PD vs. MZ a Krazy Function Comparison.
- Thread starter IAmKrazy2
- Start date
reece
Well-Known Member
Another thing I notice with my MZ is when I leave the diffuser cup off for a while the vapor is close to what I get with a koozie on. I also don't do the "choo choo puffs" as Rick recommends. I let the stem sit in the Zap for a few (I try 30 seconds but sometimes I forget and its in there a couple of minutes), as suggested in the PD tips thread (I think). I get good vapor flow from the jump.
Vtac may be on to something with wood densities, draw rates, etc. Each unit has its own personality so-to-speak.
However, I disagree about it being in the name of science. I think it's all in the name of "because we can."
Can't believe I forgot but, thanks for the review, Krazy.
Vtac may be on to something with wood densities, draw rates, etc. Each unit has its own personality so-to-speak.
However, I disagree about it being in the name of science. I think it's all in the name of "because we can."
Can't believe I forgot but, thanks for the review, Krazy.
VapoFish
Well-Known Member
crazy, I enjoyed your comparison review.
One thing I found though, is that the ABV I get from my MyrtleZAP is a dark brown color, like you described the PD producing. I agree with reece that Vtac may be on to something with the wood densities, draw rates, etc.
If we were comparing Volcanos or another non-hand made vape that had rigid standards, that would be one thing, but because both MZs & PDs are hand made items, there is also more room for variances between units of both.
The bottom line: both the MZ & the PD provide a very cool way to ingest our favorite medicine.
One thing I found though, is that the ABV I get from my MyrtleZAP is a dark brown color, like you described the PD producing. I agree with reece that Vtac may be on to something with the wood densities, draw rates, etc.
If we were comparing Volcanos or another non-hand made vape that had rigid standards, that would be one thing, but because both MZs & PDs are hand made items, there is also more room for variances between units of both.
The bottom line: both the MZ & the PD provide a very cool way to ingest our favorite medicine.
DevoTheStrange
Ia! Ia! Vapor Fthagn!
I've noticed that too... except I use a quarter instead of the diffuser cup. I just throw the coin over the HE about ten minutes before. Dump the quarter out when I am ready too use. Hard part is dumping it where I know no one will try too pick it up...
I am also thinking vtac is onto something. Was wondering how much of the actual outer diameter of either the PD or MZ affects how warm it gets. Will it get warmer if it is a thicker peice of wood (ie the chubby ones have more heat than the thinner ones? or vice versa?) Also does how close the HE is too the top of the unit affect how warm it is? For this question, I have noticed on pictures of peoples units some of them appear too have a deeper wall around the heat exchange than others do. I noticed the top of the Tube of my HE is only a few mm from the top of the PD. On others I have seen it deeper set, and have also seen others that are set as shallow as mine.
If there is more wood above the HE, giving the appearance that it is deep set into the PD, will it run warmer?
I am also thinking vtac is onto something. Was wondering how much of the actual outer diameter of either the PD or MZ affects how warm it gets. Will it get warmer if it is a thicker peice of wood (ie the chubby ones have more heat than the thinner ones? or vice versa?) Also does how close the HE is too the top of the unit affect how warm it is? For this question, I have noticed on pictures of peoples units some of them appear too have a deeper wall around the heat exchange than others do. I noticed the top of the Tube of my HE is only a few mm from the top of the PD. On others I have seen it deeper set, and have also seen others that are set as shallow as mine.
If there is more wood above the HE, giving the appearance that it is deep set into the PD, will it run warmer?
stickstones
Vapor concierge
Damn, vtac, I want in on one of those 27 bowl sessions!
DevoTheStrange
Ia! Ia! Vapor Fthagn!
so ideally if you wanted a unit that ran nice and warm (more so than usual) you would want a tall fat one.
that don't sound right. but you know what i mean
that don't sound right. but you know what i mean
Purple-Days
Well-Known Member
Two major factors contributing to the difference in delivered temperature. Wood density and Heat Exchanger Geometry (and materials).
I have experimented with a wide variety of woods (including Myrtlewood, Ebony, Pink Ivory, several Rosewoods, Bocote, Tea Tree, Ash, Walnut, Maple, Western Maple, Rose Sheoak, Red Oak etc.). Woods that are 'too' dense do not provide adequate insulation. This has been discussed in detail in the PD experience thread. Wood density has a much greater influence than diameter (and height has almost no effect). We use Kiln Dried American Cherry for good reasons.
The Heat Exchanger geometry (and materials) are the other obvious contributing factors. Tighter tolerances, massively increased surface area, dark fins, restricted air intake and heavy wall tubing all contribute to the increased heat exchange rate.
I have experimented with a wide variety of woods (including Myrtlewood, Ebony, Pink Ivory, several Rosewoods, Bocote, Tea Tree, Ash, Walnut, Maple, Western Maple, Rose Sheoak, Red Oak etc.). Woods that are 'too' dense do not provide adequate insulation. This has been discussed in detail in the PD experience thread. Wood density has a much greater influence than diameter (and height has almost no effect). We use Kiln Dried American Cherry for good reasons.
