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Primary Doctor Won't Sign My Medical Marijuana Recommendation

Discussion in 'Medical Discussion' started by Crohnie, Sep 10, 2014.

  1. Crohnie

    Crohnie Crohn's Warrior

    Messages:
    1,048
    Location:
    Northwest Colorado
    I've been with my primary doctor for 18 years here in Chicago and I just learned he will not sign my marijuana recommendation. I am disappointed, but not surprised. Somewhere I seem to remember reading that in Chicago so far, patients regular doctors approved a recommendation for medical MJ only 5% of the time.

    I'm on to the next step which means getting a referral to an MJ friendly doctor through Good Intentions, the clinic I'm working with in Chicago. I don't exactly know how the insurance thing will work out. Not looking forward to shelling out the extra dollars. I'm almost tempted to wait until I move to Colorado sometime next Summer/Fall. Dispensaries in Illinois won't be open until at least March anyway.

    This truly is a disappointment. My doctor has taken really good care of me and has seen me when my health was at its worst. I probably should have discussed more with him how much MJ has helped me. I really feel like giving my doctor an "education". Sigh...
     
  2. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    15,849
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    Did you ask him why he will sign it? It could open the door for a very interesting discussion, eh?
     
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  3. Crohnie

    Crohnie Crohn's Warrior

    Messages:
    1,048
    Location:
    Northwest Colorado
    I love my doctor and he's taken great care of me, but he's pretty old school. We really need to start "coming out" to our doctors about how greatly MJ has benefitted our health. In all the time I've seen him, I only mentioned it a couple of times in an offhand way. What I really want to say to him is that I would be treating my Crohn's the same way as I have for the last 20 years, except I wouldn't have to risk my freedom or my safety in order to do so.
     
  4. CarolKing

    CarolKing Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur

    I belong to an HMO Group Health Cooperative of WA. They don't issue mmj certs. I had to go to someone I didn't know. I had all my documentation that I was able to get. My HMO didn't make it easy for me either. I ended up seeing a Naturopath. I had more than enough info from the last 10 years. The place that I went to was like a mmj certification mill. It took all of 20 min. And I was certified to use and buy cannabis for muscle, nerve pain and muscle spasms.

    Good luck with that Chronie. I'll bet it will take a while for the dispensaries to have very much product. Who knows, they may be ready by March. It's still a while away.

    I know you guys complain about the heat how it makes your condition worse. The heat is good for what's going on with me. The pain and swelling of arthritis. With the weather soon to change, the wet and cold climate of the Pacific NW is hard on the joints and surrounding tissue. We had a beautiful summer. I had days with minimal pain. The cannabis really helps too.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2014
  5. Vicki

    Vicki Herbal Alchemist

    Messages:
    6,852
    I'm pretty sure my new GP won't recommend MMJ for me either. I'm not sure what to do if that happens.
     
  6. lion

    lion Member

    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    MidWest
    I'm also in the same group where my Pain Mgt. Doctor is against MMJ and my Rheumatologist, being paranoid and probably scared for his job working at a Medical Facility, will not write me a script either...

    Actually I could be filling out the paperwork for MMJ here in Illinois but where do you go to get the forms???
    Information and communication about the procedures in place have conveniently been kept quiet...so what alternatives are available???

    Anyone's assistance would be greatly appreciated...leave it to Illinois to pass a Law allowing MMJ and then taking a year and a half out of a four year trial period to get procedures in place so results can occur!!!
     
  7. Crohnie

    Crohnie Crohn's Warrior

    Messages:
    1,048
    Location:
    Northwest Colorado
    You can get the forms from Illinois Dept of Public Health's website. If your doctor won't sign your recommendation, you'll probably have to go through a clinic that will refer you to an MJ friendly doctor.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2014
    woolspinner and 215z like this.
  8. macbill

    macbill Gregarious Misanthrope

    Messages:
    2,767
    Location:
    The Evergreen State
    I am going in today (Valentine's Day) to get a mmj license in WA State. I'm going to a different doctor than my soon-to-retire physician. I'm a little nervous. I feel guilty as hell. For that, I attribute my Catholic upbringing. Catholics don't own "Guilt", but they are heavily invested in the mea culpa thing.

    So even though logically, I can enumerate real reasons why I should have one, the guilts goad silently in the background: "You're not worthy, you're not worthy, you scumbag."

