1. What does SSTB mean? See our glossary of acronyms.
    Dismiss Notice

Ejuice mixes (VG/PG) safety (Journal Article Inside)

Discussion in 'Concentrates' started by herbivore21, Jul 28, 2016.

  1. dutz3013

    dutz3013 Member

    Messages:
    16
  2. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead trance-form

    Messages:
    1,673
    Oh okay, typical prefilled cart. You threw me off when you said "bud." I thought you were saying you saw a portable pen that was prefilled with dry herb. Those prefilled carts use a concentrated cannabis extract.

    What is your question about those carts?
     
  3. dutz3013

    dutz3013 Member

    Messages:
    16
    are they filled with VG/PG typically? Or unhealthy in general? I get the packaged ones that aren't at the dispensarys. (apple dabs, space ape, unlabeled ones)
     
  4. stickstones

    stickstones Vapor concierge Retailer

    Messages:
    11,550
    Typically, yes. Everything I get off-market has PG in it. I went to a dispensary in Vegas and got a prefilled cart they said had no PG or VG in it...just pure oil. I'm not totally sure what that means was in it, but it was three times more expensive, tasted better and was more potent.

    That's what we are trying to figure out in this thread. Not enough science done yet, it seems, but what little we have I am interpreting as not good.
     
    GreenHopper likes this.
  5. herbivore21

    herbivore21 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,278
    Actually man, it's quite clear from the existing research literature (which is not the largest body of literature yet, but nonetheless cogently highlights the following:) that PG and VG, when heated, release problematic compounds which are not safe for inhalation.

    These risks are less than the health risks of smoking cigarettes. For our purposes though; these ejuice mixtures are clearly introducing new risks into cannabis consumption though, when compared to just vaporizing cannabis flower or resin in a purpose made vape without solvents like VG/PG.

    Whether or not people choose to heed that information is their own business, of course. I am not making any judgements on your views on this here man; except to say that the research is IMO, as a researcher, clear enough to warn people away from VG/PG etc in cannabis use scenarios. :peace:
     
    Abysmal Vapor likes this.
  6. stickstones

    stickstones Vapor concierge Retailer

    Messages:
    11,550
    Thanks. That's why I look to you on these things!

    Have you ever seen a prefilled like the one I got that they said didn't have any PG or VG in it? I'm wondering what's in there and why they aren't all like that.
     
  7. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead trance-form

    Messages:
    1,673
    Sure, you can thin oils with terpenes. There's an upcoming brand in SoCal called Gen X, which uses distillate with re-introduced Cannabis terpenes to adjust the viscosity to wick better in these cartridges. They aren't all like that because VG is very cheap and it's extremely lucrative for a processor to cut with VG since they can stretch concentrate by like 50%. This is why the carts are typically sold by the mL and not the gram, because technically you are not actually buying a gram of concentrate, thus they avoid claiming so.
     
    stickstones likes this.
  8. zenmasterofzinfandel

    zenmasterofzinfandel Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    73
    • This post breaks our "Be Nice" rule. Personal attacks are not allowed on FC. Warning point issued.
    Does a bear shit in the woods? Invertedisdead, by own admission, can't find 'fire' rosin in So. Cal. canna-market, pretty much the largest in the world...kind of sad, really...not all that difficult to find if you are really abreast of the local scene. I don't know why they don't have same in CO, whatever.

    I would not recommend any cartridges at all, even taking into account they are pesticide/microbial free... and unfortunately none of the so-called 'researchers' here on FC are willing to post up the article by none other than one of the most renowned cannabis researchers today...Dr. Russo. Easy to find, let me throw you all a bone, Russo is [my characterization of the free published article, much like herbivores opinions] 'dismissive' of all cartridges for one simple reason.

    PPl here who claim to know the Cali mkt, just posers, trying to make internet self-needing/egocentric issues...I guess, who knows what the intent, your guess as good as mine for these forum wanna-be famous armchair experts...who do not really know.

    http://gotbhang.com/products/pure-oil/
    ^
    Bhang PR, & 'pure' have been ubiquitous on the canna mkt in Cali as far back as 2013 when I tried them...and they taste like shit...to me, as do most of them>>>I'm guessing as to a reason for that, but it's not going to be 'popular'...so waste of time to speculate....even if Russo & I end up being correct in our caution, when the research supports it more.

    & there have been plenty more to make this claim since...but tell me something, have you seen lab tests from canna testing firms that list PG/VG/PEG pass/fail in their COA's>>>maybe I have missed that, but have yet to see it. Should be always tested and specifically detailed in the reports, as with all the other concerns for adulterants/contaminants. Why wait for that cart mentioned above, they are already available from numerous sources this day...months ago. Extractioneering has currently distallate added, carts with 25% terps, Sour Diesel >>>on IG if you want to look. Terps ain't all that, no matter what herbivore21 tells you, opinion/feelings on the subject are misguided by inherent bias...without full understanding at all, merely anecdotal personal experiences + placebo effect, IMO.

    > I am quite confident, it is much more complex than herbivore or any other lesser researchers believe....time will tell if I am correct, science will valid that in the coming decade(s).

    Ya know, herbivore lost me with yet another round of excessive 'clear' uses, say it enough times, does it make a compelling argument? For you maybe, not for me...I've been reading and looking at published peer-reviewed scientific studies...since the time herbivore was a unfertilized egg...that long.

