more.

If H gets elected her presidency will be dogged by these investigations and she will probably be indicted at some point down the road. Thinking about wagering my third chip on that.

Funny thing is, Trump has 75 civil suits pending against him, one has him tying up and raping/abusing teenage girls, so he will be dogged also. Not to mention the conflicts of interest he will have with all of his foreign business dealings.

So either way its going to be a shit storm, no winners, only us as the losers. What a mess . . .

Just medicate = CIVILIZED

 

[His_Highness]

It's that same kind of thinking that allowed bankers to play with peoples money, lose it and think it's ok, everyone else has to pay for the mistake, bailouts aren't free, they might be legal but to everyone that has to pay for it, they're immoral. So screw the leeches like trump and their legal tax laws.

So you pay more taxes than you legally have to?

I made money and lost money with investments. I sometimes sell a stock near year end to take the loss on my taxes to reduce what I have to pay on the investments that did well. Many years ago when I sold a house I kept all the receipts and expenses documented and calculated/took the depreciation so I could reduce the tax on the gain.

Every day there is someone looking for, and getting, a loan or an investor to loan them money for an invention or business idea. Many times the person getting the loan had enough money to self fund the venture but didn't want to risk losing more than they had to. They incorporate to protect their personal assets. If the idea fails they declare bankruptcy and don't pay back the entire loan.

The above is called business. Not funny business, not taking advantage of anyone.....just business. And good people as well as evil people use the business and tax principles I've described including me. I am not an evil man...just a businessman.

If you read what I wrote again I think you'll find the investment banking and bailouts was not even close to what I was talking about.....what almost took out the financial world was a multitude of semi-legal, and completely illegal events and actors. Not nearly the same thing.

 

[ataxian]

So you pay more taxes than you legally have to?

I made money and lost money with investments. I sometimes sell a stock near year end to take the loss on my taxes to reduce what I have to pay on the investments that did well. Many years ago when I sold a house I kept all the receipts and expenses documented and calculated/took the depreciation so I could reduce the tax on the gain.

Every day there is someone looking for, and getting, a loan or an investor to loan them money for an invention or business idea. Many times the person getting the loan had enough money to self fund the venture but didn't want to risk losing more than they had to. They incorporate to protect their personal assets. If the idea fails they declare bankruptcy and don't pay back the entire loan.

The above is called business. Not funny business, not taking advantage of anyone.....just business. And good people as well as evil people use the business and tax principles I've described including me. I am not an evil man...just a businessman.

If you read what I wrote again I think you'll find the investment banking and bailouts was not even close to what I was talking about.....what almost took out the financial world was a multitude of semi-legal, and completely illegal events and actors. Not nearly the same thing.

We need to just chill!

 

[ReggieB]

So you pay more taxes than you legally have to?

I made money and lost money with investments. I sometimes sell a stock near year end to take the loss on my taxes to reduce what I have to pay on the investments that did well. Many years ago when I sold a house I kept all the receipts and expenses documented and calculated/took the depreciation so I could reduce the tax on the gain.

Every day there is someone looking for, and getting, a loan or an investor to loan them money for an invention or business idea. Many times the person getting the loan had enough money to self fund the venture but didn't want to risk losing more than they had to. They incorporate to protect their personal assets. If the idea fails they declare bankruptcy and don't pay back the entire loan.

The above is called business. Not funny business, not taking advantage of anyone.....just business. And good people as well as evil people use the business and tax principles I've described including me. I am not an evil man...just a businessman.

If you read what I wrote again I think you'll find the investment banking and bailouts was not even close to what I was talking about.....what almost took out the financial world was a multitude of semi-legal, and completely illegal events and actors. Not nearly the same thing.

It's fine if you want to justify it, go for it but if someone else loses money for services you won't pay for, then you're offsetting your losses on someone else, plain and simple. There is no other way to look at it from the point of view of the person that lost out because of your business mistakes/tax decisions.

 

[jay87]

I question when people talk about Donald Trump being able to help the U.S. because "he knows how to run a business".