    Will I ever get over Catholic Elementary School? Probably not at this point.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2015
  9. t-dub

    t-dub Vapor Sloth

    Messages:
    7,424
    Location:
    Oregon
    Mine won't either because his insurance won't allow it. He would if he could though. I'm lucky my rheumatologist does but I am not sure how accommodating he is to other patients. I kinda went through the wringer with him, morphine sulfate for almost 5 years, the resulting problems and withdrawals etc. He actually gave me a hug for going through withdrawals at home in a safe way. Also, the chemo he was giving me, Remicade, made my entire body break out into a bleeding rash that almost killed me. It took organ transplant anti rejection drugs, Gengraf, and a couple years to heal that one. So we have some history together. One thing I did was when I decided to start vaping my wife and I went to see him FIRST to consult. So that way it was kinda his idea in a way? All of the doctors on my wellness team support MMJ but if I lost my rheumy I am not sure who would sign it. We do have a PTSD box on the form now so I guess my therapist could. I'll have to ask her about that.

    @Vicki - Does your state have MMJ yet? I thought you guys missed with 58%.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2015
  10. Vicki

    Vicki Herbal Alchemist

    Messages:
    6,852
    I posted that before the November vote. ;)
     
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  11. Hashtag46&2

    Hashtag46&2 Trichome Technician

    Messages:
    609
    Location:
    7th Floor
    Well....
    I met with my new Doctor today.

    She apparently wants a decision...

    Cannabis or Opiates.

    I wasn't told this until after the appointment.

    I was filling out new paperwork, and was called back for my appointment before finishing...

    Well, after her cutting about 33% of my meds that I've been on for 9 years, telling me that they will not fill my Benzodiazepines...

    I got my scripts and went to finish my paperwork..

    Saw this..

    * I will not use Marijuana *

    I asked the clerk at checkout..
    "Does this apply to legal card holders as well?" (I was going to talk to the doctor, but she had already conveniently left for lunch.)

    The clerk said..
    "She didn't talk to you about that?"

    Yeah. "She wants the patient to choose one or the other, she will not prescribe if you use cannabis."

    I grab my scripts, and say...

    "Well ..I choose option 3) Finding a new Doctor."
    I refuse to give up Cannabis, just because the provider is too scared to stand up to the DEA.

    My old Doctor, allowed it, as long as the patient agrees to keep your MMJ card up to date..

    If I don't find a new doc that will abide by the State law, and not violate the Doctor patient oath.

    I will ween myself off and ramp up Cannabis intake.
    I refuse to compromise my passion, my heart and my beliefs so I can remain a slave to big pharma.

    mod note: This post and the next four have been moved to this thread because they were off-topic for their original thread.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2016
  12. ataxian

    ataxian PALE BLUE DOT

    Messages:
    10,284
    Location:
    SURF CITY
    This Doctor sounds like a sell out?
    I cut the PHARMA by 65% and use CANNABIS to stay balanced.

    I don't know your believe however CANNABIS has a symbiotic relation to our bodies.

    One of my doctors told me I was doing better than most.

    CANNABIS is the true GRAIL and it is HOLY!

    The SOLO is a medicating device.
     
  13. Hashtag46&2

    Hashtag46&2 Trichome Technician

    Messages:
    609
    Location:
    7th Floor
    It (Cannabis) holds a very large portion of my heart.

    Opiates?...not so much, but I dread the thought of no pain meds.

    I've been in severe pain my entire adult life.

    It did get better after replacing both my hips, but you're right.

    I'm very willing to give up every fucking pill for my lady Cannabliss.

    After all, I refused the Percocet, Vicodin, all those drugs before they figured out I had a debilitating Auto-Immune Disease.

    I thought Percocet was the strongest pain medication at the time...haha.

    I get to see my Rheumatologist a couple days before my next scheduled pain management appointment.
    I've been with him for about 5 years, and he is aware of my pain meds and my Cannabis usage.

    His only grief, is...
    "I'd hate for you to drive, you already can't move your neck...

    If you get into an accident. ... Insert local television "Traffic Lawyer " will sue for sure."

    Fuckpharma.
     
  14. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    17,453
    Location:
    Left Coast
    Well that comes out of the South end of the horse now doesn't it? I suspect this really belongs in the Lounge, but it strikes me that Doctors take an oath against prejudice and stuff?

    "I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug."

