Happycamper's House of Denial brought to you by ExxonMobil

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Happycamper

Sweet Dreams Babycakes
King Kong said:
The Age Of Stupid
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1300563/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Age_of_Stupid

A future archivist looks at old footage from the year 2008 to understand why humankind failed to address climate change.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dTyTTFgluk

Check it out, it was a pretty good documentary...
Im trying not to get snowed under with propaganda (and also in real life lol), so think i'll give it a miss.

Maybe there are more pressing things that as humans we need to change, before we waste unbelievable amounts of money on the nonsense that is co2 warming.

For example something like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2d43ie9Mx0

I won't show the video from China where they skin Mink animals when they are still alive. These are the sort of atrocities that Humans need to be stopped from doing.
 
Happycamper,

stickstones

Vapor concierge
The math on the $3K per family has to be wrong. The expected figure for the year 2010 would be $100 per person in the US...not including other countries or their populations. And I think the latest figures I read some while back stated that only 40% of americans pay income taxes anyhow (which would make it $250 per taxable person), so they wouldn't be able to tax the remainder of the population. My family of five would pay $1,250. I don't think this will ever happen. If there is a tax for this, it will have to be much more subtle and have very little direct ties to the income tax.
 
stickstones,

Happycamper

Sweet Dreams Babycakes
manchild said:
Happycamper said:
For example something like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2d43ie9Mx0

I won't show the video from China where they skin Mink animals when they are still alive. These are the sort of atrocities that Humans need to be stopped from doing.
Rappin Rolf! He's so versatile :lol:

Surely they could've spliced a wobble board sample into that song!
One thing is for sure, I trust Rolf a lot more than all the phony politicians grasping onto climate change for all the wrong reasons.
 
Happycamper,

Happycamper

Sweet Dreams Babycakes
stickstones said:
The math on the $3K per family has to be wrong. The expected figure for the year 2010 would be $100 per person in the US...not including other countries or their populations. And I think the latest figures I read some while back stated that only 40% of americans pay income taxes anyhow (which would make it $250 per taxable person), so they wouldn't be able to tax the remainder of the population. My family of five would pay $1,250. I don't think this will ever happen. If there is a tax for this, it will have to be much more subtle and have very little direct ties to the income tax.
In the uk we are estimated to pay about 1500 per family. I just dont think people realise how much this is going to cost.

Forget travelling anywhere when the cheapest cost of a flight to new York from uk is going to be near 1000. (edit: well for us normal people, obviously all the people deciding this won't be effected in the slightest).
 
Happycamper,

manchild

Vapourist
stickstones said:
The math on the $3K per family has to be wrong. The expected figure for the year 2010 would be $100 per person in the US...not including other countries or their populations. And I think the latest figures I read some while back stated that only 40% of americans pay income taxes anyhow (which would make it $250 per taxable person), so they wouldn't be able to tax the remainder of the population. My family of five would pay $1,250. I don't think this will ever happen. If there is a tax for this, it will have to be much more subtle and have very little direct ties to the income tax.
Honestly it would be near impossible to calculate the exact cost especially for a family unit which can be defined in an infinite amount of ways. The $3000 figure is just another example of the outrageous scare tactics being used by climate change sceptics. To use it as a piece of evidence is pretty clear evidence of the level of research involved in this thread. We all know jack $#*&! when it comes to this topic really. I can't believe i stooped so low and posted in this thread. But i just couldn't resist :lol::lol:

I think Rolf is on the climate change band wagon. Probably for the right reasons too!
 
manchild,

Happycamper

Sweet Dreams Babycakes
manchild said:
stickstones said:
The math on the $3K per family has to be wrong. The expected figure for the year 2010 would be $100 per person in the US...not including other countries or their populations. And I think the latest figures I read some while back stated that only 40% of americans pay income taxes anyhow (which would make it $250 per taxable person), so they wouldn't be able to tax the remainder of the population. My family of five would pay $1,250. I don't think this will ever happen. If there is a tax for this, it will have to be much more subtle and have very little direct ties to the income tax.
Honestly it would be near impossible to calculate the exact cost especially for a family unit which can be defined in an infinite amount of ways. The $3000 figure is just another example of the outrageous scare tactics being used by climate change sceptics. To use it as a piece of evidence is pretty clear evidence of the level of research involved in this thread. We all know jack $#*&! when it comes to this topic really. I can't believe i stooped so low and posted in this thread. But i just couldn't resist :lol::lol:

I think Rolf is on the climate change band wagon. Probably for the right reasons too!
Scare tactics!