I personally do not believe in Donald's business ability at all because he has not displayed any of his business knowledge in any interviews or debates or any other demonstrations that I have seen.

By definition, I don't think that Donald Trump even is an entrepreneur because he took no risk.

As far as I know Donald Trumps original businesses were created using ~14 million dollars given to him from his father Fred Trump. The fact that his father has 14 million dollars to give away tells me that Fred Trump was the real entrepreneur and Donald never had to worry about money in any way shape or form for his entire life.

I personally do not believe that it takes much business ability at all to use millions of dollars in gift money to hire a manager to run your business for you.



As far as abusing tax laws, we as a country talk about why the national debt is so high and how the country is going bankrupt; and then we see that the richest people are paying the least taxes and are in fact going out of their way to avoid paying taxes.

In doing this big businesses and the super rich are increasing the national debt, increasing the burden on middle and lower class working people, and harming the country economically as a whole.

 

[ReggieB]

Did he inherit any money/assets from his father when he died as well? I expect that was well in excess of $14m...

 

[jay87]

Did he inherit any money/assets from his father when he died as well? I expect that was well in excess of $14m...

From what I've read in 1974 Donald inherited between 40-200 million dollars.

I also read that if Donald had simply invested his entire inheritance in the stock market he would have had more money today than he now "claims" to be worth from all of the money he's made from his businesses.

Donald claimed in his financial statements that he was worth 10 billion dollars.

Other sources estimate Donald actually has a net worth of 3-4 billion dollars.

(http://www.forbes.com/donald-trump/#945ec68790be)
(http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trumps-10-billion-financial-disclosure-report-2015-7)

 

[grokit]

Is there any allegation he went into the business with the intent to deprive contractors?

As @His_Highness mentioned, this seems to be his ongoing business plan, to cheat.

Imo this is why he has to go to russia for capital these days (allegedly).

I also think Drumpf was fond of borrowing money for his enterprises and then declaring bankruptcy when they didn't pan out. Great way to manage his own risk reward profile. Many do it and again ....completely legal.

Legal or not, there's many hard-working people and companies that never did get paid, and endured pain because of it. Bankruptcy laws are supposed to prevent unintended pain; drumpf is misusing them.

But it's more than that. Killary may well be the first president to take the oath of office under indictment, but drumpf is currently involved in 75 pending lawsuits, 30 of which have been described as consequential.

Here's one that smacks of straight-up criminality: Donald Trump and Kids Named in $250M Tax Scam

Just because drumpf won't release his tax returns doesn't mean they're a secret:
Pennsylvania gaming regulators were given at least five years’ worth and eight boxes full of Trump’s tax documents. Nevada, Michigan, Missouri, Indiana and other state gaming officials also had access to multiple years of his returns. Large banks that lent Trump money over the years have also obtained Trump’s returns. One common thread ties all those who have seen the documents: They can’t talk about them.

And if we're (deservedly on both sides imo) going after charitable foundations, of course we can't forget about “donate-gate”, revelations of which prompted Eric Schneiderman, the New York State Attorney General, to launch a criminal investigation into drumpf's unique foundation. The charges that Congressional Democrats want the Justice Department and Florida US Attorney to investigate are totally different. There are also criminal accusations of bribery against Trump, and of soliciting and accepting a bribe by Bondi. The letter to the Attorney General cites the possible violation of two federal bribery statutes, including one “pertaining to bribery schemes that deprive constituents of the honest services of public officials.”

I agree we're screwed either way at this point

 

[ataxian]

As @His_Highness mentioned, this seems to be his ongoing business plan, to cheat.

Imo this is why he has to go to russia for capital these days (allegedly).



Legal or not, there's many few hard-working people and companies that never got paid, and endured pain because of it. Bankruptcy laws are supposed to prevent unintended pain; drumpf is misusing them.

But it's more than that. Killary may well be the first president to take the oath of office under indictment, but drumpf is currently involved in 75 pending lawsuits, 30 of which have been described as consequential.

