Discontinued Healthy Rips FIERCE

[Wolf46]

so i bought a fierce with an additional battery and the bent stem, it will arrive next week (i hope, it's shipped from uk)

do you have any beginner advise? (not my first vape rodeo but first time with a HR device)

is something like this good for charging on the fly?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/10400mAh-P...=gateway&sprefix=powerbank+usb,aps,185&sr=8-7
thanks.

 

[justcametomind]

so i bought a fierce with an additional battery and the bent stem, it will arrive next week (i hope, it's shipped from uk)

do you have any beginner advise? (not my first vape rodeo but first time with a HR device)

is something like this good for charging on the fly?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/10400mAh-Portable-Charger-External-compatible/dp/B07JMP1FLN/ref=sr_1_7?crid=311PLZCNZ7I9Z&keywords=powerbank+usb+c&qid=1564009014&s=gateway&sprefix=powerbank+usb,aps,185&sr=8-7
thanks.

I’m in the same boat but I got it from HR. Hope not to pay too much for custom duties.
If the power bank has usb C outlet you should be fine. Fury 2 was my outdoor daily driver for the last 3 years but I thought I’d like to try Fierce bigger bowl.

 

[Wolf46]

i bought a fierce to pension\switch my arizer air 1.
is not the best in anything but it's a jack of all trade and that's enough for me.

it will arrive jul31 (at least from the shipping tracking).
very excited.

 

[LesPlenty]

Totally different vapes (AA=conducion, Fierce=mostly convection), good to have both, I believe the Fierce will also make a home with me at some stage. It will be good to hear how you like it @Wolf46 after being used to the AA.

 

[OF]

Totally different vapes (AA=conducion, Fierce=mostly convection), good to have both, I believe the Fierce will also make a home with me at some stage.

I get it this is a common belief, aided by advertising from various makers, but IMO there is no such thing as 'hybrid conduction/convection'. The two processes happen at much different temperatures. You can have one, or the other, but not both making vapor for you.

Consider that convection doesn't benefit from 'heat soaks'. In fact, just the opposite. That is letting them sit idle (no airflow, therefore no convection heating possible) they cool down......meaning a prolonged 'heating draw' to get going on the next hit? Conduction, however, does benefit from a rest between hits for the heat to conduct in and replace the heat the cooler air drawn in for the hit depleted. Like happens here? Preheating air can lessen the heat energy 'stolen' from the conduction heated load (that would otherwise make vapor) but the input air has to be much less on average than 400F (since only a small fraction of the molecules make actual contact with heated metal) it therefore makes no vapor on it's own.

Conduction vapes offer 'instant vapor' after an idle period.

Thermovape has a heat source about 1300F (not 400) and still exhibits this 'have to hit an idle load a bit to make vapor' effect. Unlike Solo/Air/ArGo, Fury and FIERCE.

That's the way it worked when I went to school. And what in turn I taught the students when the time came. Same rules for cooling semiconductors as heating herb.....has to be.

Convection is also a power hog, short battery life is another indicator. Conduction vapes make more vapor per mAh than convection.

Not that the name is really all that important, how the heat gets there doesn't really effect the vapor production, but if we're going to use technical terms I think we should do so correctly? BTW, radiation takes an even hotter source to be practical. Bender (I think that's the Delta 9 model name) has an incandescent source with the load wrapped closely around it. Over 2000F IIRC.

Regards to all......in both hemispheres.

OF

 

[Wolf46]

Totally different vapes (AA=conducion, Fierce=mostly convection), good to have both, I believe the Fierce will also make a home with me at some stage. It will be good to hear how you like it @Wolf46 after being used to the AA.

Aren't they both hybrid? The air is not pure conduction...

Onestly i just hope for a better airflow, better heat up time, a better battery life life more extraction power and the fierce seems a good upgrade coming from an arizer air.
The only downside is probably a worst taste...

 

[LesPlenty]

Put is this way then, AA OG hard suck, Fierce easy suck, very different vapes.