Come off it. The only side using scare tactics are used by the pro manmade global warming. The day they can show a graph that has not been modified and goes further than 160 years they might get my attention.

So if you have had to lower yourself posting here, the simple answer is dont and remove all your previous posts.
 
Happycamper,

manchild

Vapourist
Scare tactics are exactly what they are. They are being used by both sides of the arguement.

I'm not gonna remove my posts because they help balance out this thread which is full of lies.
 
manchild,

Happycamper

Sweet Dreams Babycakes
Where is the warming then? Prove it. Because i can prove the cooling.

Also with regard to Rolf Harris I think you are confusing an environmentalist who cares about nature and wildlife (like I do) with an extremist. He is not an extremist. I can't find anywhere that he backs the whole manmade warming by co2.
 
Happycamper,

manchild

Vapourist
With your googled graphs and you tube videos maybe. they just don't cut it. What your saying is every reputable scientist has altered their graphs to show an increase in temperature. WTF that is so ridiculous that i'm astounded. Since you are the one arguing against the greater scientific consensus i would definitely say the honus is on you to do the proving. Show me some peer reviewed literature backing up your proof. Something you have found in the literature yourself, not directed to by a sceptic.

Just because it is snowing in winter doesn't mean the globe isn't warming.
 
manchild,

stickstones

Vapor concierge
manchild said:
The $3000 figure is just another example of the outrageous scare tactics being used by climate change sceptics. To use it as a piece of evidence is pretty clear evidence of the level of research involved in this thread. We all know jack $#*&! when it comes to this topic really. I can't believe i stooped so low and posted in this thread. But i just couldn't resist :lol::lol:

I think Rolf is on the climate change band wagon. Probably for the right reasons too!
This is a good example of the problem with this subject. It is filled with people on the extreme sides of the argument with not enough people in the middle and a neutral attitude.

Global warming advocates use massive amounts of scare tactics to get legislation rammed through. Global warming skeptics fight back with the same scare tactics. Where are all the people in the middle who just want to sort it out and move forward logically?

Global warming advocates come to this thread (or any discussion about the subject) and call everybody stupid and conspiracy theorists. Global warming skeptics call everyone else brainwashed and braindead.

And this dynamic isn't just about global warming. It has become the new political landscape. Everything is explained in exaggerations with derogatory comments.
 
stickstones,

manchild

Vapourist
I am a scientist. If i see reputable evidence my views will be swayed in the direction of that reputable evidence. That is how science works. At this stage i think it's clear what side of the arguement i lie.

Peace out dudes. I really didn't want to start arguements with fellow enlightened vaporists! I know i can't sway anyones thoughts on this topic and i do respect everyones views despite what i may have indicated. So i'll stop here. :peace::peace:
 
manchild,

stuartambient

Well-Known Member
manchild said:
I am a scientist. If i see reputable evidence my views will be swayed in the direction of that reputable evidence. That is how science works. At this stage i think it's clear what side of the arguement i lie.

Peace out dudes. I really didn't want to start arguements with fellow enlightened vaporists! I know i can't sway anyones thoughts on this topic and i do respect everyones views despite what i may have indicated. So i'll stop here. :peace::peace:
Despite these basic tenets of science there is certainly much hypothesis , theorems and models that get tossed this way and that and sometimes they gain a respectable census (not sure how much that is worth), sometimes they get diluted, compromise certain points to perhaps fit in with another body of work , and sometimes just fade away as ridiculous.

I can look at the sky at night and at the space between my eyes and realize we know very little.

SA
 
stuartambient,

jeffp

psychonaut/retired
how they the govt impose carbon taxes for health and environmental reasons when tobacco is fully legal, grown and sold in every convenience store.
 
jeffp,

Frickr

Well-Known Member
heres got to be the biggest lie out there and people are eating it up. according to this artical the sun has nothing to do with global warming. How can this be? the sun is only the biggest heater around. if it wasnt for the sun, the earth would be a very very cold place. but these natural sun cycles have nothing to do with global warming??

so according to these "top scientists" the sun, as it goes through its natural heating and cooling phases, doesnt dirrectly affect climate change? do these scientists also believe the world is still flat?? theres about as much logic in believingthe world is flat as there is in saying the sun has nothing to do with heating the earth...