    It's called the "Hippocratic Oath" which is of course where we get the modern term for someone who says one thing and does another? Wrong place for a hypocrite I think......

    Too bad we need otherwise useful Doctors or I'd suggest Normal go for her license.....

    No doubt about it, you took the right option, no sense supporting a clown like that. Good show Hillary Care didn't happen, such a 'second opinion' from your assigned Doctor would have been a crime for both you and the Doctor.

    Good luck with the next one.

    OF
     
  15. sickmanfraud

    sickmanfraud Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,006
    I had a similar experience last week:

    Made an appointment a year ago to get into my Pain specialist, who is a big advocate for cannabis (as is the Minister of Health and my primary care physician).

    Get to the hospital where I had the appointment and was told my doctor was no longer at the hospital!

    The "new" doctor said she did not believe in cannabis too much and would rather I consider methadone!! I impolitely declined. She then told me that methadone is non addictive!?

    The new doc then told me that my (former) doctors patients are "all drugged". By this point my wife had had enough and asked the doctor if I was "all drugged". She said no, but.....

    Then she told me she would renew my cannabis this time, but I should find a new Doc.

    The old doctor is not part of my insurance network. When I saw her at the hospital it cost about $75. to see her out of network will cost me about $400.

    While using cannabis I have dropped my Oxycodone daily from 80 mg to 25mg. I just can't seem to get another increase to get off the opiates.

    I have to say, in defense of the system here, medical cannabis costs the patient roughly $100 per month regardless of how many grams they allow you. So, I get 60 grams (if renewed) for $100.

    I was expecting the old doctor to write for 80 grams and then the Ministry of health will approve 70; every time the doctor wrote to increase by 20 grams they gave me 10 grams increase or no increase.

    When you have to wait 6 months to a year to see the doctor it feels really crappy to be told that the Ministry of Health did not approve the increase.
     
  16. Hashtag46&2

    Hashtag46&2 Trichome Technician

    Messages:
    609
    Location:
    7th Floor
    Damn man... This is hard for me to read, Good Doctors are extremely difficult to find. I'm sorry to hear this my friend.

    My Doc prior to these new asshats, trust was a two way street. I've handed back printed prescriptions that any pill popper would jump over the Grand Canyon to obtain.

    The feeling I felt yesterday was a cold, uncaring feeling of "Whoa, you're on way too much medicine "

    I asked, ..
    "Have you seen my records?"
    Asshat replies..
    "Uh, I know some of your history, we need to get you in the range to keep THE DEA HAPPY "

    To keep the DEA happy???? I've been on the same combination of meds for nearly a decade, with absolutely no problems...

    My disease is documented and proven, I'm in pain from basically head to toe & I have two prosthetic hips and I'm 36 years old....and all you care about is keeping the DEA "happy"?

    Jesus...
    I got a lot to think about !!
     
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  17. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,401
    ............................................................
    You got that right.
    Your new Dr should be overjoyed that you want to ramp up cannabis and ramp down on the pharma pain meds--- if they took a couple hours to study the research.

    "One or the other" is ignorant nonsense by your Dr.
     
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  18. CarolKing

    CarolKing Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur

    Some years back I was told that I no longer could take anti inflammatories because of the damage that they could do to my kidneys. My kidneys were starting to show I had 3rd stage kidney disease while I was taking the anti inflammatories to help my arthritis throughout my body. I had finally found a prescription medicine that helped me. I had to go off of the meds and when they tested my kidneys again they showed normal levels. I was told I no longer could use what had been working for me.

    They said I could take pain medication such as OxyContin. I was worried about taking something that I could become addicted to. She said they would monitor me and that I was only able to take so much in a day. It didn't help like the other meds I had been on. I was taking 2 pills a day.

    When I went into the doctor for a checkup a couple months later, I was asked to fill out a form and sign something, I didn't think anything about it. I saw where I needed to sign that I didn't take any other drugs and one was cannabis. By the way the HMO at the time was against doctors giving out cannabis certifications. I had been a long time cannabis user, they wanted me to take a drug test. I panicked and didn't want to take the test.

    When I left the office I didn't go to the lab for a test. Evidently that was something new in the state. Not only does the test check for other drugs such as cannabis but it makes sure you are actually using your pain medication and not selling it. Everyone is treated like a drug addict or they are selling drugs.

    I called the doctor's office and told them I decided not to take the pain medication. I said I was worried about becoming addicted.