 

[OF]

Aren't they both hybrid? The air is not pure conduction...

Onestly i just hope for a better airflow, better heat up time, a better battery life life more extraction power and the fierce seems a good upgrade coming from an arizer air.
The only downside is probably a worst taste...

I still don't believe there is any such animal as a hybrid here. One or the other. The two modes use different temperatures in different ways. Convection simply won't heat the load hot enough at the available (cup) temperatures......even it the air actually got that hot which I maintain it cannot on average.

I'm not sure if it's a really good analogy but you can push ('walk') or ride a bicycle but not at the same time?

The other things on your wish list I think are definitely in store for you. Less restriction for sure, although that doesn't really mean 'bigger clouds' with more vapor since the vapor can only form so fast. If you draw 'too fast' you get more dilute vapor. We found this out with the PVHES offerings from our friends at Planet Vape early on. Sipping gets more of the available vapor (less incoming air 'robbing' heat) in a more concentrated form. Just the opposite of blazing experience (where more air means a hotter fire). Still less restricted for sure. And for sure more sessions per charge with faster 'cold start to full vapor' times. Lots to recommend it.

I'm not sure about the taste issue, pretty subjective for my blood. IMO most of the 'problem' with conduction vapes is caused by not being able to keep them clean? Freshly cleaned glass in Solo/Air/Argo can deliver very nice taste I think? But when fouled, even a little bit, that fouling is going to get heated before the new load?

Put is this way then, AA OG hard suck, Fierce easy suck, very different vapes.

Amen! FIERCE definitely has less draw resistance, especially if you add a screen to Solo/Air/ArGo as many of us do. Your call if it's a good thing. I just maintain it's not really convection. Very different indeed, IMO each has it's place (they sure do for me personally). We very much agree there.

Here's a fun idea for your consideration. Half a century ago, when I was a lad sitting in a Physics lecture on this good stuff, the Prof made an interesting point. From a Physics POV convection is simply a special case of conduction, involving a 'working fluid' (air in our case, water in your car, and so on). Heat is still moved molecule to molecule by conduction through the metal of your engine block, then by conduction into the coolant then by conduction again to the radiator core and finally by conduction to the air. He quipped something like 'we only invented convection so the Engineers could deal with it'. He's no doubt dead now.

Radiation is a different beast for sure.

"A rose, by any other name, would smell as sweet" as the Bard said long before my time?

Regards to all.

OF

 

[Shit Snacks]

I still don't believe there is any such animal as a hybrid here. One or the other. The two modes use different temperatures in different ways. Convection simply won't heat the load hot enough at the available (cup) temperatures......even it the air actually got that hot which I maintain it cannot on average.

I'm not sure if it's a really good analogy but you can push ('walk') or ride a bicycle but not at the same time?

The other things on your wish list I think are definitely in store for you. Less restriction for sure, although that doesn't really mean 'bigger clouds' with more vapor since the vapor can only form so fast. If you draw 'too fast' you get more dilute vapor. We found this out with the PVHES offerings from our friends at Planet Vape early on. Sipping gets more of the available vapor (less incoming air 'robbing' heat) in a more concentrated form. Just the opposite of blazing experience (where more air means a hotter fire). Still less restricted for sure. And for sure more sessions per charge with faster 'cold start to full vapor' times. Lots to recommend it.

I'm not sure about the taste issue, pretty subjective for my blood. IMO most of the 'problem' with conduction vapes is caused by not being able to keep them clean? Freshly cleaned glass in Solo/Air/Argo can deliver very nice taste I think? But when fouled, even a little bit, that fouling is going to get heated before the new load?



Amen! FIERCE definitely has less draw resistance, especially if you add a screen to Solo/Air/ArGo as many of us do. Your call if it's a good thing. I just maintain it's not really convection. Very different indeed, IMO each has it's place (they sure do for me personally). We very much agree there.