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/07/070712-sun-climate.html

it has to be CO2 causing all this warming huh? considering a volcano will spew out thousands more tons of CO2 in a single eruption. Volcanic activity releases about 130 to 230 teragrams (145 million to 255 million short tons) of carbon dioxide each year.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcano

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_biggest_source_of_carbon_dioxide_emissions
The biggest contributor of Carbon Dioxide is natural and not man made.

With carbon dioxide, it is important to distinguish between natural and man-made sources. One of the largest sources of atmospheric carbon dioxide is through plant and animal decay as microorganisms break down the dead material, releasing carbon dioxide into the air as part of the process. Other naturally occuring sources include forest fires and volcanoes.

Burning fossil fuels is a primary source of greenhouse gases caused by man; as the chemical energy in a hydrocarbon-rich fossil fuel is converted into heat, carbon dioxide is produced as a byproduct. Forest clearing - or deforestation - and the burning of solid waste, wood, and wood products are also sources of atmospheric carbon dioxide.
 
Frickr,

rayski

Well-Known Member
Frickr said:
heres got to be the biggest lie out there and people are eating it up. according to this artical the sun has nothing to do with global warming. How can this be? the sun is only the biggest heater around. if it wasnt for the sun, the earth would be a very very cold place. but these natural sun cycles have nothing to do with global warming??

so according to these "top scientists" the sun, as it goes through its natural heating and cooling phases, doesnt dirrectly affect climate change? do these scientists also believe the world is still flat?? theres about as much logic in believingthe world is flat as there is in saying the sun has nothing to do with heating the earth...
If you're talking about solar activity, it has shown little to no long term trend since the 1950's. Consequently, any correlation between the sun and the climate ended in the 1970's when the modern global warming trend began. No lie. You're wrong.

it has to be CO2 causing all this warming huh? considering a volcano will spew out thousands more tons of CO2 in a single eruption. Volcanic activity releases about 130 to 230 teragrams (145 million to 255 million short tons) of carbon dioxide each year.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcano
Volcanoes emit around 0.3 Gigatonnes of CO2 per year. This is about 1% of human CO2 emissions which is around 26.4 Gigatonnes per year.
The biggest contributor of Carbon Dioxide is natural and not man made.

With carbon dioxide, it is important to distinguish between natural and man-made sources. One of the largest sources of atmospheric carbon dioxide is through plant and animal decay as microorganisms break down the dead material, releasing carbon dioxide into the air as part of the process. Other naturally occuring sources include forest fires and volcanoes.

Burning fossil fuels is a primary source of greenhouse gases caused by man; as the chemical energy in a hydrocarbon-rich fossil fuel is converted into heat, carbon dioxide is produced as a byproduct. Forest clearing - or deforestation - and the burning of solid waste, wood, and wood products are also sources of atmospheric carbon dioxide.
An increase in co2 is contributing to global warming. And human activity is most likely the cause of the higher CO2 emissions.
 
rayski,

Frickr

Well-Known Member
if an increase in co2 is contributing to global warming, how come al gore got caught flipping the graphs around, showing that co2 causes temps to go up, when in actuality when temps go up co2 levels go up?
 
Frickr,

Frickr

Well-Known Member
rayski, i can show you all the scientific evidence in the world, but its not going to change your opinion one bit. i have studied both sides of this matter. ive sat in on lectures of lead scientists, and from everything ive researched, co2 isnt the cause of global warming. the long term data shows we are still in perfectly normal levels. nothing to be alarmed about.

now im not saying we shouldnt be a little more concerened with what we are doing. any thing that will get us off our dependance on fossil fuels will be good things. im not saying we should continue at the rate were going. what i am saying is that all the IPCC data has been falsified, manipulated, and changed to force this agenda down our throats. thats all this whole global warming business has turned into be. a business. theres money to be made. al gore, obama, and bunch of other prominate world leaders, are all making big money on this whole agenda. The only people its helping out are the rich elitests. it will do nothing to help the average citizen.

we have more important problems in our country to worry about. theres thousands of people that cant even afford to put food on their tables, cant put presents under their christmas trees. now places like california are arresting homeless people for being homeless. now instead of spending billions on a unjust war, giving billions to banks to bail them out, paying corperations to move their industries to 3'd world countries, taking jobs out of the american peoples hands, isnt the right coarse of action.

