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PBW & the Chemistry of Clean

Discussion in 'Glass' started by t-dub, Dec 8, 2012.

  1. MoltenTiger

    MoltenTiger Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,187
    Location:
    Down down under
    It's interesting that there's a distinct line from clear glass to the swirly marked glass where the downstem meets the can.
    Could it be possible that this is a borosilicate imperfection that has formed in just that component of the glass? It seems unlikely because of the one clear spot, but it seems weird to me that it's just that one section and doesn't spread to the downstem.
    Have you used a brush in that section?
     
    ataxian, SSVUN~YAH and Hogni like this.
  2. Gn0sis

    Gn0sis Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    167
    weird indeed. there are a tiny bit of the same marks on the downstem, but just barely

    a brush was my earlier question. i have been skimming the web looking for one without any metal parts in it. open to suggestions and would very much appreciate a link to a thin, flexible handle brush I can safely use inside my piece.
     
    ataxian and MoltenTiger like this.
  3. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,937
    Take a look at this site. Yeah, lot of them, the wand is twisted steel pair, but some of them it doesn't say and some the entire shaft is covered in bristles. This is about the best I could find.

    Search for flexible bent tube lab bottle brush on Google for good returns.

    https://www.tedpella.com/brush_html/Brushes.htm

    And

    https://www.justmanbrush.com/catalog/

    This one says:

    Ultra soft, polypropylene bristles will not scratch or chip like wire or nylon. Closed cell foam bristles will not absorb water and will not harbor bacteria. Wire in center is hidden and will not become exposed, so it will not scratch plastic or glassware under normal usage.

    http://www.thomassci.com/Laboratory-Supplies/Brushes/_/GLASSWARE-BRUSHES?q=Cleaning Brushes
     
    ataxian, Summer, duff and 5 others like this.
  4. walkinginthetalltrees

    walkinginthetalltrees Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9
    How do you get PBW stains off the outside of your glass? I tried not to get any water on the outside of my tube to avoid the labels and now I have PBW stains on the outside. Tried mixing PBW and hot water and scrubbing it off but it won't go away. Anyone else have this problem?
    [​IMG]
    Some of the stains are from hard water but the random ones are from PBW. To be honest I don't know how I feel about inhaling something that was cleaned with chemicals strong enough to eat away labels. And it leaves stains of itself that's weird. Do I throw this Sovereignty and a Goldstein in the trash now?
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2017
    ataxian likes this.
  5. walkinginthetalltrees

    walkinginthetalltrees Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9
    Now I see someone around page 25 had a similar problem. I'm surprised this stuff gets this many good reviews because it seems like shit. What kind of glass cleaner stains glass? It also says it is a lung irritant. If it is permanently stained in my glass that I inhale from to my lungs that can't be safe no? Unless I'm doing something wrong. Can someone let me know before I throw this glass away? Can it be burned off in a kiln?
     
  6. Gn0sis

    Gn0sis Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    167
    the staining isnt permenant. i was able to get PBW stains out from the outside of my piece by scrubbing Ajax /w bleach. I'm not sure yet how to get em out from the inside. Haven't tried soaking in Ajax yet.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017
  7. walkinginthetalltrees

    walkinginthetalltrees Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9
    Good idea I'll try that. For the rings created inside the tube from the water level, what is that? If it's PBW still in the glass isn't that sketchy to inhale?
     
    CuckFumbustion and ataxian like this.
  8. jl420

    jl420 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    197
    Location:
    R.I./Ma
    I had same inital issues but began putting PBW in a container of hot water letting it breakdown a bit then pouring into my glass. After a good soaking I drain out PBW and run warm water through for a good rinse. I then follow up with a rinse with [​IMG] shaking the glass vigorously another warm water rinse. Then a drop of liquid dish soap and another warm water rinse. I know it's super OCD but my glass comes out super clean. My buddy had a rig that was crusted with internal black residue. Nothing seemed to get it clean. I did the presoak PBW solution and left it in his rig for a couple of hours. We emptied it out and it looked alot better and after a 710 Formula rinse it was crystal clean. To be honest for normal use the 710 Formula rinse should do the trick but for glass that's been heavily used the PBW helps loosen the crud and the 710 rinse gives it a clean/clear look.
     