Here's a fun idea for your consideration. Half a century ago, when I was a lad sitting in a Physics lecture on this good stuff, the Prof made an interesting point. From a Physics POV convection is simply a special case of conduction, involving a 'working fluid' (air in our case, water in your car, and so on). Heat is still moved molecule to molecule by conduction through the metal of your engine block, then by conduction into the coolant then by conduction again to the radiator core and finally by conduction to the air. He quipped something like 'we only invented convection so the Engineers could deal with it'. He's no doubt dead now.

Radiation is a different beast for sure.

"A rose, by any other name, would smell as sweet" as the Bard said long before my time?

Regards to all.

OF

To be fair, for you're bike analogy, yes that doesn't work as one person can only do one of those things at one time, BUT I bicycle can indeed be ridden and pushed at the same time if someone else is doing the pushing... two force sources.

To me, that is what hybrid heating implies. I don't think the standard science terms are the same precise definition for our use in vapes. A Pax, Air, and Fierce all heat differently with different amounts of power (another huge factor)... Fierce is the only one you can heat up, insert a fresh cold stem into, and get vapor right away from your inhale -- for me that is convection vape, making vapor with my draw. Since it is a session style vape, there is bound to be some radiant conduction, from bowl or glass what have you. These small portables put out a lot of heat that must go somewhere.

Anyway my point is, I don't think correcting hybrid, convection, conduction, etc. definitions and terminology is particularly productive for anyone here (even though I realize I jsut did it myself!)

 

[Wolf46]

Put is this way then, AA OG hard suck, Fierce easy suck, very different vapes.

yep, i'm all about how pleasant the "suck" is

I still don't believe there is any such animal as a hybrid here. One or the other. The two modes use different temperatures in different ways. Convection simply won't heat the load hot enough at the available (cup) temperatures......even it the air actually got that hot which I maintain it cannot on average.

I'm not sure if it's a really good analogy but you can push ('walk') or ride a bicycle but not at the same time?

The other things on your wish list I think are definitely in store for you. Less restriction for sure, although that doesn't really mean 'bigger clouds' with more vapor since the vapor can only form so fast. If you draw 'too fast' you get more dilute vapor. We found this out with the PVHES offerings from our friends at Planet Vape early on. Sipping gets more of the available vapor (less incoming air 'robbing' heat) in a more concentrated form. Just the opposite of blazing experience (where more air means a hotter fire). Still less restricted for sure. And for sure more sessions per charge with faster 'cold start to full vapor' times. Lots to recommend it.

I'm not sure about the taste issue, pretty subjective for my blood. IMO most of the 'problem' with conduction vapes is caused by not being able to keep them clean? Freshly cleaned glass in Solo/Air/Argo can deliver very nice taste I think? But when fouled, even a little bit, that fouling is going to get heated before the new load?



Amen! FIERCE definitely has less draw resistance, especially if you add a screen to Solo/Air/ArGo as many of us do. Your call if it's a good thing. I just maintain it's not really convection. Very different indeed, IMO each has it's place (they sure do for me personally). We very much agree there.

Here's a fun idea for your consideration. Half a century ago, when I was a lad sitting in a Physics lecture on this good stuff, the Prof made an interesting point. From a Physics POV convection is simply a special case of conduction, involving a 'working fluid' (air in our case, water in your car, and so on). Heat is still moved molecule to molecule by conduction through the metal of your engine block, then by conduction into the coolant then by conduction again to the radiator core and finally by conduction to the air. He quipped something like 'we only invented convection so the Engineers could deal with it'. He's no doubt dead now.

Radiation is a different beast for sure.

"A rose, by any other name, would smell as sweet" as the Bard said long before my time?

Regards to all.

OF

yeah i know that a slow draw is better for vapur production, it's not my first rodeo.
but i like to dose my hits by myself and not because the airflow is too restricted, if that make sense.
for the flavour thing, well in the official topic for the fierce i read about very persistent robot fart smell in some units so i don't know how smelly my unit is gonna be.
also both troy on 420zone and sneakypete doesn't seems impressed with the overall flavour of the fierce in their review.
but flavour is kinda secondary to me because the weed in my country is mostly shit level quality...

i'm not even get the stainless steel heater upgrade for the fierce (the one healty rips was discussing some pages ago)

 

[His_Highness]

According to HR the Fierce is a convection technology vape. The following is just one of many mentions on the HR site.