as i have said before, taxes wont help this problem. throwing money into some persons pocket isnt going to fix shit. all thats going to happen is our standard of living in america will go down. Put a cap on the total CO2 production, if a factory exceeds it, shut them down. force them to fix the problem, instead of paying a little extra money to keep going at the same rate. Like i said a tax wont fix shit. We need to fix the problems in our own country before we should worry about everywhere else in the world. When our education funds are being cut to pay for a war that is unpopular, that isnt right. a health care bill that will put politicians in control of who receives medical treatment, and who doesnt isnt right. a global government run by a few select people, who were never voted on to be in charge, but were self appointed isnt right.

if you dont believe me about global government, look it up for yourself. its in UN documents. the EU president was on BBC live admitting to global government. its been on all the major news networks. does this make it a conspiricy? this whole thing stems alot further then just climate change. climate change is just their springboard to global government. research it yourself. its out there. people are waking up to this, im trying to help you see the truth, instead of believing these liers lies. i am not a crazy person thinking big brother is out to get me. i am a sane person who sees our liberties that our ansestors faught and died to protect are being stripped away one by one, in the name of the patriot act, homeland security. you name it.

do you want to have RFID chips implanted into your body so that some computer can keep track of every where you go. everything you do. and if you commit a crime, it will send a signal on your location, and will shut you off from the world? do you feel safer knowing that someone is watching your every move, is making sure you dont get out of line? isnt it your responsibility as an american citizen to question these things, and make sure your liberties, your rights arent being stripped away one by one in the name of terrorism? more people died in their bathtubs last yyear then died by terrorist attacks, but we are spending billions on protection for this why?

cnbc news report http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-1ISx68w1s call it a conspiricy all you want, heres proof its not.

"In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a Patriot." --Mark Twain
 
Frickr,

Purple-Days

Well-Known Member
jeffp said:
how they the govt impose carbon taxes for health and environmental reasons when tobacco is fully legal, grown and sold in every convenience store.
Hahammmmm.... is it any clearer than that, THEY don't give a fuck about YOU.
 
Purple-Days,

Happycamper

Sweet Dreams Babycakes
An alternative view, is that the Earth has been cooling since the 1930s when you had 3 of the 5 warmest years since 1860 in the US, and probably globally if the world environmental data base were cleaned up as is happening in the US.

There are still many solid scientists who think that the amount of warming is so small that it is indistinguishable from the noise in the environment data sets, and that the data have not been properly adjusted for such things as urban heat island effects, and instrument calibration.

This is particularly true of the global data set, even though "urbanization has caused regional increases in temperature that exceed those measured on a global scale, leading to urban heat islands as much as 12C hotter than their surroundings". The global data are a mess.

@ Rayski regarding sun not effecting global temperatures: As the sun goes even quieter and January, 2008 saw the greatest year to year temperature drop ever (128 years of NASA GISS data) and thru the end of 2008 remains relatively cool, it is clear cooling needs to be considered as a very plausible future.
 
Happycamper,

Happycamper

Sweet Dreams Babycakes
World Temperatures according to the Hadley Center for Climate Prediction. Note the steep drop over the last year.Twelve-month long drop in world temperatures wipes out a century of warming

Over the past year, anecdotal evidence for a cooling planet has exploded. China has its coldest winter in 100 years. Baghdad sees its first snow in all recorded history. North America has the most snowcover in 50 years, with places like Wisconsin the highest since record-keeping began. Record levels of Antarctic sea ice, record cold in Minnesota, Texas, Florida, Mexico, Australia, Iran, Greece, South Africa, Greenland, Argentina, Chile -- the list goes on and on.
No more than anecdotal evidence, to be sure. But now, that evidence has been supplanted by hard scientific fact. All four major global temperature tracking outlets (Hadley, NASA's GISS, UAH, RSS) have released updated data. All show that over the past year, global temperatures have dropped precipitously.



Edit: this only goes as far as 2008, the (major rapid cooling) has continued into 2009.

So to conclude THERE HAS BEEN NO WARMING SINCE THE EL NINO IN 1998 AND WE HAVE HAD MAJOR RAPID COOLING SINCE 2007.
 
Happycamper,
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