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Ejuice mixes (VG/PG) safety (Journal Article Inside)

Discussion in 'Concentrates' started by herbivore21, Jul 28, 2016.

  1. THC SCIENTIFIC

    THC SCIENTIFIC To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before Manufacturer

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  2. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead trance-form

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    1,673
    So are they reusable? Even with all the gunk in rosin? And is that $15 for one? What is the heating element made of?
     
  3. herbivore21

    herbivore21 Well-Known Member

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    4,278
    Super stoked to see these see the light of day. A few things to clarify about this one that I have learned (thanks to @THC SCIENTIFIC). The way this was originally described by bubbleman suggested that this tank works with rosin and full melt bubble alone, (that is, without adding terps to liquify the material). However, when I've spoken to Gary and then seen Bubbleman's new videos, it has become very clear that these pens are only for use with liquid preparations which will flow at room temp. According to Tony Verzura's feedback that I've read, the 'pull, push, pull' technique requires you to pull (inhale) on the pen prior to engaging the power in order to suck some liquid concentrate into the vaporization section of the pen. I imagine that this is why you need a liquid concentrate that will flow at room temp in this way.

    Unfortunately, for those who can't find terps or terp added concentrates and who also don't wanna use PG/PEG/VG are shit out of luck with this one. However, this looks like a wonderful option for those who can get there hands on terps or concentrates with added terps to allow for this kind of flow.

    To clarify, from the look of it, this pen will not work with straight rosin/full melt/BHO/etc. You need a liquid with relatively low viscosity.

    Actually I should ask this question:

    @THC SCIENTIFIC - For advanced users who understand the appropriate safety considerations to use this cartridge with a non-stock battery - does this pen work with TC mods?
     
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  4. THC SCIENTIFIC

    THC SCIENTIFIC To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before Manufacturer

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    I would like to say you are correct on everything.

    But because there is always a but.

    We do have something in the works for full melt and rosin without anything being added to it. Just you wait.

    and on to your question

    Trinity Tank has the capability to Temp Control. Enjoy


    It is reusable and we must insist what you put in is what you get out. Good thing about the tank is that its cleanable and reusable. If taken care of properly i dont see why it should not get 10 refills or more.


    with even 5 refills it brings the cost of the tanks down to about $4 each use with 10 you are looking at Just about $1.5 per fill.
     
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  5. herbivore21

    herbivore21 Well-Known Member

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    Oh man, I'm more than happy to be wrong on that one! Can't wait to see the results! I've been waiting for a full melt pen for far too long!

    Glad to hear the Trinity has TC compatibility too :D
     
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  6. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

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    400
    Very hesitant to try mysterious, proprietary terpene preparations. Are these terpenes less of a concern than added flavors generally? Even if all added terpenes are naturally found in cannabis, the concentrations needed to liquefy concentrate could still be a concern. Alternatively, are there defined terpene preparations (one or a limited number of terpenes at known concentrations) that can be researched and used with some confidence?
     
  7. stickstones

    stickstones Vapor concierge Retailer

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    11,550
    are terps runny at room temp? The only terp product I have has been cut with VG.
     
  8. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    400
    State likely varies depending on which terpene. From Wikipedia:
    Concentrate would likely dissolve in turpentine - but wouldn't want to vape it!
     
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  9. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead trance-form

    Messages:
    1,673
    Is it using a Ccell coil? From your testing, what's causing one cart to be trash after 5 refills while another could go 10? Is it gunked up coils or is the battery burning them up? Perhaps you can confirm the temperature range, Bubbleman said they go over 1000 degrees, which seems about 400-500F too hot to me. It sounds like he gave you some numbers on his enail PID and not the actual dish temperature measured with a K-type thermocouple.

    I do find these style carts with the fixed center post can be pretty difficult to fill, compared to some of the newer removable designs. Especially with the generic MMJ glass syringes without a Luer lock. Still, I do appreciate your companies build quality and material selections, so I'll probably try a couple when I'm done with these other various 510 carts and atomizers I'm testing.
     