The Convection Technology of the FIERCE combines full hot air convection heating with a very slight amount of radiant heat, giving you massive vapor production from the very first draw.

 

[OF]

According to HR the Fierce is a convection technology vape. The following is just one of many mentions on the HR site.

The Convection Technology of the FIERCE combines full hot air convection heating with a very slight amount of radiant heat, giving you massive vapor production from the very first draw.

Yep, as I said above, "I get it this is a common belief, aided by advertising from various makers" HR is not alone here for sure. I appreciate Capitalism, since 'everyone' says it what would you expect their 'suits' (sales types) to insist on? Doesn't make it so, though. For the (IMO solid) reasons I stated. Thermodynamics is a science, hopefully free from marketing pressures, that has to fit in with all the rest of science.

The fact remains for heated air to bring energy into the load and still stay above 400F (so the vapor doesn't condense again) it has to enter far hotter than 400 when it entered. And that simply can't happen in a system where there is nothing hotter than 400F. Them's the rules.

Nothing against HR (or any other maker) who makes such claims (the ones potential customers want to hear), just not realistic if you understand the science involved......which I suspect few really do? Can anyone point to the flaw in my logic? TIA

This is, of course, not confined to vapes. I used to be very active in airguns. If some guy posted saying he got slightly better groups by oiling his pellets, guys would beg to know the brand of oil....... Human nature I'm sure.

OF

 

[His_Highness]

Yep, as I said above, "I get it this is a common belief, aided by advertising from various makers" HR is not alone here for sure. I appreciate Capitalism, since 'everyone' says it what would you expect their 'suits' (sales types) to insist on? Doesn't make it so, though. For the (IMO solid) reasons I stated. Thermodynamics is a science, hopefully free from marketing pressures, that has to fit in with all the rest of science.

The fact remains for heated air to bring energy into the load and still stay above 400F (so the vapor doesn't condense again) it has to enter far hotter than 400 when it entered. And that simply can't happen in a system where there is nothing hotter than 400F. Them's the rules.

Nothing against HR (or any other maker) who makes such claims (the ones potential customers want to hear), just not realistic if you understand the science involved......which I suspect few really do? Can anyone point to the flaw in my logic? TIA

This is, of course, not confined to vapes. I used to be very active in airguns. If some guy posted saying he got slightly better groups by oiling his pellets, guys would beg to know the brand of oil....... Human nature I'm sure.

OF

Whoa! You're not only contradicting HR but you're implying HR is calling this convection because this is what the customer wants/needs to hear and not because it's true. Either you're wrong or HR isn't practicing truth in advertising. I'd be careful here ......

 

[OF]

Whoa! You're not only contradicting HR but you're implying HR is calling this convection because this is what the customer wants/needs to hear and not because it's true. Either you're wrong or HR isn't practicing truth in advertising. I'd be careful here ......

No, I'm expressing my opinion of how the world works. And why. You decide why some see it different?

This is not the first Forum, I've had this disagreement with folks on the Solo/Air/ArGo pages and VapMan (a personal favorite). Here's a simple experiment I've suggested there which might get open minded folks to understand (it seems to at least end the discussion.....).

Load a stem with a partial load 'high up'. Then insert it just past the seal, but not into the cup, of a heated vape so you get 100% convection with 'no' conduction. Puff away, get any vapor?

Now stick a similar stem into the heated cup and let it sit for a few minutes, 100% conduction with no convection. Then take a quick hit......instant vapor?

I get it guys want their favorite vapes to be convection not conduction (even if they don't understand what's involved) since they 'know' convection is better?

BTW, the VM claims of convection and even radiation being the modes of heating ended when the Maker agreed it's a conduction unit, seems he took the same sorts of classes I did (and understood the concepts)?

I get it that this is heresy to some, indeed most, but it's gospel from my POV. Thermodynamics is a science, subject to question and confirmation by experimentation and objective observation.