Here's one that smacks of straight-up criminality: Donald Trump and Kids Named in $250M Tax Scam

Just because drumpf won't release his tax returs doesn't mean they're a secret:
Pennsylvania gaming regulators were given at least five years’ worth and eight boxes full of Trump’s tax documents. Nevada, Michigan, Missouri, Indiana and other state gaming officials also had access to multiple years of his returns. Large banks that lent Trump money over the years have also obtained Trump’s returns. One common thread ties all those who have seen the documents: They can’t talk about them.

And if we're (deservedly on both sides imo) going after charitable foundations, of course we can't forget about “donate-gate”, revelations of which prompted Eric Schneiderman, the New York State Attorney General, to launch a criminal investigation into drumpf's unique foundation. The charges that Congressional Democrats want the Justice Department and Florida US Attorney to investigate are totally different. There are also criminal accusations of bribery against Trump, and of soliciting and accepting a bribe by Bondi. The letter to the Attorney General cites possible violation of two federal bribery statutes, including one “pertaining to bribery schemes that deprive constituents of the honest services of public officials.”

I agree we're screwed either way at this point

420 is a time for celebrating!

Cheer up we will make it!

 

[His_Highness]

It's fine if you want to justify it, go for it but if someone else loses money for services you won't pay for, then you're offsetting your losses on someone else, plain and simple. There is no other way to look at it from the point of view of the person that lost out because of your business mistakes/tax decisions.

Please tell me, from my examples, who was providing a service anyone is not paying for? I'd also like to know who I am offsetting my loses against and who lost out.

If you read my original post closely enough you'd have seen I condemned Drumpf for not paying the contractors if that's where you're going. I'm not sure though......

EDIT: I'm trying to point out what normal, good people who are also small business-people do in practice that is not immoral or cheating versus the things Drumpf and certain investment banking folks have done. I'll say it again...the practices I'm speaking to are the ones that Drumpf may use as well as Ben & Jerry versus the crap that caused the financial collapse or cheating a contractor out of their due.

 

[ReggieB]

Please tell me, from my examples, who was providing a service anyone is not paying for? I'd also like to know who I am offsetting my loses against and who lost out.

If you read my original post closely enough you'd have seen I condemned Drumpf for not paying the contractors if that's where you're going. I'm not sure though......

EDIT: I'm trying to point out what normal, good people who are also small business-people do in practice that is not immoral or cheating versus the things Drumpf and certain investment banking folks have done. I'll say it again...the practices I'm speaking to are the ones that Drumpf may use as well as Ben & Jerry versus the crap that caused the financial collapse or cheating a contractor out of their due.

Sorry my bad, I did not mean to imply you personally were causing someone to lose out, I thought you were attempting to defend trumps practices in general which as you say include cheating people out of their due.

In the end I still think that going bankrupt whilst useful in a business sense to the person going bankrupt, isn't particularly good if it causes another business to lose out, I'll never recognise that as a good thing, there is never any good coming out of losing $900m of someone elses money.

You mentioned 'legally' in your post, that doesn't make it right and that's the point, most of these things are highly dubious one way or another, someone avoiding a loss might well be pragmatic/prudent but it's the thought that there is an entitlement to avoid the responsibility in the first place, none of the risk, all of the gain.

 

[CarolKing]

I'm really upset with the FBI and all those purposeful leaks to FoX News. All of this info is going to make Trump our president I'm afraid of. This absolutely should be considered a crime IMO. What the hell are they doing to our election which is suppose to be fair. The FBI being in collusion with the Republicans is what it looks like to me.

The American people should sue for another election to be held. This is so unfair to the average voter. I can't believe all this is happening. It's making me absolutely sick.

Comey needs to make a statement. Those agents that are leaking I hope get found out and prosecuted. This is not democracy in my country. This is corruption on all sides. What the hell are they doing?

It's a sad day in America. If Trump becomes president, everyone with any sense should be protesting in the streets over this. The democrats have been fucked over. Perfect timing on the FBI's part with all this info.

If Hillary would have been indicted to begin with. Maybe even possibly getting some info before the convention in July. Maybe before the voting actually started so new ballots could be printed with Bernie's name.