  10. THC SCIENTIFIC

    THC SCIENTIFIC To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before Manufacturer

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    I think there was a discussion on one of their posts about this and it was said that the terps are 100% Terps. I have asked Tony to give me an answer and when he does I will post it.




    The carts sometimes do get gunked up and needs to be replaced or the heater just gives out. In testing the only way we could kill a cart is if we did it intentionally, Since i cant claim that because of legal reasons as Murphys Law is great at making appearances we have to talk about conservative numbers.

    Remember any oil with or without terps can be put into the tank as long as it moves at room temp like honey or a little bit thinner. The cleaner the material the longer lasting the cart.

    As for temperatures i will try to explain. The tanks can handle temp control if done right, this means that if you want to vape below 400F you can you just have to control the button, you have to understand that vaping below 400F will leave behind residue and this residue can kill a tank over time. The tanks do come with a 7 day warranty if you have the bubbleman pen and only if the pen has been purchased as well. They both are designed to work together.

    When we talked to bubbleman and his temp settings not sure where he got that number from could be his PID controller but we also took into account the 8 years ( when we started designing this tank ) of experience and research we had when it comes to tanks and temperatures.


    I would like to say we looked after the end user from our first day we have designed a tank that is above and beyond whats out there with better materials.

    All you can do is try one out and see if you like it.


    The kits and tanks are on pre order now on www.w9tech.com
     
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  11. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead trance-form

    Messages:
    1,673
    Right. There is definitely a balance, at too high of a temp you get that tough carbon crust buildup that acts like a riot shield, not allowing oil to get by and wick. I see it all the time when people neglect their dual Ti coils.

    I'm curious to see the price and availability of the Bubbleman Brand syringes here in SoCal.
    What is the mAh on the kits battery?
     
  12. THC SCIENTIFIC

    THC SCIENTIFIC To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before Manufacturer

    Messages:
    7,927
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    It is 600 mah, as for price on the syringe aka applicator not sure as the one they are using we are trying to source now to have available to our clients and inside kits in the future.
     
  13. herbivore21

    herbivore21 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,278
    I am discussing blue river terps exclusively here, since those are what is used with the Bubbleman brand, and are some of the only terps I've yet heard of which are isolated from cannabis plants only (without solvents IIRC too).

    I would want to see terpene test results to ensure that ratios aren't too wild, but so long as you don't have any large spikes of particularly irritating individual terpenes, this would be the safest way to get additional terps into meds.

    Yes, cannabis terpene isolates will typically be clear, runny liquid. It doesn't look unlike water. Smell of course, is not like water :lol:

    Bro, terpentine will dissolve cannabis resin because mineral terpentine is often up to 50% V/V of the various pinenes. Terpentine is a distilled fraction which separates the liquid aromatic part of the pine resin from the remaining pine rosin. This is an earlier use of the term rosin than for cannabis. For the above reasons, terpentine is not necessarily such an unreasonable comparison to dabbing straight terps, however. I do not recommend direct inhalation of straight terpene isolates. We gotta keep the overall level of terps considerably lower than that. Especially if you've got certain terps like pinene and limonene in incredibly high concentrations.

    We do not have cannabis concentrates which contain levels of pinene enantiomers like that, and if we did, I'd also encourage anybody to steer very clear of such products.

    This is what I'm talking about when I say that individual terpenes need to have a dosage ceiling for safety reasons. You don't want more of a potentially irritating terpene than is tolerable.

    No need man, gotcha covered on this question above :)

    Great idea man, please look for a tip which fits between the fixed centre tube in the middle of the tank to minimize spillage. You may even need to settle for a broad gauge luer lock syringe tip for this purpose?

    BTW was bubbleman right when he said you have used SiC in the heater?
     
  14. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    400
    Expect terpenes costing 4X more than concentrate will be used VERY sparingly! What about using one, or a few, chemically pure terpenes?