    I eventually went into another doctor and paid out of pocket to get a medical cannabis certification. The first time fee was $170, after that it's $90 for the yearly certification.

    Medical cannabis certifications are changing in the state come this July. Not sure how things will effect me. I am willing to be put on a registry but will it be worth it. I will only save on sales tax. I don't grow my own, do I don't need 15 plants. I want access to medical strains though. Not sure if that will be available for everyone or not. Only time will tell. Thank goodness I live in WA state where cannabis is legal.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2016
  19. Hashtag46&2

    Hashtag46&2 Trichome Technician

    Messages:
    609
    Location:
    7th Floor
    Thank you for sharing Carol, I have always respected your posts, and always enjoy your advice through experience.

    I'm just devastated that my old Doctor retired.

    This man knew his stuff, he could pin a "pill seeker" from real patients with ease.

    I always complied with all his Urinalysis policies, as Cannabis is legal in Colorado, amended into State Law. (Medical and Recreational)
    However, he tested to ensure I was taking my prescriptions correctly, and for real illegal drugs.

    But, Doctors that run these types of clinics, have one goal, hook patient with just barely enough medication for 4 weeks, demand THC free urinalysis...
    The main goal is Money, patient retention without "ruffling" the attention of the DEA.

    The Doctors main priority is maintaining their license, The patient comes in 2nd or 3rd.

    He did require that I maintain a up to date MMJ Card, which also requires the approval of the Colorado Board of Health. Once my application reaches them, they consider my Condition, my prescriptions and medical/pharmacy records.

    I'm seriously considering dropping my pain medication, especially if I am forced to be a slave to the system. Treated as a drug addict that needs monitoring ...

    It will suck, but I always told myself...
    If this drug changes my character in any way..... Fuck that.

    I have dedicated many many years of educating myself, learning the qualities and capability of this sacred plant that has been utilized in conjunction with Opiates for thousands of years prior to modern day medicine.

    I will not be treated as a damn addict..

    Every damn pill count I've had years ago have had a bit extra in there every time ... The Nurse who counted them would always say..
    "You are our only patient that not only brings in what they are supposed to have, but extra?? With your pain levels?" "Truly unique "

    I think it's time I try to drop these damned pills anyway.

    It will most likely be one of the most daunting tasks I've ever tried...

    But, i will persevere, emerge victorious and no longer be a damn slave.

    I best get to making me a bunch of Bubble Hash now.. Hash caps too.
     
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  20. Farid

    Farid Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    699
    My worst experience with doctors and medical cannabis was when I had my first grand mal seizure. When I finally made it to the ER I was completely out of it, and I had no recollection that I had even had a seizure. Instead of explaining to me where I was and what was going on the ER doctors kept interrogating me trying to find out "what drug I was on". They kept insisting I had smoked synthetic marijuana, which was an absurd accusation considering I had already told them I was a medical cannabis patient, and that I had been diagnosed with epilepsy for some time. Instead of treating my seizures they did blood tests and continued to harass me, trying to find out if I was on drugs.

    Finally I went into status epilepticus, and they were forced to tranquilize me... only after having tackled me, something you're never supposed to do to a seizing person. Whatever drugs they gave me were not ideal for epileptics, and I ended up seizing all night. Finally I stabilized and when I awoke a few days later I was met by some of the most incompetent and under-qualified doctors in the North East.

    Several of them kept insisting that my seizure had been caused by cannabis, and that I should stop. What makes this absolutely absurd is that cannabis is a known antiepileptic agent, and I know exactly why I had the seizure, I had missed my prescription medicine several days in a row because I hated taking it. Instead of addressing the issue (that the medicine I was prescribed was not working for me) they had me continue to take it, and insisted that I stop taking cannabis. Then they kept me in the hospital for 6 days just hooked up to fluids which I could have gotten from drinking Gatorade and taking a multivitamin. They wouldn't even let me go outside for fresh air. The only lasting injury I had following my discharge was a dislocated rib from when the ER doctors restrained me when I was seizing.

    The good thing that came from this was that one of the doctors who saw me was very understanding of my condition, and believed me when I told him that I was dissatisfied with the prescriptions I was on, and that cannabis was helping me. He's now my neurologist, and I couldn't be happier with him.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2016
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  21. Hashtag46&2

    Hashtag46&2 Trichome Technician

    Messages:
    609
    Location:
    7th Floor
    My God man! What a nightmare that must of been.

