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PBW & the Chemistry of Clean

Discussion in 'Glass' started by t-dub, Dec 8, 2012.

  1. t-dub

    t-dub Vapor Sloth

    Messages:
    7,565
    Location:
    Oregon
    Try a home brew store. Wine makers and brewers have needs for many brushes that can be nicer than test tube cleaners or lab brushes.
    I have heard from people here that CLR has worked.
     
  2. CuckFumbustion

    CuckFumbustion Lo and Behold! The transformative power of Vapor.

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    Thanks !:tup: Found this tidbit.

    CLR&reg Pro Industrial Products Frequently Asked Questions

    How do I clean hard water deposits from my drinking glasses?
    Pour 1/2 warm water and 1/2 CLR into a plastic bowl and dip a clean, soft cloth or sponge into it. Apply to deposits and rub. Rinse thoroughly with cold, clean water. If it seems that CLR helped a bit but the glasses are not completely clear, repeat at full strength if necessary.
     
    t-dub, GreenHopper, SSVUN~YAH and 5 others like this.
  3. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,151
    FYI on water temps:

    feds recommend 120 F max on water heater temps. Some folks go higher but 130 F will give you third degree burns after about 20 seconds of exposure.
    160 is mofo hot.
    I preheat my water piece with hottest tap water and then mix PBW externally with distilled water and fill piece---want to avoid any chance of hot water shock cracking my glass.
    I used to use distilled for day to day in bubblers but got lazy. Still do for cleaning to make sure the PBW mix is "the best it can be". If I had hard water/well water, I'd use distilled day to day.
    Distilled water is cheap insurance.
     
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  4. Hogni

    Hogni Honi soit qui mal y pense

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    I don't understand why some of you are dissolving PBW separately before use??

    After that the oxygen can't work anymore on your glass!? And as said some posts before the oxygen is a very important factor of PBW for cleaning efx.

    I preheat my glass with hottest tap water to prevent thermal shocks, empty the glass then I fill in immediately the PBW and add boiling water. Some shaking for dissolving the PBW and let it stand for around 10 minutes. Works awesome every time.
    If your fingers are too heat sensitive use a silicone glove or something like that.
     
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  5. MoltenTiger

    MoltenTiger Well-Known Member

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    PBW makes glass so damn slippery, I'm all about letting some pieces be as stationary as possible in the cleaning process.
    Others I do as you say.

    With premixing, you can just pour it in and let it sit, then rinse and that's pretty much it.
    If I was shaking around, I'd probably prefer salt + alcohol
     
  6. Hogni

    Hogni Honi soit qui mal y pense

    Messages:
    3,553
    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Good advice. It's really slippery therefore I do it in the kitchen sink just a few inches above the bottom.
     
  7. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,151
    ..................................................................................
    It's similar to Oxy-Clean for clothes washing machine. They recommend filling machine with water and dissolving the powder BEFORE adding clothes. We're talking you miss out on what, 10 seconds of oxy action??

    Mixing externally, you also can get MUCH more vigorous in making sure it is dissolved, heavy shaking or heavy stir action.

    Putting raw powder into bubbler and adding water, the powder can float up before fully dissolved and that white paste particle get into a perc etc.
    It's that white pastey , not fully dissolved PBW that can leave white stains.

    For a $20 bubbler--meh/ok. For a $400 bubbler, I would never mix inside the bubbler as it is not worth the risk.
    Err on too little PBW, too short a dwell time and repeat if necessary rather than over-do it :)
     
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  8. nickmo

    nickmo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    100
    I am looking for some first time advice here. I grabbed some of this to clean a stubborn spot on my Mobius. How much should I use? You pour some in the glass and then add hot/warm water and let it soak? Or pre-mix and then pour into the glass?
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2017
  9. MoltenTiger

    MoltenTiger Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,415
    Location:
    Terra Australis
    The less the better, the hotter the water the better.