    MCTs (medium-chain triglycerides) might also be a useful thinner for this new tank.
     
  15. herbivore21

    herbivore21 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,278
    Man we need to be fair to terp extractors. Terpenes will typically make up no more than 20% of the essential oil of a flower at the very highest end of the spectrum of cannabis essential oil extracts. Often, they make up less than 5% of an essential oil extract. By those numbers just in terms of relative yields, we could reasonably expect terpene profiles isolated from cannabis to be 5x-20x more expensive. Given that context, the Blue River prices aren't so unreasonable. They're expensive, but terpenes are a tiny part of cannabis essential oil. We should expect them to cost several times more than the crude essential oils that they come from.

    Vaping MCT is not advisable, high quantities of lipids found in MCT oils are not ideal to be heated and inhaled. You will also need to mix in a hell of a lot of MCT into your meds and apply heat/sonication etc to get the required consistency compared to terpenes; drops of which should be competent to dissolve .3-.4g of rosin/full melt effectively for filling these carts. :2c:
     
  16. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    400
    5% is sparing enough. Hadn't seen Blue River discussed, only products that inspired less confidence. Might have to give them a try.

    Dabbled in MCT oil for e-juice. Dissolved 1 g concentrate in 2.5 ml MCT. Didn't care for it, but seemed like it might be possible to use much less. Wonder what dilutions are used in commercially-available products? Opinion appears divided on inhalation concerns. The study mentioned above in regard to PEG also tested MCT oil. Acetaldehyde, acrolein and formaldehyde levels were in the range of VG. Of course, additional substances of concern could be produced.
     
  17. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead trance-form

    Messages:
    1,673
    Check out Trinity Terpenes, they are cannabis derived and are a good bit more affordable than Blue River, at least they were last time I checked. You can get a 1mL sample pack for $99 which is your choice of 4x .25 mL strain specific terpenes. Here in SoCal the Gen X carts are going around, which is distillate + Trinity Terpenes.
     
  18. psychonaut

    psychonaut High as fuck

    Messages:
    632
    Location:
    CO
    On the topic of terpenes, you should consult with the distributor prior to purchasing regarding packaging. I had recently purchased some terpenes which were packaged poorly (unsecured lids?) and had leakage. At $5 per drop, this is a real issue. I've yet to hear back from the company at this point but it's only been a day. Buyer beware with these expensive commodities!
     
  19. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    400
    Thanks - do you have an email address for Trinity? Both Trinity and Blue River sites are down. Have one of these tanks shipping with no way to use it - bound to be frustrating.
     
  20. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead trance-form

    Messages:
    1,673
    I actually do have an email for Jeana who I was communicating with via hello@terpsonterps.com
    But FYI my buddy @psychonaut just ordered the sample kit from them and had some leaking problems, possibly during shipping, which is no bueno. @psychonaut have they made this right for you yet?
     
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  21. psychonaut

    psychonaut High as fuck

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    632
    Location:
    CO
    Jeana had responded to my email on 8/22 EOD requesting photos of the bottles which I promptly provided. I have not heard back from the company since. I followed up this morning and am awaiting a response. This should be a simple fix, as it's on their side. USPS will not take any claims since the problem was poor internal packing by the shipper, no damage to the box due to the carrier.
     
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  22. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

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    400
    Thanks very much, both!
     
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  23. psychonaut

    psychonaut High as fuck

    Messages:
    632
    Location:
    CO
    Finally received the replacement terpenes today. Not exactly quick resolution time but the product tastes good. The seattle is really strong pineapple. I get a cooling effect from it, not sure if this is normal for all terpenes but it's like menthol except w/o the menthol flavor.
     
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  24. dutz3013

    dutz3013 Member

    Messages:
    16
    Does this apply to the vapor cartridges with bud in it?
     
  25. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead trance-form

    Messages:
    1,673
    Never seen or heard of such a device, do you have a picture?
     

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