I'm worried what else will come out. Maybe a little surprise 2 days before the election, I would imagine.

There's some pretty bizarre stuff on the front of the Enquirer. The next thing you know Trump will be talking about Huma and Hillary being lesbians. I wouldn't care if she was.

Edit
I think a lot of women can identify with being insulted by a sexually inappropriate statements from some jackass saying like, "look at those tits". Totally crushing and embarrassing while others are laughing. It's not a compliment. So the women vote will be pretty important.

Either candidate will create chaos for America. IMO Trump would be worse.

I don't understand how the other commentators on CNN can stand to talk with Jeffry Lord. I am screaming at the TV. He is saying the Klu Klux Klan starting out as an arm of the Democratic Party. WTF that was a long time ago. The Klan now identifies itself with the Republican Party. I looked it up, the Klan started in 1865. He is such an idiot.

There's suppose to be good Newsweek edition coming out tomorrow about Trump and Russia.

 

[ataxian]

I'm really upset with the FBI and all those purposeful leaks to FoX News. All of this info is going to make Trump our president I'm afraid of. This absolutely should be considered a crime IMO. What the hell are they doing to our election which is suppose to be fair. The FBI being in collusion with the Republicans is what it looks like to me.

The American people should sue for another election to be held. This is so unfair to the average voter. I can't believe all this is happening. It's making me absolutely sick.

Comey needs to make a statement. Those agents that are leaking I hope get found out and prosecuted. This is not democracy in my country. This is corruption on all sides. What the hell are they doing?

It's a sad day in America. If Trump becomes president, everyone with any sense should be protesting in the streets over this. The democrats have been fucked over. Perfect timing on the FBI's part with all this info.

If Hillary would have been indicted to begin with. Maybe Even possibly getting some info before the convention in July. Maybe before the voting actually started so new ballots could be printed with Bernie's name.

I'm worried what else will come out. Maybe a little surprise 2 days before the election, I would imagine.

Bernie Sanders was my first pick.
Your right!
Things are upside down!

 

[grokit]

Speaking of bernie... If the senate flips and the house doesn't, killary could become the second clinton impeached by the house of representatives but not by full congress; this harks back to what could arguably be the beginning of modern gridlock and would re-invigorate it. If both houses stay red, she's screwed even if drumpf wins. We could've had an independent president fighting for the american people, but no...

Some in the GOP are discussing plans for Clinton if she wins — starting with impeachment

Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton speaks at a campaign rally at Pitt Community College in Winterville, N.C., on Thursday. REUTERS/Brian Snyder

Senior Republican lawmakers are openly discussing the prospect of impeaching Hillary Clinton should she win the presidency, a stark indication that partisan warfare over her tenure as secretary of state will not end on Election Day.

Chairmen of two congressional committees said in media interviews this week they believe Clinton committed impeachable offenses in setting up and using a private email server for official State Department business.

And a third senior Republican, the chairman of a House Judiciary subcommittee, told The Washington Post he is personally convinced Clinton should be impeached for influence peddling involving her family foundation. He favors further congressional investigation into that matter...

 

[ataxian]

Speaking of bernie... If the senate flips and the house doesn't, killary could become the second clinton impeached by the house of representatives but not by full congress; this harks back to what could arguably be the beginning of modern gridlock and would re-invigorate it. If both houses stay red, she's screwed even if drumpf wins. We could've had an independent president fighting for the american people, but no...

Some in the GOP are discussing plans for Clinton if she wins — starting with impeachment

Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton speaks at a campaign rally at Pitt Community College in Winterville, N.C., on Thursday. REUTERS/Brian Snyder

Senior Republican lawmakers are openly discussing the prospect of impeaching Hillary Clinton should she win the presidency, a stark indication that partisan warfare over her tenure as secretary of state will not end on Election Day.

Chairmen of two congressional committees said in media interviews this week they believe Clinton committed impeachable offenses in setting up and using a private email server for official State Department business.

