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PBW & the Chemistry of Clean

Discussion in 'Glass' started by t-dub, Dec 8, 2012.

  1. vapen00b

    vapen00b various on-demand full convection units

    Messages:
    1,461
    That’s right. Vinegar essence FTW!
    Always does the job for me after PBWing- even when citric acid fails.

    PBW and then vinegar can make ISO obsolete. At least in my glassbook. :)


    Good luckx
     
  2. ataxian

    ataxian PALE BLUE DOT

    Messages:
    11,480
    Location:
    Pacific Ocean
    VINEGAR = ACIDIC ACID

    I have LIME STONE FLOORS and vinegar does the job!
     
  3. Mr. Whitewall

    Mr. Whitewall Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    128
    Location:
    In a 100% glass airpath tower!
    Thanks for your replies guys! :rockon:

    Sooo, not that crazy after all? Hmmm...

    Oh yea I forgot to add I had the two pieces soaking in (white) vinegar for a couple of weeks, although it was cold and did NOT add it to the whole process of PBW first then acidic solution, etc...
    Although it did work magnificently to remove what seemed to be the start of little mold colonies forming on another piece... Same story, tried ISO, GO, Crystal Clear... But there were still little marks, so I used the vinegar and it was perfect.
     
    ataxian likes this.
  4. Gn0sis

    Gn0sis Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    245
    Any tips on how to safely warm up 30% vinegar? Or vinegar in general?

    How hot do I want to get it?

    Seems like the fumes would be pretty potent.
     
    ataxian likes this.
  5. Mr. Whitewall

    Mr. Whitewall Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    128
    Location:
    In a 100% glass airpath tower!
    It smells like piss tbh! Don't know how unsafe it'd be to heat.

    But if you're worried about toxic fumes you can get a mask with removable filters (make sure they are adequate for filtering acid fumes, they have different safety ratings dpending on what you're exposing yourself to).

    Then again, considering it is used for cooking and general consumption you should be ok, even heating it to around 50°C?

    Oh, found this with the shortest google search:

    https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/81-123/pdfs/0002.pdf

    It seems to boil at 118°C.
     
    ataxian likes this.
  6. Monsoon

    Monsoon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,533
    Location:
    Canada
    Easiest way would be to place the bottle and/or filled piece in a sink or pot filled with hot tap water.
     
    ataxian likes this.
  7. Gn0sis

    Gn0sis Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    245
    would that be hot enough? for how long?
     
    ataxian likes this.
  8. vapen00b

    vapen00b various on-demand full convection units

    Messages:
    1,461
    Honestly, I've always just used cold vinegar... Worked like a charm.
    Also, you could just preheat the glass with hot tap water, rinse and fill with vinegar.

    Just go for it.:)

    Good luck
     
    ataxian, Alexis, Cl4ud3 and 1 other person like this.
  9. Gn0sis

    Gn0sis Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    245
    yeah, i tried cold/room temp vinegar already. even did a several week soak with 30% acidity one. the white marks are still there

    you're talking about rinsing off fresh PBW after a wash, im talking about trying to get rid of marks that have been there a while....
     
    ataxian likes this.
  10. vapen00b

    vapen00b various on-demand full convection units

    Messages:
    1,461
    Hey,

    No, I'm talking about getting rid of everything unwanted.
    It almost seems like the surface of your glass has gotten rough somehow.. Have you used any tools to scrape or brush that might have micro-damaged the surface?

    I was desperate once cause pbw and ISO hadn't done the trick, but then I tried citric acid too. Started off with iso, then pbw, then citric.
    Some months later I was having problems again and tried vinegar essence instead of citric acid.. Perfect!

    Maybe 30% isn't sufficient concentration wise?
     
    ataxian, Alexis, Cl4ud3 and 1 other person like this.
  11. Gn0sis

    Gn0sis Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    245
    I haven't put anything into that piece besides salt and rubbing alcohol and I'll never believe salt can damage borosilicate glass, let alone that much in less than a year. None of my other pieces have this problem despite being cleaned with the same exact salt and for longer.

    Can you please elaborate on which vinegar essence you used? A quick google search yielded results that are around 20% to 28% acidity. Both of which are lower than the 30% I already have a big jug of...
     
    ataxian likes this.
  12. vapen00b

    vapen00b various on-demand full convection units

    Messages:
    1,461
    The one I’ve been using recently is essence from brandy vinegar, 20% acidity. Does the job cold and just fine. Can’t tell about the former ones..

    Good luck on your quest!
     
    Hogni and ataxian like this.
  13. aj0125

    aj0125 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    330
    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    Great to see all these people enjoying PBW and all its wonderful uses, sorry to see that many people have had pieces mysteriously ruined like myself. I am debating getting some more PBW to clean some ELBs for the EVO, should work great for that. I may use it to clean some cheap glass because when it doesn't ruin a piece it does a fantastic job. I still don't understand how some of us seemingly did everything right and still got stains and cannot remove them.
     
    ataxian likes this.
  14. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,884
    ............................................................................
    Did you follow the PBW holy trinity?
    1. always mix the hot water and PBW externally so it is totally dissolved before pouring into the piece.
    2. always use very little PBW, much less than instructions, so it is totally dissolved. Any non-dissolved globs of PBW
    will stick to your glass and stain it
    3. Always use minimal amount of time, like 10 -15 minutes max. Soaking too long can lead to stains.

    Those that follow the trinity shall be rewarded with sparkling glass and hopefully no stains...
     
    Squiby, MoltenTiger, Alexis and 2 others like this.
  15. aj0125

    aj0125 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    330
    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    Yeah I did everything right as far as I know of, I may give it another go on a cheap piece of glass but I really wish i had tested it on something less than $300... oh well long time ago, life moves on.
     