    I do not understand why you pin your health, life on an anonymous person; and 'revere' an intentionally obtuse 'Academia/researcher' (anyone can claim that on the internet...how many fruadster canna-phD & quack MD's do you need to read about??? given there are an abundance of these professionals that are not reliable sources of info on any number of health issues. Do you religiously follow Dr.Oz?

    @stickstones I do not expect you to believe me(another anon poster on the net), but I'm going to try to contact a blogger/PhD closer to the levels where I will consider their opinions...will try to get something about the other tread on pesticides in buds, etc. You can follow me to a new thread I'm working on where I will try to post up enough 'street cred' to make it interesting as an introduction of my medical/science based background.

    For now, word association, 6deg of separation: Herbivore21 would have been on cloud 9, to be part of the study I was a lab-rat on for my college professor, try googling, I'll fill in some of the blanks in one of the links to make it more believeable>>>herbibore might even be able to find that 1977 article, was a real eye-opener for me at such an early age, and definitively made me avoid amphetamines after seeing the shocking brain damage:

    Axelrod/Synder/Konorski/?/zMz

    Richard Feyman, Cal Tech Prof, Nobel Prize Physics/?/zMz

    Here's some more ppl I look up to, and maybe a little vice versa.

    http://ucanr.edu/blogs/blogcore/postdetail.cfm?postnum=24745#comments24745

    Many on the alt-med/canna-fringe would chastise Art as 'Monsanto Art' 'Chemical Art'...cause they are ignorant, have never met the man. The man that replaced Art at Honey Crisp after Art's stroke at 89, his farmer neighbor- Ron Cornelian(sp?), was a former USDA grafting expert. PPl in the professional/commercial industries, look up to these ppl.

    Me, I'm not so smart(or maybe I want you to believe that, lol), I dropped out of University, but did not go on to found FB, or M$ as Zuckerberg, Gates; nor did I score a perfect 800 on my SAT's while coming down off of LSD, and also scoring a perfect 800 on a friends test. Ya all calling BS yet?

    http://www.thecultureindex.com/fancy/2014/salon/2014-06/files/seabrook.pdf
    ^The world's foremost pomologist/former heroin addict, no single person on this planet with the encyclopedic data base in their head than him...very, very driven personality

    http://www.lamag.com/digestblog/food-lover-david-karp-fruit-detective/
    This person got kinda frustrated with me at the BHFarmers mkt, when he was passing out CandyCots to vendors/'special' ppl, but it was the 3rd season, I had been tasting them(pre-commerical release at his home the 1st yr)and I wasn't just enough ecstatic in my appearance, telling him they were not quite at that level of the 1st season, to which he said: "you have the most critical fruit palate of anyone I know" When going around the farmer's mkts the past decade, I was a holly terror to the vendors...not many pasted the test on my palate, I in no uncertain terms let them know when I thought they had less than ideal product. any gourmet item you could think of you eat, except white truffles, which are insanely expensive for a taste not worth going more than black; I"m more relentlessly critical than anyone I've met yet...which is kind of frustrating, when only the best will do...all else becomes a let down, compromise :-(

    And yet, the 1st time I met this guy, while tasting fruit with Art Lange at his stand, DK said "I completely disagree, Snow Queen is far superior (to the yellow heirloom nectarine)...and when DK at his usual frenetic pace /rounds through the various frm mkts, took off; Art looked over to me and said: "I agree with you", the yellow flesh Nectarine has more flavor/intensity, has enough acidity, is more perfectly ripe on this day. DK travels all over the world in his research and speaker, so I would often have the same vendors to spend more time talking to them, asking the correct questions such that they know who knows their shit & who is just a poser...many, many 'professional' wholesale produce agents, many famous celebrity chefs<<<they don't know, they can't interface with the growers on the same level as I or DK did. For all his research, I regularly disagreed with his assessments...because I understood more than he did, from years of growing, from my background in winemaking... Ppl, learn winemaking, then you have the opportunity, but not necessarily the intelligence to comprehend that Brix ain't all that, anymore than terps are. HHF/Breeders Choice org; that FC member Hogni obtained questionable 'landrace' sativas from, used to rant about testing both male and female cannabis for Brix levels...another canna BS'er, who misunderstood Brix levels and what they represent. Brix is a tool for helping making assessments, inconsideration of equality important factors, rather than a definitive direct correlation with ideal ripeness levels.

    @vtac or Stu, you guys ever think of getting a module for xeroforo, the 'anti-karma/dislike' ? I think if I took the time to respond to all of the misinformation on the pesticides in buds thread(s), I'm confident with in a short time, I could eclipse herbivore21's thousands of 'likes'...which would be validation that I'm doing a good job dispelling cannaforum myths that keep being propagated by turbo posters internet-wide.
     
  9. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead trance-form

    Messages:
    1,673
    I've made better rosin with a hair straightener than you have in your head stash. You're ALL TALK and NO WALK.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017 at 9:32 PM
  10. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    400
    Which is?

    The Trinity tank is likely to be new and different from available tanks. Disassembled one. Materials and manufacture are a good value even if it performs only as well as available carts. Didn't run a fair test of it (or the terpenes). Will try again soon, starting with shatter instead of crumble.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017 at 9:47 PM

Support FC, visit our trusted friends and sponsors