And a third senior Republican, the chairman of a House Judiciary subcommittee, told The Washington Post he is personally convinced Clinton should be impeached for influence peddling involving her family foundation. He favors further congressional investigation into that matter...

VAPORIZE don't worry be happy!

 

[CarolKing]

One would be forgiven for not noticing every little nugget involved in Rudy Giuliani’s always unhinged and vigorous while often sputtering advocacy of Donald Trump. However, it sure looks like Giuliani dropped a clue about the FBI’s soon-to-be-renewed email probe of Hillary Clinton in this brief clip from last Wednesday’s episode of Fox and Friends. The former NYC mayor hinted, “We’ve got a couple of surprises left.” As the Daily Beast reveals, this clip may have revealed much more than anyone suspected at the time.

Giuliani went further: “I think [Trump’s] got a surprise or two that you’re going to hear about in the next few days. I’m talking about some pretty big surprises.” He then claimed that the books were “cooked in advance” on the initial investigation into Hillary Clinton’s private email server (because Bill met with AG Loretta Lynch on an airplane). Then on Friday, FBI Director James Comey sent his vague letter to Congress, which publicly reopened the digging into Clinton-related emails.

The Beast reflects upon Giuliani’s immediate media blitz after Comey’s Friday letter. The Trump surrogate appeared to theorize about the probe involving “the pressure of a group of FBI agents who don’t look at it politically.” Then he revealed more from his sources within the FBI:

“The other rumor that I get is that there’s a kind of revolution going on inside the FBI about the original conclusion [not to charge Clinton] being completely unjustified and almost a slap in the face to the FBI’s integrity. I know that from former agents. I know that even from a few active agents.”

From there, the Beast’s piece dives into a study of Jim Kallstrom, the former head of the FBI’s New York office. Giuliani indicated that Kallstrom was perplexed and mortified at the FBI’s prior decision not to recommend criminal charges for Clinton’s private email server. Kallstrom, who is described as a “good friend” of Giuliani, appeared on talk shows a few months ago. He claimed that several agents were embarrassed about Comey’s decision and predicted more action would come.

Edit
Thank you @t-dub for your kind words of reassurance. Coming from you it really helps. You don't sugarcoat stuff. I'm glad you think Hillary will win. I understand there will be problems but far less problems than a Trump president. I'm not the only one losing sleep these days.

We just need to get through the next 4 years. Then another election to get it better next time around hopefully. I'm an optimist or I lve in denial. We have to have something to look forward to. I think America is better than this.
.
I don't think Hillary is more corrupt than other politicians. With all the Clinton haters we just know more about her. I'm still with Hillary. I wouldn't have voted for Trump or the alternative that would given Trump the vote. Hillary might be corrupt but she's all we've got. How many republicans will vote for Hillary?
Also if truth be told Trump is corrupt, a serial groper at the least and a sleaze ball?

 

[t-dub]

@CarolKing - Please be calm.

None of this would be happening now if the DOJ wasn't stonewalling the investigation into the Clinton Foundation, which has been ongoing for a year already, and its the primary reason we have a revolt going on in the FBI right now, combined with Comey and the mishandling of the illegal email server investigation. Its the Clinton's fault that all of this controversy is here in the first place. Had they been clean we would have nothing to talk about. Even Chelsea warned about this in her emails. But unfortunately there is some "there" there even though H says there isn't. The fact is that the Clinton's used their foundation, combined with H being SOC to enrich themselves to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars while screwing over Haitians that had been wiped out by natural disasters. Why do you think H gave up 20% of our uranium holdings to Russia after the foundation received a sizeable donation and Bill got a HUGE speaking fee? What about all the donations from Saudi Arabia, Morocco, the UAE and others? Its been calculated that 55% of people who donated heavily to the foundation got special access or favors from the SOC.

I'm sorry all the hacks and leaks upset you but this is the first time folks have been able to see a little bit about how the sausage is made, and its not pretty.

I still think she is going to win. Trump has too big a hill to climb in the electoral college, although things are narrowing now.