    Thank you for sharing your story, makes my dilemma seem a bit less daunting.

    I've been on OC for over 9 years now.
    For the last 2&1/2 years due to tolerance along with absurd widespread pain levels.

    I was put on the "Maximum" dose. 3x80mg (Baseline CR) and 8x30mg (Braekthrough IR) = 480mg a day.

    The new Doctor cut the 30s in half and took away a baseline.
    =280mg a day.

    For fucks sake...
    If it weren't for my own responsibilities in keeping an emergency supply of these stupid meds, that huge drop would have most certainly caused at least some withdrawal symptoms.

    Fuck the pain, I've dealt with much worse....
    I will not abide by any means of an ultimatum...

    What really pissess me off to no end..

    Alcohol!!!!!!!!
    I don't touch the stuff, and Alcohol +Narcotic almost always the cause of "Overdoses "

    Yet, the Media will only mention overdose..not the fact it was combined with alcohol.

    The Alcoholic, can skip a day or two and still be fine to obtain these types of medicines.

    I choose to use 0.1 grams of vaporized cannabis as opposed to Ambien, now no pain control???

    Gahhhh.

    Thank you FC!! For sharing, for reading, for caring, I've bottled this up for quite some time, and only The guys from the Solo Thread and my wife knew about this situation.

    FC, easily the most amazing group of friends in the world of the Web.
     
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  22. Farid

    Farid Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    699
    At least my issues with the Hospital staff began and ended with my stay in that place. My access to prescription meds was not effected by my MMJ, as they are non-narcotic. The profiling I faced was only in the ER, where they assumed I was on drugs because of my age and because of my history with MMJ. If my primary care doctor/neurologist were treating me like some kind of potential drug addict because of my MMJ, I'd probably go back to the black market, sad to say. I hate being reliant on prescription meds, but they provide such strong relief, compared to cannabis. If I had to choose between legal cannabis and no meds, and meds, and illegal cannabis I'd probably be forced to choose the latter... but I'd be very bitter about it and I'd never look at my doctor the same way.
     
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  23. herbivore21

    herbivore21 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,278
    Preach it brother. If your doctor won't give you what works for your health, then time for a new doctor. What kind of power tripping bullshit is that? Why can't they prescribe opiates while cannabis is being used? Is there any known cross-tolerance or contraindication? Is there any medical reason?

    I betcha they'd have no problems giving you benzos and opiates at the same time (without cannabis) too, two well-known families of drugs that cause physical dependencies and have higher potential for abuse than cannabis. In fact, I know of one Western federal government whose own medicine regulator (equivalent of FDA) says that THC has a very low potential for dependence.

    I recently got rid of a doctor (not specialist) I'd been seeing for a few years because she acted weird about my MMJ use. First inkling that I get that a doctor is moralizing about cannabis is when I start looking for a new one. Fuck those guys.
     
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  24. howie105

    howie105 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,110
    If I may ask what is his objection? Was it about him not having a good grounding in MJ as a medicinal, a business decision or just a bad take on the drug? When I got turned down my practitioner was following the guidelines set down by the hospital, however she worked with me to integrate my MJ use with my prescription drugs. I really hate it when the state and policy stand between the patient and their doctor.
     
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  25. Hashtag46&2

    Hashtag46&2 Trichome Technician

    Messages:
    609
    Location:
    7th Floor
    My brother, Absolutely no cross tolerance... I've been on the same regime for almost a decade

    This shit is absurd to say the least..
    This Doctor provides Opioids, and believe it or not, she refused to continue my Klonopin..

    Yet another reason "to keep the DEA happy "

    I was astonished at how many times she said that phrase.
    As a Doctor, should not the patient come as priority? Within reason of course?

    If a Doctor is still in the belief that Cannabis (sans combustion) is in anyway harmful, they have a lot more studying to do.

    When I began the journey into Pain Management, I studied everything I was placed on , so I established a supply that in which at any given time. I can ween myself off whatever I am on... Regardless of what the Doctor "thinks "

    You read me perfectly..

    This damn doctor thinks..
    "I got him by the balls, he has to comply with whatever I please "

    Dead wrong!!

    And I may just go after her damn license, I've already reached out to the American Pain Foundation.

    To cut a patient's meds from 480 all the way down to 280, is cruel and unusual.

    She will not be seeing me and my insurance money ever again.
     
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