The Heat Exchanger geometry (and materials) are the other obvious contributing factors. Tighter tolerances, massively increased surface area, dark fins, restricted air intake and heavy wall tubing all contribute to the increased heat exchange rate.
stickstones
Vapor concierge
Tom,
My walnut unit is thinner than my cherry unit and is warmer to the touch. I can't say that I notice a difference in performance. Would this be because the walnut is denser than the cherry?
My walnut unit is thinner than my cherry unit and is warmer to the touch. I can't say that I notice a difference in performance. Would this be because the walnut is denser than the cherry?
Purple-Days
Well-Known Member
Some of the walnut I had to work with was thinner and in those cases I kept the diameter as wide as possible, which was still under size by a good bit, this leads to a bit warmer exterior (radiating more heat) and therefor a lower vapor temperature, but the walnut is a good insulator and the right density so results were good for the few that we made.
But, even the thickest (diameter) body Ebony or Pink Ivory (and other 'overly' dense woods) units were too poor at insulation values to work well, IME.
Cherry seems nearly ideal to me. A great balance of strength, stability, density. I like Black Walnut and Maple and Ash too but they all have drawbacks. Life is a game of trade-offs and choices.
But, even the thickest (diameter) body Ebony or Pink Ivory (and other 'overly' dense woods) units were too poor at insulation values to work well, IME.
Cherry seems nearly ideal to me. A great balance of strength, stability, density. I like Black Walnut and Maple and Ash too but they all have drawbacks. Life is a game of trade-offs and choices.
Purple-Days
Well-Known Member
Yes, there is always a game of trade-offs, no wood is perfect.
Black Walnut can have a bit of a strong odor at the start. It would be awkward to explain this in a product for general consumption and if unexplained could be unexpected. Other than that, on the consumer side, it is very nice. It is the right density for this application, it is strong and attractive. But it can have an acrid smoke in the shop (eyes, nose and throat), and is a bit irritating to the skin, so it's not a very shop friendly wood. I use a Walnut PD in the shop and find it's performance on par with Cherry.
Black Walnut can have a bit of a strong odor at the start. It would be awkward to explain this in a product for general consumption and if unexplained could be unexpected. Other than that, on the consumer side, it is very nice. It is the right density for this application, it is strong and attractive. But it can have an acrid smoke in the shop (eyes, nose and throat), and is a bit irritating to the skin, so it's not a very shop friendly wood. I use a Walnut PD in the shop and find it's performance on par with Cherry.
IAmKrazy2
Darth Vapor
Tom .eEvery try the stainless steel inside myrtlewood body? Didn't i read it was native to Oregon? Wondering how performance would compare with apples and apples.
Everyone that I have let compare the two units function have preferred the PD. I am counting 7 people in my head. I don't think I missed anyone. Thicker clouds + more vapor + more hits. Still, no burning or overvaping IMO. This does not make my 13v MZ obsolete, just less frequently used. Once again IMO 12v is just much too light in the MZ. In the PD, it is perfection. @ 13v MZ is very nice, still light but not too light.
Everyone that I have let compare the two units function have preferred the PD. I am counting 7 people in my head. I don't think I missed anyone. Thicker clouds + more vapor + more hits. Still, no burning or overvaping IMO. This does not make my 13v MZ obsolete, just less frequently used. Once again IMO 12v is just much too light in the MZ. In the PD, it is perfection. @ 13v MZ is very nice, still light but not too light.
reece
Well-Known Member
Light and thick are subjective terms. Thicker vapor from the PD? I can understand that. Vapor from the MZ is too light? I can't wrap my head around that, going by my experience. I just can't see anyone using the term light, much less too light, to describe the vapor I get.
There was a noticeable difference in vapor density after a few weeks of 24/7 operation. I also started trying the koozie at night, to get some of the higher range actives before bed. After more time passed the Zap started running even hotter. I couldn't use the koozie anymore becaue there was definitely some smoke in the vapor. I now only use a koozie if the room temperature is on the cold side.
I've had mine longer than you, Krazy, so maybe their is more drying for yours to do. Or, maybe we're having similar experiences but my thick is your light.
I'll try to do a video showing what I exhale so maybe you can compare to what your MZ produces.
There was a noticeable difference in vapor density after a few weeks of 24/7 operation. I also started trying the koozie at night, to get some of the higher range actives before bed. After more time passed the Zap started running even hotter. I couldn't use the koozie anymore becaue there was definitely some smoke in the vapor. I now only use a koozie if the room temperature is on the cold side.
I've had mine longer than you, Krazy, so maybe their is more drying for yours to do. Or, maybe we're having similar experiences but my thick is your light.
I'll try to do a video showing what I exhale so maybe you can compare to what your MZ produces.
Purple-Days
Well-Known Member
Yes, tried it. It's plentiful here. Beautiful stuff. 
Happycamper
Sweet Dreams Babycakes
If anyone read what happened to me yesterday and my new adapter/transformer. Things may be down to the transformer itself. I bought a good quality one, and at the supposed 12v setting it combusted the herb in the PD.