Or not.

Thanks for the advice, but I prefer to speak the truth as I understand it, and stand behind those statements with 'proof' (whatever that is).

How can air enter the load, heat it, and exit at 400F if it's not much hotter going in......and where does that heat come from if 400F is the hottest point in the system?

Regards to all.

OF

 

[Shit Snacks]

No, I'm expressing my opinion of how the world works. And why. You decide why some see it different?

This is not the first Forum, I've had this disagreement with folks on the Solo/Air/ArGo pages and VapMan (a personal favorite). Here's a simple experiment I've suggested there which might get open minded folks to understand (it seems to at least end the discussion.....).

Load a stem with a partial load 'high up'. Then insert it just past the seal, but not into the cup, of a heated vape so you get 100% convection with 'no' conduction. Puff away, get any vapor?

Now stick a similar stem into the heated cup and let it sit for a few minutes, 100% conduction with no convection. Then take a quick hit......instant vapor?

I get it guys want their favorite vapes to be convection not conduction (even if they don't understand what's involved) since they 'know' convection is better?

BTW, the VM claims of convection and even radiation being the modes of heating ended when the Maker agreed it's a conduction unit, seems he took the same sorts of classes I did (and understood the concepts)?

I get it that this is heresy to some, indeed most, but it's gospel from my POV. Thermodynamics is a science, subject to question and confirmation by experimentation and objective observation.

Or not.

Thanks for the advice, but I prefer to speak the truth as I understand it, and stand behind those statements with 'proof' (whatever that is).

How can air enter the load, heat it, and exit at 400F if it's not much hotter going in......and where does that heat come from if 400F is the hottest point in the system?

Regards to all.

OF

How do you know 400F is the hottest? Many similar products have coil heat up higher (temp being a relative calculation) ... Also if you don't insert a stem all the way, there may be airgaps affecting the vapor production (not a lack of hot walls)

Regardless of all the science, here we have vaporization from inhale, which most refer to as convection. Despite any vaporization from conduction, this is effectively convection for sure.

Personally I don't think comparisons to other products matters, I don't think comparing to standard scientific principles is relevant either frankly. I don't even know why I am responding again

 

[His_Highness]

No, I'm expressing my opinion of how the world works. And why. You decide why some see it different?

This is not the first Forum, I've had this disagreement with folks on the Solo/Air/ArGo pages and VapMan (a personal favorite).

Thanks for the advice, but I prefer to speak the truth as I understand it, and stand behind those statements with 'proof' (whatever that is).

How can air enter the load, heat it, and exit at 400F if it's not much hotter going in......and where does that heat come from if 400F is the hottest point in the system?

Regards to all.

OF

Gotta give you credit....you got balls so big I'm not sure how you walk with those things. I hope you're truth is worth taking a swing at the manufacturers reputation like that. It's one thing to question the science it's quite another to imply the claim isn't true and was made to increase sales.

I've worked with sales types who never confuse doing with selling and........ I don't put HR in that category.

 

[OF]

Personally I don't think comparisons to other products matters, I don't think comparing to standard scientific principles is relevant either frankly. I don't even know why I am responding again

While I disagree with the first (as long as there's similarity), we are of one accord on the second point. If you don't think scientific principles are important........

For myself, this should be a place where we use technical terms accurately or not at all.

Thanks for participating in any event. I appreciate your views.

It's one thing to question the science it's quite another to imply the claim isn't true and was made to increase sales.

I've worked with sales types who never confuse doing with selling and........ I don't put HR in that category.

I know those 'suits', or at least many like them. In the end they are a necessary part of the team, without them you have no customers.....and then no job?

I think the world of HR, and have said so many many times. Still do. Outstanding outfit, but it doesn't mean they're scientists or really understand the claims? They have their opinion here, I have mine, I've given the reasoning behind mine...... I'm betting they (or the other makers and 'expert reviewers' who make this claim) can cite such support. How many of them honestly paid that much attention in science classes, enough to remember the important details these days? I sure don't blame them for that, not think they're being intentionally dishonest. The almost certainly believe what they say is true.