    Baron23 and ataxian like this.
  16. ataxian

    ataxian PALE BLUE DOT

    Messages:
    11,480
    Location:
    Pacific Ocean
    Take the PIECE with the stain and use common dish washing soap/baking soda/white vinegar or just some alcohol and salt shake. (safeway has the highest %)

    I wash with a CITRUS FRUIT of some kind and rise with a clean filtered water.
    I had 2 recover a couple of wp's with this METHOD?
     
    MoltenTiger, Baron23 and Alexis like this.
  17. Stu

    Stu Maconheiro Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,962
    Location:
    some shithole country
    I didn't follow @MinnBobber's holy trinity and stained my Mobius Ion years ago. I've tried everything to get rid of the stain, but nothing works. So abide by thine holy trinity my brethren!

    Thankfully the stain is only visible when the glass is dry. When it's wet it looks perfect. It's a good reason to keep hitting it to keep it nice and purdy. :D

    :peace:
     
    Squiby, MonkeyTime, Alexis and 5 others like this.
  18. ataxian

    ataxian PALE BLUE DOT

    Messages:
    11,480
    Location:
    Pacific Ocean
    [​IMG]

    CANNABIS is cool!
    Cleaning is work!
     
  19. DieHard

    DieHard Vertical transportation specialist.

    Messages:
    3,169
    Location:
    Limbo
    It also cannot be stated enough that PBW will attack metal. It will remove a Ti signature from glass. Protect that sig with a piece of tape that can withstand the water and PBW. I erased the Ti sig by soaking my Eross En4cer. I also have found that an extended soak can work, but if any part of the glass is ABOVE the water line it will stain the water line in place.. So it should be submerged completely.
     
  20. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,633
    I do not let it soak for more than five minutes, I have cleaned approx 8 different pieces from DHGate stuff to USA made heady and have never had an issue with streaks or staining.

    I wonder...and I'm not looking to point fingers or assign blame...but I wonder if those who have gotten stains soaked for longer periods or if we think its just something in the specific glass that stained?

    P.S. - I should mention...5 minute soak and then if needed I do it again. Just don't let a single soak go on too long. Better to do multiple cleanings rather than long soak, IMO. Otherwise, I do as @MinnBobber, microwave some water, stir in small amount of PBW, stir until completely dissolved, then rinse thoroughly. Repeat as needed.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2018
  21. Gn0sis

    Gn0sis Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    245
    none of what you stated works.

    dish washing soap doesn't work. neither does baking soda, white vinegar nor 30% vinegar. I even heated the vinegar to near boiling temps and let it soak, and nothing has removed the PBW stains thus far..

    does anyone know something else that can get the stains out?

    the only thing that I know can work for easy to reach surfaces is Ajax with bleach powder mixed with a few drops of water on a paper towel and lots and LOTS of manual scrubbing. this works only for stains on the OUTSIDE of the piece though.

    i've yet to figure out how to get the damn stains out from INSIDE the piece....

    i curse the day i ever came across PBW to be honest.
     
    ataxian likes this.
  22. DieHard

    DieHard Vertical transportation specialist.

    Messages:
    3,169
    Location:
    Limbo
    Ok I know this can be used in a coffee pot so I will “go there”. You can use CLR ( Calcium, Lime, Rust Remover) to remove hard water stains and some other stubborn stains. I had some success healing a piece that had the “water line” etched in the neck because I forgot is soaking in the PBW for several days. Obviously, when using any type of cleaning chemical, a thorough rinse after washing with mild dish soap is required before putting the piece back in use.
     
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  23. Gn0sis

    Gn0sis Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    245
    soaked in CLR for about 30 days. didnt help
     
    ataxian likes this.
  24. Alexis

    Alexis Peace keeper, fun maker and 3/4 time vaporist.

    Messages:
    1,943
    Location:
    Bedford, United Kingdom
    This is probably an utterly stupid suggestion, but I wonder if activated charcoal could serve any use here? A cheap, harmless test anyway. It has its own unique properties. I dont think heating it would be necessary, if it is able to make any impact at all.

    Yesterday in a very fatigued, stupefied condition, I tried forcing myself to clean my
    Herborizer XL Sphere bubbler- FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER! In 3 years, except frequent hot soapy water washes.

    Haven't been using it for a long while and wish to sell. I ISO +salt shook it, let soak a while. That got ALL of the visible cannabis oil/reclaim off. Sparkling except limescale marks below water level.
    So I broke ALL the rules- tipped PBW in empty sphere, easily enough. Poured near boiled water in. Shook. Left a while, uncertain. I was thinking of this thread and the reports of PBW stains.

    Got paranoid after 20 mins- emptied. Certainly not much impact of limescale below water, and top is milly when was 100% clear from the ISO. So I gave up, was too tired.
    My mum soaked it in soda overnight (in Sphere) and used cheap white vinegar today and it is pretty damn shiny today. A tiny patch of limescale left, we need more vinegar first but looking REALLY good. :cool:
    I will try to upload a pic soon.
     
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  25. ataxian

    ataxian PALE BLUE DOT

    Messages:
    11,480
    Location:
    Pacific Ocean
    I only have: {30 water pipes; accessories galore}

    GAS I believe it's called!

    If it bug's U just throw it away & get another piece!

    "Whenever you feel like criticizing anyone,"
    "Just remember that all the people in this world haven't had the advantages that you've had".

    The 1st chapter of the "THE GREAT GATSBY" written by: F. SCOTT FITZGERALD
     
    Alexis likes this.

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