    I use about 1/2 tsp to 500mL H2O (straight from a kettle), and I think that's quite concentrated. I have used as much as 1tsp but I think it's too much. For cleaning cheap combustion pieces that's my go to, but for Mobius glass I recommend less and multiple washes.

    You'll want to bung the joint and externally mix PBW, stir thoroughly so it's fully dissolved.

    Then fill the piece, rotate it around so airbubbles aren't causing dry spots and the piece is completely full.
    Let it sit 5-10 mins and repeat until clean.

    If the spot is accessible, some scrubbing action will make short work of it.

    If it's inaccessible, expect to be doing multiple washes, but it should eventually get it.
     
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  10. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,080
    This ^^. Although some argue that its part oxidation cleaner and that we are wasting this aspect by mixing externally, its my experience that its really the only way to ensure that its fully dissolved.
     
  11. t-dub

    t-dub Vapor Sloth

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    Location:
    Oregon
    I want to thank everyone (too many to name, you know who you are) that have contributed to this thread. I have been going through some serious life changes and have not been able to be here for quite some time. I really appreciate the level of support the community has brought here, its a fantastic testament to the quality of people here at FC.

    While I still have very pressing medical issues, I will still try to peek in here from time to time to be with my friends . . . :peace:
     
  12. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,080
    Best of luck, brother. Let us know if we can support you in anyway. You are a really good guy and have all of my best wishes for a speedy and full recovery.
     
  13. pxl_jockey

    pxl_jockey Barely-Known Member

    Messages:
    949
    Location:
    Lost in the English countryside
    @t-dub ^ditto, once again I find myself nodding to a @Baron23 post.

    You don't know me but I have learned and laughed much at your posts in many threads round here. A benefit of being new is years of FC gold to be mined. Certain people are there year in and out, holding down the fort and growing the legend. You are one of the quality people that made me keep coming back, you are part of that fantastic testament to the kindness and sharing knowledge with those searching that's in the culture here. No doubt you are one of those who were instrumental for me successfully fuck cannabis combustion.

    I hate that medical issues are messing with your life, that just plain sucks. You've given a lot here so if there's anything you require I hope you'll let us know. I also hope things turn around for you real soon!
     
  14. t-dub

    t-dub Vapor Sloth

    Messages:
    7,565
    Location:
    Oregon
    Thanks everyone . . . war is hell. I appreciate knowing I have brothers in arms . . . :peace:
     
  15. MonkeyTime

    MonkeyTime Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    843
    Location:
    WI
    We are brothers, and we do have your back.

    Fight on friend, we're behind you if you falter.
     
  16. CuckFumbustion

    CuckFumbustion Lo and Behold! The transformative power of Vapor.

    Messages:
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    @t-dub Best of health and spirits and a speedy recovery. Remember when you mentioned your thread and PBW to me and made me a convertee?

    Currently I have a Pyrex saucepan that is used for the PBW mix. My pieces are already heated and flushed with water. So I drop a tsp into the boiling water and let the crystals dissolve and fully react and then pour a small amount into the piece and flush it with the hottest tap water and repeat.

    The pieces that have the residue. Well my flush and boil method got rid of most of it without compounding the problem. But some residue remains. After a few applications and ISO rinses, I could perhaps bring it back to spotless. :hmm:

    Clean glass means less materials can stick the glass and to any materials that are already stuck. It has gotten better to predict where the problem areas will be. Meaning less fuss and muss on my next glass cleaning day.

    Thanks again @t-dub for helping me get more studious about all this. :tup:
     
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  17. CuckFumbustion

    CuckFumbustion Lo and Behold! The transformative power of Vapor.

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Cuckfumbustion Central
    Getting better at removing the old PBW residue and making better boiling batches. First I clean and flush whatever wants to come out. Then I set it under the tap at the lowest running hot water setting and allow the glass to become heated. Later apply the boiling PBW mix. Rinse. Shake some ISO and rinse, Shake some Lemon juice to remove the stubborn residue. Perhaps some orange environmentally friendly soap. PBW Boiler batch and final rinse. ISO to sanitize.