Have you tried the experiment I suggested? Will you, please?

This is far from the only case where we collectively use terms incorrectly. Like 'battery' when we mean cell. What folks call 'flashlight batteries' are really 'D cells" and only become a battery when you put two or more in the flashlight and turn it on. Same with artillery, one piece is a cannon or field gun, two or more working together is a battery? Or using 'light years' like it's a measure of time (it's really a measure of distance). Or a personal favorite 'they were decimated' by some event. No, devastated perhaps, decimated is something entirely different. Look it up, it's when a Roman Legion was punished for poor performance in battle. They were ordered to draw lots and one in ten ('deci'?) were beat to death by their fellows. In a few cases, for severe failure, they were 'double decimated' (2 in 10, 1 in five, killed). That's motivation, Roman style. Much much different than a bad storm wrecking the town. People using terms that sound good they don't really understand? Just because 'everyone says it's so' doesn't mean it is. Until it is so pervasive we give up and change the definition of words to suit the majority? Too bad, English, used correctly, is a powerful communication tool. Even with the funny spelling and irregular verbs.

TIA for considering the experiment.

OF

 

[Shit Snacks]

While I disagree with the first (as long as there's similarity), we are of one accord on the second point. If you don't think scientific principles are important........

For myself, this should be a place where we use technical terms accurately or not at all.

Thanks for participating in any event. I appreciate your views.



I know those 'suits', or at least many like them. In the end they are a necessary part of the team, without them you have no customers.....and then no job?

I think the world of HR, and have said so many many times. Still do. Outstanding outfit, but it doesn't mean they're scientists or really understand the claims? They have their opinion here, I have mine, I've given the reasoning behind mine...... I'm betting they (or the other makers and 'expert reviewers' who make this claim) can cite such support. How many of them honestly paid that much attention in science classes, enough to remember the important details these days? I sure don't blame them for that, not think they're being intentionally dishonest. The almost certainly believe what they say is true.

Have you tried the experiment I suggested? Will you, please?

This is far from the only case where we collectively use terms incorrectly. Like 'battery' when we mean cell. What folks call 'flashlight batteries' are really 'D cells" and only become a battery when you put two or more in the flashlight and turn it on. Same with artillery, one piece is a cannon or field gun, two or more working together is a battery? Or using 'light years' like it's a measure of time (it's really a measure of distance). Or a personal favorite 'they were decimated' by some event. No, devastated perhaps, decimated is something entirely different. Look it up, it's when a Roman Legion was punished for poor performance in battle. They were ordered to draw lots and one in ten ('deci'?) were beat to death by their fellows. In a few cases, for severe failure, they were 'double decimated' (2 in 10, 1 in five, killed). That's motivation, Roman style. Much much different than a bad storm wrecking the town. People using terms that sound good they don't really understand? Just because 'everyone says it's so' doesn't mean it is. Until it is so pervasive we give up and change the definition of words to suit the majority? Too bad, English, used correctly, is a powerful communication tool. Even with the funny spelling and irregular verbs.

TIA for considering the experiment.

OF

Just wanted to add, English is also dynamic, hell we only had vape added to dictionaries recently. I think for me, and maybe others, this just comes off as you trying to corral others into using your own preferred terminology... A common occurrence for logical thinkers like us, but potentially annoying many others (in my experience). Universal terms be tricky!

 

[Stu]

@OF is entitled to his opinion about the existence of hybrid vaporizers, but I feel obligated to note that his thoughts on the matter are his alone and do not represent the majority of FC members who have opined on the subject. By @OF's definition, convection ovens don't exist because they don't work solely on the principle of convection.

We have beat this subject up enough elsewhere and I feel that it does nothing to bring it up in every vape thread that claims hybrid heating is in play.

If someone wants to research and/or discuss the topic further, please do so in a dedicated thread that we already have on the subject or feel free to create a new thread about whether or not hybrid vapes exist (hint: they do).