What I believe you should be worried about is the investigations and possible impeachment of the president elect after inauguration. This situation is NOT going away once the election is over and THAT will play a huge role on how her presidency will proceed and end.

This shit is not going away folks . . .

 

[grokit]

I'm sorry all the hacks and leaks upset you but this is the first time folks have been able to see a little bit about how the sausage is made, and its not pretty.

I hope the silver lining to all of this is a more aware citizenry, that is ready to participate like actual adults in the sausage-making playground of american policy. Moreover to hold our elected representatives to task, or put them on the first train out of office; rinse & repeat until we get a real government. One can hope...

This would probably never happen without a revolution, the bastards would just shut down the www

 

[t-dub]

George Carlin, way ahead of his time, being brilliant yet again.

 

[Tranquility]

Sorry my bad, I did not mean to imply you personally were causing someone to lose out, I thought you were attempting to defend trumps practices in general which as you say include cheating people out of their due.

In the end I still think that going bankrupt whilst useful in a business sense to the person going bankrupt, isn't particularly good if it causes another business to lose out, I'll never recognise that as a good thing, there is never any good coming out of losing $900m of someone elses money.

You mentioned 'legally' in your post, that doesn't make it right and that's the point, most of these things are highly dubious one way or another, someone avoiding a loss might well be pragmatic/prudent but it's the thought that there is an entitlement to avoid the responsibility in the first place, none of the risk, all of the gain.

For another who cheated others out of their "due", at least we'll always have Castle Grande.

First, find out the players. (That is, read the names involved and what they do. It helps understanding the timeline.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Grande

Then the Sting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitewater_controversy

Then what happened:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/whitewater/timeline.htm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/whitewater/timeline2.htm

I admit, it is not as easy to follow as the stories being told about Trump. But, even if we find there was no criminality, there are a bunch of people out money when the Whitewater Development Corporation went down and during its operation--by design. (Many states hold such land contracts to be illegal today.) There is no argument on that point.

An easy way to understand what happened comes in Colter's latest defense of Trump:
http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2016-11-02.html

Trump has created or helped create hundreds of businesses. Fewer than 10 went bankrupt. Hillary had one business, Whitewater Development Corp., and it went bankrupt -- after ripping off scores of ordinary Americans. Also, a dozen prominent Arkansans went to prison in connection with sleazy financial transactions involving Whitewater.

...

Approximately 10,000 graduates of Trump University were thrilled with the program and said so in writing. But a law firm that paid Hillary and Bill Clinton $675,000 for three speeches managed to find a handful of disgruntled students to be the named plaintiffs in a class-action lawsuit against it.


Trump University was a minuscule portion of Trump's portfolio. Whitewater was a huge part of Bill and Hillary's get-rich-quick schemes, scamming the elderly, retirees and working-class Americans for the money-hungry Clintons.


As described by The Washington Post, people who bought property from the Whitewater Development Corp. were required to submit a down payment, followed by monthly payments, until the entire purchase price of the property was paid off. But if buyers missed a single payment for any reason, the entire transaction would be deemed null and void, and the property, as well as all prior payments, would be forfeited to the Whitewater corporation. No foreclosure proceeding, no court hearing, no due process.


More than half of Whitewater's customers lost their entire investment. (See "Whitewater Repossessions; Sales Practice Benefited Clintons, Partners," The Washington Post, April 21, 1994.)


Though Hillary had long claimed to have nothing to do with the operation of the business, when the books were finally opened, it turned out that the monthly checks were mailed to the Whitewater Development Corp. -- "care of Hillary Rodham Clinton." (See "Records Show Wider Role for Hillary Clinton; Whitewater Papers Detail Involvement," The Washington Post, April 21, 1994.)

​

 

[ReggieB]

is that why there are 75 suits outstanding against trump and 0 against hilary? did hilary write off $900m in losses, then offset that so she didn't have to pay any taxes?

 

[KimDracula]

Tons of made-up non-scandals about one candidate versus lots of real scandals involving one hateful stupid unqualified candidate. It's not a difficult choice.