  9. MoltenTiger

    MoltenTiger Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,187
    Location:
    Down down under
    I noticed this just recently myself - and I have a few ideas to share about it.

    The stains are hard to see without looking for them, and are probable for everyone doing a soak and sit style cleaning, this can easily allow for residue to form on the outside of the glass, and generally the outside is not rinsed as thoroughly as the internals. The stuff is very concentrated, and so running it under water is inadequate to remove the entirety of the chemical, which eventually evaps down and leaves a salt residue on the surface of the glass, if allowed - this doesn't seem to alter the borosilcate but it sticks to it pretty convincingly.
    I've had minimal success with concentrated isopropyl alcohol and elbow grease with a cotton rag to buff off the salt deposits. A detergent agent or maybe some other chemistry needs to be utilised to rid it, but also scrubbing is going to make the process much simpler.

    The internals of the piece are generally going to be rinsed more thoroughly due to the fact it gets soaked rather than simply run under a tap, I'm guessing this allows for much greater dilution potential by the water, which massively aids the free rinsing principles of the solution (being that given the right procedure PBW will be entirely washed away-ish) exposure isn't of great concern IMO, but it's certainly in our collective interest to go overboard with the rinsing (alcohol must also be rinsed thoroughly from paraphernalia and is riskier, I think).

    To avoid staining the externals or intricacies of a glass rig, I'm thinking a final soak, of complete submersion, is possibly necessary. Perhaps in hot water, perhaps in a detergent (I have some 'no bong pong' eucalypt based soap that is quite a good/basic blend, then that can be rinsed more simply again, and then it should be super duper clean and fresh and safe).
     
    duff, CuckFumbustion, ataxian and 2 others like this.
  10. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,937
    Wow, I have not had any issues and I use it all of the time on custom USA pieces as well as cheap DHGate pieces.

    I also bring a small amount of water (less than a cup I think) to almost a boil and then watch I do NOT use too much PBW. Better to do it twice than to overload it by trying a one and done.

    I stir the PBW to make sure its completely dissolved, add to the glass, fill with hot water, and I do not let it sit longer than 5-7 minutes. If not completely clean at the end of this, repeat the process.

    Glass comes out pristine, IME.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017
    duff, CuckFumbustion, ataxian and 5 others like this.
  11. MoltenTiger

    MoltenTiger Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,187
    Location:
    Down down under
    yeah it's definitely a concentration issue, but it might be worth it to examine the glass surface with a powerful cree led torch, I spotted some on my SoL tube, but it's not a permanent scar so it's not the end of the world.

    They are pretty bloody hard to get rid of though!
     
    CuckFumbustion and ataxian like this.
  12. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,937
    hehehehe...if I can't see it with the naked eye, it doesn't exist. LOL
     
  13. MoltenTiger

    MoltenTiger Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,187
    Location:
    Down down under
    well naked eye detection under artificial light (such as display lighting) showing nasty corrosive streaky deposits on artisan pieces is enough for me to change my methods, but only for some pieces
     
    CuckFumbustion, ataxian and SSVUN~YAH like this.
  14. vapen00b

    vapen00b various on-demand full convection units

    Messages:
    1,367
    @Gn0sis Have ya tried to use citric acid to get rid of the water stains??
    I was fighting those stains with all kinds of stuff. Beginning with PBW... but citric acid made it spotless for me again.


    Good luck!
     
  15. Gn0sis

    Gn0sis Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    167
    Thanks for the suggestion. I will try that when I'm back home from a business trip.
     
  16. StormyPinkness

    StormyPinkness Rhymenocerous ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ

    Messages:
    1,676
    Location:
    California
    I finally tried some of this last weekend and I was blown away. I normally just fill my glass with iso, cover the holes, and leave it out in the sun for a day or 2. That's always been super easy and worked for me well in the past. This last time though it didn't clean it as well as I'd like. 35 minutes of pbw in there cleaned it that extra little bit the iso didn't seem to be able to. Quick water rinse, iso rinse, and another water rinse and it was like new again. I'm curious to see if it will clean as well without iso having a go at it first.
     
    duff, CuckFumbustion, ataxian and 4 others like this.
  17. Likes2vape

    Likes2vape Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,051
    Location:
    On top of a Magic Mountain
    I always clean with ISO first and then PBW my pieces. The ISO gets all the gooey stuff and the pbw gets anything the ISO missed. PBW makes my glass sparkle like brand new I love it!
     