Thanks.

 

[ohmygodimsohigh]

@OF is entitled to his opinion about the existence of hybrid vaporizers, but I feel obligated to note that his thoughts on the matter are his alone and do not represent the majority of FC members who have opined on the subject. By @OF's definition, convection ovens don't exist because they don't work solely on the principle of convection.

We have beat this subject up enough elsewhere and I feel that it does nothing to bring it up in every vape thread that claims hybrid heating is in play.

If someone wants to research and/or discuss the topic further, please do so in a dedicated thread that we already have on the subject or feel free to create a new thread about whether or not hybrid vapes exist (hint: they do).

Thanks.

I wasn't able to like your post more than once, so I'm going to quote it as an additional means of showing my approval.

 

[ChooChooCharlie]

Let's ask what's happenin'?

Is the air preheated by design?

If yes, I say hybrid
If no, I say conduction

Perhaps a useful line of demarcation that can satisfy most?

Who am I kidding?!

 

[wx6896]

I've definitely noticed that if you blow slightly into the mouthpiece on a fresh bowl in the fierce that a bunch of vapor will come out the bottom vent. This implies there's a lot of conduction going on as the heater would have to be below the bowl, so the heat isn't coming from warm air when blowing from top to bottom. I've never tried, but if you continued this, it would seem to indicate mostly conduction heating. Another test would be to put a fresh bowl in and leave it upside down, so you could rule out the bowl being heated simply from heat rising upward into the bowl. An interesting test would be to see the heat of air at various points in the air path during a pull, then you could decide more easily if that air is really warm enough to provide "convection" heating, because if it's really lower than the bowl temp, it's really just cooling the load.

 

[PPN]

Just want to add my thoughts about the debated topic...

If you start to draw, get vapor quickly and if you can see/feel the vapor density decrease while drawing, so huge conduction is involved.

If you start to draw, had to "build" vapor density with long hits and the vapor production increase during the hit so a lot of convection is involved.

Basically a true hybrid device have to get 2 heaters, one for the bowl (conduction heater) and the convection heater placed far enough of the load. Most actuals "hybrids" only get one heater so you get some convection on the beginning of the session and more conduction at the end, not true hybrid for me but I agree this is works very well too to get the most out of your load equally in term of taste, vapor production and efficiency.

I understand the @OF statement, even with a well placed convection heater some conduction is involved with time. Although using some woods or other components can helps to decrease that radiant conduction effect and using on-demands tek (Iheat, Splinter,...) this secondary conduction heat is very minimal... imho!

 

[Solomon]

The proposition is - "Does the Fierce produce vapor when only air is pulled thru the material away from contact with a heated surface?"

So I tried it with the Fierce.

Using the bent glass stem, I loaded the material into the glass and then inserted a "sombrero hat" screen creating a concave air space below the material to keep it away from the metal bowl. I then made sure the glass was positioned just on the rim of the metal bowl (which was easy since the screen physically stopped the glass from going into the metal bowl.)

Set the temp on the high side - 390 - and gave it a go!

The answer is a resounding YES, it does vape, and it vapes well using nothing but hot air. It was only a bit lighter than a fully inserted "dosage can", and I did up the temp to 400 to finish it. The material was fully and evenly vaped. Repeated experiment again to confirm results.

So assuming physics has not changed this week, some of the original assumptions must be wrong. For one thing, the temp setting does not equate to the actual temp of the "hot air" or the heating element. Reminds me of the 100% pure convection Haze Square - the heating element went well over 1000 degrees to produce a bowl/vape temp of 400.

So since the Fierce can vape an entire bowl using nothing but air (convection), but also has a metal bowl which stores and transfers heat at the same time, it must - according to physics - be transferring heat to the material using both methods. Call it what you want, but it sure sounds like a "hybrid" to me

(PS - I might do a short video of this if anyone doubts the results)

 

[Wolf46]

Another comparation from troy

Is it me or he is kinda tepid about the fierce?
(Still my favourite vape channel tho)