This lead me to believe different experiences may also have to factor in the exact transformer been used, unless you can test exactly the voltage coming out of it. (which im sure you can, but i dont want to).
This lead me to believe different experiences may also have to factor in the exact transformer been used, unless you can test exactly the voltage coming out of it. (which im sure you can, but i dont want to).
DeepFried
A Legend in my Own Mind
How can you compare burnt popcorn taste between a vape at 190c and one at over 240c?, that just makes absolutely no sense. Why don't you turn down your Extreme to 190c and then make a comparison. Don't you think the burnt popcorn taste you experience with the PD could be caused by there being no screen and bits of herb falling onto the resistor and burning. No matter how careful you are, herb will always fall onto the resistor unless you use the PD upside down always.IAmKrazy2 said:
Happycamper
Sweet Dreams Babycakes
In my experience, it's only when you spank the PD to get the crumbs out that you get the whole popcorn burning thing. So you spank after you have used it.DeepFried said:
General use, even if some stuff falls down, I dont experience instant burnt popcorn effect. All that I experience (and this is very rare when a small amount of a bowl falls into it, but then again im not jumping around the room doing cartwheels) would be possibly one less inhale. Its rare and not the end of the world.
DeepFried
A Legend in my Own Mind
Happy, I guess you are right, I must be imagining it all. The screen on the MZ must do nothing to prevent herb from falling into the heatport unless I am doing "cartwheels" and spanking the PD will resolve all my burnt popcorn imaginations. Hey give me a call, I have a timeshare deal for you..Happycamper said:
reece
Well-Known Member
I noticed.VapoFish said:
I may have mentioned this before but, if my diffuser cup has been on the unit right before I vape, the vapor ia what I would call light. Still satisfying, and a lot of it but not super dense. When I leave the cup off the unit for a while the MZ runs hotter and the vapor is thick. Rick has said the diffuser cup acts as a heat sink.VapoFish said:I have the same experience with my MyrtleZAP. I can get thick, rich, milky hits. Billowy clouds form and sometimes seem to engulf the entire room. My fire alarm goes off. The authorities are alerted.
OK, yes. I'm vaped.
My previous post was made at school. When I got home I took the diffuser cup off and started vaping. I took a couple of puffs, bowl not finished, and then did the dishes. I left the cup off. I returned to the Zap a little over half an hour later and the hits, I got about three or four more, was much more dense than the first two from the same bowl. I'm not sure how long one needs to leave the cup off. It could be much less than 30 minutes. That's just how long it took me to get back to it.
VapoFish
Well-Known Member
Yep, reece - I've found that too.
I enjoy a few things about the dragonfly diffuser cup...
- It makes the MZ uber-stealthy ... kind of turns it into a piece of American folk art
- It's use (along with essential oil) makes my house smell good
So, I leave it on whenever I'm not vaping. About 10 minutes before I'm going to vape I pull off the dragonfly diffuser cup to let the mighty MZ achieve maximum temp.
Works great.
I enjoy a few things about the dragonfly diffuser cup...
- It makes the MZ uber-stealthy ... kind of turns it into a piece of American folk art
- It's use (along with essential oil) makes my house smell good
So, I leave it on whenever I'm not vaping. About 10 minutes before I'm going to vape I pull off the dragonfly diffuser cup to let the mighty MZ achieve maximum temp.
Works great.
Purple-Days
Well-Known Member
This is a comparison test of the two, by one fellow, who owns both and has access to the same transformers and uses the same draw techniques, same materials, and using the same electric grid. Not two different opinions from possibly different situations. Comments like, "Or, maybe we're having similar experiences but my thick is your light. " are irrelevant. He has done testing of both in similar circumstances and made his opinions known.
Deep Fried, we know you and others hate the PD, and anything that will put the PD in a bad light and the Aromazap in a good one would please you greatly. But, when I took the leather and cardboard bottom off my first Aromazap to repair the failed wiring there was a load of duff in the bottom cavity of the Aromazap, kinda surprised me. It had fallen through the screen. While the screen may stop some material it certainly doesn't stop it all, not even close.
Your 'burnt popcorn smell' is largely a user issue (loading technique) and not related to function, or a comparison of the function of the two vapes. Matter of fact, seems the taste was related to 'last' hits (and temperature) rather than material falling into the heat exchanger, according to the poster. Red Herring.
Time share deal? Smooth one.
Deep Fried, we know you and others hate the PD
, and anything that will put the PD in a bad light and the Aromazap in a good one would please you greatly. But, when I took the leather and cardboard bottom off my first Aromazap to repair the failed wiring there was a load of duff in the bottom cavity of the Aromazap, kinda surprised me. It had fallen through the screen. While the screen may stop some material it certainly doesn't stop it all, not even close. Your 'burnt popcorn smell' is largely a user issue (loading technique) and not related to function, or a comparison of the function of the two vapes. Matter of fact, seems the taste was related to 'last' hits (and temperature) rather than material falling into the heat exchanger, according to the poster. Red Herring.
Time share deal? Smooth one.