  18. t-dub

    t-dub Vapor Sloth

    Messages:
    7,434
    Location:
    Oregon
    Nice to hear folks are doing well with PBW. Remember . . . always use the least amount of chemical necessary to get the job done. Flush with as much water as possible to rinse . . . :peace:

    Enjoy . . .. :cool:

    Click to play YouTube Video
     
  19. CuckFumbustion

    CuckFumbustion Lo and Behold! The transformative power of Vapor.

    Messages:
    1,684
    Location:
    Cuckfumbustion Central
    [​IMG]
    Yea, they have a liquid version in their cleaning kit. Note the directions on the side. :cool: Cleaning Kit - xhl

    @t-dub care to comment? I'm using my lab spoon and taking out granules for my pieces. Should they know more of what NOT to use it for perhaps? :hmm:
     
  20. Shrike

    Shrike bSquared

    Messages:
    1,145
    Location:
    Hyperion
    Not sure that's an actual liquid version of Powdered Brewer's Wash. It does still say "powdered" in their kit. Looks to me just like a smaller container. You just add an oz of PBW to a gal of water according to the instructions on the bottle.

    If it was actually a liquid version, then their price is even more exorbitant for this kit. But, the small bottle would make it easier to take with you if you need to clean glass on the road.
     
  21. CuckFumbustion

    CuckFumbustion Lo and Behold! The transformative power of Vapor.

    Messages:
    1,684
    Location:
    Cuckfumbustion Central
    The container and top did throw me off. :uhh: So it's probably just a bottle size to fit with the kit and extras. $34.99 isn't as exorbitant If you had to get everything in one purchase. As say a one time buyer. Extra long swabs?

    Glad I got 1lb of PBW on ebay and heavy duty test tube cleaners after reading up on this here thread.

    I try to clean off anything that wants to come off first by emptying then warm rinsing. That way there is less particles and surface that needs to be clean. The globs like to stick to each other. So I might agitate a little as a pour the water out. So they don't restick to the glass and to each other.

    Once I felt like I had a routine and got to know the more common problem areas. Then it became easier to clean it after I say accidentally combustive in it. :cuss: Less than 10m and back to using it. :tup:

    KIM I use ISO to melt problem areas. Then whatever PBW method gets the best results for the bulk of the work. And after clean rinsing a piece to nearly my satisfaction. Disinfect with ISO one more time with a warm rinse wash. Fill to with the desired water and vape.

    Does anybody think ISO melts PBW residue? :peace:
     
  22. Likes2vape

    Likes2vape Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,051
    Location:
    On top of a Magic Mountain
    No I don’t think ISO melts PBW residue. I accidentally added to much PBW to a piece once and had some stick in the piece. The only thing that worked to remove it was to use water HOT water. ISO didn’t budge it.
     
  23. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,937
    yeah, not really. What I do find is that PBW isn't that good on true concentrate reclaim...honey looking stuff in your enail drop down and rig kinda stuff.

    For that, ISO or ethanol works well followed by PBW to clean it all up.
     
  24. t-dub

    t-dub Vapor Sloth

    Messages:
    7,434
    Location:
    Oregon
    I wouldn't buy a liquid preparation of PBW for a couple of reasons.

    First, its not a good deal. In general, anytime you buy chemicals in a liquid form, when a dry concentrate exists, it stands to reason that your going to paying for a lot of water weight, or whatever solvent is in use. The companies that produce laundry soap and dishwasher soap are a good example of this. The industry has moved to selling higher concentrated soaps that work better and give you more bang for the buck with less weight.

    Second, one of the best things about PBW is the initial burst of oxygen bubbles when you mix it in vitro. I can't imagine a prepared solution would have that kind of energy. Once dissolved you have to think about shelf life issues and how the product will change over time. The concentrate is stable.
     
  25. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,482
    X2 My tiny little bag of PBW will make many many gallons of mix.
    FYI, reading the (partial) label in the VXL pic, it looks like 160 F is the best temp for mixing it.

    I have a hunch that many on here mix with hot tap water. I heat mine to just under boiling and
    then mix after it slightly cools for a minute.
    The hotter the water, the better it dissolves.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2017

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