    Using less PBW to get the job done and trying to use safer products to assist. Would Baking soda add anything to the process?
     
  18. CuckFumbustion

    CuckFumbustion Lo and Behold! The transformative power of Vapor.

    Messages:
    1,911
    Location:
    Cuckfumbustion Central
    Really like the image in that quote..Other considerations. Energy, water flow (laminar or turbulent). Heat of glass at time of adding the PBW boil solution. Water flow from your faucet with your setup.

    Clean glass is easier to keep clean. Avoid buildup. :2c: Use as little materials as necessary to do the job.

    I do use a chemistry brush and had to for a few hard cases. :peace:
     
    t-dub, SSVUN~YAH, duff and 1 other person like this.
  19. Hogni

    Hogni Honi soit qui mal y pense

    Messages:
    3,553
    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    "clean glass is easier to keep clean." - true words!

    But joke aside - you are absolutely right
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
    CuckFumbustion, ataxian and SSVUN~YAH like this.
  20. Mr. Whitewall

    Mr. Whitewall Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    190
    Location:
    In a 100% glass airpath tower!
    I seem to have the same problem as many in the previous page, etc...
    First I got some strange marks, they are round, running along the sides of two of my pieces.
    I'm guessing from soaking with cleaning agents in cold water (or that went cold) because I'm very OCD with glass.
    Used everything from Crystal Clear to GO, ISO 100% (gently) with a little salt (different grinds) and without, boiling water, you name it..! Seems the more I use a piece the harder it becomes to clean.
    Then I tried PBW but it left those white streaks :doh:, both inside and outside every piece I cleaned it with. Although partly it is my fault for letting it go cold, when I was working on the other piece and vice-versa.
    It seems to happen when it dries up, even if rinsing thoroughly?

    Well, I don't know if I'm reading too much into this, and hopefully somebody with more common sense (and probably a degree in Chemistry as well! :p) will hopefully deter me in time...
    So I read brewers also use a 5-10% acid solution for rinsing after the pbw wash, apparently?
    Caustic Soda (Sodium Hydroxide) is supposed to remove any organic residue leftover if I'm not mistaken.

    I took a look at other stuff they had in the shop and bought (yes, I did communicate with two reps before ordering) the said Acid solution and Caustic Soda (Sodium Hydroxide) along with the PBW just in case...

    Added adequate protection: corrosive-resistant gloves, glasses, suit, aperon, gas mask, 2-3 layers of clothing, long sleeves... Operating in the balcony to avoid toxic fumes inside...

    Will be trying the "nuclear solution" later on this week. :worms:
     
    SSVUN~YAH, OF and ataxian like this.
  21. hafalump

    hafalump Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    613
    Location:
    Down the rabbit hole
    I like the spots and streaks in my glass. Shows all the love. A bit of patina if you will.
     
  22. Monsoon

    Monsoon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,587
    Location:
    Canada
    I noticed similar stains on the inside of my Incycler. I ended up finally getting them off with a hot vinegar soak followed by adding some baking soda. Not sure if the baking soda was needed but it worked!
     
  23. Gn0sis

    Gn0sis Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    264
    Sodium Hydroxide didnt do the trick for me.... even tried soaking for a couple of weeks with it. white marks from PBW are still there
     
  24. vapen00b

    vapen00b various on-demand full convection units

    Messages:
    1,475
    That’s right. Vinegar essence FTW!
    Always does the job for me after PBWing- even when citric acid fails.

    PBW and then vinegar can make ISO obsolete. At least in my glassbook. :)


    Good luckx
     
  25. ataxian

    ataxian PALE BLUE DOT

    Messages:
    11,824
    Location:
    Pacific Ocean
    VINEGAR = ACIDIC ACID

    I have LIME STONE FLOORS and vinegar does the job!
     

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